2 steps forward 10 steps back, now you're helping gold sellers and bots!

pulversoppa · May 2014

thomas.manzellaub17_ESO wrote: »

I'll put in how a actually think this should be handled. To solve any issues that are causing confusion. Some people are obviously confused...

As soon as there are more than 3 people camping a boss it should be bumped up to dungeon boss lvl/difficulty. Give better loot and exp.

As soon as there are more than 8 people camping a boss it should pull the whole room with it and the mobs should be stronger than usual. The boss should stay at 4 man dungeon difficulty. Anyone who kills a mob or the boss gets the tag.

As soon as there are 10+ people there the boss should be raid lvl and give even better loot, and exp.

As soon as 15+ people are there the mobs should be empowered to the level that the boss starts out at. mobs now drop better loot, and give more exp.

At 20+ it should be a full 20-24 man raid boss for its level and at 26+ people the adds should be as strong as "world bosses". All drop amazing raid quality loot(adds less than the boss) for the level of the boss/dungeon.

Why? Cause it solves the problem in a fun way. Who doesn't want world raid bosses that are based of the amount of people there? Not in a raid group? Who cares just jump in and tag it. If you get the tag you get the loot. When people leave it goes back to normal.

Turn camping into a pick up mini-raid and love it!

This is actually a really neat and wonderful idea that at least I can only think positively about. Sure, I might stay around a little longer then, but the cravings to see new regions and advance in the quests will get me moving.

Also I'm terrified I'll be smashed by bosses now because there's no one around getting something good out of helping me. Sure I could group with someone, but still, I love how you can PvE solo with other people PvEing solo, but helping eachother out simultaneously, and without the need to coordinate the group and so on.

Removing looting opportunity doesn't seem like the right way to get rid of bots.

+ it's INSANITY that if you're in one dungeon killing a boss and then go out and find another small dungeon beside it you might not get loot from that boss because you or your horse sprint so fast..... The timer should be locked to that specific boss, if they should even remain.

nez · May 2014

By the very way, do they specify how long those "several minutes" is? Because judging from their maintenance info "several hours" turns to be "half a day" quite often.

dumbo · May 2014

Probably the best example of why this thread exists is Angry Joe's video.

He walks into the final boss battle when exploring a delve, to see a pile of corpses and players waiting around to gank it when it respawns.

To put it mildly that isn't what players were supposed to be doing, and the situation has certainly caused people to quit the game.

Suggesting that it needed to be left in that state is silly.

---

But, the game is generally a complete mess when it comes to loot:
- blue items from soloing basically only come from delve boss loot, which has been nerfed.
- the next most common blue items are found by looting NPC homes, and can't be DEs anyway o_O.
- PvP? if you need green vendor-bait for something then PvP delivers

.
- chests? 1 in 50 chests seems to be "master", other chests contain green vendor-bait.

Flashy_Senap · May 2014

I love farming manually at these dungeons. Its somewhat meditating to me. I'm sad to see that go, which I believe will only affect the actual players. But I don't mind them changing this since it's kind of a weird method to gain items adn crafting skill...

But If they're gonna do this, I would like to see some balancing in this matter. Normal mobs in the world drops way to few items for crafting. armor, weapons, greens, blues etc... Its almost none existent. The dungeons are the only places for me to find these crafting items... This will have a great impact upon my crafting progression which is annoyingly slow already... And the hirelings... Useless!

I'm super sick of questing (overexposure,) and there is very little else to do so I turn to farming for my crafting skills but now that joy has been snuffed out as well... What Am I to do now?

Censorious · May 2014

I'm glad it's gone. I'm no fan of 'immersion' but it ruined any fun to be had out of these dungeons to find a bunch of high level farmers camping every boss in a pile of bodies so that you couldn't even get a damaging hit.

Worse thing was the dungeon would 'complete' for you even though you got no loot. Sometimes you wouldn't even see the boss - all you got was the congratulatory message. Insult to injury.

Flashy_Senap · May 2014

Censorious wrote: »

I'm glad it's gone. I'm no fan of 'immersion' but it ruined any fun to be had out of these dungeons to find a bunch of high level farmers camping every boss in a pile of bodies so that you couldn't even get a damaging hit.

Worse thing was the dungeon would 'complete' for you even though you got no loot. Sometimes you wouldn't even see the boss - all you got was the congratulatory message. Insult to injury.

