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U35 Feedback Thus Far
VXer
✭✭✭
Hey Zenimax,
We (my 65 yr old father, his twin brother, and their childhood friend) run as a group every AEST Monday night, or AEST Tuesday when maintenance patches occur. While unrelated to U35, our Australian timezone and connectivity establish some minor challenges with latency. It's not the end of the world with Elder Scrolls Online but I do know what the difference between 300ms and 20ms looks like even with the necessary buffers.
Last AEST Tuesday night, we went through patch notes together. My father plays the healer of the group, a Templar. He enjoys the game but has never really gotten past a hunt & peck style skill bar playstyle. I'm sure you all know the type, looking down at the keyboard to find the key to press and then looking up to make sure it's the right skill on the skill bar.
He was feeling a little concerned there might be added pressure with the HPS/HoT adjustments because he knows he's slow at reactions and doesn't have the greatest uptimes on static HoTs. He panic resorts to using Illustrious Healing as a spammable until he's out of Magicka and presses R instead of E when trying to loot a corpse and drops us a tasty ultimate to cheekily proc a synergy off. We have a laugh about it, but it sets the tone on what to expect.
My uncle plays a Dragonknight Tank. With my assistance through in-game gold and hard-won PvP farming we've managed to get him (mostly) optimal in set up with Powerful Assault, Drake's Rush, Spaulder of Ruin and a Baron Thirsk helmet after I scummed hundreds of Key Shards so he could sneak into Imperial Vaults to play lottery until he got a Medium Baron Thirsk helmet. It's the right substitute for a 1-piece Magma Incarnate and more accessible than the Veteran Dread Cellar run by a long run. He's probably the more META-focused player out of the three.
His first comment was incoming healing being affected without a damage loss from monsters would result in more windows for mistakes. Not opportunities, but mistakes.
Their childhood friend is our second DPS player and one of the "play as you want to play" type players, and that's okay. I don't mind him ignoring my advice for better gear setup, or skill usage. He's enjoying himself and in normal Dungeons was able to successfully complete content without feeling left behind. That has always been the case with our group though. Fun should come first, but we still want to try progress because it feels good to complete something you haven't been able to do before.
He has nerve damage in 3 out of 4 of his fingers on his left hand, which has caused problems for what many would consider simple mechanics like blocking, or bash. For most part, this actually means he has resorted to running Gaze of Sithis as a mitigation approach. It's not an elegant solution and doesn't help in the grand scheme of things but we make do with that limitation. Oakensoul Ring was highly sought after by both my father and this childhood friend because of their shortcomings (both skill and physical) that they felt could be corrected by the item.
Still, mostly, serves its purpose and we all agreed it was an over-tuned item in U34 but that is not the point of this post.
Finally, of the four players in our group - There's me. A CP 1600+ player, who follows META choices with builds and skills, and I've been playing ESO since Beta. I'm not a sweaty player, but I've stuck around through several iterations and have always maintained my subscription to ESO when able. I don't often play outside of these AEST Monday/Tuesday nights, except when a few US-based friends play over the weekend.
Collectively, we're not great players. We aren't pushing 130K DPS or breaking any records, but we have been progressing, albeit slowly, through Normal and Veteran content. Update 34 and High Isle chapter was the first time I successfully completed Veteran Vateshran! Great milestone for progress and accomplishment.
We were pushing for Veteran City of Ash II in U34. Excluding some dumb moments when I, the shot-caller and group lead, forgot that Bone Colossus could one-shot me and didn't let the tank grab aggro first; we were excitingly pushing for our first No Death run of Veteran City of Ash II as a group. We still finished on Veteran difficulty, but could you imagine? So close to the group completing a no-death run. If we had that, we were looking at Hard Mode and potentially attempting a speed run.
Now you have some idea of the group dynamics that I play with every gaming night. So with that said, I think I can go on to our first experiences in Update 35 thus far.
--
I read out the patch notes, covering the changes for damage adjustments and the group laughed nervously. Thought it was crazy. The immediate text of the Patch Notes was disheartening, to say the least. Stamina Templars may as well not exist with Stampede and Biting Jabs nerfs, while Healing over Time adjustments meant we expected wipes because the windows of punishment would be greater. Less HPS buffer to shore up our own mistakes immediately had us nervous about trying a Veteran dungeon.
Their childhood friend was ready to quit and go play Guild Wars (not Guild Wars 2) with his daughters instead of launching the game ever again. But we swallowed our concerns and loaded into Elder Scrolls Online.
We ran a random, normal dungeon and got Darkshade Caverns II. Easy, right? We've done this on normal several times with a handful of Veteran attempts attempted and maybe 1-2 of those runs being successful. I was running through on a Stamina Necromancer which normally has no problem with the content. First time in a long time, my health dropped below 5% HP on the first boss when we pulled all the possessed miners to the Fallen Foreman, as per our usual strategy. Immediately we felt the impact of Stampede being nerfed. We felt the impact of all the damage loss across the board, to healing over time adjustments with no change to incoming damage from enemies.
The whole time, we commented on our experience amongst ourselves and the general consensus was that damage was down, survivability was down, but the content remained the same.
We eventually completed the dungeon, but it was a good 25-30 minutes to do which we otherwise could do in closer to 15 minutes pre-U34. What used to be a relatively chill, faster run with less care about trash pulls, became slower more meticulous play. This was not rewarding and collectively, did not provide a sense that the "floor" was raised to allow harder/later-game content that was supposed to be more accessible.
