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Isobel Veloise, Werewolves and Hircine
Moonblade
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I am a returning player. I created a new character (Redguard Nightblade within the Dagerfall Covenant) and after playing High Isle I got Isobel and Ember as companions.
I really like playing with Isobel (as Tank now, Healer in the future), she complements my chosen playstyle really well. I also like her a lot as a character, I find her reactions cute and hilarious.
Anyway, early on she told my character that she hates Daedra, and Lorewise that puts me in a bind since I want my character to become a Werewolf eventually (no rush). I've seen some references establishing that gameplay wise is possible, but I would expect, given her distaste of Daedra that my character accepting the "Gift of Hircine" will put me at odds and would make me lose some rapport with her in game.
I would presume that most Werewolves players got her after getting the trait line (advanced player) but not sure if new players getting the Werewolf trait line anew (and doing the corresponding quest, maybe with her as a companion) experienced a hit in her rapport.
I really like playing with Isobel (as Tank now, Healer in the future), she complements my chosen playstyle really well. I also like her a lot as a character, I find her reactions cute and hilarious.
Anyway, early on she told my character that she hates Daedra, and Lorewise that puts me in a bind since I want my character to become a Werewolf eventually (no rush). I've seen some references establishing that gameplay wise is possible, but I would expect, given her distaste of Daedra that my character accepting the "Gift of Hircine" will put me at odds and would make me lose some rapport with her in game.
I would presume that most Werewolves players got her after getting the trait line (advanced player) but not sure if new players getting the Werewolf trait line anew (and doing the corresponding quest, maybe with her as a companion) experienced a hit in her rapport.
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SammyKhajit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Two of Sammy’s characters are the furry sort and Isobel never frowned once, not even during and after transformations.10 -
whitecrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Neither she nor Ember care if you are a werewolf, despite Ember's hatred of wolves.6 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!), despite being described as moral and extremely strict about following the law. Some odd characterisation there.
So no, she's not going to react at all that you're a werewolf.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!3 -
Toanis✭✭✭✭✭Mechanically it won't make a difference.
Roleplaying wise, she might still like you despite your "flaws" and become a bit more openminded? Also, Hircine is one of the most commonly and openly revered Daedric Lords. No matter whether you're hunter or prey, if you're out there in the wilds Hircine is someone you may call upon. It's not like he's an Aedra that encourages canibalism over hurting plants.
Edited by Toanis on November 1, 2022 7:33AM4 -
SammyKhajit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Or as Druid Laurel said, “Y’ffre makes no mistake” in the creatures that they make, and Isobel has heeded to this wisdom
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Grizzbeorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!)
But your rapport with her will take a hit if you use the Blade of Woe in her presence.0 -
Kitziboo✭✭✭I was wondering the same thing. My Nord was bitten last week and as he was running round after the quest trying to work out how to increase the skill line, I noticed she had disappeared and thought perhaps she had disapproved. She has good rapport with him so it was a little puzzling that she has vanished twice since then. She didn’t seem to like the goat killing which didn’t budge the skill line at all but was a little happier killing spiders which was more successful.
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DreadGrrlSoul ShrivenNotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!), despite being described as moral and extremely strict about following the law. Some odd characterisation there.
So no, she's not going to react at all that you're a werewolf.
She does react to Xivkyn polymorphs. It doesn't affect rapport, but there is some dialogue.0 -
estelrandir✭✭✭Isobel is getting a crash course in the real world -- where we can't always wear shiny platemail and act with knightly honor. Sometimes we have to sneak around, put a dagger through someone's kidneys, disguise ourselves as evil creatures with glamor spells, and help out the odd daedric lord. Welcome to the real world, kid. It's not all so black and white
hopeful.heart on PC-NA/EU
"'Never love a wild thing, Mr. Bell,' Holly advised him. 'That was Doc's mistake. He was always lugging home wild things. [...] You can't give your heart to a wild thing: the more you do, the stronger they'll get. Until they're strong enough to run into the woods. Or fly into a tree. Then a taller tree. Then the sky. That's how you'll end up, Mr. Bell. If you let yourself love a wild thing. You'll end up looking at the sky.'" -- Truman Capote, Breakfast at Tiffany's.0 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grizzbeorn wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!)
But your rapport with her will take a hit if you use the Blade of Woe in her presence.
Yeah, but she says if you do it so she doesn't see (as in not having her active) she's fine with it. Which to me does not fit her supposed honourable and lawful knight characterisation.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!1 -
whitecrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Grizzbeorn wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!)
But your rapport with her will take a hit if you use the Blade of Woe in her presence.
It never did for me.
Are you thinking of Mirri?0 -
kind_hero✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, they wanted to make a knight/paladin type of companion, then realized this companion has to please a large base of players, so many things you do around Isobel don't bother her.
