I am going to wean myself off competitive games

SilverBride · October 2022

I want to do this because competitive ranked games have become too big a stressor and I want to enjoy playing again.

The first season I worked on learning the game and getting all the decks and clues. But the next season changed everything for me. That is when I reached Rubedite for the first time and now I feel like I have to... every season... but I don't.

I have all the achievements and furnishings and 2 full sets of trophies and that's all I really want. I have a 3rd Rubedite trophy from a season where I didn't receive the others, so I plan to get to Voidsteel next season so I'll have another complete set, then I'm done.

I put myself under tremendous stress and I think I will be a lot happier playing casual games and NPCs in the future.

ziggy29 · October 2022

You do you! I have barely touched ToT. But that is the beauty of a diverse MMO -- there are a lot of different ways to play, and the most important thing is that YOU have fun with it. The last thing we want for a something that is supposed to be fun is for it to cause stress. We get enough of that in the rest of our lives!

boi_anachronism_ · October 2022

I feel this. I was hardcore into raiding. I have completed on every vet trial and was working on HMs. I decided to take a break a few weeks back cause I was getting burned out. I'm glad I did. It was beginning to feel like work more then fun.

Cadbury · October 2022

No MMO or any facet of it is worth getting stressed over. Nothing wrong with just walking away and removing yourself from the equation.

Life's too short for that.

Nestor · October 2022

It is easy to get caught up in the thrill of competition. It part of being human. It is also human to be in control of that which drives you so you can achieve balance. This is something a lot of World Class Athletes have to come to terms with, or they burn themselves out.

It helps to realize, this is a Past Time, and all those Prizes are just Pixels on a Screen. Play the game for fun, and you will win, even if you lose.

SilverBride · October 2022

Thanks to everyone for all the kind words. It helps a lot to know that others understand.

Amottica · October 2022

Play the game. Do not let it play you.

This goes for everything in the game, including events. Even raiding or whatever someone does can be dialed back if it becomes a stressor.

Snowy_Wyndra_Karn · October 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

I want to do this because competitive ranked games have become too big a stressor and I want to enjoy playing again.

The first season I worked on learning the game and getting all the decks and clues. But the next season changed everything for me. That is when I reached Rubedite for the first time and now I feel like I have to... every season... but I don't.

I have all the achievements and furnishings and 2 full sets of trophies and that's all I really want. I have a 3rd Rubedite trophy from a season where I didn't receive the others, so I plan to get to Voidsteel next season so I'll have another complete set, then I'm done.

I put myself under tremendous stress and I think I will be a lot happier playing casual games and NPCs in the future.

I feel exactly the same... and I think others do too.

I have noticed lately that the queue for unranked goes off a lot faster than competitive.

kirgeo · October 2022

Wow, this is crazy. I just started playing competitive (got chapter on sale) to level up and finish the quest started stressing out cause I couldn't move up in voidsteel. Came here looking for strategies, now I'm sticking to NPC.

SilverBride · October 2022

I don't think Ranked would be nearly as stressful if they fixed the scoring so that all wins and losses give or take the same amount of points. The way it is now it's based on something no one has explained and that makes it all the more frustrating.

NeKryXe · October 2022

I think that casual ToT is nice and the competitive ranked ToT should be too, but the system is all wrong. The rank points are all bugged and, for me, the worst thing is that we are always matched with the same players. It's unspeakably hideous. Feels like the whole system was design by a toddler punching keys randomly and this is what we got. Ranked ToT is an absolute mess!

I've been playing Elder Scrolls Legends intensively for 5 years and I was never ever matched with a same player twice in the same day, but in this pathetic system of ToT, every single day I'm matched with the same players over and over and over again. It's absolutely ridiculous. If we get matched with a weaker player, it's an easy party, if we get matched with a stronger player we are doomed.

Since we can be matched with the same player in the same day, the game is not at all competitive, it's just pathetic. In ranked we should NEVER be matched with the same player twice in the same day.

A lot is wrong with the way ranked is build. In fact I don't even believe that the matches are random. I think that they are forcing players to remain matched with the same players many times.

disintegr8 · October 2022

Haven't even touched ToT and don't plan on doing so any time soon. Being 'competitive' is a choice you make, nobody forces you.