I swapped to a Stamina Templar for the next dungeon, knowing full well the potential self-loathing I would have by the end of the night.
The combination of my skill selection (Biting Jabs, Endless Hail, Stampede, Razor Caltrops, Mystic Orb...) taking a nerf meant I might as well have been hitting enemies with a wet noodle. In group trash pulls, Biting Jabs felt less atrocious but otherwise was not worth using. Mystic Orb was noticeably weaker. Stampede was an obvious drop. Caltrops with lower damage wasn't too noticeable, but combining all the above into one character meant I lost a lot of damage, to my own chagrin. I had more spammable damage from Blazing Spear than current Biting Jabs, but resource management was also problematic. In the end, I resorted to playing off-healer with 10-15K DPS coming out of a character than used to perform closer to 28-34k DPS in normal dungeons.
I can safely say, it was a negative experience and I will be resetting my Templar to a different configuration, or shelving it until a future change.
Our second dungeon of the night was Graven Deep. Now, content-wise - we enjoyed Graven Deep. The secret bosses' pre-mechanic design with the traps and levers, etc, fantastic experience and was enjoyable especially given the secret bosses have relatively simple mechanics but unique, thought-provoking means to reach (like say, Black Drake Villa secret bosses). The final boss and the mechanics required were ridiculously challenging for us, but plenty of fun and rewarding when we finished the fight. Graven Deep was *long* for us, but newer dungeons normally are until we've gotten used to the mechanics.
Update 35 has, for the moment, entirely dashed that Veteran City of Ash II prospect for my group. I intend to attempt it with them next week but we are not expecting good results and we're scrambling to work out our group composition and changes to earn back what we should have rightfully already had.
Will we continue playing Elder Scrolls Online? I will be, at least. I have every intention to continue posting here in this thread as my group's experience with all the changes kick over but so far it has not been pleasant at all and initial thoughts on the patch show a disconnect from the aspired goal of "accessibility" in this patch and the actual outcome.
Edit: We're not elite, world-record-breaking players. While some might adapt and be able to return to something close to their U34 performance, we're not able to make those sweeping changes without the time invested and fun sucked out of the game in the process.
This change has set our progression backward and has made content harder to get through and complete. While I entirely understand my experiences here don't follow hard, statistical evidence as was provided in several PTS feedback posts, it's the lived experience of a mixed group of players who just want to have fun earning the small victories and progression milestones while we still can without having to drastically change to meet a landscape that was supposed to make combat easier for us.
Edited by VXer on August 24, 2022 9:43AM We (my 65 yr old father, his twin brother, and their childhood friend) run as a group every AEST Monday night, or AEST Tuesday when maintenance patches occur. While unrelated to U35, our Australian timezone and connectivity establish some minor challenges with latency. It's not the end of the world with Elder Scrolls Online but I do know what the difference between 300ms and 20ms looks like even with the necessary buffers.
Last AEST Tuesday night, we went through patch notes together. My father plays the healer of the group, a Templar. He enjoys the game but has never really gotten past a hunt & peck style skill bar playstyle. I'm sure you all know the type, looking down at the keyboard to find the key to press and then looking up to make sure it's the right skill on the skill bar.
He was feeling a little concerned there might be added pressure with the HPS/HoT adjustments because he knows he's slow at reactions and doesn't have the greatest uptimes on static HoTs. He panic resorts to using Illustrious Healing as a spammable until he's out of Magicka and presses R instead of E when trying to loot a corpse and drops us a tasty ultimate to cheekily proc a synergy off. We have a laugh about it, but it sets the tone on what to expect.
My uncle plays a Dragonknight Tank. With my assistance through in-game gold and hard-won PvP farming we've managed to get him (mostly) optimal in set up with Powerful Assault, Drake's Rush, Spaulder of Ruin and a Baron Thirsk helmet after I scummed hundreds of Key Shards so he could sneak into Imperial Vaults to play lottery until he got a Medium Baron Thirsk helmet. It's the right substitute for a 1-piece Magma Incarnate and more accessible than the Veteran Dread Cellar run by a long run. He's probably the more META-focused player out of the three.
His first comment was incoming healing being affected without a damage loss from monsters would result in more windows for mistakes. Not opportunities, but mistakes.
Their childhood friend is our second DPS player and one of the "play as you want to play" type players, and that's okay. I don't mind him ignoring my advice for better gear setup, or skill usage. He's enjoying himself and in normal Dungeons was able to successfully complete content without feeling left behind. That has always been the case with our group though. Fun should come first, but we still want to try progress because it feels good to complete something you haven't been able to do before.
He has nerve damage in 3 out of 4 of his fingers on his left hand, which has caused problems for what many would consider simple mechanics like blocking, or bash. For most part, this actually means he has resorted to running Gaze of Sithis as a mitigation approach. It's not an elegant solution and doesn't help in the grand scheme of things but we make do with that limitation. Oakensoul Ring was highly sought after by both my father and this childhood friend because of their shortcomings (both skill and physical) that they felt could be corrected by the item.
Still, mostly, serves its purpose and we all agreed it was an over-tuned item in U34 but that is not the point of this post.
Finally, of the four players in our group - There's me. A CP 1600+ player, who follows META choices with builds and skills, and I've been playing ESO since Beta. I'm not a sweaty player, but I've stuck around through several iterations and have always maintained my subscription to ESO when able. I don't often play outside of these AEST Monday/Tuesday nights, except when a few US-based friends play over the weekend.
