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There's a Big Problem with PvE
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Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
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When did I ever mention anything about banning? I'm talking about ways of teaching players how to play their class and more prerequisites in place when it comes to joining certain content.So, your solution would be for ZOS to warn, temp ban, and then outright ban the elitist *** who make it a habit to harass other players, new or old. Interesting. Not sure how ZOS would manage to make the elite overlords be civil and polite to the not-elite [in their eyes] scrub peasants, because internet/keyboard warrior/anonymity. If they ever did attempt to enforce polite behavior, there would be a flood of outraged posts about free speech and stuff. It might be beneficial to popcorn sales for forum readers, but not much would actually be improved in the game.
[snip]
[edited for bashing & discussing moderator action]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 24, 2022 4:48PM0 -
NeuroticPixels✭✭✭✭✭I feel like you keep changing what you’re talking about. First, it was ZOS not doing anything about big ol’ meanies.
And then I guess it changed into the game needing to hand-hold more with helping players learn their class and how to play their role.
And now it’s about ZOS being a money-grubbing company?
With respect, choose a lane. What do you want to complain about? What was your hope or goal with this thread?Edited by NeuroticPixels on October 24, 2022 3:39PMCheck out the ReShade I made: Crispy Sharpness11 -
Cazador✭✭✭✭✭NeuroticPixels wrote: »I feel like you keep changing what you’re talking about. First, it was ZOS not doing anything about big ol’ meanies.
And then I guess it changed into the game needing to hand-hold more with helping players learn their class and how to play their role.
And now it’s about ZOS being a money-grubbing company?
With respect, choose a lane. What do you want to complain about? What was your hope or goal with this thread?
This is exactly what I was thinking. At the start they mentioned players being gatekept then later stated there should be further restrictions to certain content (which has remained unspecified). I kind of suspect that they just have a bunch of disconnected grievances they're airing that make their point nearly impossible to follow.5 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rage thread about being upset about a guy getting kicked that you voted to kick... Hmm.....19 -
Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
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The only thing that is a mess and impossible to follow are the decisions of the devs lately, for the most part I stayed on topic though. Also, you're not wrong, I have a lot of issues with what used to be my favorite mmorpg. And you did help me realize something, it's probably time for another break, let's see how more messed up the game is going to be when I come back. My criticism stands for grouped content of that kind and what they could do better.This is exactly what I was thinking. At the start they mentioned players being gatekept then later stated there should be further restrictions to certain content (which has remained unspecified). I kind of suspect that they just have a bunch of disconnected grievances they're airing that make their point nearly impossible to follow.
Also, I explained what happened with the group mate, yet people still mention it, in that case: whatever.
Edited by Shagreth on October 24, 2022 6:09PM0 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't think the tanks gatekeep vet content, but there exist instakill mechs that will kill the group unless one dps pulls the other dps's weight, or a replacement is gotten. a big example is graven deep, that dungeon should be 700 or 800 cp required for all. I don't have a problem running it, but the people who have around 400 cp do even if they are taught the mechs.
Not having the ability to have 4 slotted CP is a huge hindrance on the potential of players for vet content and they need to be told this early on. I do want to group with them and would be happy to, but they need to work on their character a bit more.Edited by Dr_Con on October 24, 2022 7:13PM1 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Okay so "learn your class". But it's not just learn your class once. It's learn your class every three months! When class-defining skills like whip and jabs are hugely changed it affects players such they basically need to relearn the class. A lot of people don't have the time or the energy to do that.
PS5/NA6 -
Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
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Agreed, the developers have failed on this big time, the design philosophy is just bad.MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »Okay so "learn your class". But it's not just learn your class once. It's learn your class every three months! When class-defining skills like whip and jabs are hugely changed it affects players such they basically need to relearn the class. A lot of people don't have the time or the energy to do that.
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »
Fixed it, somewhat. In any case, there's things ZoS could do to promote the learning of one's class and/or put more restrictions in place, that's for sure and yes, it wouldn't solve the problem fully -- but it would help.While my replies were to the body of the OP, not the title, the title does specifically state that PvE is ruining the game so it is an easy mistake.
I'd argue it would make the problem worse as it would send the message that the gatekeeping style of behavior is acceptable.
and it is based on an assumption that everyone wants to play more optimally or similarly. The forums tells us that is not the case with people saying they avoid meta builds.
Also, I know players who could care less what you think of their DPS. They have the build they want, and even though they know their build performs on the LOW LOW END for DPS they are happy with it. Going into a random group via the GF is literally asking for a chance to be paired with such a player. I have seen players with super high sustain and even though they understand it nerfs their damage they like it that way so they do not run out of energy.
No amount of training from Zenimax (who is not the expert on how to play the game) will change that.
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kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »Okay so "learn your class". But it's not just learn your class once. It's learn your class every three months! When class-defining skills like whip and jabs are hugely changed it affects players such they basically need to relearn the class. A lot of people don't have the time or the energy to do that.