I've been playing ESO for 6 years and have never played it competitively. When dueling came out, I couldn't turn auto decline on soon enough. When playing PVP it was only for fun in Cyrodiil, I don't do BG's and have rarely entered IC.

SilverBride · October 2022

disintegr8 wrote: »

Haven't even touched ToT and don't plan on doing so any time soon. Being 'competitive' is a choice you make, nobody forces you.

Of course it's not forced. But there are a lot of problems that others have posted in this and other threads that need addressed.

NeKryXe · October 2022

disintegr8 wrote: »

Haven't even touched ToT and don't plan on doing so any time soon. Being 'competitive' is a choice you make, nobody forces you.

I've been playing ESO for 6 years and have never played it competitively. When dueling came out, I couldn't turn auto decline on soon enough. When playing PVP it was only for fun in Cyrodiil, I don't do BG's and have rarely entered IC.

I like competitive card games. The problem here is not the game or the enjoyment on competition, but the ranking system that is very flawed and not well balanced, so it's frustrating many players. The system can match players from top 10 with with players at the bottom of the leaderboard and it allows players to be continuously matched with the same players. Then the winner gets a few points and the loser loses a lot of points. It's all chaotic instead of dynamic.

The players should always be matched with players close to their level. The players should never be matched with the same player in the same day. Shouldn't ever be deducted more points to the loser than the amount points the winner receives.

The ranked ToT need a lot of fixes to be a good competitive game. For now it's a total mess. Even so, I've been playing it a lot because I enjoy the game and I've been managing to remain frequently on top 100, but I understand perfectly the frustration and I really hate how the rank system was built.

Morimizo · October 2022

Totally empathize, @SilverBride ; while the games against other players can be more interesting than those with NPCs, they are usually longer, more grueling contests, coupled with an infuriatingly opaque ranking system that overpunishes loss and underrewards victory. When the Druid King deck becomes available, I imagine one of the upgrade cards will require flipping its patron ten times in competitive play, so we'll have to suffer through that at least.

I assume ZOS wants other players/guilds to create actual tournaments and more compelling reasons to play each other (reminds me of the laziness of unscripted Reality TV versus shows with professional writers), but it seems to me that they could have devised a more engaging interface for tournaments and prizes than what is available.

SilverBride · October 2022

Morimizo wrote: »

...an infuriatingly opaque ranking system that overpunishes loss and underrewards victory...

This is a huge part of the problem. We have asked multiple times for some insight into how points are rewarded or removed but haven't heard a word yet. Until this changes I will be stopping ranked games after I hit Voidsteel next season (just for the trophy to complete a full set).

It's a shame too because I've made it up to rank 124 and almost made the leaderboard. If I don't make it before this season is over then I just will write it off as a loss because it's not worth going through this stress any more.

SeaGtGruff · October 2022

I played against other players for maybe 2 weeks, although that wasn't every day because I started a few days before reset and an update, and after that the ranked games were unavailable for a bit while they worked out an issue.

My ranking isn't a big deal to me; and as far as the rewards go, it's already painful enough to get the occasional 5 Transmute Crystals from the NPC match rewards, forcing me to go reconstruct something so I can collect all of my rewards and remove the containers from my inventory.

So I'm content to just play against expert NPCs. It's fun, the matches don't usually take very long-- I'm usually in control of how long a match lasts, since the NPCs usually make their moves quickly, whereas I might take my time studying the board-- and there's no 90-second timer threatening to end my turn prematurely if it's taking time for me to study the board and/or process all of my combinations.

The NPCs' AI could stand to be improved a bit, but I imagine it's tricky since you probably wouldn't want an expert NPC to play as well as a highly-ranked player. And even though I nearly always win against the expert NPCs, I've seen players complain in the forums that they always lose to the NPCs, so maybe the AI is already balanced just about right?

Stinkyremy · October 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't think Ranked would be nearly as stressful if they fixed the scoring so that all wins and losses give or take the same amount of points. The way it is now it's based on something no one has explained and that makes it all the more frustrating.

It is an ELO ranking
Here
You get multipliers for win streaks and Subtractions for loss streaks.
Quite common ranking system.
Street fighter V has this ranking system and it is one of the best I have seen in a video game for actually separating skill level of players.

Psilent · October 2022

Stinkyremy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't think Ranked would be nearly as stressful if they fixed the scoring so that all wins and losses give or take the same amount of points. The way it is now it's based on something no one has explained and that makes it all the more frustrating.