Collectively, we're not great players. We aren't pushing 130K DPS or breaking any records, but we have been progressing, albeit slowly, through Normal and Veteran content. Update 34 and High Isle chapter was the first time I successfully completed Veteran Vateshran! Great milestone for progress and accomplishment.
We were pushing for Veteran City of Ash II in U34. Excluding some dumb moments when I, the shot-caller and group lead, forgot that Bone Colossus could one-shot me and didn't let the tank grab aggro first; we were excitingly pushing for our first No Death run of Veteran City of Ash II as a group. We still finished on Veteran difficulty, but could you imagine? So close to the group completing a no-death run. If we had that, we were looking at Hard Mode and potentially attempting a speed run.
Now you have some idea of the group dynamics that I play with every gaming night. So with that said, I think I can go on to our first experiences in Update 35 thus far.
--
I read out the patch notes, covering the changes for damage adjustments and the group laughed nervously. Thought it was crazy. The immediate text of the Patch Notes was disheartening, to say the least. Stamina Templars may as well not exist with Stampede and Biting Jabs nerfs, while Healing over Time adjustments meant we expected wipes because the windows of punishment would be greater. Less HPS buffer to shore up our own mistakes immediately had us nervous about trying a Veteran dungeon.
Their childhood friend was ready to quit and go play Guild Wars (not Guild Wars 2) with his daughters instead of launching the game ever again. But we swallowed our concerns and loaded into Elder Scrolls Online.
We ran a random, normal dungeon and got Darkshade Caverns II. Easy, right? We've done this on normal several times with a handful of Veteran attempts attempted and maybe 1-2 of those runs being successful. I was running through on a Stamina Necromancer which normally has no problem with the content. First time in a long time, my health dropped below 5% HP on the first boss when we pulled all the possessed miners to the Fallen Foreman, as per our usual strategy. Immediately we felt the impact of Stampede being nerfed. We felt the impact of all the damage loss across the board, to healing over time adjustments with no change to incoming damage from enemies.
The whole time, we commented on our experience amongst ourselves and the general consensus was that damage was down, survivability was down, but the content remained the same.
We eventually completed the dungeon, but it was a good 25-30 minutes to do which we otherwise could do in closer to 15 minutes pre-U34. What used to be a relatively chill, faster run with less care about trash pulls, became slower more meticulous play. This was not rewarding and collectively, did not provide a sense that the "floor" was raised to allow harder/later-game content that was supposed to be more accessible.
I swapped to a Stamina Templar for the next dungeon, knowing full well the potential self-loathing I would have by the end of the night.
The combination of my skill selection (Biting Jabs, Endless Hail, Stampede, Razor Caltrops, Mystic Orb...) taking a nerf meant I might as well have been hitting enemies with a wet noodle. In group trash pulls, Biting Jabs felt less atrocious but otherwise was not worth using. Mystic Orb was noticeably weaker. Stampede was an obvious drop. Caltrops with lower damage wasn't too noticeable, but combining all the above into one character meant I lost a lot of damage, to my own chagrin. I had more spammable damage from Blazing Spear than current Biting Jabs, but resource management was also problematic. In the end, I resorted to playing off-healer with 10-15K DPS coming out of a character than used to perform closer to 28-34k DPS in normal dungeons.
I can safely say, it was a negative experience and I will be resetting my Templar to a different configuration, or shelving it until a future change.
Our second dungeon of the night was Graven Deep. Now, content-wise - we enjoyed Graven Deep. The secret bosses' pre-mechanic design with the traps and levers, etc, fantastic experience and was enjoyable especially given the secret bosses have relatively simple mechanics but unique, thought-provoking means to reach (like say, Black Drake Villa secret bosses). The final boss and the mechanics required were ridiculously challenging for us, but plenty of fun and rewarding when we finished the fight. Graven Deep was *long* for us, but newer dungeons normally are until we've gotten used to the mechanics.
Update 35 has, for the moment, entirely dashed that Veteran City of Ash II prospect for my group. I intend to attempt it with them next week but we are not expecting good results and we're scrambling to work out our group composition and changes to earn back what we should have rightfully already had.
Will we continue playing Elder Scrolls Online? I will be, at least. I have every intention to continue posting here in this thread as my group's experience with all the changes kick over but so far it has not been pleasant at all and initial thoughts on the patch show a disconnect from the aspired goal of "accessibility" in this patch and the actual outcome.
Edit: We're not elite, world-record-breaking players. While some might adapt and be able to return to something close to their U34 performance, we're not able to make those sweeping changes without the time invested and fun sucked out of the game in the process.
This change has set our progression backward and has made content harder to get through and complete. While I entirely understand my experiences here don't follow hard, statistical evidence as was provided in several PTS feedback posts, it's the lived experience of a mixed group of players who just want to have fun earning the small victories and progression milestones while we still can without having to drastically change to meet a landscape that was supposed to make combat easier for us.
The longer you stay here, the more danger you are in.
84
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Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is excellent feedback OP and this type of feedback should be passed directly to the combat team @ZOS_Kevin26 -
Greeed2025✭✭✭Lol imagine excellent, constructive and honest feedback will be read by the combat team. Good luck my friend! Everything we say is just kneejerk reaction31
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VXer✭✭✭Well, as it's my first post here in 8 years - I'm going to try make it count. I've tolerated and adapted through every change thus far, as it hasn't been excruciating to do so, but this update is the one to bring me out of the woodwork.
The whole notion of this patch threatens the stability and enjoyment of my static gaming group who are ready to move on to greener pastures.
