Why I am making Alts despite people putting down on the "replay value"

vince131nub18_ESO · May 2014

I have been seeing a lot of people complaining about the replay value and how you just go threw the other 2 factions in veteran ranks. as well as people not wanting to go threw the same quests again. well they do have a valid point, but i would still like to play the classes they bring the replay-ability back because i may be doing the same quest over but the difference is HOW i'm going to complete the quests, what kind of difficulties am i going to run into as this class in comparison to my main class. as a templar i have a very reliable heal i can sit on, but as a DK or a Sorc i dont have a super reliable heal i can sit on. also the different races making minor differences in play styles making it difficult to read your opponent in what to expect. ie a Imperial Sorc vs a High elf sorc (imperial sorc will have more health and more stam, but the high elf sorc will be able to cast more spells before the mana drys up) so they way i see it the people who complaining are not really interested in playing any other class than the first one and not really interested in putting forth the effort of learning a different class. did you ever just play one character in skyrim? you problably did and modded it so there is no lvl cap and probably abused the console commands. post legendary edition the level cap was 50 and you couldn't max every skill. the replay value comes from what you do with the game not what the game does for you. my replay value comes form new challenges even if the "new" challenge is the same challenge with different tools. still a new challenge.

SeñorCinco · May 2014

I think the game has just as much replay value as any other instalment in the series. I have created over 100 characters throughout the series and of that, 50 in Skyrim alone. Even across 50 characters and over 5K hrs I have yet to complete the MQ. I have only started it 14 times and of that... only 8 times did I meet the Graybeards. I have never even started the CW questline and still have a good 10-15 % of the map that is unexplored.

It's about not doing everything and every quest with one character. Yes you do the same quests over but with a different personality profile. The character may flat out refuse to do one that an earlier character because it was fitting to his personality profile to do so. Just because the Sword of Cut Your Butt is in Soggy Bottom Cavern doesn't mean your character does.

At least that's the way it is with me playing form a heavy RP aspect.

vince131nub18_ESO · May 2014

SeñorCinco wrote: »

I think the game has just as much replay value as any other instalment in the series. I have created over 100 characters throughout the series and of that, 50 in Skyrim alone. Even across 50 characters and over 5K hrs I have yet to complete the MQ. I have only started it 14 times and of that... only 8 times did I meet the Graybeards. I have never even started the CW questline and still have a good 10-15 % of the map that is unexplored.

It's about not doing everything and every quest with one character. Yes you do the same quests over but with a different personality profile. The character may flat out refuse to do one that an earlier character because it was fitting to his personality profile to do so. Just because the Sword of Cut Your Butt is in Soggy Bottom Cavern doesn't mean your character does.

At least that's the way it is with me playing form a heavy RP aspect.

this guys knows what im talking about

SirAndy · May 2014

I'm playing three main characters, one in each faction. For me, it's much more interesting to go through the different faction zones from the bottom up.

The whole VR grind is pretty boring, did it on the PTS, didn't like it much...
;-)

PS: As far as Skyrim goes, after "beating" the game the "normal" way, i made a mod that allowed me to stay at level 1 permanently and still have all the quests available.
I spent another 500+ hours on that character alone and had so much more fun than the "normal" play. Nothing like running into a level 11 frost troll when you're level 1.

pokebreaker · May 2014

I have 6 alts...All to store materials for my 1 Main Character. I have no intention of doing anything else with those alts. I do not like the story lines in games. Never have, never will. So replay value to me, comes from PvP (which I don't like in this game), crafting and selling.

Nox_Aeterna · May 2014

Mate , if that is enough for you , that is fine , good for you , and i mean it.

But honestly , unless they add more viable aways to lvl alts , im not doing it.

If i get tired of the class im playing right , the templar , i would rather quit the game right now , than lvl something else all over again and see the same quests all over again.

But that is me.

reggielee · May 2014

i agree there is some enjoyment running thru some content quests again with a whole new class and comparing those skills to your prior experience...... but for me that would be limited to just maybe lvl30, wouldnt want to go thru the whole game doing the same oh no matter the new class

the only time i would take an alt to end game is if that class turned out to be the one I should have gone with in the beginning.... in past mmos i dropped a tank for a cleric, an archer for a tank etc. all due to class mechanics that didnt appeal to me or were broken and not fixed for a long time

your thoughts on playing an alt from a roleplaying point of view was intriguing tho..... i would so love to have a total evil char.... heh

nicholaspingasb16_ESO · May 2014

SeñorCinco wrote: »

I think the game has just as much replay value as any other instalment in the series.

