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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
So how is the code re-architecture going?
gariondavey
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PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
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ZOS_KevinCommunity ManagerHey @gariondavey. I did answer this in another thread a few weeks ago, but I'll answer here as well. We don't have any updates to share at the moment regarding the re-architecture. However, when the team has more concrete info to share, we will. As you may know, this is a delicate process that takes time to make sure we get this right. So while we don't have any updates now, we hope to share more in the future.
But we are passing on that players are asking for updates around the re-architecture.Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter15 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thanks @ZOS_Kevin
I just had remembered something about the end of 2022 being significant to this process (hopefully I'm remembering right) so as 2022 draws to a close I'll keep my eyes peeled for more updates from you guys!PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
dragonlord500✭✭✭✭✭what is this exactly? is it a remodel of something? sorry I completely missed this.Guild master of Darkness of Sanguinaris. Birthday is December 4th.2 -
Lebkuchen✭✭✭✭✭@dragonlord500 They said they would try to update old hardware and rewrite some code to give the game better performance before it all breaks down. But after a few years of working on it they only managed to update "PC NA datacenter hardware". That gave PC NA players better performance for a while. Nobody knows how long the other servers (PC EU, Xbox NA, Xbox EU, Playstation NA, Playstation EU) will have to wait and nobody knows how the rewrite/re-architecture is going. And we still do not know if it will help performance at all.
Last info we got was this:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/617464/code-rewrite-server-re-architecture-is-there-any-update-on-this/p11 -
LarsS✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Kevin I am sure there is an internal workplan for this project, for ex stating when the coding of different segment should be done and when internal testing will take place. All subject to change of course. So please give us a tentative time line as you did for the hardware updated on PC/EU.GM for The Daggerfall Authority EU PC0 -
Hamish999✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZOS_Kevin I am sure there is an internal workplan for this project, for ex stating when the coding of different segment should be done and when internal testing will take place. All subject to change of course. So please give us a tentative time line as you did for the hardware updated on PC/EU.
There's a sticky post at the top of the forum...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/616021/pc-eu-hardware-update-august-2022/p1
PC-EUDo'Zahra - Khajiit - StamDK - AD
Narese Telvanni - Dunmer - Petsorc - EP
Anastasie Chastain - Breton - Magplar - DC
Gashnakh the Lusty - Orc - Stamsorc - AD
Stands-In-Stoopid - Argonian - Warden Tank - AD
Talia al-Morwha - Redguard - Stamden - AD
Makes-Fier-Wrong - Argonian - Stamblade - AD
Busty-Argonian-Maid - Argonian - Templar Healer - AD
Alaru Telvanni - Dunmer - Stamplar - AD
Ko'Raehsi - Khajiit - Magsorc - AD
Torhild Rock-Chucker - Nord - StamDK - AD
Drusilla Larouche - Breton - MagDK - AD
Ko'Khanni - Khajiit - Magden - AD
Ilithyia Ectorius - Imperial - DK Tank -AD
Rosara Laumont - Breton - Warden Healer - AD
Do'Darri - Khajiit - Stam Arcanist - AD
Keyboard and mouse FTW!0 -
LarsS✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Kevin I am sure there is an internal workplan for this project, for ex stating when the coding of different segment should be done and when internal testing will take place. All subject to change of course. So please give us a tentative time line as you did for the hardware updated on PC/EU.
There's a sticky post at the top of the forum...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/616021/pc-eu-hardware-update-august-2022/p1
Exactly we have info about the timeplan for the hardware update, so it should be possible to give us a tentative timeplan for the server code rewrite to.GM for The Daggerfall Authority EU PC3 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wouldn't be surprised if it's on hold until the EU servers get upgraded.Edited by fred4 on October 27, 2022 2:37PM0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭gariondavey wrote: »Thanks @ZOS_Kevin
I just had remembered something about the end of 2022 being significant to this process (hopefully I'm remembering right) so as 2022 draws to a close I'll keep my eyes peeled for more updates from you guys!
@gariondavey
You remember correctly that they planned to have this done by the end of the year. However, as players, we DO NOT want Zenimax to rush this out before it is ready just to meet the soft timeline they presented. It is better that it is done right.