No need for that. If you react to the mechanics crafted gear and a simple rotation will get you through most if not all content.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
ixthUA✭✭✭✭✭From my experience it takes 1 player to complete normal dungeons, except when there is a brief 2-player mechanic.
So there are 3 expert veteran 130k dds (one as fake tank and one as fake healer) and a poor lv20 newbie, who started playing a week ago. And newbie gets kicked because they cannot do 130k dps on a 500k hp boss. And dungeon finder does not find a replacement until dungeon ends. Group disbands as they do not have 4 dds in normal dungeon, obviously the run is doomed.
Ive done a lot of hard mode base game veteran dungeons with 1 dd, or without tank or healer, without problems. Game certainly has space for errors. Its not like garuda / titan extreme in ffxiv, where 1 dancing mistake wipes whole the whole group.1 -
deleted221205-002626✭✭✭✭✭There was a time when the internet and online gaming 1st came out where people treated eachother with respect and had fun. This was primarily due to everyone being used to dealing with people IRL and knew the social consequences for being a slimy person!
nowadays everyone living on the internet and many never having seen another real person in a decade feel free to do and act however they want, freaking out and calling on game manufactureres to deal with people they dont like for whatever reason and no social consequences to them at all for being as likly toxic themselves as everyone is.
The problem here IMO is company interaction on anything more than death threats etc. The ONLY punishmest for being a slimy selfish anti-social person should be like its always been... "Becoming a social outcast" and known for it! Not other people being wrongly banned cuz they freaked out at you for being slimy etc.
This is what im seeing now 90% of the time is the wrong people being banned by companies trying to police half documented and completely out of context conversations and actions!!
ZOS need to back out of doing any of this.. Leave it to the people to iron out like we've done for thousands of years!!
***An example of whats happening right now.. 2 kids in a playground fighting... 1 punches the other in the face... ZOS comes out and bans the one that punched the other in the face obviously without even quesitoning as to why they did it and the other gets away without any reprocussions when they likly did something in the 1st place to deserve some form of punishment. This keeps happening over and over and over until were left with an entire schoolyard filled with people doing anti-social things to deserve punishement and getting away with it freaking out at everyone else trying to get them all banned! A completely toxic environment!!Edited by deleted221205-002626 on October 24, 2022 10:19PM2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The main issue (as I see it) is that modern vet dungeon basic requirements have gotten so high, players have started to gatekeeper just because they want to complete the dungeon.
And this has had a trickle down affect in that groups are gatekeeping dungeons that even lower skilled players should be able to complete.
That’s why I am not that upset about Zos’s design philosophy to nerf top end dps. As long as lower end dps is not affected that is (I don’t think the latest combat changes accomplished that).
We have seen this happen in WoW where difficult dungeons breed gatekeeping and general toxic behavior in players. Yes people in this game are a bit more chill than other mmo’s, but dungeon/trial difficulty can change attitudes rather quickly1 -
Rampeal✭✭✭✭✭You want to fix PvE? Here is some solutions.
1. Tanks- Raise the 50% cap from 33k to 55k.
2. Healers- Healing is only affected by Max Stamina,Health,Magicka. No more Weapon/Spell Damage heals.
3. DD- Damage is only affected by Weapon/Spell Damage and no longer affected by Magicka, Stamina.
You would see a instant drop of fake Tanks/Heals and give meaning back to the Roles. DD should never have the armor of a tank and the heals of a healer. DD are meant to be HIGH damage and low survivability. If you want to be a hybrid that is fine, but you should never be able to be better than a pure Tank, Healer, or Damage Dealer.
This game would be better off is ZoS would stop listening to the Meta 10% and started listening to the other 90%.5 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
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I like how many reactions this is getting and people are like "got him!". Yes, I voted for him to get kicked and then also left myself, we had completed roughly 50% of the run but the bullying was relentless, then I had a chat with that dps, we became friends, he/she told me how bad they felt during the run, how they will never queue again etc. then I proceeded to make this post. I refused to keep playing with trash, so when the vote came up I made my mind, making a decision for the DPS is my only sin here, so, keep casting stones and ignoring the issue. 😋NeuroticPixels wrote: »
I did get you. You're toxic. But explain again how you refused to play with "trash" that'll bring more likes your way.
Just let the thread die homie. You started out on a bad foot. Try again later with a slightly different context and most of us will agree. It was just a horrible misstep to expose yourself as having been part of the crime.
It isn't as though we havent all done the same thing. And, long ago, I was the one getting kicked. So what goes around comes around.
Tutorials should be better, sure. But honestly there's a lot of things to do in this game but doing your dailies is something we almost all do. So you encounter home furnishers... Pvpers... Noobs... Fake roles, bad players, whatever.
I fall into one of those categories other than "I come into this with a complete Pve build, rotation, and faith in my random allies to do my job and only my job." That being said, I can basically carry any group through any thing.
