I can't sustain my whip now.

LesserCircle · October 2022

So after trying my Magicka Dragonknight again after update 35 I find myself running out of stamina?

Who thought this was a good idea? Stop forcing this hybridization to us, the game is much less interesting than it was. Why do I need to change my skills and gear every single update to be able to play how I want? Stop please. Please.

BloodyStigmata · October 2022

I'm not having any difficulty maintaining it on either my stam DK or my mag DK, and my mag DK is a Nord.

Have you tried running different food? Crunchy spider skewer might help.

phaneub17_ESO · October 2022

Indeko cost reduction jewelry enchants work on both stamina and magicka for whip, the singles don't for some odd reason.

SPR_of_HA_community · October 2022

HA builds are bow just dead in PVP, It is hard to even make some thing playable on lightning staves in pvp now, so I understand your pain.

And the same time skills do not press in Cyro for 6+ seconds ... .

It is disappointing.

Dr_Con · October 2022

many topics on this, the community seems split. they also nerfed the damage.

i believe you're expected to spam standard and heroism pots whenever they're up to sustain yourself now.

MidniteOwl1913 · October 2022

I put my DK on the shelf and built a sorc. Maybe it will be playable again at some point.

zaria · October 2022

Dr_Con wrote: »

many topics on this, the community seems split. they also nerfed the damage.

i believe you're expected to spam standard and heroism pots whenever they're up to sustain yourself now.

Has not seen many praising U35 just people having different problems.
Much lower dps, sustain issues less healing and so on.
The whip is an special issue as it uses two resources.
I like the hybridization but not U35 obviously.
Remember then poison injection one shot standard overland mobs in one shot, now its useless.

FluffWit · October 2022

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I put my DK on the shelf and built a sorc. Maybe it will be playable again at some point.

I switched to two handed and just spam Cleave on a one bar. Its boring but at least I can solo most world bosses easily.

Couldnt see much point running a full rotation after what they did to sticky dots.

M0ntie · October 2022

I found this at first too in my beloved magdk. Use the food that gives mag plus stam recovery as suggested. I run one or two less stam skills. Using Stormfist monster set also has a line of stam recovery.
Just tweak your build and you’ll be fine.

LesserCircle · October 2022

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, I might try some of these, but it's still annoying having to change every single update and even if these work I won't have stamina to dodge or block.

Auldwulfe · October 2022

I'm finding that, at least for overland and exploring, that I am really beginning to like Druid's Braid.

I find that I can survive past most things, do enough to keep myself up and going, and react a lot better, when my plan doesn't work as intended...
Not going to give you hard advice, as everyone plays differently, but I have found it helps.

Auldwulfe

TaSheen · October 2022

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I'm finding that, at least for overland and exploring, that I am really beginning to like Druid's Braid.

I find that I can survive past most things, do enough to keep myself up and going, and react a lot better, when my plan doesn't work as intended...
Not going to give you hard advice, as everyone plays differently, but I have found it helps.

Auldwulfe

I use Druid's Braid now on nearly every character under CP 160. It's a definite keeper - which probably means it'll get nerfed before long.

Auldwulfe · October 2022

TaSheen wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I'm finding that, at least for overland and exploring, that I am really beginning to like Druid's Braid.

I find that I can survive past most things, do enough to keep myself up and going, and react a lot better, when my plan doesn't work as intended...
Not going to give you hard advice, as everyone plays differently, but I have found it helps.

Auldwulfe

I use Druid's Braid now on nearly every character under CP 160. It's a definite keeper - which probably means it'll get nerfed before long.

I have not tried it on my level 50+ characters, yet --- I am a champion 890, so get those on my low level guys --
I plan on trying it out, soon, though, on one --- I don't do a Lot of group content, and only rarely travel to Cyrodiil, so far...... so going to see how it works just having the high stats, for a bit.