It's a sentiment that has been echoed by other players about this patch so adding my voice to the chorus of public outcry is better than doing nothing.Edited by VXer on August 25, 2022 4:22AMThe longer you stay here, the more danger you are in.24 -
Freelancer_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the people in your group that have Oakensoul haven't already you might have them try mixing some heavy attacks in as the damage is significantly better with the new Empower for most builds and it might help some with some of the potential resource challenges in some circumstances.
Depending on what you've done progression wise with Imperial City Prison/Castle Thorn the tank might be able to take a fair bit of pressure off of the healer by running more defensive sets at least temporarily.
Amusingly, with U35 my Warden Tank actually has a bigger burst heal for an ally than any of my healers. I'm honestly confused that they hit so many heals so hard then upgraded the Warden Tank heal as much as they did.
3 -
VXer✭✭✭Imperial City Prison and Castle Thorn have been previously completed, but not 100% gear farmed so that'll be interesting with U35.
The primary trip up with them has been Lord Warden mechanics. Mostly turning off the "Stay out of stupid" mantra when needed, while Castle Thorn has the....Blood Gargoyle and Lady Thorn fights being problematic for them.
Prior to U35, I did enough DPS and self healing to make up for their slip ups in mechanics with brute force, but now that has a question mark we will have to explore.
I don't particularly want to make them invest heavily into massive gear and skill change ups since they play in a 2 hour window every week and by the time we've potentially, successfully completed these dungeons enough to establish a set change, there may as well be a new Patch Notes release 😂Edited by VXer on August 25, 2022 5:24AMThe longer you stay here, the more danger you are in.0 -
VXer✭✭✭Alrighty, buckle up as we continue to explore damage reduction, healing reduction and to a lesser extent, new content.
As previously mentioned, I play with a bunch of pensioners who play 2 hours a week. They could very well be the definition of casual players who would benefit from accessibility changes.
Our first dungeon of the night was a random Normal dungeon, and to my unhappiness, it ended up being Lair of Maarselok. Lair of Maarselok is not an enjoyable dungeon for me, personally. (I particularly dislike Moonhunter Keep, but we won't dive into that
)
I figured I'd throw some DLC content in there to try to get a gauge for content before diving into Veteran. I had suggested Castle Thorn and Imperial City Prison, but ultimately their hesitation given the decrease in damage and healing meant I'd be mostly soloing boss fights (and even I'm not quite sure I can do that right now with current setups).
I loaded up into Normal Lair of Maarselok as a Stamina Nightblade and made no adjustments from its U34 build.
I felt the lowered DPS but not to the same extent as the Stamina Templar from last week and will have to see about making some adjustments. Maybe a Concealed Weapon vs Surprise Attack situation. Twisting Path feels like it has lost a lot of its lustre in cleave situations and I'd be better off slotting something else.
Stampede is, of course, lower damage output compared to previous updates and without a Maelstrom 2H, I'll have to commit to completing several runs to establish the non-perfected version. Currently running with Stormfist, Order's Wrath and Briarheart until I've got a full set of Pillar of Nirn and Whorl of the Depths to work with.
I've been chipping away at Falkreath Hold runs to get the damned elusive Pillar of Nirn Daggers and been in some trials, courtesy of Project Vitality (Thank you, NefasQS) to nab up the majority of non-perfected Whorl of the Depths body pieces. So there's a potential boost in personal DPS on the horizon.
Frankly, that project to try revitalize the trial scene with new players was an excellent initiative. The real shame there is how Update 35 has killed a lot of passion and drive to continue participating, what with patch fatigue and the DPS impact felt across the trial player base. I've never run a single trial until Project Vitality became a thing due to parsing "expected minimum" DPS requirements scaring me away from trying and the group has overall been pretty friendly and welcoming to new players trying to experience that aspect of end-game Elder Scrolls Online.
It's still running, but to nowhere near the capacity it was pre-U35, and while it is community-driven, it's disappointing to see the drop in numbers nonetheless. Enough of my waxing on, back to the group experience!
Lair of Maarselok content was tolerable, but the tank and healer ended up dying to the Azureblight Lurcher AoE puddles. This can be attributed to both healing adjustments from U35 and frankly, old man reflexes, so it's hard to blame the U35 here solely. We didn't experience any further deaths. However, I did end up doing the full corridor run to Maarselok by myself as they got lost in the dungeon. "How?" you might ask. Situational awareness! They sometimes joke that it's "Alzheimer's leading the Alzheimer's".
While none of them has that condition, there are times when I wonder if there's a layer of half-truth. Off to a good, light-hearted start at least.
On that note, our other DPS was running a Magicka Dragonknight at the time and was having a rough time focusing. He made quite a few mistakes in our second dungeon run of the night due to situational awareness being at a minimum, so his feedback was mostly self-critical, and so there wasn't much to separate into useful combat feedback.
We decided to run Earthen Root Enclave on a Normal, blind run much like Graven Deep to try to gauge what the new dungeon content was supposedly balanced around.
Our Dragonknight tank died to the Scorched Root secret boss by being knocked back into the ring of fire. This is more of a mechanics/positioning issue.
We wiped once on the Corruption of Stone boss. This was due to positioning/mechanics and old man reflexes, where sprint didn't seem to be an option, while there was also confusion about the Stone Atronachs being the "stone pillars" to hide behind. The second attempt went through (mostly) without any stressful moments besides old man reflexes and a lack of sprinting kept being an issue.