So, it has no replay value? Seriously, ES games are just the same content over and over, they have ZERO replay value. Especially since your decisions don't effect the world most of the time.

Nox_Aeterna · May 2014

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

SeñorCinco wrote: »

I think the game has just as much replay value as any other instalment in the series.

So, it has no replay value? Seriously, ES games are just the same content over and over, they have ZERO replay value. Especially since your decisions don't effect the world most of the time.

Ah mate.

You would be right , if you did not forget one big thing , mods.

I played skyrim for a long time , then i decided to rerun it , but this time with mods.

Took me more than one week to set it all up , i had a lot of them by the end , but i can tell you , it was a whole new game almost , and a LOT better , it was a tunned for me version of the game , with tons of things i wanted to see in it.

I played it all over again , without even caring.

That is the power of the single player ES games mate , something a MMO like this lacks.

imperial · May 2014

I have 7 alts partly for crafting, partly to have more slots to hold things and partly to have more to offer my guilds- eg if they don't have many tanks then I can use my tank. But mostly because I had so much fun leveling my main.

Kinsaven · May 2014

Obviously the replay value is different for everyone. We all have different opinions, and if you are having fun making alts and playing through all the quests again then good, I'm glad you are.

Personally, whilst yes I would play through the game again if I ever wanted to try a different class, I do find it a shame that you go through all the factions with your main when you do your veteran levels. It does diminish the replay value somewhat for me, because I've already played through all the zones. I would definitely find it less enjoyable, and would probably not do it more than twice. I'm still hoping that they make dungeons and pvp more viable when it comes to veteran levels, so you at least have some decent options next to questing.

jircris11 · May 2014

@vince131nub18_ESO welcome to Altaholics anonymous, i personally have 3 toons im lvling at the moment...and for those of you who don't like the term toon..tough turkey im using it XD

BKTHNDR · May 2014

I have 3 alts. All of them are in Daggerfall Covenant but each of them is a different class. I play my main character only when I'm with a friend and that's my highest level character (level 40 right now). The other two are just characters that I'm trying out to see how different builds work.

To say that a game of this scope has no replay value is just ridiculous. Those comments are probably just coming from the people that bash this game for the sake of doing so anyway.

Dekkameron · May 2014

I have 5 characters all 35+ and a single bank alt and a spare slot. I see no difference really in replay value in this than any other game really.

Lywen · May 2014

I have one alt for each faction, 3 different classes and races. I also plan on perhaps one staying human, one ending up vamp, another werewolf. We'll see it goes! I am also doing 2 crafts on each alt, so I can spread points between different crafting and combat styles. I figure that way the alts will be diverse enough to keep my attention.

Also, re: replay value, there /are/ some quests that have different options and consequences on what's chosen. And I imagine future expansions will further enhance replay value. This is just the beginning, eh?

Blackwolfe5 · May 2014

4 chars, all with different playstyles. Seriously, it's not all about the content. It's also about playing in different ways. My DK archer plays nothing like my Dualwielding NB for example. Eventually I'm hoping to have all my 4 chars at 50 (and then some with veteran levels).

Falmer · May 2014

Honestly, I don't know how people can only ever play one character. After 10 hours or so of playing a character with only 5 hotkeys and repeating the exact same combat pattern over and over again, I need a change of pace.

I am leveling up about 5-6 characters all with completely different combat tactics and styles. That way when I get bored of the repetitiveness of one combat style I can go play another character.

Nox_Aeterna · May 2014

People i know , you want to try to defend this game , like it does not have a problem and it falls on the players , which is quite funny , but , it wont really work.

You see , max lvl is vet 10.

How do you get vet 10 in PvE? The standard path , is playing all factions. Doing most quests.

Therefore , you get to notice all zones and quests while lvling one char.

Other MMOs (any that is worth anything anyway) , they offer you multiple lvling zones for the same lvling range , that you do not NEED to use in one run. So when you lvl another char , they can go to another area and check another stuff happening.

This one? Does not.

This is a problem people , i know you would prefer to just toss on players , with the fact that ... 3 skill trees of the many this game got make it totally a new experience to spend another 300 hours lvling , but ... it does not work that way for many players.

