Why Necromancer is the only one with "Criminal" Skills

blue_peaceful_Manticore · October 2022

We are in quests and have to kill someone... cast skills to complete quest... bountie!!! Innocents join guards, we kill them by mistake... Now pay or run....
Why immersion is this game is 100% death!? Just why?

edit:
At this point, ESO = SpendMoney in CrownStore, Pay for new mats to create new items (cuz old ones get nurf), and they will last until something new get out and go make trials. This is ESO
ESO have 0 immersion at this point. Nothing in here make sence. Nothing!!

Soarora · October 2022

Werewolf and vampire are also criminal. You can use global skills if you’re in a town to not get a bounty, though I’m not sure why you’re fighting near a guard anyway unless you’re dueling.

SilverIce58 · October 2022

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

blue_peaceful_Manticore · October 2022

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

Soarora · October 2022

EnKor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

Necromancers being illegal IS immersive, that’s why they’re illegal. I would call the guards if someone summoned undead in front of me too.

Dr_Con · October 2022

I don't like quest NPCs reporting you.

I could be in craglorn just doing the main quest with the leader of the evil scale order people, having just murdered a whole delve, and right outside i'll use a necro skill in front of her after she gives me awards for her and me murdering people in her order and wants to keep our association a secret, and she'll still report a theft or illegal action to the guards.

blue_peaceful_Manticore · October 2022

Soarora wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

Necromancers being illegal IS immersive, that’s why they’re illegal. I would call the guards if someone summoned undead in front of me too.

i can agree with that. But then, since other classes have none criminal skills.... that break immersion in other classes. Once again... immersion in this game = 0

Dr_Con · October 2022

EnKor wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

Necromancers being illegal IS immersive, that’s why they’re illegal. I would call the guards if someone summoned undead in front of me too.

i can agree with that. But then, since other classes have none criminal skills.... that break immersion in other classes. Once again... immersion in this game = 0

Sorcery is not Necromancy!!!
-by Divayth Fyr

blue_peaceful_Manticore · October 2022

Dr_Con wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

Necromancers being illegal IS immersive, that’s why they’re illegal. I would call the guards if someone summoned undead in front of me too.

i can agree with that. But then, since other classes have none criminal skills.... that break immersion in other classes. Once again... immersion in this game = 0

Sorcery is not Necromancy!!!
-by Divayth Fyr

lol! And because of that all other classes can cast ALL SKILLS in city... but not Necro!? What sence that make!?!?

Amottica · October 2022

EnKor wrote: »

At this point, ESO = SpendMoney in CrownStore!

No one has to spend any money in the crown store. That is a personal choice.

Soarora · October 2022

EnKor wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

Necromancers being illegal IS immersive, that’s why they’re illegal. I would call the guards if someone summoned undead in front of me too.

i can agree with that. But then, since other classes have none criminal skills.... that break immersion in other classes. Once again... immersion in this game = 0

Sorcery is not Necromancy!!!
-by Divayth Fyr

lol! And because of that all other classes can cast ALL SKILLS in city... but not Necro!? What sence that make!?!?

The other classes are legal… the Psijic Order AND Mages Guild both specifically outlawed Necromancy. Conjuration, Destruction (not pointed at any innocent!!), Illusion, etc. are all fine… summoning bones, ghosts, and consuming corpses? Not so much.

Cazador · October 2022

EnKor wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

Necromancers being illegal IS immersive, that’s why they’re illegal. I would call the guards if someone summoned undead in front of me too.

i can agree with that. But then, since other classes have none criminal skills.... that break immersion in other classes. Once again... immersion in this game = 0

Sorcery is not Necromancy!!!
-by Divayth Fyr

lol! And because of that all other classes can cast ALL SKILLS in city... but not Necro!? What sence that make!?!?

Because in the world of tamriel necromancy is super Illegal and seen as one of (if not the most) evil ways to attain power. All of the other classes have magic but none of it (aside from daedric summoning maybe) is seen this way. Nightblades have illusion magic which isn't really seen as bad, maybe irritating at worst, templars straight up have holy magic which is probably looked at positively and the rest have elemental magic which has no particular negative stigma. None of the other classes have the baggage of forcing spirits and corpses to do your will that necromancy has.

blue_peaceful_Manticore · October 2022

Cazador wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

Necromancers being illegal IS immersive, that’s why they’re illegal. I would call the guards if someone summoned undead in front of me too.

i can agree with that. But then, since other classes have none criminal skills.... that break immersion in other classes. Once again... immersion in this game = 0

Sorcery is not Necromancy!!!
-by Divayth Fyr

lol! And because of that all other classes can cast ALL SKILLS in city... but not Necro!? What sence that make!?!?