It is an ELO ranking
Here
You get multipliers for win streaks and Subtractions for loss streaks.
Quite common ranking system.
Street fighter V has this ranking system and it is one of the best I have seen in a video game for actually separating skill level of players.

I think ToT’s issue is not enough players. So the matchmaking system waits awhile, but if no one close to your ranking is queued it then places you in a match with someone much higher or lower. So instead of getting moderate point losses or gains you get big swings because the system thinks you being rank 110 should win against that rank 305 player. If you lose due to bad card rng it takes 150 points away, while if you win, you gain either 0 or like 1 point.

SilverBride · October 2022

Stinkyremy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't think Ranked would be nearly as stressful if they fixed the scoring so that all wins and losses give or take the same amount of points. The way it is now it's based on something no one has explained and that makes it all the more frustrating.

It is an ELO ranking
Here
You get multipliers for win streaks and Subtractions for loss streaks.
Quite common ranking system.
Street fighter V has this ranking system and it is one of the best I have seen in a video game for actually separating skill level of players.

Has this been confirmed by ZoS? I'd like to hear it from them. And ToT isn't Street Fighter. It's a card game in an MMO.

Can you imagine a poker tournament in Vegas where some players receive a larger percentage of the pot because they won their last hand, and those who lost now have to pay double ante?

Scoring should be based on wins and losses, not unfair advantages and punishments.

Stinkyremy · October 2022

Psilent wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't think Ranked would be nearly as stressful if they fixed the scoring so that all wins and losses give or take the same amount of points. The way it is now it's based on something no one has explained and that makes it all the more frustrating.

It is an ELO ranking
Here
You get multipliers for win streaks and Subtractions for loss streaks.
Quite common ranking system.
Street fighter V has this ranking system and it is one of the best I have seen in a video game for actually separating skill level of players.

I think ToT’s issue is not enough players. So the matchmaking system waits awhile, but if no one close to your ranking is queued it then places you in a match with someone much higher or lower. So instead of getting moderate point losses or gains you get big swings because the system thinks you being rank 110 should win against that rank 305 player. If you lose due to bad card rng it takes 150 points away, while if you win, you gain either 0 or like 1 point.

This is it, people are not seeing each others ranks so the gain and loss of points seems extreme, but it is an ELO system.
Strange that the initial orc-rub ranks were not used in ranking past rubedidte.

Stinkyremy · October 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't think Ranked would be nearly as stressful if they fixed the scoring so that all wins and losses give or take the same amount of points. The way it is now it's based on something no one has explained and that makes it all the more frustrating.

It is an ELO ranking
Here
You get multipliers for win streaks and Subtractions for loss streaks.
Quite common ranking system.
Street fighter V has this ranking system and it is one of the best I have seen in a video game for actually separating skill level of players.

Has this been confirmed by ZoS? I'd like to hear it from them. And ToT isn't Street Fighter. It's a card game in an MMO.

Can you imagine a poker tournament in Vegas where some players receive a larger percentage of the pot because they won their last hand, and those who lost now have to pay double ante?

Scoring should be based on wins and losses, not unfair advantages and punishments.

It doesn't need to be confirmed this is exactly how the ranking works you can see it yourself via the point gain in orc-rub, it is ELO with win/loss streak multiplier.

I was mentioning Street fighters ELO rank system because it is a great example of a great ELO system in a computer game.

So for eg and explanation, you are lowest rank (rookie)
You win one match against another rookie, you gain 15 points.
You win one match against bronze, 50 points
one match against silver 100 points
etc....
You are the highest rank (grandmaster)
You win one match against a grandmaster, you gain15 points
Win one match against a master, 10 points
Win one match against a platinum, 5 points.
etc...

Now rookie loosing to a rookie, you loose 15 points
Rookie loosing to a bronze, loose 10 points
Rookie loosing to a silver,loose 5 points
Grandmaster loosing to a grandmaster loose 15 points
Grandmaster loosing to a master, loose 30 points
Grandmaster loosing to a rookie....Loose 1000 points!

This is ELO ranking!
This is how the ranks rank the good and the bad players by point loss and gain equal to their win and loss of the opponents rank.

