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Staff Heavy Attack Animations - A question of choice

Firey_Hellhound
Firey_Hellhound
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I would like to talk about Heavy Attack Animations for Staves.

Let’s start at the beginning and light attacks. These are all substantially the same, single click and a pulse from the relevant staff is produced. Fine, we are told a Heavy Attack is done by holding down the same key, but we soon find out that there is a marked difference between the effects and the various 4 staves. I know and fully understand the damage differences so that is a non issue here, this is purely about the animation only

An Inferno/Flame staff and Frost/Ice staff both take time to charge up and unleash their elemental attack animation.

A Lightning/Shock staff and a Restoration staff both produce a connection to the target for the duration, and further, if we look behind the scenes we see that they are made up of two parts, a small channelled attack that hits at around .8/.9 of the first second and the final non channelled burst at around 1.8 seconds. Note: The first part is buffed by the Deadly Strike set which demonstrates it is counted as channelled whereas the final hit is not.

I would like to suggest that for all 4 staves this choice of a different attack animation style is given to all players (introduced say during the tutorial) so that they may choose either to charge up and unleash a heavy attack or the connected channelled version which would apply to each staff type. So a Flame staff would produce either the current two fireballs or a connected flame thrower with little embers or sparks effect to the target that hits as a channelled attack. Same for an Ice staff, except the connected channel would be frosty in nature with small ice shards/snowflake effect.

Similarly the Restoration staff could charge up and unleash a single golden bolt at a target and cause say a red flash on impact. A Lightning staff would charge up a ball of lightning on the end of the staff which is then unleashed as a single ball at the target exploding in a shock discharge effect.

The timing and damage overall would remain exactly the same but be calculated as the current versions are now. I.e. A single un-channelled hit as a single burst damage at the end of the attack or if channelled in two parts the first small channelled amount at .8/.9 seconds and the final amount at the end.

Technically this means the introduction of 4 new attacks and associated animations which may produce some issues for ZoS to get around and the management of that in group content perhaps, but, if it is set at account level that should alleviate pressures rather than at character level or even by staff type although this might be preferable to players!

So if this choice were implemented would you choose to use a flame thrower or ball lightning effect for example?
  • fizzylu
    fizzylu
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    I mean, the games animations in general are pretty uh.... lacking, I'll say.... but for some reason I don't feel like there should be animation options on basic damage abilities, especially if those animation options dictate how the damage is delivered. I think that would mess with balancing even more.
    Some of these ideas do sound neat though. I think they should overhaul/rework staffs completely since they ran them into the ground the past year or so. I'd really like to see each element actually get their own entire skill line instead of some slight ability/passive changes shoved into one and maybe an alternate healing staff (nature based or something) since I kind of hate the current restoration staff VFX a lot. Your golden bolt idea sounds nice though, I'd def choose for the game to have that if it was possible instead of the current beam stream thing. Would also be nice to see some flame thrower type ability on fire staffs haha New World has an ability like that for their fire staffs and it always gets a little laugh out of me when I see someone use it.
  • Freelancer_ESO
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    I think you might ram into the issue that the effectiveness gap between the choices might be large enough that it wouldn't be much of a choice for players that heavy attack very much due to peer pressure/perceived peer pressure from other players.

  • Dragonlord573
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    Always in favor of getting new animations.
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    i much more prefer the "channeled" heavy attack of lightning and resto staves, it just feels smoother and easier to use than the fire and ice staves heavies
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (fully filled out with current game), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    in progress: acquiring mundus stones (currently only have the thief)

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • Firey_Hellhound
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    Thanks for the feedback, the choice to use a channelled Ice or Fire staff would be a nice addition I think - and cannot break the game only add something to it for those player that wish to use it, imho. I do hope ZoS see this and consider it!
  • SPR_of_HA_community
    SPR_of_HA_community
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    Whyle damage on lightning staff is not worse - than on other weapons and animation looks and feels good it is OK for me.

    Now lightning staffs are overnerfed - U35 was really bad patch.

    Lightning staffs need huge buff.

    If they nerf option of HA normally work in PVP - than it needs buff to be on pare with META builds in PVE.