At the very least, though, it gives me a bit of cushion as I learn other things. I'm an old man, so while I can weave my flurry and light attacks pretty well -- longer rotations are still something I am working on ... I am up to getting decent on a single bar build .... not sure I like the whole back and forth thing, yet.... but will see how it goes as I learn more.

Auldwulfe

TaSheen · October 2022

Auldwulfe wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I'm finding that, at least for overland and exploring, that I am really beginning to like Druid's Braid.

I find that I can survive past most things, do enough to keep myself up and going, and react a lot better, when my plan doesn't work as intended...
Not going to give you hard advice, as everyone plays differently, but I have found it helps.

Auldwulfe

I use Druid's Braid now on nearly every character under CP 160. It's a definite keeper - which probably means it'll get nerfed before long.

I have not tried it on my level 50+ characters, yet --- I am a champion 890, so get those on my low level guys --
I plan on trying it out, soon, though, on one --- I don't do a Lot of group content, and only rarely travel to Cyrodiil, so far...... so going to see how it works just having the high stats, for a bit.

At the very least, though, it gives me a bit of cushion as I learn other things. I'm an old man, so while I can weave my flurry and light attacks pretty well -- longer rotations are still something I am working on ... I am up to getting decent on a single bar build .... not sure I like the whole back and forth thing, yet.... but will see how it goes as I learn more.

Auldwulfe

The bar swap thing just doesn't work for me - crap internet, and aging reflexes, y'know? I'm in my 70s so it only gets worse from here! I've got Oakensoul on 4 of 6 account mains (I have 3 accounts both PC NA and EU) and I use some base game sets on those - Hunding's, Night Mother, Sellistrix shoulder, a couple of Hexos' Ward jewelry (amulet and ring) plus Oakensoul ring. They do pretty well as long as my lag isn't too bad - it's worse on EU since I'm in the US, but as long as there aren't tons of things going on I manage. Vents and the crab boss are pretty hard with all the players and particle effects - still have those two leads to get for my EU CP160 on one account, and was hoping to get those leads during this event but hasn't happened yet!

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2022

TaSheen wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I'm finding that, at least for overland and exploring, that I am really beginning to like Druid's Braid.

I find that I can survive past most things, do enough to keep myself up and going, and react a lot better, when my plan doesn't work as intended...
Not going to give you hard advice, as everyone plays differently, but I have found it helps.

Auldwulfe

I use Druid's Braid now on nearly every character under CP 160. It's a definite keeper - which probably means it'll get nerfed before long.

Doubt it will get nerfed TBH. I get the appeal, but It is far from meta. Useful, but not overpowered. Of course, with ZOS, who knows.

As to hybird whip. Classic ZOS. They gave a solution that nobody wanted. It certainly didnt accomplish their stated goal of raising the floor. No offense intended, but the ceiling has no problem with sustaining this skill. But of course, the ceiling can run parse food in pretty much all content. It just further complicates things. It was a bad decision.

All they had to do was make one morph magic and one morph stam, and everyone would have been happy.

TaSheen · October 2022

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

I'm finding that, at least for overland and exploring, that I am really beginning to like Druid's Braid.

I find that I can survive past most things, do enough to keep myself up and going, and react a lot better, when my plan doesn't work as intended...
Not going to give you hard advice, as everyone plays differently, but I have found it helps.

Auldwulfe

I use Druid's Braid now on nearly every character under CP 160. It's a definite keeper - which probably means it'll get nerfed before long.

Doubt it will get nerfed TBH. I get the appeal, but It is far from meta. Useful, but not overpowered. Of course, with ZOS, who knows.

As to hybird whip. Classic ZOS. They gave a solution that nobody wanted. It certainly didnt accomplish their stated goal of raising the floor. No offense intended, but the ceiling has no problem with sustaining this skill. But of course, the ceiling can run parse food in pretty much all content. It just further complicates things. It was a bad decision.

All they had to do was make one morph magic and one morph stam, and everyone would have been happy.