Now , you can say , well then quit , which i do intend eventually , or you can recognise this is something the game needs to offer also.

SeñorCinco · May 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

People i know , you want to try to defend this game , like it does not have a problem and it falls on the players , which is quite funny , but , it wont really work.

You see , max lvl is vet 10..

Max for who? I mean people play for different reasons. I doubt i will ever have a character to get 50 let alone V10.

For some TES is about the character and the story more so than getting to a target level. That content is available for that market but that content is nothing that others will strive to achieve.

Not everyone understands the RP concept nor do they want to and that is fine. The game is attempting a design to accommodate both types of players and I think they are doing a good job so far.

A heavy RPer can take a few quests available for a given area and make it last for days or even weeks, whereas arcade type player will be solely focused on max developement and getting there as fast as possible.

In the end... it's how you, as a player, perceive what is entertaining for you. That is all that matters.

Zarec · May 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Mate , if that is enough for you , that is fine , good for you , and i mean it.

But honestly , unless they add more viable aways to lvl alts , im not doing it.

If i get tired of the class im playing right , the templar , i would rather quit the game right now , than lvl something else all over again and see the same quests all over again.

But that is me.

you must never have played any other mmo out there within the last 10 years. If you think this game has no replay value, you should have played wow, SWG, lineage, lineage 2, DDO, The Matrix online......same quests/quest types over and over and over on each new alt. This game has at least more interactive story than many others of the old guard.

Nox_Aeterna · May 2014

Zarec wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Mate , if that is enough for you , that is fine , good for you , and i mean it.

But honestly , unless they add more viable aways to lvl alts , im not doing it.

If i get tired of the class im playing right , the templar , i would rather quit the game right now , than lvl something else all over again and see the same quests all over again.

But that is me.

you must never have played any other mmo out there within the last 10 years. If you think this game has no replay value, you should have played wow, SWG, lineage, lineage 2, DDO, The Matrix online......same quests/quest types over and over and over on each new alt. This game has at least more interactive story than many others of the old guard.

The first example you gave , is WoW , which totally falls into my category , WoW offers TONS of lvling zones , dont even compare with this game mate , which only shames ESO.

Which is fair , lets use the favorite argument of people that defend ESO , the game is new , while WoW is 10 years old.

But ESO will only be excuses for its problem for so long.

So you first example , WoW , kind of failed to get my point , i could talk about more MMOs , but i think i already made a point with this one.

SeñorCinco wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

People i know , you want to try to defend this game , like it does not have a problem and it falls on the players , which is quite funny , but , it wont really work.

You see , max lvl is vet 10..

Max for who? I mean people play for different reasons. I doubt i will ever have a character to get 50 let alone V10.

For some TES is about the character and the story more so than getting to a target level. That content is available for that market but that content is nothing that others will strive to achieve.

Not everyone understands the RP concept nor do they want to and that is fine. The game is attempting a design to accommodate both types of players and I think they are doing a good job so far.

A heavy RPer can take a few quests available for a given area and make it last for days or even weeks, whereas arcade type player will be solely focused on max developement and getting there as fast as possible.

In the end... it's how you, as a player, perceive what is entertaining for you. That is all that matters.

Sorry , but max level is max level , that means the TOP lvl in the game , soon it should become vet 12 actually.

You can say some people dont care to get there , but in a MMO , im just guessing MANY will do want it.

Mate , i played from morrowind to skyrim , so i do have an idea of how a ES game works, but is not ES VI , this is a ESO , a MMO.

Honestly , this game is quite poor when compared to even morrowind , when it comes to being a ES game , which is fine , cause they had to give a lot up when making it a MMO.

But , i would make a quite safe guess, most people did not play vanilla skyrim for thousands of hours , they added mods , remade the game over and over. This game , does not have that. It is , what they offer you , and if they dont offer enough , people cant just add content to make up for it.

Kallion · May 2014

The issue I see many people talking about (and personally experiencing) is that the game starts very slow. And even in the first area (up to lvl 15) there are abnormalities and difficulties that can be troublesome to new players.

In my opinion, since the developers are trying to capture a wide player base, they should place their fields of focus on that target group exactly. Many MMOs today simply focus on "fanboi" hard core gamers only and they end up with a small population that barely allows the corporate expenses to go through. And then they go F2P, hoping to attract (or re-attract) people and convince them to buy services. Make them believe that "things have changed"!

