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Do you think a single 'Free-form' class instead of the current class system would work better?
BenTSG
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With classes being nerfed, buffed and rearranged on the regular, alongside slimming meta's and identity, do you think changing the classes to a singular 'Free-Form' class that can pick any skill from any of the current class trees would work any better, or worse? It would require a lot of work and most likely a serious overhaul as I could imagine some class skills would be completely broken if used alongside another as is, but it could allow *complete* freedom on how we build our characters, and perhaps end this folly of constantly adjusting builds every few months to follow a meta or fix a now completely broken set-up, assuming it was done correctly too.
While I highly doubt such a system would ever come to be reality, I myself would see it as an upside, and bring a little more of that freedom the mainline games strive for. Perhaps you could go to 'class' trainers to unlock these abilities or something, and level up the class skill lines somehow to be able to unlock an ability? Though I can see this prehaps go against the usual concept of MMO's having classes? I dunno
While I highly doubt such a system would ever come to be reality, I myself would see it as an upside, and bring a little more of that freedom the mainline games strive for. Perhaps you could go to 'class' trainers to unlock these abilities or something, and level up the class skill lines somehow to be able to unlock an ability? Though I can see this prehaps go against the usual concept of MMO's having classes? I dunno
Do you think a single 'Free-form' class instead of the current class system would work better? 141 votes
Yes
22%
32 votes
No
77%
109 votes
0
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Treeshka✭✭✭✭✭
✭Putting all skill lines accessible for one character is not a good idea in terms of balance issues.5 -
TybaltKaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesI think this would work given the nature of the traditional games and their emphasis on building a balanced character. Most ESO players are playing the game as if it is a single player experience anyway (which is a given considering the source material for the game is from a single player source and your established fan base are used to single player games) so I don't see much net loss of player base there.
Obvious balancing issues aside, this would also allow for some truly unique creations as well. A full-on healer with the Restoring Light and Green Balance trees, or a Heal and Harm build with Siphoning and Living Death. A Three Element DPS build with Ardent Flame, Winter's Embrace and Storm Calling, a Heavy Tank with Earthen Heart and Bone Tyrant...I could go on for days.
The obvious problem with this is that it would essentially require an entirely new game, one where progress would obviously not be carried over, but could allow for cosmetic items and all achievements and awards to carry over which would incentivize a switch. Building the exact same game from the ground up with this system in place and getting rid of the spaghetti code would also help with stability issues that come up with each new update or patch, provided a core coding bible was established and maintained so that future dev teams could easily reference it when adjusting things in the future.
Not touching on the role system as that would be completely out of the window, although leaving it in place would result in some fantastic Reddit and Forum rants about "fake {role}" every other week.
Long story short, yeah, I'd be all for it, but there would be some obvious caveats, and adding it to the game as it exists now wouldn't be possible.
EDIT: This is also basically how Fallout 76 works, so it would be fine with multiplayer content given the free form nature of that game. The issue here is people are locked into the preconceived notion of classes and associate it with ESO and with most Medieval Fantasy type MMO's. A paradigm shift would be refreshing and could be an exciting outlier in a world of Everquest clones.Edited by TybaltKaine on November 8, 2022 12:25PM- Tybalt Kaine Khajiit Nightblade Aldmeri Dominion
- PC/NA
- Guildmaster- Lucky Raven
- Knight of Marrow - Blackfeather Academy
- Adepti- The Witches Goblet
- "Nightblade healer huh? How does that work?"
- "I drain the blood of our enemies and fire it into you. It's a lot less messy than it sounds, and yeah I'm basically a Vampire without the whole AGH FIRE BAD"
5 -
Ksariyu✭✭✭✭YesI really would have gone with an "other" option here, but ultimately I do feel the current class system needs to reworked in some major way. Frankly, I'm finding more and more that classes just never fit in with the way the rest of the game was designed. For starters, them being all magic-based makes no sense: Essentially every character is a mage by nature or they don't use their class, in which case what was the point of picking it? They'll also never be able to adequately balance class skills vs. world skills and still retain some level of freedom for the player, for if they make the class skills stronger, then why ever use a weapon skill, and vice versa.
There's also the issue now where classes have no niche. Doesn't matter if you play a Nightblade or a Sorcerer, you're going to use many of the same skills and sets, and you'll be effective with single target, AoE, direct, and DoT damage. No class is really better suited for anything than any other, and no class has a distinct way of approaching combat. Everyone just kind of walks straight forward and drops the same 3-4 skills, then stands there and spams.