I've never run meta in my entire gaming life. I'm not a "serious" gamer - I play to have fun my way. Which is why I'm happy with overland the way it is of course!

And yes, for my low level DKs, I'm just ignoring them for the moment. One morph for each would have been way to obvious and sensible I guess?

Necrotech_Master · October 2022

i dont really have a problem with the hybrid whip because i use flames of oblivion more as a spammable because it hits decently hard and is cheap, but also buffs dmg for the whip (so i use the whip roughly every 3rd or 4th cast, ideally 4th for the best dmg)

another semi spammable thats not bad is probably talons, as that has a "sticky" dot, but it wasnt nerfed like other sticky dots

Hapexamendios · October 2022

I don't like the change to the whip myself. I'd rather have one stam and one mag version. Not a fan of hybrid skills. On my mag dk stam is for breaking free and dodge roll. On my stam dk mag is for buffs. The hybrid costs split uses up the lesser resource too much for me. Can easily not use it on my stam dk. Maybe I'll use the psjiic skill Elemental Weapon on my mag dk. Either way the whip is a useless skill imo.

KlauthWarthog · October 2022

We basically ended up with a bizarro version of what the community was asking for. I can sustain it just fine... on my Stam DK. On my Mag DK, I just switched to elemental weapon and called it a day. Too much jumping through hoops to make it work.

jtm1018 · October 2022

LesserCircle wrote: »

So after trying my Magicka Dragonknight again after update 35 I find myself running out of stamina?

Who thought this was a good idea? Stop forcing this hybridization to us, the game is much less interesting than it was. Why do I need to change my skills and gear every single update to be able to play how I want? Stop please. Please.

Well good thing I have a breton dk, with seducer set and 3x infused magicka cost reduction enchantment on the jewels.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i dont really have a problem with the hybrid whip because i use flames of oblivion more as a spammable because it hits decently hard and is cheap, but also buffs dmg for the whip (so i use the whip roughly every 3rd or 4th cast, ideally 4th for the best dmg)

another semi spammable thats not bad is probably talons, as that has a "sticky" dot, but it wasnt nerfed like other sticky dots

There is certainly an argument that in a proper hybrid rotation, the hybrid morph is better. Hybrid meta does actually make sustain easier because you can balance skills to be sure you arent running out of either resource. For example, on a mag DPS, having a stamina skill like trap is actually nice for your magic sustain.

Someone that is juggling 10 skills efficiently is going to cast whip a lot less often and more spaced out than someone that uses 2-3 DOTS and then whips something to death. The second player in that example is certainly going to struggle with stamina management if they are spec'ed into magic.

So back to ZOS's stated goal of raising the floor: Fail.

aurelius_fx · October 2022

noticed the same issues on my dk a while ago while trying it out just out of the box in an arena, it's really annoying because it further limits the amount of stam skills you can have on your back bar, (no more caltrops/vma sword/barbed trap aka more damage than their mag counterparts, if you need to block or roll dodge once you're done for) plus not wearing medium armor naturally increases the stamina cost of the skill

it's even more alarming how they made it so dots last longer so you'll have more time to spam your whip. really frustrating how as a magicka class you're much more concerned with your stamina than your magicka

Didgerion · October 2022

Well they are slowly fixing their original mistake.

And that is there shouldn't be 2 different resources for dealing damage.

Just think about it how silly stamina resource sounds. If you are a powerful mage then how come you cannot dodge, block, sprint using magica?
...oh wait! but you can now with the new set!

Looks like we just need another set that will flip skill costs from stamina to magica.
Or maybe a resource slider so we could control what a skill will cost.

...or (for the sake of simplicity) just get rid of one resource already!

Narvuntien · October 2022

I removed Barbed Trap and slotted the Psijic minor force enabler instead and my sustain is okay now.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2022

Didgerion wrote: »

Well they are slowly fixing their original mistake.

And that is there shouldn't be 2 different resources for dealing damage.