No further boss wipes occurred, we enjoyed the Lutea secret boss fight, and the Corruption of Root was relatively simple in comparison to the Corruption of Stone. We had some laughable moments falling off the cliffside while trying to activate the final secret boss, Jadoro (? Spectral Indrik) but this is mostly where our other DPS decided to pull the rest of the dungeon trying to find a "safer" jump point for the central doughnut altar.
Archdruid Deyvic had mechanics that were only half understood by the group, or more importantly ignored, but we got through it in the end. Still dealt with the same sort of feedback despite it being a new, never-before-seen dungeon.
"Our damage output feels lower, our healing received feels lower and because of that our skill usage and resource usage is higher. Inbound damage from content is the same. It's less fun if we have lost a lot of performance and have to regain it through different itemization or relearning the game."
I couldn't get much additional combat feedback from the three due to the newer content attempted, but on a more positive note, there has been nothing but glowing praise for the Lost Depths DLC dungeons as a whole. Mechanics are fresh and enjoyable, challenging but not impossible for these three and while Graven Deep is the "toughest mechanical dungeon" they've experienced to date, they still enjoyed the content and the way both Graven Deep and Earthen Root Enclave were designed.
Visually, they are "beautiful and stunning dungeon designs", so kudos to Zenimax for that aspect.
The longer you stay here, the more danger you are in.4 -
Xenite✭✭✭chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »If the people in your group that have Oakensoul haven't already you might have them try mixing some heavy attacks in as the damage is significantly better with the new Empower
I was discussing this with my wife this morning and we are both expecting them to nerf empower next and or lightning staff. Been seeing tons of new builds all focused on heavy attacks and I just switched a MagBlade to a Noble Duelist/Oakensoul/Lightning staff build and it's actually very good.
She was telling me how she killed a couple dragons this morning and just about everyone was spamming lightning staff heavy attacks. They made LA/DoT builds so laughably bad people are switching over to Empower/HA builds so much it's almost inevitable they are going to gut that next.
8 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »If the people in your group that have Oakensoul haven't already you might have them try mixing some heavy attacks in as the damage is significantly better with the new Empower
I was discussing this with my wife this morning and we are both expecting them to nerf empower next and or lightning staff. Been seeing tons of new builds all focused on heavy attacks and I just switched a MagBlade to a Noble Duelist/Oakensoul/Lightning staff build and it's actually very good.
She was telling me how she killed a couple dragons this morning and just about everyone was spamming lightning staff heavy attacks. They made LA/DoT builds so laughably bad people are switching over to Empower/HA builds so much it's almost inevitable they are going to gut that next.
i don't think so. they are kind of rubbish compared to a "standard" build. it only works for PvE so there is no dramas about people using this.0 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TL;DR
Can someone summarize this please?
… lol
The men of a family (son, father, uncle, +someone else I think?) play ESO casually once a week on a game night, running content slowly and learning it as they go on. They've been trying to clear vet dungeons, currently City of Ash 2. U34, they could clear it and maybe get a deathless run, and were working towards doing personal small time speed runs. Now they can't even do some easier dungeons on normal mode without trouble, and one of the members of the group (keeping in mind they're all related) is thinking of just not playing this game anymore due to the changes that came with U35.
All in all, a very normal response for this update and something I've been seeing everywhere.13 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »If the people in your group that have Oakensoul haven't already you might have them try mixing some heavy attacks in as the damage is significantly better with the new Empower
I was discussing this with my wife this morning and we are both expecting them to nerf empower next and or lightning staff. Been seeing tons of new builds all focused on heavy attacks and I just switched a MagBlade to a Noble Duelist/Oakensoul/Lightning staff build and it's actually very good.
She was telling me how she killed a couple dragons this morning and just about everyone was spamming lightning staff heavy attacks. They made LA/DoT builds so laughably bad people are switching over to Empower/HA builds so much it's almost inevitable they are going to gut that next.
i don't think so. they are kind of rubbish compared to a "standard" build. it only works for PvE so there is no dramas about people using this.
Yeah and this new HA meta heavily favors tab targeted ranged attacks in PvP. Good luck staying close enough to mobile players long enough to get off two handed or werewolf heavy attacks.1 -
endgamesmug✭✭✭✭Well im back to farming resources and fishing till maybe u36 has something going for it. Vet Graven Deep runs are a real slog1
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VXer✭✭✭TL;DR
Can someone summarize this please?
… lol
The men of a family (son, father, uncle, +someone else I think?) play ESO casually once a week on a game night, running content slowly and learning it as they go on. They've been trying to clear vet dungeons, currently City of Ash 2. U34, they could clear it and maybe get a deathless run, and were working towards doing personal small time speed runs. Now they can't even do some easier dungeons on normal mode without trouble, and one of the members of the group (keeping in mind they're all related) is thinking of just not playing this game anymore due to the changes that came with U35.
All in all, a very normal response for this update and something I've been seeing everywhere.
OP here - Pretty much on point, with the exception of the "plus one" being related. Might as well be given he's been in the picture since I was born 30-something years ago, but not familial.
The longer you stay here, the more danger you are in.1 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭Hey Zenimax,
We (my 65 yr old father, his twin brother, and their childhood friend) run as a group every AEST Monday night, or AEST Tuesday when maintenance patches occur. While unrelated to U35, our Australian timezone and connectivity establish some minor challenges with latency. It's not the end of the world with Elder Scrolls Online but I do know what the difference between 300ms and 20ms looks like even with the necessary buffers.
