Idea: Outlaws Auction House

DDiggler · October 2022

A global auction house that can be accessed from every outlaws refuge. Every player can auction 1 item weekly(so guild traders wont be affected by it) with the base price they want.

Bids are deducted from inventory, can not be reversed and mailed back once someone outbids them which also notifies the bidder.

You can only bid once every X minutes on an item to avoid spam and last second bid fights.

2% listing fee, 10% auction fee(lost to the game) and stolen items can be auctioned as well.

Items are mailed to the highest bidder with the trader swaps.

If noone matches the base price item is returned to the lister.

What do you think

Kingsindarkness · October 2022

Or...we can say goodbye to Guild auction houses forever and set up a normal Auction house in several main cities.

Danikat · October 2022

I'd like to be able to sell items by auction, whether it's separate to the guild trader system or part of it.

I'm a fairly casual player and not at all interested in making the virtual economy into my second job, so even with trade addons to give estimated prices it can be difficult to get an idea of what something is worth, especially for new items where there's not much data yet.

I'd love to be able to stick them up for auction with a low starting price and just wait and see what they eventually sell for, rather than trying to guess at a reasonable price and risking losing out or the item never selling.

DDiggler · October 2022

Ehh this thread quickly attracted a group of individuals who arent happy with the trading system. I like guild traders. This is just a little fun idea

opalcity · October 2022

Would love it if they got rid of guild trading and had a centralised trading/auction house.
No need to go running around ten different cities looking for the one thing you want. Anyone is able to sell anything with an equal chance of it being sold.
Everyone has to pay a percentage fee to be able to sell anything so a gold sink still happens.

Danikat · October 2022

DDiggler wrote: »

Ehh this thread quickly attracted a group of individuals who arent happy with the trading system. I like guild traders. This is just a little fun idea

Since there were only 2 replies at that point I assume you're including me in that 'group'. I thought I'd managed to word my post to avoid that assumption but clearly not. I am not saying I want to get rid of the guild trader system (IMO that's a separate discussion), just that I'd like a different way to price items - exactly the same one you suggested. I'd like to be able to auction items off so I don't have to decide the final price.

For example a while ago I got a full motif book as a random drop. Because I'm not in any actual trading guilds ATT had no data for it and TTC had a very wide range of prices with very few data points, so I felt like my options were to list it at the lower end of TTC's range and risk losing out on literally millions of gold (which is a lot for me) or list it at a higher price - spending a significant chunk of my current gold on the listing fee - and risk it never selling and then I'd have to pay more to list it again.

I'd love to have been able to put it up for auction with a starting price at (or below) the lower end of TTC's recommendations and then let the buyers decide the final price. That way both I and the buyer could get a reasonable price without me having to know up front exactly what it's worth.

I actually tried suggesting this once before but even though I was careful to make no mention of a global system, specified it would be done through guild traders and avoided using the word 'auction' the first few replies called it that, understandably because that is the real-world name for that sales format, and then everyone after that assumed I was suggesting replacing guild traders with the trading system from WoW (which as far as I know is the only game to call it an 'auction house') and started objecting to that even though it was nothing at all to do with what I'd suggested.

If even someone making the same suggestion makes that assumption, having specified in your own first post that this would be a global system separate from guild traders, I can see why it's so hard for anyone else to understand that selling things by auction does not have to be a copy of whatever else WoW tacked onto that system.

DDiggler · October 2022

Danikat wrote: »

DDiggler wrote: »

Ehh this thread quickly attracted a group of individuals who arent happy with the trading system. I like guild traders. This is just a little fun idea

Since there were only 2 replies at that point I assume you're including me in that 'group'. I thought I'd managed to word my post to avoid that assumption but clearly not. I am not saying I want to get rid of the guild trader system (IMO that's a separate discussion), just that I'd like a different way to price items - exactly the same one you suggested. I'd like to be able to auction items off so I don't have to decide the final price.