At this point, it seems like they might as well dissolve classes and just spread their skills to other/new world trees. Maybe use those skills to provide more impactful morph choices, or create a proper magic tree that doesn't require a staff. Lots of options, they just need to pick one and try it. But I don't think they ever will.0 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the idea of being able to choose between all the skill lines like we could in previous TES games, but I don't think it would help with this specific problem, it would just change what needs to be balanced and why.
I've played games which in one way or another gave all characters access to all the abilities and the multiplayer ones still needed regular balance updates to address problems with certain combinations being unbalanced and players feeling pressured to use it, or discouraged from playing PvP because they didn't want to fight against it. The only time that's not been an issue is when it's a single-player game because then if you invent and use a build that makes things stupidly easy or difficult the only person you're affecting is yourself.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would be worse.
Oh, it would bring more freedom to the questing experience. So if your interest is primarily recapturing the nostalgic feel of the singleplayer TES games, it might do the job.
But ESO is an MMORPG, and it has something the single player TES games lack: an endgame. Its got group content like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
A free-form class would very quickly break down into only the best tank, healer, and DD in PVE endgame content while it would make PVP wildly unbalanced.
Also, the single player games didn't need to balance for overpowered stuff. Todd Howard doesn't care that I broke Skyrim with the fortify restoration loop or that I almost always play a stealth archer because he's already got my money. ESO, meanwhile, needs to keep gameplay fresh so players don't get bored and move on to other games. So the cycle of nerfs, buffs, and adjustments would absolutely continue even if you got your freedom to choose a free-form class.15 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoVaranisArano wrote: »It would be worse.
Oh, it would bring more freedom to the questing experience. So if your interest is primarily recapturing the nostalgic feel of the singleplayer TES games, it might do the job.
But ESO is an MMORPG, and it has something the single player TES games lack: an endgame. Its got group content like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
A free-form class would very quickly break down into only the best tank, healer, and DD in PVE endgame content while it would make PVP wildly unbalanced.
Also, the single player games didn't need to balance for overpowered stuff. Todd Howard doesn't care that I broke Skyrim with the fortify restoration loop or that I almost always play a stealth archer because he's already got my money. ESO, meanwhile, needs to keep gameplay fresh so players don't get bored and move on to other games. So the cycle of nerfs, buffs, and adjustments would absolutely continue even if you got your freedom to choose a free-form class.
All these years of these types of threads and it is amazing to me that people still don't get this.8 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭YesSome classes get heavy nerfs and are bad for years, others are OK and have a lot of unique skills. The same time some classes lose unique skills and get nothing in exchange.
Original classes were killed 2-3 years ago.
Now we have hybridisation.
To prevent one classes be too overperforming due to bad class balance, we have no good unique skills on some classes - it is much better to give option to take any skills you want on races and classes.
Yes it may be one set of skills people use - but it is better than good classes with same skills and bad classes with only bad and broken skills no one plays.
We even have no option to change class on mains !
And classes we take 3-4-5-7 years ago are not like classes we see in game now !
We may be would not even chouse them ! We take classes with one set of skills and effects and now after all ZOS changes we get completly different characters and races !
I would like to play on character I chouse on start, with same working sets, skills and mechanics how game works !
I do not want to play on some thing I DO NOT even chouse !
I think the same for a lot of players including those - who leave the game with all this bad changes for last 2-3 years !Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 8, 2022 2:19PM0 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoVaranisArano wrote: »It would be worse.
Oh, it would bring more freedom to the questing experience. So if your interest is primarily recapturing the nostalgic feel of the singleplayer TES games, it might do the job.
But ESO is an MMORPG, and it has something the single player TES games lack: an endgame. Its got group content like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
A free-form class would very quickly break down into only the best tank, healer, and DD in PVE endgame content while it would make PVP wildly unbalanced.
Also, the single player games didn't need to balance for overpowered stuff. Todd Howard doesn't care that I broke Skyrim with the fortify restoration loop or that I almost always play a stealth archer because he's already got my money. ESO, meanwhile, needs to keep gameplay fresh so players don't get bored and move on to other games. So the cycle of nerfs, buffs, and adjustments would absolutely continue even if you got your freedom to choose a free-form class.
This. You just can't run an MMORPG like your single player games. If you make all the skills available to every character, there will absolutely be one "meta" for each role, and that's all anyone will play. Boring.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....8 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭YesVaranisArano wrote: »It would be worse.