    We do not need useless sets in this game. The same I do not need PVE only sets. It is bad game change.
    But it is much better to return like it was before - for last 2-3 years game becomes much worse in combat part, but I do not think they revert any of their bad changes.

    From the best game on market it becomes the game people do not want to play !

    We can clearly see it on how much players leave after U35 and for last 2-3 years.

    Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 8, 2022 2:59PM
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    Whyle damage on lightning staff is not worse - than on other weapons and animation looks and feels good it is OK for me.

    Now lightning staffs are overnerfed - U35 was really bad patch.

    Lightning staffs need huge buff.

    If they nerf option of HA normally work in PVP - than it needs buff to be on pare with META builds in PVE.

    We do not need useless sets in this game. The same I do not need PVE only sets. It is bad game change.
    But it is much better to return like it was before - for last 2-3 years game becomes much worse in combat part, but I do not think they revert any of their bad changes.

    From the best game on market it becomes the game people do not want to play !

    We can clearly see it on how much players leave after U35 and for last 2-3 years.

    if lightning staffs were overnerfed, how are people able to get 80-100k dps single target builds with lightning staff?

    if i had to say from what ive seen that while they arent meta, they are 100% able to compete and play with the higher tier content (as you only need about 80k dps to do basically any content in the game)

    if anything they make the game now easy mode even stuff like getting trifecta in vateshran arena lol
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (fully filled out with current game), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    in progress: acquiring mundus stones (currently only have the thief)

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    You say its just animation, but its not just animation. You are talking about changing fundamental game mechanics. I like that the different staff types offer the players choices, with pros and cons to each.

    As you said, they behave differently and for good reason. Want burst damage, use fire. Want a channel, use lighting. Situationally, each can be better than the other. It also fits well thematically with the damage bonus. A bursty heavy attack gives single target, a channeled heavy attack can spread to other enemies for better AOE.

    Honestly, I am sick and tired of ZOS messing with fundamental game mechanics that have been around for ever.

    HARD PASS from me.
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    i much more prefer the "channeled" heavy attack of lightning and resto staves, it just feels smoother and easier to use than the fire and ice staves heavies

    I think its situational, in trash packs, sure. I like they way the channel works both from a practical standpoint and the bonus damage. In PVP, I want to be able to charge a bursty attack on a single player. On bosses, I also want to be able to charge a bursty attack for opening the fight. I also generally like a fire staff for regenning magic. Channels get broken with movement and LOS. As long as I have my cursor on the bad guy when my heavy Fire attack goes off, I know I am going to get the resources back.

    Fire staffs work better on bosses and PVP, and lighting staffs work better on AOE, both functionally and with their damage bonuses. I see no reason to mess with it.

    From a light attack weaving standpoint, it makes no difference.
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    i much more prefer the "channeled" heavy attack of lightning and resto staves, it just feels smoother and easier to use than the fire and ice staves heavies

    I think its situational, in trash packs, sure. I like they way the channel works both from a practical standpoint and the bonus damage. In PVP, I want to be able to charge a bursty attack on a single player. On bosses, I also want to be able to charge a bursty attack for opening the fight. I also generally like a fire staff for regenning magic. Channels get broken with movement and LOS. As long as I have my cursor on the bad guy when my heavy Fire attack goes off, I know I am going to get the resources back.

    Fire staffs work better on bosses and PVP, and lighting staffs work better on AOE, both functionally and with their damage bonuses. I see no reason to mess with it.

    From a light attack weaving standpoint, it makes no difference.

    i think my problem with fire and ice heavies is if your far from your target, those have a significant projectile travel time, where the dmg from lightning/resto hits almost "instantly" because of it being a channel
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (fully filled out with current game), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    in progress: acquiring mundus stones (currently only have the thief)

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • boi_anachronism_
    boi_anachronism_
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    Whyle damage on lightning staff is not worse - than on other weapons and animation looks and feels good it is OK for me.

    Now lightning staffs are overnerfed - U35 was really bad patch.

    Lightning staffs need huge buff.

    If they nerf option of HA normally work in PVP - than it needs buff to be on pare with META builds in PVE.