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UnabashedlyHonest✭✭✭✭✭Does ZOS even have anyone on staff that has the experience to rework or modify any of the engine code?
The Hero engine was not written by ZOS.1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »Does ZOS even have anyone on staff that has the experience to rework or modify any of the engine code?
The Hero engine was not written by ZOS.
Well, they aren't using the Hero engine; the engine they do use was written by ZOS, so, hopefully.
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx
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Kingsindarkness✭✭✭✭✭I know it has been refuted by some of the forum warriors but I do wonder if this refit isn't a slow migration to a new engine, Microsoft could help facilitate this without much of a struggle
Just thinking what they could do with the game if the engine was say Unreal 5 or Unity is exciting.
of course this is just a hope of one player1 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@ZOS_Kevin I am sure there is an internal workplan for this project, for ex stating when the coding of different segment should be done and when internal testing will take place. All subject to change of course. So please give us a tentative time line as you did for the hardware updated on PC/EU.
There's a sticky post at the top of the forum...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/616021/pc-eu-hardware-update-august-2022/p1
Exactly we have info about the timeplan for the hardware update, so it should be possible to give us a tentative timeplan for the server code rewrite to.
Not really.
They have plans to do things and, once they're done, test the results.
The tests may or may not be disappointing.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7490827/#Comment_74908270 -
UnabashedlyHonest✭✭✭✭✭UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »Does ZOS even have anyone on staff that has the experience to rework or modify any of the engine code?
The Hero engine was not written by ZOS.
Well, they aren't using the Hero engine; the engine they do use was written by ZOS, so, hopefully.
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx
During boot up the game says it's running on the Hero engine, and ZOS has repeatedly said ESO runs on a modified Hero engine.3 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »Does ZOS even have anyone on staff that has the experience to rework or modify any of the engine code?
The Hero engine was not written by ZOS.
Well, they aren't using the Hero engine; the engine they do use was written by ZOS, so, hopefully.
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx
During boot up the game says it's running on the Hero engine, and ZOS has repeatedly said ESO runs on a modified Hero engine.
You should read the article. Here is an exerpt:
"so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development. "1 -
UnabashedlyHonest✭✭✭✭✭UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »Does ZOS even have anyone on staff that has the experience to rework or modify any of the engine code?
The Hero engine was not written by ZOS.
Well, they aren't using the Hero engine; the engine they do use was written by ZOS, so, hopefully.
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx
During boot up the game says it's running on the Hero engine, and ZOS has repeatedly said ESO runs on a modified Hero engine.
You should read the article. Here is an exerpt:
"so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development. "
That article is very old, and ZOS has spoken to this issue many times. ESO runs on a modified Hero engine. During boot up the game shows the Hero Engine logo. That article is from 2012. Official release wasn't until 2014. That article is outdated and inaccurate information. No reason to read it, and this issue has been clarified several times on the forum already if you've been here long enough to have read the posts.4 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kingsindarkness wrote: »I know it has been refuted by some of the forum warriors but I do wonder if this refit isn't a slow migration to a new engine, Microsoft could help facilitate this without much of a struggle
Just thinking what they could do with the game if the engine was say Unreal 5 or Unity is exciting.
of course this is just a hope of one player
Unreal 5 isn’t some magic tool that makes games great. In fact, I think it would actually worsen the game in ESOs case. ESO needs an engine that can support large amounts of people in one area using many abilities. This is probably why they use an engine mostly made in house. They needed something that they could modify to fit their unique needs. You might be able to make really stunning looking games with Unreal, but I’m guessing situations with 100+ people in one area would cause massive FPS issues. It’s probably not the best choice for an MMO.
PC NA and Xbox NA2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »Does ZOS even have anyone on staff that has the experience to rework or modify any of the engine code?
The Hero engine was not written by ZOS.
Well, they aren't using the Hero engine; the engine they do use was written by ZOS, so, hopefully.
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx
During boot up the game says it's running on the Hero engine, and ZOS has repeatedly said ESO runs on a modified Hero engine.
