Dodging already has a cost that increases 50% with each dodge so it doesnt need any other nerf.

Tell us your class/build so we can give you some advice on how to deal with them

you want to dodge roll, you need stamina. you dodge roll a few times, stamina gone. problem solved!

Honestly is player skill issue. Many ways to deal with rolly pollies

Players have learned to permadodge.

And by permadodge I mean dodging the burst continuously until they are out of sight or cloaked.

This way players with high risk / high reward builds bypass the high risk portion of it and become extremely efficient on the battlefield.

I think that instead of increasing the dodge cost they should decrease the dodge chance while on the cooldown, something like this:

1st dodge - 100%
2nd dodge - 50%
3rd dodge - 25%

Didgerion wrote: »

Players have learned to permadodge.

And by permadodge I mean dodging the burst continuously until they are out of sight or cloaked.

This way players with high risk / high reward builds bypass the high risk portion of it and become extremely efficient on the battlefield.

I think that instead of increasing the dodge cost they should decrease the dodge chance while on the cooldown, something like this:

1st dodge - 100%
2nd dodge - 50%
3rd dodge - 25%

Evasion stat is the main culprit here. AOE skills are given as counter to dodge but at the same time medium armor builds with major evasion can easily reach 30% AOE damage reaction

i want to know how players are dodging without rolling. this is such bs. I see it all the time in BG.

Baconlad wrote: »

I think dodge roll is fine. Getting resources back...I'd have to say no, you can spam the ability more than I can dodge. That's like saying that if a skill is countered in anyway you should get resources back. I say no. Dodge is a defensive cost skill, no different than block or even any other bar slotted defensive ability.

If anything I think dodge itself costs too much. But I don't want to see people rolling like they in 2016. Even mag toons were rolling around like idiots.

I would argue that light armor is struggling defensively. Medium armor gets awesome dodge passive and healing buffs through weapon damage and crit damage and higher resist than light. Heavy armor gets flat healing buff, higher resists, mag and Stam restore through two different routes, and health bonuses.

Light armor gets...lowest resist, no defensive buffing other than crit rating and spell resist I believe? Which is still lower than medium armor spell and weapon resist. They need to completely redesign armor in ESO. Light armor/ medium armor/ heavy armor shouldn't matter what resources you use. They should provide a different experience for each type...also...Light armor should be the acrobatic armor...not medium.

Agree with most of this, (although I do think roll dodge has become far too cheap now, especially with the CP that reduces its cost combined with races like imperial that reduce its cost even further).

Light armor is struggling in almost every aspect, and when combined with the struggles that staves are also experiencing, it has created what we see today with no variation on builds, everyone running medium armor + 2h/dw/bow or just tanking up.

A few balances to be made could include;
- make medium armor passives only improve damage, not both damage and healing.
- move the crit damage from medium to light armor.
- give light armor a passive that buffs healing to make up for the severe lack of basic resistance values for wearing it, also most dedicated healer sets are light armor as well, so how this still doesn't buff healing outside of crit chance is beyond me, you can't "pen" heals to improve them.
- buff the light armor passives for damage avoidance to make up for the increased damage it takes.
- increase the pen and crit chance buffs that light armor provides to be on par overall with the raw damage buff from medium armor.

The first, second and last options are particularly effective at balancing the 2 armor types as raw damage won't ever have a foreseeable cap on it, while pen and crit chance inherently have their own caps where it becomes pointless to have more (18k for pen being a soft cap in pve, 33k in pvp which is the player armor cap, and 100% crit chance is a hard cap for crit chance and around 70% is the soft cap, crit damage is also capped at 125% total, meanwhile raw damage can be increased by as much as is possible within the game with no cap on it at all on top of better scaling instead of diminishing or capped returns and also buffing heals as well as damage and will perform even more in future as new sets are introduced with higher damage modifiers), so buffing those stats and moving crit damage to light armor would make up for the fact that they are all capped ways to buff damage while medium armors raw damage buff has no cap on it.

Light armor is supposed to be the glass cannon, full nuke but dies to a fart in the wind armor type, heavy armor the tank everything but deals no damage armor type and medium armor the jack of all trades, master of none armor type, but as it currently stands, medium armor is the jack of all trades, master of everything, which has made the other 2 armor types mostly irrelevant outside of providing some extra health from the undaunted passive on a 6/1 or 5/1/1 set up and often the pieces are niched, with heavy only useful on the chest and light only on the waist or being used on support builds.

If they don't want to mess around with the armor passives, then buffing destro staves to bring them back into the meta would be another way to balance armor types, as light armor would be good against staff users due to the extra spell resist, while weak to physical damage and this would help create that triangle of armor types they seemed to be going for in their designs, whereby the more staff users there are, the better light armor does, but then people will swap to physical weapons to get around that and deal more damage to the light armor players, which would cause more people to switch to heavy armor to counter that which in turn would bring back staves into the meta to counter the heavy armor and it would repeat the cycle over and over allowing for everything to be viable at some point in the cycle as everything would inherently balance each other out.