Because in the world of tamriel necromancy is super Illegal and seen as one of (if not the most) evil ways to attain power. All of the other classes have magic but none of it (aside from daedric summoning maybe) is seen this way. Nightblades have illusion magic which isn't really seen as bad, maybe irritating at worst, templars straight up have holy magic which is probably looked at positively and the rest have elemental magic which has no particular negative stigma. None of the other classes have the baggage of forcing spirits and corpses to do your will that necromancy has.

i can agree with that too. But once agait all kind of Magic is "ilegal outside mages guild" so... unless you use only mages guild skills, them all ok. But all others should be "criminal" too

Cazador · October 2022

EnKor wrote: »

Cazador wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

Necromancers being illegal IS immersive, that’s why they’re illegal. I would call the guards if someone summoned undead in front of me too.

i can agree with that. But then, since other classes have none criminal skills.... that break immersion in other classes. Once again... immersion in this game = 0

Sorcery is not Necromancy!!!
-by Divayth Fyr

lol! And because of that all other classes can cast ALL SKILLS in city... but not Necro!? What sence that make!?!?

Because in the world of tamriel necromancy is super Illegal and seen as one of (if not the most) evil ways to attain power. All of the other classes have magic but none of it (aside from daedric summoning maybe) is seen this way. Nightblades have illusion magic which isn't really seen as bad, maybe irritating at worst, templars straight up have holy magic which is probably looked at positively and the rest have elemental magic which has no particular negative stigma. None of the other classes have the baggage of forcing spirits and corpses to do your will that necromancy has.

i can agree with that too. But once agait all kind of Magic is "ilegal outside mages guild" so... unless you use only mages guild skills, them all ok. But all others should be "criminal" too

Don't know where you get the idea that magic is illegal outside the mages guild. It's never been true in this game nor any other game in the elder scrolls series. There's also places that predated the mages guild that taught magic. As far as I'm aware the only forms of magic that have ever been illegal across all of tamriel
are necromancy and daedric summoning (which isn't even illegal until around the third era).

Stanx · October 2022

I could be wrong as my knowledge of the lore is pretty wanting, but I'm pretty sure the only totally outlawed magic in Tamriel is necromancy and levitation (please correct me if I'm wrong I enjoy learning more about the world). Vampire and Werewolf obviously make sense, too, and it doesn't seem like the way it works in-game needs to change for immersions sake.

Dr_Con · October 2022

summon a Daedra and bind it to your will to kill your enemies and we call it sorcery

capture an Argonian and bind it to your will to work in your kwama mines and we call it slavery

Mage Privilege at its finest

Cazador · October 2022

Stanx wrote: »

I could be wrong as my knowledge of the lore is pretty wanting, but I'm pretty sure the only totally outlawed magic in Tamriel is necromancy and levitation (please correct me if I'm wrong I enjoy learning more about the world). Vampire and Werewolf obviously make sense, too, and it doesn't seem like the way it works in-game needs to change for immersions sake.

Yep you're totally right. The funny thing about levitation is that it happened because bethesda needed a lore reason to not include it in oblivion because it would have broken a ton of stuff

Rex-Umbra · October 2022

I only play Necromancer and am glad there's illegal skills. Would make no sense otherwise. Necromancy is banned by the mages guild it's illegal and taboo in nearly all cultures of tamriel.

blue_peaceful_Manticore · October 2022

RaikaNA · October 2022

Soarora wrote: »

EnKor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

Necromancers being illegal IS immersive, that’s why they’re illegal. I would call the guards if someone summoned undead in front of me too.

Don't be a snitch

WrathOfInnos · October 2022

Immersive or not, this system makes Necromancer less fun and serves only as an inconvenience. It is one of the many reasons I avoid playing the class whenever possible.

Cazador · October 2022

EnKor wrote: »

I can agree to that. It's been an interesting back and forth and you do have some good points. Some of the other classes do have a spell or two being illegal, if not just frowned upon would actually make some sense.
Edit: also having to pay a bounty for using class skills can be frustrating, no disagreement there.

Seminolegirl1992 · October 2022

EnKor wrote: »

It's not a matter up for debate :P Magic is not illegal in Tamriel with the sole exception of necromancy because of the mage's guild. Werewolves and vampires are also not allowed for obvious reasons. This follows elder scrolls lore through to Skyrim. Unless you're breathing fire on innocents, noone cares if you're practicing magic in Tamriel (though in games like Skyrim you might get the occasional "be careful" comment if you're casting something dangerous). Honestly, it was one of the most immersive changes they made to the game, because it made no sense in the past that you could just shift into werewolf form and run through a city and noone would bat an eye. Now they scream "werewolf" and run or attack you. Same thing with certain necromancy skills. People despise necromancy because it's pretty blatantly evil in most cases.