People want to tick as many boxes as possible, thus you have companions that seem to be out of character, and the same people complain
I like Isobel, but if my char were a thief/assassin or beastly ww, I would have a different companion. I am not sure why they didn't create a Nord warrior or some Reach clansman that loved violence as companion.
P.S. Isobel likes when you:
- do the High Isle world boss daily
- repair your armor
- kill a world boss (there is some cooldown)
- cook something sweet
- visit the Undaunted enclave (once a day)
- talk to one of the 3 alliance leaders
- talk to Lyriss Titanborn
dislikes:
- visiting the thieves refugee/DB
- breaking the law
(could be more, I'm not sure)
[PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter0 -
Treselegant✭✭✭✭✭
✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Grizzbeorn wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!)
But your rapport with her will take a hit if you use the Blade of Woe in her presence.
Yeah, but she says if you do it so she doesn't see (as in not having her active) she's fine with it. Which to me does not fit her supposed honourable and lawful knight characterisation.
It is such bad charactersation. It really screams "we did this because players complained about our last moral character and we don't want anyone to complain about our lovely celebrity voiced companion so er, she's totally fine with you being a murderer...please don't complain... ".
So we ended up with this character who's very morally upright, unwilling to break any rules even when someone she cares for is at risk, but somehow totally fine being besties with a Sithis worshiping murderer. She addresses the player being a vampire as well and somehow I can not see a Knight of Stendarr being 'oh well, just don't feed infront of me'. Like the Brotherhood thing, it's just not really needed, and it's not consistent with the way she otherwise conducts herself.3 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Treselegant wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Grizzbeorn wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!)
But your rapport with her will take a hit if you use the Blade of Woe in her presence.
Yeah, but she says if you do it so she doesn't see (as in not having her active) she's fine with it. Which to me does not fit her supposed honourable and lawful knight characterisation.
It is such bad charactersation. It really screams "we did this because players complained about our last moral character and we don't want anyone to complain about our lovely celebrity voiced companion so er, she's totally fine with you being a murderer...please don't complain... ".
So we ended up with this character who's very morally upright, unwilling to break any rules even when someone she cares for is at risk, but somehow totally fine being besties with a Sithis worshiping murderer. She addresses the player being a vampire as well and somehow I can not see a Knight of Stendarr being 'oh well, just don't feed infront of me'. Like the Brotherhood thing, it's just not really needed, and it's not consistent with the way she otherwise conducts herself.
Aye. Not to mention how awful the writing is and how disrespectful it is to players roleplaying when Isobel will just know you're a member of the Dark Brotherhood and comments about it. There's no option for us to choose to tell her, she will just know.
Ember also got some of these issues but a bit less extreme.
Both High Isle companions feels very disjointed from not only their described character, but also between how they appear in their quests and idle commentary. There's also quite a lot of telling over showing with both.Edited by NotaDaedraWorshipper on November 1, 2022 9:23PM[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!2 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grizzbeorn wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!)
But your rapport with her will take a hit if you use the Blade of Woe in her presence.
It never did for me.
Are you thinking of Mirri?
the only companion that does not lose rapport for killing innocents is ember lol
you can blade of woe a hostile NPC, and none of the companions will care about that, its more related to killing like civilians0 -
whitecrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »Grizzbeorn wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!)
But your rapport with her will take a hit if you use the Blade of Woe in her presence.
It never did for me.
Are you thinking of Mirri?
the only companion that does not lose rapport for killing innocents is ember lol
you can blade of woe a hostile NPC, and none of the companions will care about that, its more related to killing like civilians
Ah, civilians, sure. I was talking about hostiles.
Mirri and Bastian actually do not like the Blade of Woe at all.0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »Grizzbeorn wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!)
But your rapport with her will take a hit if you use the Blade of Woe in her presence.
It never did for me.
Are you thinking of Mirri?
the only companion that does not lose rapport for killing innocents is ember lol
you can blade of woe a hostile NPC, and none of the companions will care about that, its more related to killing like civilians
Ah, civilians, sure. I was talking about hostiles.
Mirri and Bastian actually do not like the Blade of Woe at all.
well i could see it with mirri because she explicitly hates the dark brotherhood (you even lose rapport with her for visiting them)
i dont remember if bastion loses rapport for visiting the dark brotherhood sanctuary, although i dont think he does, so im not sure why he would care if you blade of woe a hostile
maybe i should put the houseguest mirri in the erstwhile sanctuary house and see how she likes it
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cyclonus11✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My experience is that Mirri does not care at all if you kill innocents, she just hates the Blade of Woe (even if you use it on bad guys).0 -
Treselegant✭✭✭✭✭
✭Necrotech_Master wrote: »Grizzbeorn wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!)
But your rapport with her will take a hit if you use the Blade of Woe in her presence.
It never did for me.
Are you thinking of Mirri?
the only companion that does not lose rapport for killing innocents is ember lol
you can blade of woe a hostile NPC, and none of the companions will care about that, its more related to killing like civilians
Ah, civilians, sure. I was talking about hostiles.