If one takes a plate, smashes it on the wall and then says "sorry, I'll glue it back together", will it ever be the same? The beginning is half of everything. Hence most of MMOs lose half their player base after the first month.

GW2 had the biggest success in the area by introducing many innovations in their engine mechanics. They made some mistakes as well, but they did some really good things. I've spent in there and SWTOR more cash than I am considering in spending in TESO (in its current form). And I know SW has some engine problems and some other issues, but the company offers counter rewards. Same in other games such as STO or Secret World etc. People LOVE rewards, one way or another.

Currently, TESO feels punishing enough to the new player. How can that change? The answer to that must not come tomorrow or now. It must come yesterday! Until that answer is implemented, we'll always hear something bad. Before I bought the game I went to numerous customer reviews. I was surprised to see either 5 stars or 1 star. Almost 1:1. That's a huge divide! It would be better if it they were gathering around 3-4 stars.

No matter what many think, the success of an MMO translates to only one thing: number of active players.Want to suceed? Take the casual gamers, make them feel at home and they will be your crowd for a long time. Nobody is born hard-core gamer. They become. The big question many companies fail to answer is "how do we do that?" Reward the player base, one way or another. Give incentives! You lack in one area? Offer an alternative. This is a competitive world. I bought the game from the official site @ 55euro and a friend in Denmark bought it with the exploration pack @ 25euro two days later! How do the rest of us feel? It's ok if there are offers with the usual 10-20% off. But more than 50%?

Back to the minds of the game companies. Only a few of them have the guts to truly seek answers. At times it feels like the movie industry (which I'm in), that everyone prefers the ancient franchises, the "certain" path as opposed to actually making an effort to be an innovative pioneer. Devs look to keep hardcore gamers only... which eventually limits their subs. There is more and more competition for a predetermined player base. More competitors, same size pie. One needs to change the odds and that can only mean by increasing the loyalty of the customer base. The other is to shutdown competition and that can take a long time or loads of cash.

And right now EU runs without its own server. With the exception the few countries that are around the Netherlands hub that connects to the US, the rest of the continent is becoming alienated. Less subs from EU; and the company then will claim they don't have enough customers so they won't bother with an EU server. A bad cycle and a common tactic in the business world.

You see, it's not just the re-playability of a game. It's a set of factors that set into place. A load of 2nd & 3rd parameters that make a replay a mundane job instead of a joy. Kicking out those parameters will improve a game's replayability. When I take my main to level in a MANDATORY area (emphasis) that suffers from a ton of lag and imbalanced mobs, will I look forward to do that again? Not really! I'd be running out like crazy, never looking back!

Zarec · May 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Zarec wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Mate , if that is enough for you , that is fine , good for you , and i mean it.

But honestly , unless they add more viable aways to lvl alts , im not doing it.

If i get tired of the class im playing right , the templar , i would rather quit the game right now , than lvl something else all over again and see the same quests all over again.

But that is me.

you must never have played any other mmo out there within the last 10 years. If you think this game has no replay value, you should have played wow, SWG, lineage, lineage 2, DDO, The Matrix online......same quests/quest types over and over and over on each new alt. This game has at least more interactive story than many others of the old guard.

The first example you gave , is WoW , which totally falls into my category , WoW offers TONS of lvling zones , dont even compare with this game mate , which only shames ESO.

Which is fair , lets use the favorite argument of people that defend ESO , the game is new , while WoW is 10 years old.

But ESO will only be excuses for its problem for so long.

So you first example , WoW , kind of failed to get my point , i could talk about more MMOs , but i think i already made a point with this one.

That is why I said quest/quest type. The quest types in wow were the exact same ad nauseum throughout the entire leveling career. That was the point I was trying to make. I honestly don't remember off the top of my head seeing a quest stating go kill 15 of this and turn around and kill 15 of that (might be able to if i sat down and thought about it awhile but honestly I can't right now) in this game.

I actually have favorite quests and enjoy seeing things again or seeing it from another perspective. Heck I enjoy trying to do what I could on one character and finding out it's a little harder on another. Other quests I just dread because I know its going to suck trying to do it on a specific class. Other games...its was pretty much snowball with any class (granted vanilla wow wasn't like that till TBC).

