The forums desperately need a list of Known Issues for this game.

N00BxV1 · September 2022

Why do we not have a list of Known Issues for this game? (Rhetorical question, I can guess why...)

It would help people find any known issues and to know what the developers are aware of and are working on. There are many duplicate threads in the bug reports forum as well as in other categories because people come and think that their issue is new or unique. Even a lot of games on the Steam forums often have their own lists of known issues...

Something as simple as "We are aware of X, Y, Z. We are working on X, plan to work on Y, and are unable to fix or just don't care about Z."

Tandor · September 2022

This would make a good suggestion if put properly, but using words like "Rhetorical question, I can guess why..." and "just don't care" mean ZOS won't bother to respond to it, let alone pass it up the line and pursue it.

Players are constantly moaning about forum moderation but they don't realise that it isn't what you say that matters, it's how you say it.

rpa · September 2022

ZOS typically does not acknowledge knowing a bug until they believe they have a fix for it. So they can't have a public list of known bugs because it would be embarrassingly short.

Suddwrath · September 2022

Don’t hold your breath

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/447611/forums-needs-an-official-known-bugs-issues-section#latest

Destai · September 2022

I suspect a list of open items would be interpreted as "unconstructive", much like a list of unfinished/in-flight development efforts:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/615549/list-of-things-the-devs-left-unfinished#latest

@ZOS_Kevin When will you be addressing this?

ZOS_Kevin · September 2022

So just wanted to touch base here. A known issues list is something we have talked about before and would like to implement the future. However, we want to make sure we are able to build and sustain a robust list like that as it does consume a lot of resources to keep a known issues list current at all times. So nothing to report on implementation at the moment, but it is something we are often assessing and discussing as a team

Elsonso · September 2022

For the record, I don't want a "known issues list". Too big. Too much "don't care".

I want a "hot issue status" that is updated daily... hourly... constantly... for the too-hot-to-hold ones down to once a month for the red-hot-but-we-aren't-working-on-it ones.

Destai · September 2022

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So just wanted to touch base here. A known issues list is something we have talked about before and would like to implement the future. However, we want to make sure we are able to build and sustain a robust list like that as it does consume a lot of resources to keep a known issues list current at all times. So nothing to report on implementation at the moment, but it is something we are often assessing and discussing as a team

Were these conversations serious considerations with scope actually discussed or more of a "wouldn't that be nice" in passing conversation? Assuming your teams are using some sort of Agile Dev Ops tool, or some other internal bug tracking tools - wouldn't those have supporting integrations you could leverage?

Lastly I hope you can address why players putting together a community-driven bug/dev effort list isn't seen as constructive. Professionally speaking, that seems to be rather constructive as it works towards an actual goal, but maybe your organization views that word differently. If anything, I think this would help alleviate some of the pressure you've mentioned.

psychotrip · September 2022

Tandor wrote: »

This would make a good suggestion if put properly, but using words like "Rhetorical question, I can guess why..." and "just don't care" mean ZOS won't bother to respond to it, let alone pass it up the line and pursue it.

Players are constantly moaning about forum moderation but they don't realise that it isn't what you say that matters, it's how you say it.

How long have you been here? Because a lot of us have long since realized that it doesn't matter. They'll ignore us regardless.

Not justifying any sort of bashing, but if a billion dollar company wont take actual, meaningful feedback because people are being critical, then that company deserves to fail.

Besides, its not like the rank and file devs have any control over the game. We're not criticizing them, we're criticizing the suits in charge.

ZOS_Kevin · September 2022

Destai wrote: »

So when you say you've talked about it, was it a serious consideration with scope actually discussed or more of a "wouldn't that be nice" in passing conversation? Assuming your teams are using some sort of Agile Dev Ops tool, or some other internal bug tracking tools - wouldn't those have supporting integrations you could leverage?

This has been discussed with serious consideration and assessing what we would need to make an endeavor like this successful. And yes, we could leverage bug tracking tools, that would be required. But it takes a lot more than leveraging a bug tracking tool to make this successful. But I will note that this is something we would like to have in the future, as many players have requested it. And are often assessing when we can make this happen. But not ETA at the moment.