I just logged in and now I just found the whole dungeon part to be... pointless!? they might as well turn it into a group instance instead, because there's no joy in running there solo anyway...

One of the few things that didn't force me to quest is now gone to... What to do in the game now?!

methjester · May 2014

I think now if you want gold, just keep searching through people's drawers and cabinets and shout at the top of your lungs at what you found. Upon other people hearing you scream, they will buy your ill gotten gains. Immersion!!!

Also, this is pretty much the only way.

ThePedroKid · May 2014

It's very unfortunate that this change has completely destroyed public dungeons as viable for most players.

While ridiculous that you could farm a boss over and over, it was the only way for many players to accumulate the massive amounts of mats it takes to level crafting and the even more massive amount of gold it takes to buy the storage you need to hold those mats.

That said, the system was broke and did need fixing. This fix was just not the right solution. Particularly the 'global' effect of it.

The result? No one is in the public dungeons now. You go in and you can very easily be the only person in there. You have no help killing trash nor the boss. Only a select few players can handle such a situation. The whole promise of public dungeons was that you would _not_ need to find a dedicated group and organize... It would be organic. Now, it is not. They are ESO's first bit of wasted content due to developer inability to see the big picture and put adequate solutions in place prior to making such a change.

To those who complained so vocally without offering a proper, broader, solution than just changing the timers... Be careful what you wish for because you may not like the fact that now instead of at least having a chance to get the achievement or the boss kill loot, you may very well have none because you are all alone and it's not all solo capable content for many people. Better find a group but without the benefit of the LFG tool.

grrzoot2020b14_ESO · May 2014

you know the logic in this right guys? It's a temporary measure to help them weed out more botters.
Less people camping one mob because it's not worth it to wait ten minutes?
Check how many people there are farming that mob= find accounts, probably the same one=ban
banned account loses all money gold etc he paid 60 bucks for
after awhile, they lose money, they stop.

Most likely all these bosses were mean to be on a longer timer, like the one on more established mmos. But seeing the size of the server pop they increased there spawn times so people could complete the quests that gives them the main xp and skill points and achievements.
And that's probably more along the line of how they intended it.Most likely if they find, from camping, bosses that are giving out x value per hour as an outlier they will most likely tone that down as well.

I would say for now, do the boss, the area and move on, experience more of the conent, and give it some time. Heck the free month isn't even up yet.

Enundr · May 2014

grrzoot2020b14_ESO wrote: »

you know the logic in this right guys? It's a temporary measure to help them weed out more botters.
Less people camping one mob because it's not worth it to wait ten minutes?
Check how many people there are farming that mob= find accounts, probably the same one=ban
banned account loses all money gold etc he paid 60 bucks for
after awhile, they lose money, they stop.

Most likely all these bosses were mean to be on a longer timer, like the one on more established mmos. But seeing the size of the server pop they increased there spawn times so people could complete the quests that gives them the main xp and skill points and achievements.
And that's probably more along the line of how they intended it.Most likely if they find, from camping, bosses that are giving out x value per hour as an outlier they will most likely tone that down as well.

I would say for now, do the boss, the area and move on, experience more of the conent, and give it some time. Heck the free month isn't even up yet.

how about this , seeing the general IQ / patience of the average gamer , with one source (the most common / easy source) of loot/gold taken away from them pushes them further towards buying said gold and services , further giving the botters more $ and a hacked account. this is not the way to handle bots , its the worst way in fact as bots move on to non delvs and go into open world where they can keep us from harvesting nodes , general mob kills , etc.

e.gamemarkb14_ESO · May 2014

Enundr wrote: »

General Rule of thumb after seeing how GW2 treated this subject NEVER SCREW WITH DROPS , didnt stop botters , WONT stop botters , never will stop botters. only hurts the player base , not the bots. hopefully this decision does a complete reversal before they lose more subscribers......if not well , youve made your bed zennimax , this is your first and only warning.

Hmmm, first and only warning? Um, ok...lol

It sounds like a lot of players who complain here, never played any of the Elder Scroll games, or expect this mmo to be like all the other spoon fed games? Maybe they never intended for players to "farm bosses" for unlimited blue item drops in short periods of time to RE and get unlimited upgrade resources.