Plus the little red choices you make in quests change how people react to you. It is interesting to see how a little change in behavior makes other npc's react to you.

SeñorCinco · May 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Mate , i played from morrowind to skyrim , so i do have an idea of how a ES game works, but is not ES VI , this is a ESO , a MMO.

Actually, it was sold on the premise from the first announcement video that it was TES first and an MMO second.

While being an MMO it is still considered to be the next instalment to the series be it dubbed wit a roman numeral or not.

This game has attracted the TES fanbase as well as the generic MMO crowd. While your TES experience is acknowledged, I can promise you that there are many that do not care about V levels.

You have your way of playing and I am glad that you enjoy it but to say that the game does not support another playstyle just because you don't play that way is not a solid argument. Some people just don't get RPing and I understand that. It's ok. the game has content and will continue to have content for you.

As far as not being able to get upwards of 1K+ hrs without mods is simply not true. I have been an avid member of the Beth forums long before Skyrim. I played on the Xbox until I built my rig 6 months after the release of Skyrim. Up to that point I was playing vanilla on the console.

Even after I became into mods as a user and a maker, I only implemented mots that changed the game mechanics, added certain housing and implemented new armors, weapons, mounts and general cosmetics. I currently have a mod list running at 120 mods. None of which are added "content".

It's all how you play and no max level has anything to do with the way I play. That's just the way it is.

SeñorCinco · May 2014

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

So, it has no replay value? Seriously, ES games are just the same content over and over, they have ZERO replay value. Especially since your decisions don't effect the world most of the time.

Sorry, I missed this earlier. I think one that says TES has no replay value should look to the Betsoft Forums. As I noted in my previous post, mods to add a lot of things to the game outside of simply adding more content. They make the current content better.

The same thing for FallOut. While I will be the first to admit that TES is plagued with linear questlines and it does reflect in ESO with limited arcs in dialog and lack choice with varied outcomes. Something seen more in the FO series but is, and has been, faulted with passionate voices for the fanbase to have this changed.

Still, there is so much content that one can replay many times over and do different things altogether. Yes, an area might possess 50 quests but what do you need to do all of them?

My highest level character (20) was cleared to enter the next area at level 15 and still had 30% of the map to cover form the second area. Just because content is available doesn't mean you have got to do it, with one character.

OrangeTheCat · May 2014

Falmer wrote: »

Honestly, I don't know how people can only ever play one character. After 10 hours or so of playing a character with only 5 hotkeys and repeating the exact same combat pattern over and over again, I need a change of pace.

I am leveling up about 5-6 characters all with completely different combat tactics and styles. That way when I get bored of the repetitiveness of one combat style I can go play another character.

^This. I cannot play just one character for more than a couple of weeks. My "main" is level 31 sorc and leveling four crafting professions. When I get bored of that, I play my NB for a couple of weeks. I don't care if I never get any VR ranks. I'm having fun.

And I certainly don't understand the "rush to max level" mentality. Doing that just increases the likelihood of getting bored or getting in that "there is no end game" mindset as you're reaching end game before the devs have time to deliver new content. Just start leveling a new character. Problem solved

MasterSpatula · May 2014

The great-story, living-in-this-world, fun-quests thing is exactly what I wanted from this game. So yeah, I've got no problem leveling alts.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · May 2014

Lord, I'm leveling 7 chars, all different. It will take a few months to get em' where they need to go.

Fighters:

Level 21 Altmer Witch, the smack bringer. Also a Clothier and Woodworker. She is leveling those skills, this is not entirely on purpose.

Level 15 Imperial DK in Daggerfall, supposed the be like Boris from Snatch, just impossible to kill.

Level 13 Kajiit NB, I'm not sure what I'm doing here but it's working.

Support:

Level 11 Orc Sorc, my Blacksmith. Taught me the value of 2 hand, he has died less on his 10 levels than any of the rest. Leveling well, just made matching named blue daggers at level 34 for my son. The Deathwind starter named set.

Level 8 Dunmer Sorc, may be a fighter I'm not sure. Does woodworking a bit.

Level 8 Argonian Templar and the cook. Doing well, level 36 cook and we all eat well.

Level 8 Wood Elf NB, the Enchanter and Alchemist. Doing OK, Enchanting is a real grind.

They all feed each other, my son gets me higher end bits, and I make him stuff.

It works, having a ball.