You should read the article. Here is an exerpt:
"so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development. "
That article is very old, and ZOS has spoken to this issue many times. ESO runs on a modified Hero engine. During boot up the game shows the Hero Engine logo. That article is from 2012. Official release wasn't until 2014. That article is outdated and inaccurate information. No reason to read it, and this issue has been clarified several times on the forum already if you've been here long enough to have read the posts.
Can you provide a link to Zenimax speaking to this that states it is different than the article the other poster quoted?
All I have seen on the subject is speculation that the engine is an extremely modified hero engine, so much so that it is no longer really a hero engine.
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Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hey @gariondavey. I did answer this in another thread a few weeks ago, but I'll answer here as well. We don't have any updates to share at the moment regarding the re-architecture. However, when the team has more concrete info to share, we will. As you may know, this is a delicate process that takes time to make sure we get this right. So while we don't have any updates now, we hope to share more in the future.
But we are passing on that players are asking for updates around the re-architecture.
It sounds like an expensive redesign with no guarantees that it will have a significant impact.
And no matter how you will redesign it, if there are 60 players clashing and spamming AOEs and everyone is having different stats and mitigations you will clog it no matter what.
Instead of redesigning the combat core, redesign Cyrodiil instead!
For example the performance in Ravenwatch NA is quite good. I notice lag spikes only when there is Zerg vs Zerg fight, literally all the players form the campaign are at the same location.
If you fix that you will fix all the lag I experience.Edited by Didgerion on October 28, 2022 6:07PM0 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭gariondavey wrote: »Thanks @ZOS_Kevin
I just had remembered something about the end of 2022 being significant to this process (hopefully I'm remembering right) so as 2022 draws to a close I'll keep my eyes peeled for more updates from you guys!
@gariondavey
You remember correctly that they planned to have this done by the end of the year. However, as players, we DO NOT want Zenimax to rush this out before it is ready just to meet the soft timeline they presented. It is better that it is done right.
Me asking what I asked isn't going to make them rush to meet a soft dead line. But yes, we do want it done right. We also want communication.PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭gariondavey wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »Thanks @ZOS_Kevin
I just had remembered something about the end of 2022 being significant to this process (hopefully I'm remembering right) so as 2022 draws to a close I'll keep my eyes peeled for more updates from you guys!
@gariondavey
You remember correctly that they planned to have this done by the end of the year. However, as players, we DO NOT want Zenimax to rush this out before it is ready just to meet the soft timeline they presented. It is better that it is done right.
Me asking what I asked isn't going to make them rush to meet a soft dead line. But yes, we do want it done right. We also want communication.
And I did not suggest otherwise.
I do think it is nice that Zenimax is repeating itself again on the update they gave us. That is nice as they usually do not keep repeating themselves.
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Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They are developing a new engine for their upcoming title. Is it possible they will be using it to also rewrite the ESO code?
https://www.zenimaxonline.com/joinus1 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They are developing a new engine for their upcoming title. Is it possible they will be using it to also rewrite the ESO code?
https://www.zenimaxonline.com/joinus
Considering they are still hiring the people to build that engine we know that it will not become part of ESO with the current re-architecture.0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They are developing a new engine for their upcoming title. Is it possible they will be using it to also rewrite the ESO code?
https://www.zenimaxonline.com/joinus
Considering they are still hiring the people to build that engine we know that it will not become part of ESO with the current re-architecture.
Well they’re still hiring senior combat designers for ESO too but that hasn’t stopped them from pushing unfinished product out anyway.6 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭gariondavey wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »Thanks @ZOS_Kevin
I just had remembered something about the end of 2022 being significant to this process (hopefully I'm remembering right) so as 2022 draws to a close I'll keep my eyes peeled for more updates from you guys!
@gariondavey
You remember correctly that they planned to have this done by the end of the year. However, as players, we DO NOT want Zenimax to rush this out before it is ready just to meet the soft timeline they presented. It is better that it is done right.
Me asking what I asked isn't going to make them rush to meet a soft dead line. But yes, we do want it done right. We also want communication.
And I did not suggest otherwise.
I do think it is nice that Zenimax is repeating itself again on the update they gave us. That is nice as they usually do not keep repeating themselves.