Mirri and Bastian actually do not like the Blade of Woe at all.
Bastian actually doesn't mind you using the blade on hostile targets. When you use it on innocents, it's the murder that he reacts to rather than the blade itself. Mirri hates the Blade of Woe being used in any situation. This is probably one of those cases where Bastian's reactions are unfinished - he has dialogue saying how much he hates assassin guilds so he probably should have something to say. Though it could be a case where he doesn't really care as long as the blade is used on 'legitimate' targets.1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Treselegant wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Grizzbeorn wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!)
But your rapport with her will take a hit if you use the Blade of Woe in her presence.
Yeah, but she says if you do it so she doesn't see (as in not having her active) she's fine with it. Which to me does not fit her supposed honourable and lawful knight characterisation.
It is such bad charactersation. It really screams "we did this because players complained about our last moral character and we don't want anyone to complain about our lovely celebrity voiced companion so er, she's totally fine with you being a murderer...please don't complain... ".
So we ended up with this character who's very morally upright, unwilling to break any rules even when someone she cares for is at risk, but somehow totally fine being besties with a Sithis worshiping murderer. She addresses the player being a vampire as well and somehow I can not see a Knight of Stendarr being 'oh well, just don't feed infront of me'. Like the Brotherhood thing, it's just not really needed, and it's not consistent with the way she otherwise conducts herself.
Yeah. This is why I find her sanctimonious and position obsessed as opposed to moral, like Bastian. They lose rapport on pretty similar things, but Bastian tells you off and tries to convince you not to do those things at all. He's shown as truly bothered by it. Isobel is just like "well don't do it in front me because you're making it difficult for my knighthood." That piece of dialogue makes me feel like she cares about acting the way a knight is supposed to act, rather than caring about the moral implications of things.Edited by spartaxoxo on November 1, 2022 11:21PM3 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You won't lose rapport but you could role play it as if you were turned by accident and had no choice but to go through with it, and then use the WW strength to become a better adventurer.0 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Treselegant wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Grizzbeorn wrote: »NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »Isobel is fine with you being a member of a infamous murdering death cult (and even says so in actual dialogue!)
But your rapport with her will take a hit if you use the Blade of Woe in her presence.
Yeah, but she says if you do it so she doesn't see (as in not having her active) she's fine with it. Which to me does not fit her supposed honourable and lawful knight characterisation.
It is such bad charactersation. It really screams "we did this because players complained about our last moral character and we don't want anyone to complain about our lovely celebrity voiced companion so er, she's totally fine with you being a murderer...please don't complain... ".
So we ended up with this character who's very morally upright, unwilling to break any rules even when someone she cares for is at risk, but somehow totally fine being besties with a Sithis worshiping murderer. She addresses the player being a vampire as well and somehow I can not see a Knight of Stendarr being 'oh well, just don't feed infront of me'. Like the Brotherhood thing, it's just not really needed, and it's not consistent with the way she otherwise conducts herself.
Yeah. This is why I find her sanctimonious and position obsessed as opposed to moral, like Bastian. They lose rapport on pretty similar things, but Bastian tells you off and tries to convince you not to do those things at all. He's shown as truly bothered by it. Isobel is just like "well don't do it in front me because you're making it difficult for my knighthood." That piece of dialogue makes me feel like she cares about acting the way a knight is supposed to act, rather than caring about the moral implications of things.
That's how I saw it too. I even described it to @Treselegant some days ago how she and Bastian feels very different despite both being put as the morally good companions. Bastian appear as a genuinely good and kind person, so he disapproves of you commiting crimes such as theft and murder because it's wrong and awful things to do to others. Isobel seems extremely strict on following the law with little care that it's right or wrong. She simply disapproves because you broke the law, making things inconvinient for her and might ruin her chances of knighthood.
Which of course makes her feel more selfish and less good than what they likely had in mind.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!3 -
ZazikelsShadow✭✭✭I've found that a good rule of thumb when it comes to if you aren't sure whether or not a companion will be upset by something you do, is to just dismiss them for a bit or switch to one that won't mind. I do have a few issues of my own with current companions feeling a bit off, Including the things mentioned above. I didn't realize some of the things said about Isobel because I haven't really used her very much yet. Bastian and Mirri have things about them that are irritating but at least they are consistent. That is a good and bad thing depending on how you look at it.0 -
SammyKhajit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This one tried feeding on an enemy and Isobel didn’t drop rapport. She simply said please fight the urge in you and you’re better than this.
Laura Bailey Isobel sounded so sad and disappointed, the Nord vampire felt so bad, she nearly wayshrined to Wayrest to get a cure
Isobel is NOT selfish like what some posters have suggested. She has the vestige’s best interest in her knightly heart 💜 Sammy will duel anyone with a bunch of tulips if they disagree 😾Edited by SammyKhajit on November 2, 2022 3:30PM0