This change is for the better, as it makes items worth more, and crafters abilities to craft higher tiered items in more demand. This change will require more interaction with, you know, that "multiplayer" element in the mmo part of things ;-)

Join trade guilds, run Veteran dungeons and learn how to interact with other players. They have fixed the loot drops for veteran dungeons, they will drop decent loot. It is going to take real time to get your blue and purple tempers, that is part of what the personal assistant passive in each crafting profession is for, to help out in getting them over time.

It's nice to see changes and requirements to be more "social" in an online game. If I wanted to grind bosses and loot all day, I know of several other mmo games that cater to that play style.

Lkory · May 2014

Sure the 3 first time in the dungeon might be a challenge....the next 70 runs will be trivial at best

Andi

e.gamemarkb14_ESO wrote: »

Enundr wrote: »

General Rule of thumb after seeing how GW2 treated this subject NEVER SCREW WITH DROPS , didnt stop botters , WONT stop botters , never will stop botters. only hurts the player base , not the bots. hopefully this decision does a complete reversal before they lose more subscribers......if not well , youve made your bed zennimax , this is your first and only warning.

Hmmm, first and only warning? Um, ok...lol

It sounds like a lot of players who complain here, never played any of the Elder Scroll games, or expect this mmo to be like all the other spoon fed games? Maybe they never intended for players to "farm bosses" for unlimited blue item drops in short periods of time to RE and get unlimited upgrade resources.

This change is for the better, as it makes items worth more, and crafters abilities to craft higher tiered items in more demand. This change will require more interaction with, you know, that "multiplayer" element in the mmo part of things ;-)

Join trade guilds, run Veteran dungeons and learn how to interact with other players. They have fixed the loot drops for veteran dungeons, they will drop decent loot. It is going to take real time to get your blue and purple tempers, that is part of what the personal assistant passive in each crafting profession is for, to help out in getting them over time.

It's nice to see changes and requirements to be more "social" in an online game. If I wanted to grind bosses and loot all day, I know of several other mmo games that cater to that play style.

Dungeons are trivial at best after 2-3 runs. Social, you mean like WoW, queue, clear the dungeon and dont say a word, rinse and repeat?

Actually loot timer is more social, you got time to chat, even farming without loot timer is. I actually met a few peeps farming in VR solo dungeons.

Magdalina · May 2014

I don't think farming bosses til your bag fills is such a hot idea, it does sound a bit...wrong, to me. However, as a crafter, I enjoyed getting those blues. Not 10 or 20 or til my bag fills, but one-two to then continue with my adventures. I don't need them to death so I won't stand around for 10 mins or whatever for a CHANCE to get them - I tend to be ridiculously unlucky with those, anyway, often got blues on like 5th try so...what...50 mins? No thank you, I'll find smth better to do with my time. But I am sad because for me it means I get NOTHING for beating a boss and doing the cave. I don't even get to know what the boss drops - and yes, I want to know, I'm curious. I also want to have it, crafting aside, it gives a sense of accomplishment.
Bots were ridiculous. From what I see, no bots now, good. But no loot either. Bad.
A solution workable for me, personally, would be the loot counter setting on after first blue drop. I'd get the loot, I wouldn't be able to farm it unless I absolutely and totally needed it in which case I'd hang around to maybe get more. I was actually kinda hoping maybe that's what they'd do but apparently not. Goodbye, blue caves loot=(

Also, I don't even want to think what this could do to public dungeons. Unlike normal caves, these are actually complicated and very hard, if possible at all, to solo. And for all your attempts there you get....nothing? Really? This thing shouldn't even concern publics at all, I don't remember any bots there>.<

Alpha_Protocol · May 2014

It takes a few hours to level at most... Why are you farming for "hours" in order to be able to gear "for your level"... Farming a broken and ridiculous mechanic (instant spawning bosses) was bulls h i t.... get over it.

Enundr · May 2014

im sorry alpha , i thought i was playing an mmo where i did stuff for loot , im clearly in the wrong game if i thought this was an mmo <end sarcasm>

Flashy_Senap · May 2014

Hmmm, first and only warning? Um, ok...lol

It sounds like a lot of players who complain here, never played any of the Elder Scroll games, or expect this mmo to be like all the other spoon fed games? Maybe they never intended for players to "farm bosses" for unlimited blue item drops in short periods of time to RE and get unlimited upgrade resources.