K9002 · October 2022

The bounty system should go further and guards should accost people who walk around with their weapons unsheathed. Though it would require fixing a few skills first, like Radiating Regen. Dueling on the city premises should be a kill on sight offence too.

The better question is why the Undaunted skill line is legal while it's also based on necromancy.

ferago42 · October 2022

Lorewise, the (second) empire outlawed necromancy because, under imperial law, the body and soul of a person are considered private property, even in death, and a necromancer stealing either one without proper authorization violates this principle and is, therefore, a crime. As such, if you pay attention, you'll notice the skills that are marked as criminal are those where you use another person's body (eg. blast bones, skeletal mage) or another person's soul (eg. spirit mender). Which is in line with the imperial law, and frankly was solely designed to add immersion to the game (the fact that ZOS went to all this trouble was outstanding, to be honest). Which is why the whole people of Tamriel is up in arms against the wormcult.

Other classes don't have criminal activities because they are not forbidden. Casting fire or lightning or poisonous breath or a sunbeam is not illegal, because you're not using anybody else's property and are, essentially, harming no one, unless you specifically attack another citizen.

ferago42 · October 2022

Stanx wrote: »

the only totally outlawed magic in Tamriel is necromancy and levitation

They only outlawed levitation at the end of the 3rd era. In ESO, it's either legal, or undiscovered (probably the latter). It certainly was legal around the time of the Nerevarine.

As for necromancy, the practice itself is not illegal, what's illegal is the use of another person's body or soul. That's why the criminal activity skills are limited to those that summon souls (spirit mender) or bodies (blast bones, skeletal mages). And that's why there are characters, like Abnur Tharn and Vastarie, that have actual, working knowledge of necromancy, but are not shunned by society, because they never violate the sanctity of other's body & soul. In fact, Vastarie will hint you at this, if you complete the Ossuary of Telacar before Laeloria (Grahtwood), and then again in the Ashen Scar (Northern Elsweyr).

Nomadic_Atmoran · October 2022

EnKor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

You think its immersive to be dropping necromancer spells around civilians that are deathly afraid of them?

Vevvev · October 2022

Stanx wrote: »

I could be wrong as my knowledge of the lore is pretty wanting, but I'm pretty sure the only totally outlawed magic in Tamriel is necromancy and levitation (please correct me if I'm wrong I enjoy learning more about the world). Vampire and Werewolf obviously make sense, too, and it doesn't seem like the way it works in-game needs to change for immersions sake.

Pretty much!

Reason why Necromancy is outlawed, @EnKor , is because it's manipulating and enslaving the soul of the dead being summoned.

Why is this bad? Well these souls are actual people chilling in the afterlife and you just wrenched them out and enslaved them! Sometimes even destroys the soul or traps it in a black soul gem and then exchanges that soul for power by the Ideal Masters in the Soul Cairn.

Imagine dying, being in Sovengard, drinking with your grandfather you missed so much, and suddenly you're torn out of the paradise, stuffed into your rotting corpse, and then forced to fight your son. That's horrific and the citizens of Tamriel are not dumb like in other RPGs. They know what Necromancy really is, and are paranoid about if for good reason.

Werewolves and Vampires are crimes to because they feed on the living or kill people, and like Necromancy the victims of these curses can have their souls trapped in Oblivion for all time. Nobody wants those they love being turned into monsters and then having their souls dragged into Oblivion never to been seen or heard from again.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2022

EnKor wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Don't use the skills that incur a bounty then. Not every skill in the kit incurs a bounty.

yeah. That fix immersion! lol

Are you really making an immersion argument? You are a freaking necromancer. Of course summoning the dead in town is going to get guards to come after you. It would be immersion breaking to not get chased out of town. LOL.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Immersive or not, this system makes Necromancer less fun and serves only as an inconvenience. It is one of the many reasons I avoid playing the class whenever possible.

You certainly arent wrong, and I find necros annoying to play for many reasons, this being one of them. I just don't think immersion should be the bedrock of OPs argument.

Carcamongus · October 2022

In pretty much all TES games necromancers are dangerous enemies. How in blazes is it immersion-breaking for some of their activities to be criminal offenses in ESO??

FluffyReachWitch · October 2022

Ethics and various laws aside, Tamriel at this time is in the middle of an ongoing crisis instigated by an extremely dangerous necromancer and his army of cultists. So that's certainly not going to help the image of a perfectly friendly necromancer who just wants to raise some people's skeletons in the middle of town.