    We do not need useless sets in this game. The same I do not need PVE only sets. It is bad game change.
    But it is much better to return like it was before - for last 2-3 years game becomes much worse in combat part, but I do not think they revert any of their bad changes.

    From the best game on market it becomes the game people do not want to play !

    We can clearly see it on how much players leave after U35 and for last 2-3 years.

    if lightning staffs were overnerfed, how are people able to get 80-100k dps single target builds with lightning staff?

    if i had to say from what ive seen that while they arent meta, they are 100% able to compete and play with the higher tier content (as you only need about 80k dps to do basically any content in the game)

    if anything they make the game now easy mode even stuff like getting trifecta in vateshran arena lol

    Don't bother. Homie has been on about the same exact thing for weeks. Lost count of the threads at this point. Won't really listen to supported points when brought up either.
  • SPR_of_HA_community
    SPR_of_HA_community
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    Whyle damage on lightning staff is not worse - than on other weapons and animation looks and feels good it is OK for me.

    Now lightning staffs are overnerfed - U35 was really bad patch.

    Lightning staffs need huge buff.

    If they nerf option of HA normally work in PVP - than it needs buff to be on pare with META builds in PVE.

    We do not need useless sets in this game. The same I do not need PVE only sets. It is bad game change.
    But it is much better to return like it was before - for last 2-3 years game becomes much worse in combat part, but I do not think they revert any of their bad changes.

    From the best game on market it becomes the game people do not want to play !

    We can clearly see it on how much players leave after U35 and for last 2-3 years.

    if lightning staffs were overnerfed, how are people able to get 80-100k dps single target builds with lightning staff?

    if i had to say from what ive seen that while they arent meta, they are 100% able to compete and play with the higher tier content (as you only need about 80k dps to do basically any content in the game)

    if anything they make the game now easy mode even stuff like getting trifecta in vateshran arena lol

    Damage with lightning staffs was about 100k before U35, with buff of dummy for more DPS - now dummy gets 20-25% more DPS - you can see the same 100k DPS to that dummy. That is about 80k DPS before U35.

    Players who played HA builds do solo dunguans on HMs before, played even vet dunguans naked and the same pass Souls like games naked.

    So I do not see a point about vateshran trifectas problem I pass it the same days on trifecta when it just appears in game.

    80K DPS is not big damage. Now you can easely do it in any build. You even can find 110k DPS videos on 1 panel with 2 buttons on LA in youtube about it.

    The same time META builds on LA can do about 120-130k, whyle HA builds only about 100k.

    HA builds lose PVP option, difference in damage of LA and HA builds are the same or even more than before U35.

    With lose of PVP option - and only PVE skills and sets - such damage is really small and needs serious buff.

    In PVP - HA builds had bad survivability and high damage. Now we have no damage and bad survivability the same, because your healing is based on attack stats - that HA sets do not give. Now they do not give you even damage and a lot of skills and sets do not even work on players.

    That is a shame !

    Because such option was in game from start ! And ZOS nerf not most powerful PVP builds, they nerf builds mid tier, whyle top PVP builds was not even nerfed !
    Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 9, 2022 7:40AM
  • boi_anachronism_
    boi_anachronism_
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    Lightning staff... Is not... Designed... For pvp. It's designed for single target weapons.
  • Firey_Hellhound
    Firey_Hellhound
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    SPR_of_HA_community clearly demonstrates that they missed the point of my thread, and, it would appear still do not understand the point being made. That aside, I would still like to bring it back to a player choice of animation style for all Staves. That is all.
  • Heartrage
    Heartrage
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    Don’t the channeled heavy attacks scale better with some sets than the one attack ones and vice versa? I mean, if they can make the different heavy attacks and staves be about as good for both heavy attack builds users and other builds I wouldn’t mind…
  • Firey_Hellhound
    Firey_Hellhound
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    If you mean sets like Deadly Strike which buffs only the channelled portion and on a Shock staff it's the initial tick only which is channelled (on a plain shock staff when I last checked was 25% of the total damage done) and so is effectively only a small boost of 3.75% (25%*15%).

    That depends on exactly how hard you can make a fully charged heavy attack hit for of course!
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