It sounded to me like that's what you meant. Hard to determine tone/meaning via text, though.PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They are developing a new engine for their upcoming title. Is it possible they will be using it to also rewrite the ESO code?
https://www.zenimaxonline.com/joinus
Considering they are still hiring the people to build that engine we know that it will not become part of ESO with the current re-architecture.
Well they’re still hiring senior combat designers for ESO too but that hasn’t stopped them from pushing unfinished product out anyway.
Yeah there's specific positions for ZOS as a company (implied to cover the demands of the company, be it the new project or ESO) and a specific position for ESO.
Redoing the old coding and expecting things to work is a massive undertaking, I am not expecting any miracles within a year. Games that are even older than ESO have this issue as well, as games and studios get bought up and the original coders move on to other things or get let go, it can be difficult to make changes and have everything in place at the same time.Edited by Dr_Con on October 28, 2022 1:42AM0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They are developing a new engine for their upcoming title. Is it possible they will be using it to also rewrite the ESO code?
https://www.zenimaxonline.com/joinus
Considering they are still hiring the people to build that engine we know that it will not become part of ESO with the current re-architecture.
Well they’re still hiring senior combat designers for ESO too but that hasn’t stopped them from pushing unfinished product out anyway.
Yeah there's specific positions for ZOS as a company (implied to cover the demands of the company, be it the new project or ESO) and a specific position for ESO.
Redoing the old coding and expecting things to work is a massive undertaking, I am not expecting any miracles within a year. Games that are even older than ESO have this issue as well, as games and studios get bought up and the original coders move on to other things or get let go, it can be difficult to make changes and have everything in place at the same time.
Exactly. Think it would be odd for a group to shut down operations because they are missing a team member or two. That and I have yet to see an MMORPG release new content that does not have bugs.0 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »Does ZOS even have anyone on staff that has the experience to rework or modify any of the engine code?
The Hero engine was not written by ZOS.
Well, they aren't using the Hero engine; the engine they do use was written by ZOS, so, hopefully.
https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx
During boot up the game says it's running on the Hero engine, and ZOS has repeatedly said ESO runs on a modified Hero engine.
You should read the article. Here is an exerpt:
"so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of HeroEngine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development. "
That article is very old, and ZOS has spoken to this issue many times. ESO runs on a modified Hero engine. During boot up the game shows the Hero Engine logo. That article is from 2012. Official release wasn't until 2014. That article is outdated and inaccurate information. No reason to read it, and this issue has been clarified several times on the forum already if you've been here long enough to have read the posts.
Reading posts....
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/824114/#Comment_824114A lot of people were confused by this, so I'll explain what happened. Zenimax Online Studios was founded in 2007 for the purpose of creating ESO. At this point, they were a brand new company and had no technology of their own. They wanted artists to be able to start getting designs done so they could start to get a "feel" for what the zones would look like, but they couldn't due to lack of a graphics engine. The programmers had started one, but it was still a couple years away from even being in the testing phase.
So ZOS licensed Hero Engine. They handed it over to the art dept and had them start using it to prototype areas. This way the artists weren't twiddling their thumbs waiting for the programmers to get a working engine to them. They continued to use it until the custom engine was ready, at which point they switched their work over to the actual ESO engine.
The final game does not use Hero Engine in any way. But it is shown in some of the game credits, because it WAS used in early development (as I stated above). But the final engine does not use any code from Hero Engine, it's completely custom. I've heard about 100 people say in-game "There's no way this is using Hero Engine, if it were it would choke with 5 players on screen, and it doesn't". This is why.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5599569/#Comment_5599569When ESO was first released it was using Hero Engine and it was advertised as such when you loaded up the screen before you logged in. About the time of One Tamriel being released, they removed the Hero Engine reference from the loading to logon screens.2 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They are developing a new engine for their upcoming title. Is it possible they will be using it to also rewrite the ESO code?
https://www.zenimaxonline.com/joinus
Considering they are still hiring the people to build that engine we know that it will not become part of ESO with the current re-architecture.
Well they’re still hiring senior combat designers for ESO too but that hasn’t stopped them from pushing unfinished product out anyway.
Or pushing out extremely unpopular updates like U33 (AwA's) and U35.5