Last AEST Tuesday night, we went through patch notes together. My father plays the healer of the group, a Templar. He enjoys the game but has never really gotten past a hunt & peck style skill bar playstyle. I'm sure you all know the type, looking down at the keyboard to find the key to press and then looking up to make sure it's the right skill on the skill bar.
He was feeling a little concerned there might be added pressure with the HPS/HoT adjustments because he knows he's slow at reactions and doesn't have the greatest uptimes on static HoTs. He panic resorts to using Illustrious Healing as a spammable until he's out of Magicka and presses R instead of E when trying to loot a corpse and drops us a tasty ultimate to cheekily proc a synergy off. We have a laugh about it, but it sets the tone on what to expect.
My uncle plays a Dragonknight Tank. With my assistance through in-game gold and hard-won PvP farming we've managed to get him (mostly) optimal in set up with Powerful Assault, Drake's Rush, Spaulder of Ruin and a Baron Thirsk helmet after I scummed hundreds of Key Shards so he could sneak into Imperial Vaults to play lottery until he got a Medium Baron Thirsk helmet. It's the right substitute for a 1-piece Magma Incarnate and more accessible than the Veteran Dread Cellar run by a long run. He's probably the more META-focused player out of the three.
His first comment was incoming healing being affected without a damage loss from monsters would result in more windows for mistakes. Not opportunities, but mistakes.
Their childhood friend is our second DPS player and one of the "play as you want to play" type players, and that's okay. I don't mind him ignoring my advice for better gear setup, or skill usage. He's enjoying himself and in normal Dungeons was able to successfully complete content without feeling left behind. That has always been the case with our group though. Fun should come first, but we still want to try progress because it feels good to complete something you haven't been able to do before.
He has nerve damage in 3 out of 4 of his fingers on his left hand, which has caused problems for what many would consider simple mechanics like blocking, or bash. For most part, this actually means he has resorted to running Gaze of Sithis as a mitigation approach. It's not an elegant solution and doesn't help in the grand scheme of things but we make do with that limitation. Oakensoul Ring was highly sought after by both my father and this childhood friend because of their shortcomings (both skill and physical) that they felt could be corrected by the item.
Still, mostly, serves its purpose and we all agreed it was an over-tuned item in U34 but that is not the point of this post.
Finally, of the four players in our group - There's me. A CP 1600+ player, who follows META choices with builds and skills, and I've been playing ESO since Beta. I'm not a sweaty player, but I've stuck around through several iterations and have always maintained my subscription to ESO when able. I don't often play outside of these AEST Monday/Tuesday nights, except when a few US-based friends play over the weekend.
Collectively, we're not great players. We aren't pushing 130K DPS or breaking any records, but we have been progressing, albeit slowly, through Normal and Veteran content. Update 34 and High Isle chapter was the first time I successfully completed Veteran Vateshran! Great milestone for progress and accomplishment.
We were pushing for Veteran City of Ash II in U34. Excluding some dumb moments when I, the shot-caller and group lead, forgot that Bone Colossus could one-shot me and didn't let the tank grab aggro first; we were excitingly pushing for our first No Death run of Veteran City of Ash II as a group. We still finished on Veteran difficulty, but could you imagine? So close to the group completing a no-death run. If we had that, we were looking at Hard Mode and potentially attempting a speed run.
Now you have some idea of the group dynamics that I play with every gaming night. So with that said, I think I can go on to our first experiences in Update 35 thus far.
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I read out the patch notes, covering the changes for damage adjustments and the group laughed nervously. Thought it was crazy. The immediate text of the Patch Notes was disheartening, to say the least. Stamina Templars may as well not exist with Stampede and Biting Jabs nerfs, while Healing over Time adjustments meant we expected wipes because the windows of punishment would be greater. Less HPS buffer to shore up our own mistakes immediately had us nervous about trying a Veteran dungeon.
Their childhood friend was ready to quit and go play Guild Wars (not Guild Wars 2) with his daughters instead of launching the game ever again. But we swallowed our concerns and loaded into Elder Scrolls Online.
We ran a random, normal dungeon and got Darkshade Caverns II. Easy, right? We've done this on normal several times with a handful of Veteran attempts attempted and maybe 1-2 of those runs being successful. I was running through on a Stamina Necromancer which normally has no problem with the content. First time in a long time, my health dropped below 5% HP on the first boss when we pulled all the possessed miners to the Fallen Foreman, as per our usual strategy. Immediately we felt the impact of Stampede being nerfed. We felt the impact of all the damage loss across the board, to healing over time adjustments with no change to incoming damage from enemies.
The whole time, we commented on our experience amongst ourselves and the general consensus was that damage was down, survivability was down, but the content remained the same.
We eventually completed the dungeon, but it was a good 25-30 minutes to do which we otherwise could do in closer to 15 minutes pre-U34. What used to be a relatively chill, faster run with less care about trash pulls, became slower more meticulous play. This was not rewarding and collectively, did not provide a sense that the "floor" was raised to allow harder/later-game content that was supposed to be more accessible.
I swapped to a Stamina Templar for the next dungeon, knowing full well the potential self-loathing I would have by the end of the night.
The combination of my skill selection (Biting Jabs, Endless Hail, Stampede, Razor Caltrops, Mystic Orb...) taking a nerf meant I might as well have been hitting enemies with a wet noodle. In group trash pulls, Biting Jabs felt less atrocious but otherwise was not worth using. Mystic Orb was noticeably weaker. Stampede was an obvious drop. Caltrops with lower damage wasn't too noticeable, but combining all the above into one character meant I lost a lot of damage, to my own chagrin. I had more spammable damage from Blazing Spear than current Biting Jabs, but resource management was also problematic. In the end, I resorted to playing off-healer with 10-15K DPS coming out of a character than used to perform closer to 28-34k DPS in normal dungeons.