Oh, it would bring more freedom to the questing experience. So if your interest is primarily recapturing the nostalgic feel of the singleplayer TES games, it might do the job.
But ESO is an MMORPG, and it has something the single player TES games lack: an endgame. Its got group content like dungeons, trials, and PVP.
A free-form class would very quickly break down into only the best tank, healer, and DD in PVE endgame content while it would make PVP wildly unbalanced.
Also, the single player games didn't need to balance for overpowered stuff. Todd Howard doesn't care that I broke Skyrim with the fortify restoration loop or that I almost always play a stealth archer because he's already got my money. ESO, meanwhile, needs to keep gameplay fresh so players don't get bored and move on to other games. So the cycle of nerfs, buffs, and adjustments would absolutely continue even if you got your freedom to choose a free-form class.
This. You just can't run an MMORPG like your single player games. If you make all the skills available to every character, there will absolutely be one "meta" for each role, and that's all anyone will play. Boring.
It is much better, than one META class like it is now.
Classes and races already are dead with their reworks and hybridisations.
It is not some thing we chouse when we start play. We do not even have skills on classes we base our chouse on !
So for me it is already another game with different skills I do not even chouse and want to use.
Game was OK like it was before all their changes. Now it is ... some thing I do not even really happy to play a lot.
It becomes much worse than it was 2-3-6 years ago.
But at least - it is more honest.
Because if they delete skills we base our choice when we take main class - at least make all classes the same.
Yes it is not best option, but it is better than now.
The best option is revert all combat / skills / sets / CP change settings on 3 years ago moment.
But I do not think they will do it.
So we already have choise between bad and even worse.
Now it is the worst version for all times for last 7 years )))
If it is harder to make worse than now - even delete classes woud be gould choise. But it is not good in normal situation. But now - it do not even look bad. U35 - makes all changes look exeptable.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 8, 2022 3:11PM0 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoIt seems counterintuitive but with adding that much freedom you will receive even less build freedom and diversity in end game content because there will be an objectively best build for each role that you will be forced to use or not participate. Compare that to now where each class has a target build but still has a class flavor.
I’m a healer main in dungeons and trials and have at least one healer in each class. Each class heals differently with different strengths and weaknesses and “feel” which makes the game experience different when using that class even if for the same role. All of that will be lost if the MMO ESO tries to be a single player TES game by eliminating classes.1 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoIt is way too late for a change like this
If this was the idea to use, it would have needed to be done at the inception if this gamePC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorc streak, nightblade cloak, and DK leap all in the same build.PvP needs more love.2 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭YesPeople who say NO - do not need new skills, because they play on good classes and they understand that they can not get some thing good. So it looks more like they just want their class overperform other classes based on nothing.
Because people who start play their mains 2-3+ years ago do not chouse current skills, sets and game mechanics - it all was changed. So such people play other game on absolutely different classes. The same time some classes do not get to much changes and nerfs.
As example 2+ unique skills of DK was deleted/reworked. (as example wings and moltan armaments)
Whyle sorc or NB do not get some serious changes.
DK/Templar even get animation changes on some of their skills, that they do not like !
I do not see a reason people play on characters they do not chouse ! At least make all the same or return too old game balance and do not change game mechanics and class unique skills and balance.
Game (like it is now) - is nothing even close in combat to game of 2-3 years ago model. Now is much worse game, whyle 2-3 years ago - TESO was one of the best games on market.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 8, 2022 3:32PM0 -
Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No
(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Pets- Roleplay Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Kinras's jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Shocking Soul (Shock damage, Class Mastery Signature Script, and Empower), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Storm Pulsar, Streak, Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Storms, Shocking Burst (Shock Damage, remove 1 negative effect, and interrupt) and Thunderous Rage.
Solo: Use Kinras's chest, replace Mora with Ring of the Pale Order, and use a heavy Slimcraw piece for max critical.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHVjemwxZHI2ZmQ2bTg1ZG0xOTZ3b2QwajBzNGxmaHh6OXRpN3p6YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/eBgWizk5dmZRS/giphy.gifElectric-Heal- Stress free one bar pet build .