To your last point, having the community trying to collate bug/dev effort sounds good in theory. However, it leave a few grey area liabilities for us. And community members should not be responsible for collating and updating an unofficial bug/dev list without working with ZOS to build and maintain it (which only circles us back to the original point of proper execution). Those are communications that should really only come from the dev team, which does happen when bugs are resolved. Not to mention, general community collating of bugs is what happens now with player submitted bug reports. Not in a list format, but in general when bugs are reported in-game, on social and on the forum.

Long winded answer, I know. But I hope this helps.

Destai · September 2022

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

So when you say you've talked about it, was it a serious consideration with scope actually discussed or more of a "wouldn't that be nice" in passing conversation? Assuming your teams are using some sort of Agile Dev Ops tool, or some other internal bug tracking tools - wouldn't those have supporting integrations you could leverage?

This has been discussed with serious consideration and assessing what we would need to make an endeavor like this successful. And yes, we could leverage bug tracking tools, that would be required. But it takes a lot more than leveraging a bug tracking tool to make this successful. But I will note that this is something we would like to have in the future, as many players have requested it. And are often assessing when we can make this happen. But not ETA at the moment.

To your last point, having the community trying to collate bug/dev effort sounds good in theory. However, it leave a few grey area liabilities for us. And community members should not be responsible for collating and updating an unofficial bug/dev list without working with ZOS to build and maintain it (which only circles us back to the original point of proper execution). Those are communications that should really only come from the dev team, which does happen when bugs are resolved. Not to mention, general community collating of bugs is what happens now with player submitted bug reports. Not in a list format, but in general when bugs are reported in-game, on social and on the forum.

Long winded answer, I know. But I hope this helps.

Love the long-winded answers, especially when it's a long-winded questions, thanks!

Amottica · September 2022

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

So when you say you've talked about it, was it a serious consideration with scope actually discussed or more of a "wouldn't that be nice" in passing conversation? Assuming your teams are using some sort of Agile Dev Ops tool, or some other internal bug tracking tools - wouldn't those have supporting integrations you could leverage?

This has been discussed with serious consideration and assessing what we would need to make an endeavor like this successful. And yes, we could leverage bug tracking tools, that would be required. But it takes a lot more than leveraging a bug tracking tool to make this successful. But I will note that this is something we would like to have in the future, as many players have requested it. And are often assessing when we can make this happen. But not ETA at the moment.

To your last point, having the community trying to collate bug/dev effort sounds good in theory. However, it leave a few grey area liabilities for us. And community members should not be responsible for collating and updating an unofficial bug/dev list without working with ZOS to build and maintain it (which only circles us back to the original point of proper execution). Those are communications that should really only come from the dev team, which does happen when bugs are resolved. Not to mention, general community collating of bugs is what happens now with player submitted bug reports. Not in a list format, but in general when bugs are reported in-game, on social and on the forum.

Long winded answer, I know. But I hope this helps.

I have suggested such a list before. I do agree that only Zenimax can manage the list. The main reason is that no game developers have ever fixed every bug in a game. They decide which bugs they feel are worthy of being fixed as some have a true heavy impact while others are just annoying.

Such a list keeps us abreast of what they are looking into in an organized manner. If we do not see something important on the list, we can try to keep topics on such items active in the forums to get Zenimax to work on it.

Hopefully, this does come to fruition.

FlopsyPrince · September 2022

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

So just wanted to touch base here. A known issues list is something we have talked about before and would like to implement the future. However, we want to make sure we are able to build and sustain a robust list like that as it does consume a lot of resources to keep a known issues list current at all times. So nothing to report on implementation at the moment, but it is something we are often assessing and discussing as a team

I mentioned that in the last month or so in a post asking for such an "official" status on many desired quality of life changes.

It would be much better to have an "official" word on plans/desires/whatever for something than people here speculating or proclaiming on ZOS' behalf.

Many Quality of Life desires come up regularly and having an official FAQ would be quite helpful. (Take Survey gathering if you need an example.)

I believe having this kind of things would also help players feel they had more of a voice. Sure, some would still be annoyed, but many would at least be glad a key thing they wanted had an official response.

Having a good way to note oddities in game would also help too. I rarely report annoyances now because I don't believe doing so influences things. I may be wrong, but that is the ultimate impression I get.

FlopsyPrince · September 2022

A bug type list would need to be locked, though you could have a related "discuss" thread as you do for blog posts.