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Do you expect roll dodge to be nerfed in a NB friendly game ?

Every buff or nerf in the game is currently given careful consideration on how it effects nb. That's usually how eso is balanced these days

This is an interesting take on a class that is squish as heck is usually not that great in PvP or PvE outside of being able to sneak around. Even then, their cloak is easy to counter.

But back to the topic of the thread. It does not make sense to wholesale refund costs when a player successfully defends against it. The idea is a skillful play on both sides. Others have noted there is no such thing as an infinite dodge build.

You can roll catch with melee. Wind up a heavy attack, follow the dodge and let go when the dodge animation ends. The travel time makes it not work for ranged, but you'll have like a quarter second before they can get dodge frames again. Surprisingly it works almost exactly like another game where people complain about wildly imbalanced and dead PVP

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Do you expect roll dodge to be nerfed in a NB friendly game ?

Every buff or nerf in the game is currently given careful consideration on how it effects nb. That's usually how eso is balanced these days

This is an interesting take on a class that is squish as heck is usually not that great in PvP or PvE outside of being able to sneak around. Even then, their cloak is easy to counter.

But back to the topic of the thread. It does not make sense to wholesale refund costs when a player successfully defends against it. The idea is a skillful play on both sides. Others have noted there is no such thing as an infinite dodge build.

Stamblade has the best defense and offense in eso pvp. [snip]

That is a matter of opinion. While I do not know what U35 did to change the PvP tier list, it was not near the top outside of bowblade.

Regardless, this is not relevant to the topic of this thread. Not even close.

It is relevant due to the fact this change which OP asks will never go through as it's a nb nerf

I agree it will never go through, but the reason is it is the change does not make sense overall. How it affects specific classes is irrelevant.

[edited to remove quote]

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Do you expect roll dodge to be nerfed in a NB friendly game ?

Every buff or nerf in the game is currently given careful consideration on how it effects nb. That's usually how eso is balanced these days

This is an interesting take on a class that is squish as heck is usually not that great in PvP or PvE outside of being able to sneak around. Even then, their cloak is easy to counter.

But back to the topic of the thread. It does not make sense to wholesale refund costs when a player successfully defends against it. The idea is a skillful play on both sides. Others have noted there is no such thing as an infinite dodge build.

nb is one of the top pvp classes in the game (in fact it is top class over all if you count both stam and mag as a whole, with stam and mag blades holding 2nd and 3rd place behind only stamden, magden is still not there yet, but got better in U35) and is definitely not squishy unless you're trying to take a pve build into pvp.

NB has one of the strongest burst heals in the game that also grants mending, strong heal over time that also grants major expedition, minor endurance + intellect + procs the unique +10% damage done buff from the spammable, plenty of mitigation with major evasion, super cheap dodge rolls, plenty of LoS with invisibility and shade that works through/over walls, a crazy amount of utility with unblockable stuns and buffs/debuffs and a crazy amount of burst damage including a delayed burst that deals minimum 1.5x damage of every other delayed burst in the game as well as granting up to 300 raw damage buff and a heal if it's used in close range and the spammable granting minor expedition as well as its unique +10% damage buff, that combo of major + minor expedition was supposed to be unique to sorcs, but sorcs cannot get both buffs at the same time in the class kit, while nb can get both, so nb is not only the strongest class with access to the most buffs/debuffs, it has stolen sorcs niche of being the speedy evasive hard hitting class, but it also has the tanking capabilities of dk/plar/cro with how many buffs to its healing and mitigation it has been given over the past 1-2 years. Not to mention that the class has their source of majory sorcery/brutality that also grants minor courage and inflicts minor cowardice on enemies it hits, as well as incap that grants a unique +20% damage taken from anything on the target it hits, no other class has even close to that level of damage buffing from a single skill, let alone on a cheap 75 ultimate costing ability that can also stun.

[snip]

It is not an opinion, nb is at the top alongside stamden and that is fact, not opinion. You cannot be commenting on the pvp tiers, claiming that the classes are top tier or not if you have no clue about pvp in the latest patch (which you admit you have no clue). People who have relevant pvp experience with the current patch have told you nb is top tier.

[edited for baiting]

Agreed. NB's class toolkit is one of the best, if not the best, for pvp tbh. They have better ult gen than a class that was supposed to rely on ult for sustain (DK), they have the highest damage potential (through probably the cheapest ult in the game, bow stacks, and passives), and have one of the best heals in the game. No reason not to play NB if you want to play the class with probably the most complete toolkit. I'd play it if I could be bothered to spend more time on the game than I do currently.

There are 9,000 counters to roll. Please attempt to slot one of the very many OP Aoes or even consider; dots or timing your damage b/w rolls (which is both possible and very easy all things considered).

I could get behind a nerf to well fitted, but your first suggestion would have to mean; no more additional counters to roll and it just dodges everything indiscriminately. Which doesn’t make sense.