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants. No chest piece), 1 medium Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, medium, Max Mag Enchants), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant ring and necklace (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant), Oakensoul ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)
- Ability-Bar: Daedric Prey, Summon Volatile Familiar, Bound Armaments, Unstable Wall of Storms, Summon Twilight Matriarch, and Greater storm Atronach.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Iceheart (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Prismatic Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), Combat Physician restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and combat physician ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable with Prismatic Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Prismtaic Enchants). Knight Slayer (Swift with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Regenerative Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that primarily utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward/Breath of life, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifEye of the Queen- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/44/1c/fd441c8242af6ec35ada94496feb0901.gifEye of the King- My casual one bar heavy attack Arcanist build that primarily utilizes Herald of the Tome abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Pragmatic Fatecarver, Cephaliarch's Flail, Rune of Displacement, Inspired Scholarship/Evolving Runemend, and The Languid Eye.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOTAzdjV1eTgwbDFmM3lrZmxuMXRqdDR3Y3h1ZDRpajR0M3VjZzQ3NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zXmbOaTpbY6mA/giphy.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Race Against Time, Rune of Uncanny Adoration, Evolving Runemend, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Steed for speed. Gotta go fast!
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp/Arcanist: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar/arcanist will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
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Four_Fingers✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoSo instead if there is one uniclass and a popular skill gets nerfed everybody gets nerfed all at once. #logic
There goes that some classes are better argument.
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Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoThey can't even easily balance the current system with its (mostly fixed) parameters, imagine trying to balance picking and choosing skills on characters
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoIt would make it a different game, rather than a better game. For me, it would be a far worse one and that's disregarding the impracticality of making such a core change after all this time just to appease a few who don't like things the way they are.0 -
Freelancer_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The issue with ESO's balance is less the class system and more that the developers focus primarily on making changes for small vocal minorities which tends to generate messes.
You can change the system but as long as they are listening to a small vocal minority it's likely going to be a mess.
If you go to free-form, you'll see a meta quickly develop in high end PvE and PvP. If they like what ends up being meta they will be very vocal about anything that threatens it and if they dislike it they will push to dumpster the skills that are in it. It's pretty likely that the developers will listen to them and within a year or two you'd find many of the abilities you liked and used in the dumpster and that the meta at the top is a bunch of buggy junk that is even more miserable to PvP against and creates even more ridiculous expectations for PvE content.
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SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭YesIt is already different game. A lot of players start to play in much better game 2+ years ago. All was changed :
Class skills, class skills animation
Game mechanics
Even race passives !
CP was changed, sets were changed.
And a lot more.
Hybridisation !
Would you even start play TESO if it was like it is now ?
I do not think so, 15% of gamers left game even having their favorite characters here - they spend a lot of time on !
So it is not even argument about changes or another game.
Why was not any one protect the game like it was 3 years ago as example ? Why not you ask for return to old combat model ?
If game would be reverted to 3 years ago state and newer be changed a lot in combat and balance part - OK.
But it is new game each patch.0 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoI came from an MMO that had that as an option, despite the thousands of possible mixtures of skills passives and stats the game ended up looking like
1 tank build
1 off-tank build
1 healer build
1 dps build
99,996 builds ignored3 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭YesI came from an MMO that had that as an option, despite the thousands of possible mixtures of skills passives and stats the game ended up looking like
1 tank build
1 off-tank build
1 healer build
1 dps build
99,996 builds ignored
We have the same META tank/DD/Heal builds too here too.
You are the same limited here with META sets, race and class on roles.
Do you as example see a lot of DK healers ? )
With same skills and only 1 class you really will have more options than you have now.
At least you can play anything you want effective on same class. Now you need to do most effective ALT, that is even worse.
You have a lot of sets and options - but they are not playable.
Balance in TESO is really pure.
The same time builds that are interesting to play and are not META get nerfs ! But META does not get nerfs !
That is a problem. Weak builds get nerfs, when OP builds do not get any real nerfs, thats why META is only option you have.
Developers nerf all other sets and options - now you do not really have any other choise.
The same time even with such limitations - classes are not well balanced here, that looks strange even in compare to first MMO games where with 20+ classes it was good balance in 2003+ years as example.
Here with 6 classes in 2022 year - no balance.
Yes you have 200+ sets, but it is just an illusion, because only small part of them are really playable.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 8, 2022 4:21PM0 -
Cazador✭✭✭✭✭NoI came from an MMO that had that as an option, despite the thousands of possible mixtures of skills passives and stats the game ended up looking like
1 tank build
1 off-tank build
1 healer build
1 dps build
99,996 builds ignored
Exactly this. Even though eso does have its meta builds you have a choice between magicka and stamina so you have at least 2 per class, at least for pve dps. Having things divided into classes ironically gives you more choice in how you play since every class has its own separate meta(s) and any of them are strong enough for any content.0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭YesI came from an MMO that had that as an option, despite the thousands of possible mixtures of skills passives and stats the game ended up looking like
1 tank build
1 off-tank build
1 healer build
1 dps build
99,996 builds ignored
Exactly this. Even though eso does have its meta builds you have a choice between magicka and stamina so you have at least 2 per class, at least for pve dps. Having things divided into classes ironically gives you more choice in how you play since every class has its own separate meta(s) and any of them are strong enough for any content.