Of course in ToT there is no actual matchmaking past the orc-rubedite ranks so a leaderboard rank 1 could play the rank 2000.
If the rank 1 and rank 2000 matchmake and play each other 700 times in a row with win loss ration 700-0 for the rank 2000..
Well now rank 1 is not rank 1 but is rank -537367363476387
And rank 2000 is now rank 20,00000
So how can rank 1 climb and how can rank 2000 ever be knocked off the top spot?

I linked the wiki page for ELO ranking.
Here it is again
It is a common ranking system for this type or PvP game and matchmaking systems.

Your poker analogy made no sense at all!

SilverBride · October 2022

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Your poker analogy made no sense at all!

It makes more sense than whatever system they are using. This is why players are quitting ranked matches.

If I play a couple of games in the evening before logging for the night, I have longer queues and am matched with the same small handful of players. The amount of players in ranked is dwindling fast.

Stinkyremy · October 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Your poker analogy made no sense at all!

It makes more sense than whatever system they are using. This is why players are quitting ranked matches.

If I play a couple of games in the evening before logging for the night, I have longer queues and am matched with the same small handful of players. The amount of players in ranked is dwindling fast.

This happened to me the other day as well, It was late at night/early norming though and it seems at drive time weekdays or shortly after is when the game is most popular which I assume people are doing their dalies in the game for the achievement.
Thing is as I recently found out from another thread, the rewards for the game are weak, 250 max crystals and 100 for being top in the season, and RNG drops of pretty much always trash from the daily and wins, seems little incentive to keep the game populated.

Personally I am gonna try continue climbing for this season to see if I can get on teh leaderboard but after that and my 100 matches for teh achievment I will most likely not play it again at all, well probably will do to grind out the cards they drop next DLC.

Do you know what are the end season rubedite rewards, not top 10% or 2%, just for being rubedite rank at end of season?
If it is worth it and seeing I am rubedite now and would most likely get rubedte quite easy next season just by doing the dalies, it might be worth getting it every season just for the basic rewards.

WitchyKiki · October 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Your poker analogy made no sense at all!

It makes more sense than whatever system they are using. This is why players are quitting ranked matches.

If I play a couple of games in the evening before logging for the night, I have longer queues and am matched with the same small handful of players. The amount of players in ranked is dwindling fast.

Hi Silver! I hardly play on competitive anymore, because the queues are so slow. Theres some pretty good players out on unranked. DW about the leaderboard! The shinnies aren't great. Just enjoy the game

SilverBride · October 2022

WitchyKiki wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Your poker analogy made no sense at all!

It makes more sense than whatever system they are using. This is why players are quitting ranked matches.

If I play a couple of games in the evening before logging for the night, I have longer queues and am matched with the same small handful of players. The amount of players in ranked is dwindling fast.

Hi Silver! I hardly play on competitive anymore, because the queues are so slow. Theres some pretty good players out on unranked. DW about the leaderboard! The shinnies aren't great. Just enjoy the game

Hi, WitchyKiki!

I've been winning more since you played some games with me and gave me some tips, but when I think of struggling back up to Rubedite again, well I just can't. So next season I will stop competitive after I get the Voidsteel trophy and just do Casual from then on, at least until they explain the scoring and/or change it. And yes, there are some very good players in Casual.

SilverBride · November 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

I have a 3rd Rubedite trophy from a season where I didn't receive the others, so I plan to get to Voidsteel next season so I'll have another complete set, then I'm done.

Well I made it today. After hitting rock bottom for a couple of days I had a huge winning streak, earning 210 and 310 with each win and made it to Voidsteel. I now have 3 full sets of trophies to display and I am done with competitive.

I will stick to Casual and NPCs and won't return to competitive until they explain the scoring system and adjust it to be less punative.

CGPsaint · November 2022

I feel you there. I finally hopped into ToT because I wanted to knock out the achievements, and after playing a bunch of NPC matches decided to give competitive a go to see if I could get those achievements too. I did the initial 5 matches and it immediately bumped me up several tiers. Nine ranked matches later, I was 400 points away from finishing the Rubedite tier. Lost the next match and lost a huge chunk of points. Won the next and got back a minuscule portion of the points that I lost. Five games later and it feels like I'll need to win 4-5 matches for every one that I lose in order to just hold my position, much less advance. Gotta say, 100% not a fan of the ranking/match-making system.