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Dear ZoS, I may have a genuine solution for your Balancing issues.
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FluffyBird✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kingsindarkness wrote: »FluffyBird wrote: »Kingsindarkness wrote: »Or just take the meta out back and put it out of its misery...
Josh Strife Hays created a great video back in 2020 about how Metas inevitably ruin MMO's and that's doubly true considering how ESO is distancing itself from the MMO title.
Meta never really makes the best that much better, it only really helps Hyper-competitive players and pretty much gives the finger to everyone else.
It's an unpopular opinion...but it would solve a lot of issues.
Meta is simply the most optimal setup for the task. To get rid of meta ESO needs to be perfectly balanced (like all things should be), but you propose to balance by getting rid of the meta.
So, how ZOS could take out meta if not by balancing?
That's the thing though... this activistic need for balance...it's the hyper-competitive that demands it, no one else does. Most people play just to have fun, they could care less if they are doing .000000001% more damage than the other guy and honestly following the meta doesn't make you that much more profecient....all the meta has ever done is let a few people thump their chest and lord over others
It's silly and like the video I mentioned...I think it will go the way of the Dodo one day.
The Trinity the meta all of this needs to be abolished (rather the Trinity should be abolished and the meta reformed)...the Hyper-Competitive elements of this game does nothing but breed discord and toxicity. It has to end.
Labels and mixing up meta and elitism aside: how? How do you remove trinity from the game built around trinity? How do you get rid of meta in PVP? Why would meta change if one needs N tanks and M healers for a certain trial?
To be clear: I'm not against getting rid of established combat system, I don't really care. But I just don't see how what you propose can be achieved. Surely, you have some more defined idea?0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kingsindarkness wrote: »Or just take the meta out back and put it out of its misery...
Josh Strife Hays created a great video back in 2020 about how Metas inevitably ruin MMO's and that's doubly true considering how ESO is distancing itself from the MMO title.
Meta never really makes the best that much better, it only really helps Hyper-competitive players and pretty much gives the finger to everyone else.
It's an unpopular opinion...but it would solve a lot of issues.
There will always be a meta. It might look different depending on what rules/limitations you put on the game, but there will always be one as long as their are build choices to be made. Removing the Meta means removing all choice in a character-building MMO.
Do most people care about the meta, no, but as long as you have leaderboards and time based achievements, people are going to figure out how to clear content as fast as possible. Call it meta, call it whatever you want.
Also, if you think the meta is not that much difference, you have never played anywhere close to it. Perfectly okay, again, most people dont care about it, but the difference between a group of coordinated vs uncoordinated players at the same skill level is staggering in this game. True Meta not only involves the build choices you make as an individual but also how you build your group as a whole. I can pull 60k in one group and 110k in another on the same fight pushing the same buttons.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭All they need to do is to get rid of classes. Then the game will be much easier to balance.
Dozen of skill lines each with unique skills is all players need. Let the player create their own class using skills.
Right now ZOS wants to balance the game while preserving the class identity. That is impossible to do.
Perfect balance is a goal, but not something that can ever be achieved unless all choice is removed from the game, and we just run around spamming LAs. And certainly, the game would be easier to balance without classes, but in that case, the meta would become even more obvious and harder to escape. Everyone would pick the same 12 skills as a DPS. It would be really boring.0 -
Kingsindarkness✭✭✭✭✭FluffyBird wrote: »Kingsindarkness wrote: »FluffyBird wrote: »Kingsindarkness wrote: »Or just take the meta out back and put it out of its misery...
Josh Strife Hays created a great video back in 2020 about how Metas inevitably ruin MMO's and that's doubly true considering how ESO is distancing itself from the MMO title.
Meta never really makes the best that much better, it only really helps Hyper-competitive players and pretty much gives the finger to everyone else.
It's an unpopular opinion...but it would solve a lot of issues.
Meta is simply the most optimal setup for the task. To get rid of meta ESO needs to be perfectly balanced (like all things should be), but you propose to balance by getting rid of the meta.
So, how ZOS could take out meta if not by balancing?
That's the thing though... this activistic need for balance...it's the hyper-competitive that demands it, no one else does. Most people play just to have fun, they could care less if they are doing .000000001% more damage than the other guy and honestly following the meta doesn't make you that much more profecient....all the meta has ever done is let a few people thump their chest and lord over others
It's silly and like the video I mentioned...I think it will go the way of the Dodo one day.
The Trinity the meta all of this needs to be abolished (rather the Trinity should be abolished and the meta reformed)...the Hyper-Competitive elements of this game does nothing but breed discord and toxicity. It has to end.
Labels and mixing up meta and elitism aside: how? How do you remove trinity from the game built around trinity? How do you get rid of meta in PVP? Why would meta change if one needs N tanks and M healers for a certain trial?
To be clear: I'm not against getting rid of established combat system, I don't really care. But I just don't see how what you propose can be achieved. Surely, you have some more defined idea?
I do but honestly don't feel like going into it right now...it has mostly to do with dynamism changing how the mob behaves more than the player and how you don't bring the same deck to a MTG game every time...fuzzy I know but it is what it is...I'll lay it all out at some point.
This is a loosey goosey explanation, not nearly exact of what I am thinking
Edited by Kingsindarkness on October 20, 2022 9:24PM1