For example a while ago I got a full motif book as a random drop. Because I'm not in any actual trading guilds ATT had no data for it and TTC had a very wide range of prices with very few data points, so I felt like my options were to list it at the lower end of TTC's range and risk losing out on literally millions of gold (which is a lot for me) or list it at a higher price - spending a significant chunk of my current gold on the listing fee - and risk it never selling and then I'd have to pay more to list it again.

I'd love to have been able to put it up for auction with a starting price at (or below) the lower end of TTC's recommendations and then let the buyers decide the final price. That way both I and the buyer could get a reasonable price without me having to know up front exactly what it's worth.

I actually tried suggesting this once before but even though I was careful to make no mention of a global system, specified it would be done through guild traders and avoided using the word 'auction' the first few replies called it that, understandably because that is the real-world name for that sales format, and then everyone after that assumed I was suggesting replacing guild traders with the trading system from WoW (which as far as I know is the only game to call it an 'auction house') and started objecting to that even though it was nothing at all to do with what I'd suggested.

If even someone making the same suggestion makes that assumption, having specified in your own first post that this would be a global system separate from guild traders, I can see why it's so hard for anyone else to understand that selling things by auction does not have to be a copy of whatever else WoW tacked onto that system.

Agreed. I see too many wts bubbles in chat especially during the undaunted event. The idea i posted provides people without a guild an option to sell a spesific rare and valuable item without having to do research also without shifting the entire system towards central auctions.

Also i was not trying to bash people i just did not like it that people immediately proposed to abolish traders instead of talking about the post i made.

Athyrium93 · October 2022

I really like that idea, especially if it is VERY limited in the number of Items you can auction per week (Like you said) Just seems like a solid way to move really expensive and/or rare Items. I'd much prefer something like this being added in a new chapter rather than a new mini game. I'd even be happy to run some quests to unlock it or something like that.

IsharaMeradin · October 2022

Instead of a system that requires other players to bid on an item, why not the reverse? List an item for a high price and if it does not sell after X time, reduce it by Y amount and continue that until it gets sold or no longer worth being listed. Sure, that could be done now if one were in a guild that could maintain a trader. Unfortunately, if the guild leader stops playing for whatever reason, that guild can no longer get a trader. And my experience has been that very few players actually purchase within their own guild unless they have an actual trader stall somewhere.

Furthermore, I want a separate NPC trader that anyone can use (one not tied to a guild) to sell their stuff. It does not have to be global, a few per zone is fine. Let's call them a consignment trader. I'll gladly take reduced amount of sale slots, reduced amount of sale days and increased fees to use a trader that anyone can purchase from without having to tie myself to a guild that cannot guarantee having a publicly available trader.

redlink1979 · October 2022

Auction house? No.

Holycannoli · October 2022

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

Or...we can say goodbye to Guild auction houses forever and set up a normal Auction house in several main cities.

They have to come up with other gold sinks then, but I agree. I don't like the idea of needing to be in a guild to access limited auctions.

Freelancer_ESO · October 2022

I'd question if the implementation effort would be worth the benefits in the current implementation.

I would assume the users of listings would be people with no guild access and people with rare items that are in demand.

The thing is, the people with no guild access are going to need to list their items significantly below the Guild Trader rate to get people to buy their items as the buyer is stuck waiting to get them.

To break even compared to a Guild Trader listing a rare item, you need to sell it for more than 4% above what it would sell for at a Guild Trader so, the system is only going to work out for you if you attract bids.

If it doesn't get a bid, listing it just cost you as much as it would have cost to list on a Guild Trader for two months.

The thing is, the incentive to bid outside of the end of the auction is relatively low in your implementation unless you aren't going to be on anywhere near the time the auction ends.

Further, on PC with the addons that let you search multiple Guild Traders very few items are actually useful and rare.

You'll also ram into the issue that some players have multiple accounts so they will be able to bid multiple times in the last few minutes unless you implement efforts to block that.

Finally, many Guild Traders are in the position of losing money or barely breaking even and removing a portion of the big ticket items could have an impact on their finances.