Just think about it how silly stamina resource sounds. If you are a powerful mage then how come you cannot dodge, block, sprint using magica?
...oh wait! but you can now with the new set!

Looks like we just need another set that will flip skill costs from stamina to magica.
Or maybe a resource slider so we could control what a skill will cost.

...or (for the sake of simplicity) just get rid of one resource already!

That mythic is pretty niche. I dont think it really fixes the issue. Best class/spec I could see using something like that is a PVP mag sorc that is spec'ed all into magic, but even then, what are you giving up (another mythic or second piece of a monster most likely), and is it really better. Everyone has a base stamina pool. Using this set makes that a waste unless you are utilizing enough stamina skills to utilize it to its fullest without exhausting it.

DMuehlhausen · October 2022

Not been having any issues on mine. I'm not pushing content or anything but iun just rando vets been more than fine

Agenericname · October 2022

I havent found myself unable to sustain personally, but, it seems like a solution to an irrelevant problem. Still, Id rather use the whip than jabs.

beer781993 · October 2022

It's easy to sustain it on Magdk. Play Daggers on the Frontbar, poison claw plus maybe trap but I recommend Tzogvins in content because dk has barely any penetration, so u have only whip and claw that cost stam...

If you re using the undaunted orb on the backbar, you get even stam reg while it's active.

Use free dodgeroll and break free in red cps and it's even easier to sustain in combat.

If you are low do 1 heavy attack with the Daggers and you recover plenty of Stam.

Dk is the strongest DD in PvE atm and gets even stronger next patch. Don't know why people are whining.

Even your ulti is refilling all of your resources.
I play dk everywhere with Max Mag, max health food.

We play mostly dk in our planesbreaker prog.

LesserCircle · October 2022

beer781993 wrote: »

It's easy to sustain it on Magdk. Play Daggers on the Frontbar, poison claw plus maybe trap but I recommend Tzogvins in content because dk has barely any penetration, so u have only whip and claw that cost stam...

If you re using the undaunted orb on the backbar, you get even stam reg while it's active.

Use free dodgeroll and break free in red cps and it's even easier to sustain in combat.

If you are low do 1 heavy attack with the Daggers and you recover plenty of Stam.

Dk is the strongest DD in PvE atm and gets even stronger next patch. Don't know why people are whining.

Even your ulti is refilling all of your resources.
I play dk everywhere with Max Mag, max health food.

We play mostly dk in our planesbreaker prog.

Well, we're complaining because it was just a completely useless of a change that is only annoying.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2022

LesserCircle wrote: »

beer781993 wrote: »

It's easy to sustain it on Magdk. Play Daggers on the Frontbar, poison claw plus maybe trap but I recommend Tzogvins in content because dk has barely any penetration, so u have only whip and claw that cost stam...

If you re using the undaunted orb on the backbar, you get even stam reg while it's active.

Use free dodgeroll and break free in red cps and it's even easier to sustain in combat.

If you are low do 1 heavy attack with the Daggers and you recover plenty of Stam.

Dk is the strongest DD in PvE atm and gets even stronger next patch. Don't know why people are whining.

Even your ulti is refilling all of your resources.
I play dk everywhere with Max Mag, max health food.

We play mostly dk in our planesbreaker prog.

Well, we're complaining because it was just a completely useless of a change that is only annoying.

FWIW worth, I don't think the change was useless, unusual is a better term. I do think it was a change that didnt serve to increase accessibility. People have been wanting a stam whip for years, and this was their answer (even said so in Natch Potes). The hybrid meta does open the door for this kinda stuff, just not sure it fits their stated goals.

Dagoth_Rac · October 2022

While the damage of skills is now hybrid, resources themselves are not hybrid. Max magicka lines on a set do not also give max stamina. Magicka recovery lines on a set do not also give stamina recovery. While things like crit chance and armor and spell/weapon damage have been merged, resources and resource sustain have not. That is why I think the hybrid whip makes no sense.