HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Definitely, thanks for the info if this is the case....but are you surrrre TTC doesn't also include all uploaded sales data if the user keeps their client.exe up to date? (this is an extension of 'get the addon yaself' imo.

Not since the last time I checked.

For example, a price check on Dreugh Wax, it specificially states listings. Now let's say a few people over that time "accidentally" list a stack of 4 for 2,000,000 gold, this listing inflates the average (this does happen quite frequently). You can see here, an example of extreme pricing:

Because TTC works on listings, not sales, no one can force someone else to list at a particular price and as such the highest listings will affect average and suggested pricing. On the flip side, however, there's also the little known Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages which does show data points for both sales and listings (as you can see here, data for sales shows prices being around 2k lower than listings for the same item over the same duration), but is much, much, much less frequently used (and thus updated) than either MM or TTC. So, again, having multiple datapoints is a good thing. If you don't have the datapoints, then you ask others. If others in your guilds do not have the data or do not respond within what one considers a reasonable time, then one can ask in zone chat.

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

I find both TTC and MM a bit of a dark masonic mystery, but I was under the impression that TTC was universal and only MM was based on your guilds?

I was about to say 'thanks for the lesson' but are you suuuuuuure? The game is down for patching now, but if I look at TTC rollover graph i see THOUSANDS of data points....for MM's graph i might see a hundred or so but often I only see a few.

Definitely, thanks for the info if this is the case....but are you surrrre TTC doesn't also include all uploaded sales data if the user keeps their client.exe up to date? (this is an extension of 'get the addon yaself' imo.

In addition to what Troodon80 said:

MM/ATT register sales in your guilds. So they tell you what has actually been sold at which prices, and how that developed over time. The downside is that they only have access to your guilds, so if you're not in a very active trading guild (or better, multiple), or the item is very rare, then your data may be very skewed, or nonexistent.

TTC registers listings, i.e. items on the traders, regardless of whether they've sold or not. So you can get the skewed prices by outliers that Troodon described. The other issue is that no, TTC does not upload everything automatically. TTC only uploads items you have searched for or personally put up for sale, and it does so only when you /reloadui or log out. In your own guild, you can tell it to Scan the whole guild store (which will probably take quite a while) so the whole inventory gets registered by TTC. You also can't see price development through TTC, only a snapshot of what the site has currently in its database.

So let's assume a player lists an item for sale. That item will only appear on the TTC site
- after he relogged and if he is running the desktop client (the ingame add-on is not enough)
- if someone else running the client searches for that item in that store, and then relogs
- if someone (e.g. the guild master of a trading guild) scans the whole store, and then relogs.
That means that for a specific item to be registered by TTC, there can be hours between listing and the site knowing about it.

Now, that is usually not too much of an issue with mass goods like materials. (Although the TTC data for gold mats can be quite substantially out of date.)

Memory_In_Motion wrote: »

It is a fact that averages are highly influenced by the extreme highs and lows. TTC is the least reliable for using average listings. Now if someone would gather data on the median prices, that is the prices that occur most frequently and they did that for actual sales data rather than listing price, AND did that for all sales and not just specific guilds you might be in THEN we could have some leveling off of prices i think and we'd have reliable info for sure but neither att mm or ttc does median price sales across all guilds.

I can't speak for ATT as I haven't used it for some time, but MM does have clipping options for highs and lows and should be reliable as long as there is enough data for it. UESP also has data (unfiltered) for listings and sales, and should be much more reliable when looking at days or weeks. Listings on UESP which are at extremes are also highlisted in red:
So if you wanted to copy the data to... let's say... a spreadsheet (you can click on the view data as CSV link at the bottom of the table) and filter those items out, you could do so. But that's yet more work to get a price, and considering relatively few people use it, data would be somewhat unreliable anyway. UESP also allows uploading the data either from in-game data collection via the uespLog addon and application (much like TTC's application) or via uploading collected MM data through the submission page.

If TTC also did this, it would, by far, be the most reliable source for price data... but does not.

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people should or should not use a specific; quite the opposite, I recommend people use MM/ATT, TTC, and UESP for the best aggregate, depending on your game performance)

Troodon80 wrote: »

Memory_In_Motion wrote: »

It is a fact that averages are highly influenced by the extreme highs and lows. TTC is the least reliable for using average listings. Now if someone would gather data on the median prices, that is the prices that occur most frequently and they did that for actual sales data rather than listing price, AND did that for all sales and not just specific guilds you might be in THEN we could have some leveling off of prices i think and we'd have reliable info for sure but neither att mm or ttc does median price sales across all guilds.

I can't speak for ATT as I haven't used it for some time, but MM does have clipping options for highs and lows and should be reliable as long as there is enough data for it. UESP also has data (unfiltered) for listings and sales, and should be much more reliable when looking at days or weeks. Listings on UESP which are at extremes are also highlisted in red:
So if you wanted to copy the data to... let's say... a spreadsheet (you can click on the view data as CSV link at the bottom of the table) and filter those items out, you could do so. But that's yet more work to get a price, and considering relatively few people use it, data would be somewhat unreliable anyway. UESP also allows uploading the data either from in-game data collection via the uespLog addon and application (much like TTC's application) or via uploading collected MM data through the submission page.

If TTC also did this, it would, by far, be the most reliable source for price data... but does not.

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people should or should not use a specific; quite the opposite, I recommend people use MM/ATT, TTC, and UESP for the best aggregate, depending on your game performance)

TTC’s suggested price is curated this way - there is a note on the esoui.com page that the outliers are removed as part of the suggested price. I don’t recall if the average is adjusted like that.

Troodon80 wrote: »

HerrKeinTipp_MrNoTip wrote: »

Couldn't vote with your options.

• I don't understand why people do price check. Get the addon. It's relatively lightweight. Sometimes I don't respond beyond sassing them and telling them to get the addon on alt-tab to the website.

People in different guilds, in different locations, will often have a varied average. People in more trading guilds will have a more reliable averages with overall greater sales data. I use those addons and I'm in two trading guilds (one prominant guild in Deshaan on PC-EU), but there are times when an item I want to sell isn't listed on MM or no one has sold said item for 200 days.

One could go to TTC's website and look for the lowest price and then go slightly lower than that, but... you could also go to that guild kiosk and see if it's still there, and if it's not... then repeat for the second lowest, third lowest, etc. It ends up being a chore, teleporting around all of Tamriel to check if items are still in stores, when all you want to do is sell one item. It's okay to get a general idea as it has suggested and average prices, but I'd rather see hard data in the form of sales. The more data one has, the more concrete their decision can be. Being sassy isn't helpful in any way, nor is suggesting that they get the addons when they might already have those addons. Please show a modicum of consideration to your fellow players.

This is why I don't use MM. It requires you to be in 4 decent trading guilds to get the most accurate pricing.