DDiggler · October 2022

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

I'd question if the implementation effort would be worth the benefits in the current implementation.

I would assume the users of listings would be people with no guild access and people with rare items that are in demand.

The thing is, the people with no guild access are going to need to list their items significantly below the Guild Trader rate to get people to buy their items as the buyer is stuck waiting to get them.

To break even compared to a Guild Trader listing a rare item, you need to sell it for more than 4% above what it would sell for at a Guild Trader so, the system is only going to work out for you if you attract bids.

If it doesn't get a bid, listing it just cost you as much as it would have cost to list on a Guild Trader for two months.

The thing is, the incentive to bid outside of the end of the auction is relatively low in your implementation unless you aren't going to be on anywhere near the time the auction ends.

Further, on PC with the addons that let you search multiple Guild Traders very few items are actually useful and rare.

You'll also ram into the issue that some players have multiple accounts so they will be able to bid multiple times in the last few minutes unless you implement efforts to block that.

Finally, many Guild Traders are in the position of losing money or barely breaking even and removing a portion of the big ticket items could have an impact on their finances.

All valid points. Thx for sparing the time to comment on this

kargen27 · October 2022

Might be fun if it were only items that have been stolen.

Tandor · October 2022

I don't think a system where you could only list a single item would take off. Certainly if it were based in the Outlaws Refuges then it would need to involve "dodgy" goods.

As an alternative, I have long argued for the existing guild traders to be complemented in the main city locations by an NPC trader who would accept a small number of items at a higher commission rate than normal but with the commission shared between the guilds trading in those locations.

Not only would this assist casual traders who can't justify joining a trading guild, or low level players more generally as the present system pretty much excludes them, but it would also assist those players whose guilds hadn't got a trader that particular week. It would not compete with trading guilds who would take revenue from it.

It could also involve a tutorial quest introducing new players to trading guilds.

kargen27 · October 2022

"or low level players more generally as the present system pretty much excludes them"

this is the only part I would argue. I started a new/first character on the EU server so I would have one character to get achievements on untainted by other characters. I was able to join a trade guild when my character was close to level 10. They have no dues and understand the EU server isn't my main server so I won't be super active. I got a couple of really lucky drops and was able to max out my inventory with the gold I made selling the items.

I would argue the system doesn't exclude players but some players choose not to participate.

Otherwise I could get behind this idea.

Tandor · October 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

"or low level players more generally as the present system pretty much excludes them"

this is the only part I would argue. I started a new/first character on the EU server so I would have one character to get achievements on untainted by other characters. I was able to join a trade guild when my character was close to level 10. They have no dues and understand the EU server isn't my main server so I won't be super active. I got a couple of really lucky drops and was able to max out my inventory with the gold I made selling the items.

I would argue the system doesn't exclude players but some players choose not to participate.

Otherwise I could get behind this idea.

The reasons I made that point are two-fold.

First, trading guilds are generally geared around high-volume and high-level items based on farming, so that new players are not really suited to them. Although you had a new character on the EU server you weren't a new player and probably had considerable trading experience with higher level characters on the US server. It's possible that you already had contacts in the EU guild from a sister guild on the US server although I don't claim that nor is it particularly important although it does make it a lot easier for experienced trading guild members when switching servers. It's not so much that new players choose not to participate, more that the image of trading guilds as "I make millions each week" isn't geared to them and there's no way to show them how the system works. My suggested tutorial would do that.

Second, prices on the guild traders are ridiculous for the sort of things that low level players would be interested in, such as basic crafting materials and the various fishing baits. Add in the need to travel through zones the new player hasn't been to yet to even find the best traders (I've never once found what I was looking for in the starting cities, for example) and it becomes practically impossible for low-level players to be buyers in the present system.

I accept that the present system doesn't totally exclude low level players, whether as buyers or sellers, but it deters them greatly which is why I said it "pretty much" excludes them.

newtinmpls · October 2022

I hate and loathe the global AH; it's hard enough to get decent prices before the compulsive-botters buy up and flip everything they can already.