I can safely say, it was a negative experience and I will be resetting my Templar to a different configuration, or shelving it until a future change.
Our second dungeon of the night was Graven Deep. Now, content-wise - we enjoyed Graven Deep. The secret bosses' pre-mechanic design with the traps and levers, etc, fantastic experience and was enjoyable especially given the secret bosses have relatively simple mechanics but unique, thought-provoking means to reach (like say, Black Drake Villa secret bosses). The final boss and the mechanics required were ridiculously challenging for us, but plenty of fun and rewarding when we finished the fight. Graven Deep was *long* for us, but newer dungeons normally are until we've gotten used to the mechanics.
Update 35 has, for the moment, entirely dashed that Veteran City of Ash II prospect for my group. I intend to attempt it with them next week but we are not expecting good results and we're scrambling to work out our group composition and changes to earn back what we should have rightfully already had.
Will we continue playing Elder Scrolls Online? I will be, at least. I have every intention to continue posting here in this thread as my group's experience with all the changes kick over but so far it has not been pleasant at all and initial thoughts on the patch show a disconnect from the aspired goal of "accessibility" in this patch and the actual outcome.
Edit: We're not elite, world-record-breaking players. While some might adapt and be able to return to something close to their U34 performance, we're not able to make those sweeping changes without the time invested and fun sucked out of the game in the process.
This change has set our progression backward and has made content harder to get through and complete. While I entirely understand my experiences here don't follow hard, statistical evidence as was provided in several PTS feedback posts, it's the lived experience of a mixed group of players who just want to have fun earning the small victories and progression milestones while we still can without having to drastically change to meet a landscape that was supposed to make combat easier for us.
It really can be more helpfull for players, but they need to do some more little changes:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/616336/u35-feels-really-bad-but-it-may-be-can-be-really-good-if#latest
With current standartization skills timers becomes to random to be helpfull for new players and feels bad for more exp players.
If all skill timers be like 20/24 seconds - players could learn do HA + dots rotation and than add LA+ skill and HA+skill on some part of rotation with no big lose of damage. Than adapt to more hard MA+skill+bash rotations if they want - but difference in damage would be too small that you do not need to do it if you are not cybersportsmen.
At least ground AOEs of weapons that proc enchants need better timing like other dots have now about 20/24 seconds with different morphs. Because rotations now feel really bad and it is much harder than before. If they fix it - game really can become more simple and accessable for players. For more exp players we already have good options with MA/LA/bash/skill adding with cast of spammable if they are bored. But it is a little buged and need some fix with MA because it is a little buged now.
May be with little fixes to animations (I am ok with it, but some players do not like how it looks like - that you do not see animations during it. For me it looks cool)
So they just did not make little important thingth, thats why all look as bad.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on August 30, 2022 9:10AM1 -
Ghaleb✭✭✭✭✭SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »[…] If all skill timers be like 20/24 second […]
PTS week 1 had long timer durations for all skills and that was one of the main criticism’s as you spent ages, casting one spammable, as all your DoTs ran for ages. There was nothing dynamic or engaging with this type of fighting.
Engage > DoT 1 > DoT 2 > DoT 3 > DoT 4 > DoT 5 > DoT 6 > DoT 7 > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > and start with DoT 1 again.
And that assumes all DoTs being 20 seconds. If you want 24 seconds, you can add 4 more spammables obviously.
And yes, I know there are mobile fights but that would make it even worse as you’d need to apply your DoTs first to do sufficient damage and before they are applied the boss moves (newest DLC dungeons say “hi”).
This combat approach? I never used macros. But for this thing? I, in the best case would have needed to have a macro as I would read a book in parallel to playing combat in ESO. In the more realistic case, I’d cancel my subscription and stop playing at the end of it (as I have done with U35).6 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »[…] If all skill timers be like 20/24 second […]
PTS week 1 had long timer durations for all skills and that was one of the main criticism’s as you spent ages, casting one spammable, as all your DoTs ran for ages. There was nothing dynamic or engaging with this type of fighting.
Engage > DoT 1 > DoT 2 > DoT 3 > DoT 4 > DoT 5 > DoT 6 > DoT 7 > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > Spammable > and start with DoT 1 again.
And that assumes all DoTs being 20 seconds. If you want 24 seconds, you can add 4 more spammables obviously.
And yes, I know there are mobile fights but that would make it even worse as you’d need to apply your DoTs first to do sufficient damage and before they are applied the boss moves (newest DLC dungeons say “hi”).
This combat approach? I never used macros. But for this thing? I, in the best case would have needed to have a macro as I would read a book in parallel to playing combat in ESO. In the more realistic case, I’d cancel my subscription and stop playing at the end of it (as I have done with U35).
20/24 second dots and 10/14 ground weapon skills are worse than 20/24 and 20/24 seconds ground weapon skills in any look on it.
The same time some classes have skills with time: 4/5/10/14/15/18/20/24/35 seconds, whyle other classes timers are more stable. It do not really look like standartization.
And yes, longer time is not the best possible change - but longer timers with random numbers looks like even worse change.0 -
Ghaleb✭✭✭✭✭SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »20/24 second dots and 10/14 ground weapon skills are worse than 20/24 and 20/24 seconds ground weapon skills in any look on it.
