So this is a little disturbing (Bots/Spammers)

SadisticSavior · May 2014

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/24h8dv/welcome_to_the_zos_aua/ch73ney

Does this mean Zenimax is REFUNDING known Bot/Spam accounts?

If so, I don't see how this is discouraging botting at all. The bots/gold spammers will just buy a new subscription with the same money!

Holy crap is this pointless. Gold Spammers have no incentive at all to stop trying. They have endless accounts to use, just as they would with a F2P game.

Elsonso · May 2014

There are laws in place for some jurisdictions that do require that Zenimax do refunds when they ban someone. They cannot just say "thanks for the money, now go away".

P.S. - This was explained elsewhere in the forums if you care to look it up.

Humor · May 2014

What worries me more is their "Auto-Ban" system, it sounds like garbage, and sounds like the guy who programmed it, intended to ban "non-botting" characters, AKA innocence.

Why on earth would players get kicked, have an account suspended, and or deleted, yet, these other bots clearly with terrible names and such are still there, even after the one innocent player gets banned?

I still have to go with my conspiracy theory as to the companies (Zenimax in this case) controls all bots, and forces players to get banned by spending money on gold, only in order to get back into the game have to buy the game again (Which some players do), and resub.

I've noticed the bot situation, everytime a Dev/Mod says something about it, only gets worse, and worse. Yet, come back several hours later, and the same bots are in the same spots farming/grinding.

SadisticSavior · May 2014

Humor wrote: »

I still have to go with my conspiracy theory as to the companies (Zenimax in this case) controls all bots, and forces players to get banned by spending money on gold, only in order to get back into the game have to buy the game again (Which some players do), and resub.

So what? According to that link, they refund your money anyway...so how is Zenimax making any money? You can just use your refunded money to go buy the game again.

If anything it might cost THEM money if you bought a hardcopy version. They spent money making the hardcopy version and had to refund your entire purchase price anyway.

nerevarine1138 · May 2014

Bots already have endless accounts, because they don't use their own money. They use stolen credit cards or just cut out the middle-man and compromise a player's account directly.

hiyde · May 2014

Well, being the guy that asked the question that Matt responded to on Reddit...

..I have no idea *why* my account was refunded..or why I was unsubbed..or why my account was deleted or why I was thrown out of the game, because Zenimax has not taken the time to communicate ANY details to me despite a rep telling me 2.5 days ago that I'd be contacted "within 24 hours" and Matt Frior's personal promise 29 hours ago to expedite my situation after admitting that yes, innocent player's accounts are getting fried as collateral damage in their "auto ban" system botting battle, apologizing to me and saying that this is a 'terrible' situation.

nerevarine1138 · May 2014

hiyde wrote: »

Well, being the guy that asked the question that Matt responded to on Reddit...

..I have no idea *why* my account was refunded..or why I was unsubbed..or why my account was deleted or why I was thrown out of the game, because Zenimax has not taken the time to communicate ANY details to me despite a rep telling me 2.5 days ago that I'd be contacted "within 24 hours" and Matt Frior's personal promise 29 hours ago to expedite my situation after admitting that yes, innocent player's accounts are getting fried as collateral damage in their "auto ban" system botting battle, apologizing to me and saying that this is a 'terrible' situation.

No offense, but we have no idea what your situation is outside of what you claim is happening on the forums.

Now, I'm not saying that you're lying. You may very well be telling the truth. But the sad fact of the matter is that most people who go to the forums bemoaning the loss of their "innocent" account actually knew exactly what they were doing to get banned. Again, that may not be you. You may be one of the innocents caught in the crossfire. But experience makes me extremely cautious of accepting everyone's posts about things like this at face value.

Your case is in the hands of ZO right now. They are the only ones who can actually review the game logs and provide the appropriate response.

hiyde · May 2014

Fair enough. Yup, people lie and Yup, we live in a 'guilty until proven innocent' society.