That being said, I do think if done in a fun way It could be an interesting idea.

There are already guild trader spots in outlaw dens, so ideally it should not be anything that wrecks them.

So, how about a Pawn Shop?
This could be sort of folded into moneylenders, or could be a separate thing.

Restriction #1 limited only to items that are stolen and laundered
Restriction #2 your ability to post items is limited to your the total of your 1/2 your Assassin's guild rank, 1/2 your thieves guild rank and your Legerdemain rank (so a max of 6+5+20=31). Yes, this does give a bit of an advantage to folks who own those DLC's but not a huge one.

Plus, if you don't own or use either, why are you down here? **twirls knife meaningfully**

SilverIce58 · October 2022

I like that idea, as it gives an added layer of effect as its like going against the established buying/selling system, much like how a black market works. Anyone can sell anything (that can already be sold) and they wouldnt have to pay a trader for it or join a guild. I'd up it to like 10 slots tho, just because the guild traders get 30, and 10 feels like a good smaller number but not too small. They could introduce it as Tamriel's Black Market or something.

Dr_Con · October 2022

The Guild Traders in Outlaws Refuge would like to know your location

Amottica · October 2022

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

I'd question if the implementation effort would be worth the benefits in the current implementation.

This is the second thing Zenimax would consider if they got past the first. Considering I doubt they would see it as good for the game I doubt they even get to the point they consider if it is worth the effort to implement it.

kargen27 · October 2022

"It's possible that you already had contacts in the EU guild from a sister guild on the US server although I don't claim that nor is it particularly important although it does make it a lot easier for experienced trading guild members when switching servers."
I don't want to hijack the thread but I am trying to play the character I created on the EU server much the same way I did my very first character. I am staying away from friends and guild mates on purpose so I don't get tempted to use them as a crutch.
Your point is taken though that I do have a very good understanding of how the trading system works and wasn't intimidated at all in joining a trade guild. A new player might find that daunting at the start or might think they won't have anything to sell.

And you are right things can be expensive for new players. I wanted to fish as I go and I had to buy worms. All the other bait I can find easy enough but again I know where to look. Most the expenses though are wants and not really needs.

As an aside the guild I joined seems really active outside of just trading. I've run a few random dungeons with them but not many as I kind of want to go slow. They have also several times offered to make me armor or send me food. I decline because it doesn't really fit what I am doing with this character.

Enough with my tangent I suppose. I've been adamantly opposed to changing the trade system but your idea seems a good compromise. I did suggest a bulletin board in the major city of each zone. That board would list everything all the traders in that zone have. It would not include prices only location. You would then need to go to the trader with the item to purchase. Players that want something quick and don't care the price could go to most convenient location with the item. Bargain hunters are going to have to visit all the traders that have the item for the best deal. THis allows the players that enjoy flipping items to still have that opportunity. I think it would probably be to much a tax on the server though tracking everything?

FluffWit · October 2022

I mean no offense here guys, maybe I'm missing something and it's not a terrible idea. But heres how I see this going in my head....

So I go to the outlaws refugee.... why is this thing in Outlaws refugee? That's hardly convenient. Oh never mind, that's not important, it gets so much more inconvenient that won't really be an issue...

And I want, say.... well it would have to be something bloody rare or expensive considering how inconvenient this going to be.... let's say I want a Powerful Assault Ice Staff defending trait. Oh cool, theres currently 56 listed in auctions..... wait only two of those auctions end in the next couple of hours guess I'll go with one of those. Ooh theres one with a current price of 375k, I knows it like 450k in town so I guess I'll bid 376k on this one. 113 minutes until auction ends..... I guess I'll set an alarm on my phone and go to Cyrodiil for a bit....