Hybridization ... . All are hybrids now
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Cazador✭✭✭✭✭NoSPR_of_HA_community wrote: »I came from an MMO that had that as an option, despite the thousands of possible mixtures of skills passives and stats the game ended up looking like
1 tank build
1 off-tank build
1 healer build
1 dps build
99,996 builds ignored
Exactly this. Even though eso does have its meta builds you have a choice between magicka and stamina so you have at least 2 per class, at least for pve dps. Having things divided into classes ironically gives you more choice in how you play since every class has its own separate meta(s) and any of them are strong enough for any content.
Hybridization ... . All are hybrids now
If you look online at any builds you'll see separate builds for magicka and stamina. They generally use seperate gear (though not always) and different abilities. Besides, as far back as 2019 I recall using magicka abilities on stamina characters and vise versa. There already was hybridization prior to its official adoption.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoSPR_of_HA_community wrote: »It is already different game. A lot of players start to play in much better game 2+ years ago. All was changed :
Class skills, class skills animation
Game mechanics
Even race passives !
CP was changed, sets were changed.
And a lot more.
Hybridisation !
Would you even start play TESO if it was like it is now ?
I do not think so, 15% of gamers left game even having their favorite characters here - they spend a lot of time on !
So it is not even argument about changes or another game.
Why was not any one protect the game like it was 3 years ago as example ? Why not you ask for return to old combat model ?
If game would be reverted to 3 years ago state and newer be changed a lot in combat and balance part - OK.
But it is new game each patch.
I for one am playing the game exactly the same way I played it at launch other than having to have adapted to the achievement changes. I don't agree that it's a different game from a couple of years ago. Some aspects have changed for sure, but not the overall game. Most of the doomsday changes pass people by unless they happen to be part of the small minority of ultra-competitive players, and catering purely for them by making an even bigger change when it's the process of change that they're complaining about would be absurd.Edited by Tandor on November 8, 2022 4:39PM0 -
AnduinTryggva✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really would have gone with an "other" option here, but ultimately I do feel the current class system needs to reworked in some major way. Frankly, I'm finding more and more that classes just never fit in with the way the rest of the game was designed. For starters, them being all magic-based makes no sense: Essentially every character is a mage by nature or they don't use their class, in which case what was the point of picking it? They'll also never be able to adequately balance class skills vs. world skills and still retain some level of freedom for the player, for if they make the class skills stronger, then why ever use a weapon skill, and vice versa.
There's also the issue now where classes have no niche. Doesn't matter if you play a Nightblade or a Sorcerer, you're going to use many of the same skills and sets, and you'll be effective with single target, AoE, direct, and DoT damage. No class is really better suited for anything than any other, and no class has a distinct way of approaching combat. Everyone just kind of walks straight forward and drops the same 3-4 skills, then stands there and spams.
At this point, it seems like they might as well dissolve classes and just spread their skills to other/new world trees. Maybe use those skills to provide more impactful morph choices, or create a proper magic tree that doesn't require a staff. Lots of options, they just need to pick one and try it. But I don't think they ever will.
Actually I think you have a point here. There are of course class skills that can be turned into stamina skills but basically as a stamina player you will put more into weapon or other skills and less into class skills whereas as a magicka splayer there is a bit more freedom here.
I don't think we should have a free class because of the meta issue cited above. But a thorough rework would be great to make you really play a class more than just drafting some skills from it to fit into your choice between stamina or magicka.0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭YesSome classes already need rework, as example DK. What unique left on this class ?
Big portion of unique skills were removed.
Wings / moltan armoments - are doomed.
Can not jump on walls in Cyro with leaps.
Nothing was given in exchange.
The same time other classes get unique to DK pool ability's.
But it is much better remove classes or return to old balance.
Because it will remove chance that one class will be much better than another.
And balancing in TESO looks more like dice throwing to the wall.
Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 8, 2022 4:58PM0 -
alternatelder✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoSPR_of_HA_community wrote: »Some classes already need rework, as example DK. What unique left on this class ?
Big portion of unique skills were removed.
What?? You can't be serious...?
Edited by alternatelder on November 8, 2022 5:25PM0