The OP stated worries about 'botters getting refunds' in relation to my reddit Q&A with Matt Firor. I am simply pointing out that isn't, at this point, a valid conclusion because as I approach the 5th day of this situation, Zenimax has provided zero information before, during or after as to why any of it (including the full refund I didnt't ask for) happened.

ElliottXO · May 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Bots already have endless accounts, because they don't use their own money. They use stolen credit cards or just cut out the middle-man and compromise a player's account directly.

Who makes this stolen credit card crap up? Do you really think those people would still be working when they have unlimited credit card budget? Because I would be enjoying the sun in Hawaii.

Laura · May 2014

blame the laws not the company. I'm sure they don't want to go through the hassle of refunding them.

nerevarine1138 · May 2014

ElliottXO wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Bots already have endless accounts, because they don't use their own money. They use stolen credit cards or just cut out the middle-man and compromise a player's account directly.

Who makes this stolen credit card crap up? Do you really think those people would still be working when they have unlimited credit card budget? Because I would be enjoying the sun in Hawaii.

If they were able to use the cards for things the authorities would actually bother investigating, I'm sure they'd live off them. This system had been around for 10+ years. Your ignorance does not mean that others are "making it up."

hiyde · May 2014

So true - I was the victim of identity theft a few years ago, thieves got $15k from my bank account and even with a clear way to nail the culprits, the police, bank and vendor involved declined to pursue.

lioslinn · May 2014

For what it's worth I've been around the jute bots in stonefalls a lot and I've heard them talk in Chinese multiple times.vspmetimes they even fight amongst each other, pul an aoe mob on bots to grab the jute etc

the_Burne · May 2014

So I have to bot to get a refund?

Melian · May 2014

Humor wrote: »

forces players to get banned by spending money on gold,

Nobody is forcing you to buy gold.

Koloki · May 2014

hiyde wrote: »

So true - I was the victim of identity theft a few years ago, thieves got $15k from my bank account and even with a clear way to nail the culprits, the police, bank and vendor involved declined to pursue.

In most cases the bank prefers to refund the customer and not pursue the culprits. Honestly 15k is not a lot to a bank (they will refund the costumer anyway), the time and money spent in pursuing the culprits is better invested in developing systems to ensure ID theft does not happen again in the future with larger sums of money.

So yeah, small purchases (like $60 for a ESO account) are refunded by the card company/bank and no serious investigation goes on to it (not case-by-case anyway).
Once ZOS know about the theft, and consequent refund, they will ban the account, by that time the damage is done however.

lioslinn · May 2014

aaand tonight the bots all have fancier names like Kate something or Jack something. I counted 3-4 of each as I ran to Ebonheart. A lot of them just block the node by keeping the popup open (you know because you can't target it) and do random emotes to look busy. Pretty dumb, they're still clearly bots. I heard earlier today a GM banned a huge bunch in Stonefalls, hence the new names? anyway good news *cheers*

Sarenia · May 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Bots already have endless accounts, because they don't use their own money. They use stolen credit cards or just cut out the middle-man and compromise a player's account directly.

This.

A lot of these accounts are using burner cards that the botters won't have access to within a week's time.

Somebody has to refund the money spent by the botter on the stolen credit cards. Credit card companies don't want to do it. Insurance doesn't want to do it. So the pressure falls squarely onto the shoulders of the game which banned them.

If there's issue to be taken with this, it isn't with Zenimax.

Svann · May 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

There are laws in place for some jurisdictions that do require that Zenimax do refunds when they ban someone. They cannot just say "thanks for the money, now go away".

P.S. - This was explained elsewhere in the forums if you care to look it up.

I dont buy it. There isnt a game on the market that gives refunds when you violate terms and get yourself banned.

Chryos · May 2014

"Who makes this stolen credit card crap up? Do you really think those people would still be working when they have unlimited credit card budget? Because I would be enjoying the sun in Hawaii."

They constantly buy/trade/steal CC info. Organized crime is not one giant heist like in the movies. It's a "business" they dont make money from one giant score. Theres also a hierarchy in organized crime. Botters that do the leg work are the low men on the totem pole.