103 minutes later

*Alarm goes off* "Wth!?!..... oh right, the auction..... best get back to the Outlaws refugee.... why do I have to go to the Outlaws refugee? This is kinda inconvenient.... couldn't they have just used the bank? Oh well, never mind, back to the refugee.... oh darn, I got outbid, it's up to 440k.... guess I'll bid 441k.... now to sit here for 8 more minutes hoping I don't get outbid...... I didnt! Sweet! I saved 9k on those darn traders! And it only took.... best not to think about that, its mine now!

Meanwhile in another part of Tamriel someone elses mail chime pops! Ooh nice, my staff sold! For roughly what I could have gotten in a trader!.... do I have anything else rare or expensive to sell?.... I guess I could throw up a stack of Dragon Rheum, I'll probably get roughly what I could get in the trader.... with the added fun of a trip to the refugee! And the added convenience of waiting 48 hours for my auction to close!

FluffWit · October 2022

Slightly related to the core premise here- on Playstation NA theres actually a really strong auction community already. The community organizes the auctions themselves and polices them themselves. They've been going for years and different auctions are organized by different people most every day. It works great for the very small part of the community that enjoys doing it.

I'd suggest y'all look around and see if a similar community exists on your servers.

Castagere · October 2022

I like the OP's idea. I'll take anything over this Guild Trader system.

ziggy29 · October 2022

I sort of like the guild trader system, BUT I think it should be possible to sell items to other players without having to join a guild. Until I started selling more actively in a guild, I really didn't like the system. And while I think it's OK now, a lot of folks don't.

So is there a way to do such a thing? Well.... maybe. Just like the "smuggler" will buy stolen items anywhere when summoned (with a 35% price cut), maybe something like a "outlaw trading company" could be a place where (for a higher sales commission) folks could sell their wares to other players outside of a guild. There would also be lower limits for the number of items one could list at a time (for example, 10-15 instead of 30 per guild).

Just like you could sell stolen items directly to a fence but could instead choose to take less sales proceeds from the smuggler, you could choose to take less profit (after expenses) selling outside of a guild structure. What would the cut be for such an "outlaw's trading post"? I don't know but for sake of discussion, say 15-20%? Higher fees would still leave incentives for selling in a guild intact, but would at least be an option for people who don't want to join a guild or sell through a guild.

IMO this would preserve the guild trading structure, keep the incentive for trading guilds in place, AND would still allow the unguilded to have a way to sell their stuff (albeit for less after fees). I know it's not perfect, but I don't know that a perfect solution exists.

MaraxusTheOrc · October 2022

Hard pass on any sort of global auction house.

ziggy29 · October 2022

FluffWit wrote: »

So I go to the outlaws refugee.... why is this thing in Outlaws refugee? That's hardly convenient. Oh never mind, that's not important, it gets so much more inconvenient that won't really be an issue...

It doesn't need to be there. But I think you could add a storyline tie to it -- that political forces that be have required that the trading guilds be the legal means of commerce in Tamriel. But as always, there is a shady element looking to get around it! For a price, of course (and part of that price is bribing the right people to look the other way). That way you could spin the story as to why they are in these Outlaws refuges -- the underground looking to get around the system for a profit.

That said, it could be anywhere -- maybe one such designated trader in each zone, for example. But I hated the guild trader system for years -- I almost quit entirely because of it -- and have recently come to (mostly) like it once I understood it and learned how to participate in it. I do know that in the time I hated it and wasn't much in a trading guild (if at all), it would have been nice to have a way to sell my stuff to other players, rather than vendor it for peanuts or deconstruct everything. I think such a trading network, like the guild stores but with a lower number of items to sell and a higher sales fee, could largely be acceptable to both those who want to preserve the trading guild system and those who want a way to sell outside of the guilds.

And I am also a convert in terms of agreeing with those saying NO on an auction house. Give "lone wolf" non-guilded players -- particularly those who play sporadically, those who rarely have stuff to sell and have low-ticket items that would "waste" a roster spot on an active guild -- some way to sell outside a guild in a way that still encourages joining the guilds for more active traders, and I think it could work.