Is it really a big deal?????????Edited by OBJnoob on October 25, 2022 12:13AM8 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You want to fix PvE? Here is some solutions.
1. Tanks- Raise the 50% cap from 33k to 55k.
2. Healers- Healing is only affected by Max Stamina,Health,Magicka. No more Weapon/Spell Damage heals.
3. DD- Damage is only affected by Weapon/Spell Damage and no longer affected by Magicka, Stamina.
You would see a instant drop of fake Tanks/Heals and give meaning back to the Roles. DD should never have the armor of a tank and the heals of a healer. DD are meant to be HIGH damage and low survivability. If you want to be a hybrid that is fine, but you should never be able to be better than a pure Tank, Healer, or Damage Dealer.
This game would be better off is ZoS would stop listening to the Meta 10% and started listening to the other 90%.
while I don't disagree with the spirit of this post, I think it should be harder to reach the cap of 33k spell/armor resist, or that more monsters should have pen.0 -
deleted221205-002626✭✭✭✭✭2. Healers- Healing is only affected by Max Stamina,Health,Magicka. No more Weapon/Spell Damage heals.
This wont have any effect as we will likly want heals to end up about where they are now and all those fake heals dps will also be very high in stam/mag and change nothing.
My suggestion of healing and dps be majorly affected by CP is a better way so you can's be spec'd as both at the same time.. CP is the way to seperate them imo.0 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
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This wont have any effect as we will likly want heals to end up about where they are now and all those fake heals dps will also be very high in stam/mag and change nothing.
My suggestion of healing and dps be majorly affected by CP is a better way so you can's be spec'd as both at the same time.. CP is the way to seperate them imo.
how are fake heals impacting your ability to play a dungeon? Who is dying and in which dungeons? Be specific, these generalities are the worst and do not help the devs.1 -
SammyKhajit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thread seems to have run its course. OP, maybe a break and a Kit Kat is in order?5 -
Rowjoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭Toxicity in games will always be an issue unfortunately - that's down to broarder problems within societies and individuals with an inherant lack of decency, understanding and tolerance, but it doesn't help that the game is nowhere near as good or challenging as it could and should be 8 years after launch.
There's been a fixation on attempting to cater to ultra casual players which hasn't worked and which has led to a serious lack of progressive and robust development to the detriment of meaningful, interesting and rewarding content. ESO has lost the edge it once had because of it and is begining to face the consequences.
The balancing process in PVP lurches from one set of ill thought out decisions to the next, and is now in the worst state it has ever been with god mode unkillable players in abundance - history dictates that any MMO that facilitates and enables that will be in trouble sooner or later.
The drop in numbers can be felt all over the place.
Edited by Rowjoh on October 25, 2022 10:18AM2 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭From complaining about low CP's, to tanks gatekeeping low vets based on DPS etc. etc. I am kinda glad to see that the game is seeing lower and lower numbers of players -- since the devs simply refuse to address certain issues. Yes, I am bitter, I saw a poor guy get kicked after being mocked for the whole run by the tank & healer and it's not the first time. This happened on the very first day I came back after a break, can't imagine how often it happens, especially nowadays.
And no, before some of you start going crazy, people SHOULD know how to play their class, my beef is with ZoS pretending this is not an issue. You see this in other mmorgp's too, but it's just crazy with ESO.
[edited for naming-and-shaming]
In the ESO community nowadays there is an aversion to learning to play the game. It seems like a lot of people think that they should be able to pick up the game and with 0 effort do all the story content. I have never seen a game cater to people who do not appreciate the mechanics of said game so much.2 -
Roztlin45✭✭✭✭✭While technologies advance through steady growth. We humans act out primitive impulses with no self control. The idea of self overrides compassion. What you are addressing in this thread is a microcosm of mankind's struggle from the first civilization. I am just guessing here but I don't think nor expect zos to fix that.2 -
HappyDan✭✭✭What do you expect? all the OG's left long time ago.
Maybe if new meaningful content released or some way to earn mounts/pets/costumes without dropping $$$ more people would play.
You probably had some bad apples, but it gets more common as the good people just don't play anymore.2 -
Araxyte✭✭✭✭perfiction wrote: »Is it PvE scene tho? For me it sounds like ZOS fault. Lack of meaningful tutorials combined with dumbed down overland content which you can clear by holding left mouse button. "People SHOULD know how to play their class", but ZOS doesn't even try to teach them.
Spot on. New players walk into dungeons expecting god-mode like they have in overland and then get slapped in the face with mandatory mechanics. This is the catalyst for toxic players.
It's all sunshine and flowers until the poor overland adventurer tries to RP Velidreth to death.
Jokes aside, ZOS needs to create a learning ladder. Not a learning cliff. Improve the state of overland and tutorials please.| All classes | PC EU |3 -
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