This change is for the better, as it makes items worth more, and crafters abilities to craft higher tiered items in more demand. This change will require more interaction with, you know, that "multiplayer" element in the mmo part of things ;-)

Join trade guilds, run Veteran dungeons and learn how to interact with other players. They have fixed the loot drops for veteran dungeons, they will drop decent loot. It is going to take real time to get your blue and purple tempers, that is part of what the personal assistant passive in each crafting profession is for, to help out in getting them over time.

It's nice to see changes and requirements to be more "social" in an online game. If I wanted to grind bosses and loot all day, I know of several other mmo games that cater to that play style.

I miss farming in dungeons. And When I played Skyrim, you know what I did there? I farmed!
Maybe it wasn't in the same manor but I did the same collecting routine. I enjoy that ***, and I want to be able to do so. I'm okay with dungeons not being the hotspot for farming, but since u almost never get stuff from general mobs, it is more interesting to farm the bosses. I didn't farm for blues all the time, I farmed for whites. And that was the only fun part with dungeons. now it's just a meaningless choir like everything else. I do not enjoy that my plays tyle gets limited in this manor...

and No... blue item isn't worth more, all items you find are bleak compared to what you can craft. most items you find is at best mats for your skill progression. The only thing that might be useful are the epic items you find, all else I can craft better versions of.

And with so little else to do for fun in this game, well at least if you're like me and find questing to be the most boring thing ever atm, there isn't much this game offers... I don't even feel the roleplaying aspect of this game, which is sad since I thought this would be THE game where you would be able to roleplay...

Alpha_Protocol · May 2014

Enundr wrote: »

im sorry alpha , i thought i was playing an mmo where i did stuff for loot , im clearly in the wrong game if i thought this was an mmo <end sarcasm>

I understand people want "drive-through" convenience in MMO'S these days.

Maybe the devs will eventually let you guys buy an instant-level-I-win-game-over service in the yolo-swag shop. Then you can just move on to the next all-you-can-eat cheetohs buffet.

Kangas · May 2014

Op does not realize he is no different from a bot.

ChairGraveyard · May 2014

All you guys in favor of this global lockout timer will change your tune once they move it onto regular mobs in a bid to stop the bots that have moved from farming bosses onto AoE farming.

Obviously loot should be removed from the game, that's the *real* problem /s

Enundr · May 2014

Alpha_Protocol wrote: »

Enundr wrote: »

im sorry alpha , i thought i was playing an mmo where i did stuff for loot , im clearly in the wrong game if i thought this was an mmo <end sarcasm>

I understand people want "drive-through" convenience in MMO'S these days.

Maybe the devs will eventually let you guys buy an instant-level-I-win-game-over service in the yolo-swag shop. Then you can just move on to the next all-you-can-eat cheetohs buffet.

lol and that has what to do with mmos? ;-P or video games in general =P

Enundr · May 2014

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

All you guys in favor of this global lockout timer will change your tune once they move it onto regular mobs in a bid to stop the bots that have moved from farming bosses onto AoE farming.

Obviously loot should be removed from the game, that's the *real* problem /s

at this point i wont waste my breath trying to tell them , they have their heads so far up their backsides......a brick wall would get the hint of whats coming compared to them......sad to say...>.< but we can watch as the game dies as they try to make it more single player oriented that you still pay to play online , all for the sake of stopping bots and "campers" , even though camping isnt a new concept for an mmo , neither are ALOT of things in the game already , but meh well see how this turns out if they dont reverse the loot lockout

thomas.manzellaub17_ESO · May 2014

Kangas wrote: »

Op does not realize he is no different from a bot.

I too, sometimes, read only the first couple sentences of a thread and then make a post on my assumption of what's going on...

Read my posts. I'm nothing like a bot. I could care less about changing dungeons and the way bosses are killed. As long as they do it in a fun and engaging way. Anyone who supports lulnerflootz is a fool. There are a hundred better ways they could have gone about this. Hell, a flat respawn timer would have been better than a loot lockout.

HashxBrowns · May 2014

Honestly the change is not that big of deal. I get so much loot doing quests that farming these bosses is not needed. Also I do solo dungeons on my way to quests. while questing if I get close to one I'll go in and do it, by the time i get to the next one I am good to go. I like what they did, it was kinda cheap being able to sit there and farm a boss for a few hours and get a blue and 1 soul gem each drop. I am happy about the changes! Now i can go into a solo dungeon and kill the boss no problem, when before i would go in and be lucky if i got a hit or two so i could complete the dungeon.

Adrastes · May 2014

you touched my loot, now i will touch your money. by canceling subscription.