You did not address the issue I highlighted of combat in ESO regressing to something my 5-year old daughter could do without issues and interest, as it would be considered boring. I see you push for the 20/24 seconds timer all over the forum but please elaborate how you would address the boringness of the combat you are asking for?
Especially as many, also in the posts related to U35 and in feedback to week 1 of the PTS have highlighted, that they are playing ESO due to the more action related combat feeling when engaging in ESO.
We can make everything more standardized and through that accessible. Heck, lets standardize the Forumla 1, limit all cars to 30 kph and have my mother join them in going for the championship. Would be boring you say? Then you get my point.
If you want somewhat less-abled players access more content you have a wide range of options. None of which ZOS took up and I am tired of asking that question as either way no meaningful reply will be provided.
Option 1: Oakensoul Ring for PvE
Was a good option. Some cried out that it is too easy to achieve big DPS with that ring. If so, let it add stacks to the dmg of a player with eg. a delayed timer to identify long lasting fights in e.g. vet dungeons or trials and limit the stacks / dps. You make things more accessible.
Option 2: Add a freakin tutorial worth its name
A lot of the issues "addressed" via U35 comes from players not being aware of combat mechanics. T E A C H them for gods sake. Use Maelstrom arena as blueprint and have them dodge, block, interrupt, HA, LA weave with skills and understand the differences between DoT, AoE, direct damage and e.g. champion points. With each new chapter you have a new starting point for new players. Add that tutorial in the beginning, when most players either way don't know what they are doing. Teach them while they are young.
Option 3: Buff sets predominantely used by non-meta-players
Allegedly a lot of low-mid tier players are using non-meta sets. Reasons don't matter. ZOS should have the data. Buff the sets mostly in use by non-meta players. Will one of these sets become a new meta for endgame players? So what? They anyway have the achievements. They anyway have the skins. They are trying to score 2, 5, 20, 19354 points more than the other group as they like to be the best in their trait. We also didn't see the sports world add weights to Usain Bolts feet, as he was too fast for everybody else. The world said: Good job, mate.
If ZOS would have been responsible he would have received weight on his ankle and been shot in the leg. So, lucky Usain I would say...
And that is just from the top of my head within 5-6 minutes. If I'd get paid for it I would probably draft up more ideas but as I paid ZOS in the past to be their test dummy, I'll stop here.
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
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its okay ish in pve, still does ok with deadly (about the same dmg as other dots)
its horrendous in pve though, last night i was running around and still had it equipped, i was hitting players with maelstrom dot for like 125 dmg (hemorrhaging status effect was doing more dmg at about 300)
there were a few times i registered the maelstrom dot hitting a player for as low as 13 dmg, im assuming they were doing a mist form at this point, but seriously 13 dmg, that is darn close to single digit
needless to say i quickly swapped to the weapon i made to replace it, the asylum 2h (for ult gen) so i wouldnt have to change my bar lolplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
rexagamemnon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Greeed2025 wrote: »Lol imagine excellent, constructive and honest feedback will be read by the combat team. Good luck my friend! Everything we say is just kneejerk reaction
Ya that was a very nice way for someone at ZOS to say F U to the community. Still no apology about that, unbelievable.10 -
Drammanoth✭✭✭✭✭
Rules of service #0 - if you own your mistake, fix them, show that you care, the customer will not only stay with you, but also recommend your service to others.rexagamemnon wrote: »
Ya that was a very nice way for someone at ZOS to say F U to the community. Still no apology about that, unbelievable.Greeed2025 wrote: »Lol imagine excellent, constructive and honest feedback will be read by the combat team. Good luck my friend! Everything we say is just kneejerk reaction
For the service provider - money + good rep
For the service receiver - certainty that he / she is in good hands.
But the fact of the matter is, as long as people play the game, ZOS has nothing to worry about. The old ones leave, new ones come, and the business goes as usual.
Also, we don't have any data as to how many people in total have left the game - ZOS does, but they won't obviously share (can't blame them though) - so yeah...
Wait and see...
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Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rexagamemnon wrote: »Greeed2025 wrote: »Lol imagine excellent, constructive and honest feedback will be read by the combat team. Good luck my friend! Everything we say is just kneejerk reaction
Ya that was a very nice way for someone at ZOS to say F U to the community. Still no apology about that, unbelievable.
Not surprising how many people 'experienced the changes', but still 'went off the deep end', is it? Can you imagine how many more deep enders there would be if the week one proposed changes had gone live?2 -
VXer✭✭✭
Makes sense. There's been a few content creators who I have seen still listing MA 2H as a back bar option, but I imagine it's more due to burnout and not optimising to the absolute BiS setup after recoiling from U35.
In the end, regardless of META choice, it'll come down to grinding for gear in dungeons or trials we don't quite have the capacity for anymore, and that kinda sucks that my group and I are forced to do that in order to be at the same progression level as U34.The longer you stay here, the more danger you are in.0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
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Makes sense. There's been a few content creators who I have seen still listing MA 2H as a back bar option, but I imagine it's more due to burnout and not optimising to the absolute BiS setup after recoiling from U35.
In the end, regardless of META choice, it'll come down to grinding for gear in dungeons or trials we don't quite have the capacity for anymore, and that kinda sucks that my group and I are forced to do that in order to be at the same progression level as U34.
My MA tooltip damage went down to 500 per second. Combined with the nerf to Stampede, it’s at least a 50% damage loss. There are far too many better options available, although I agree it’s often hard to break habits or waste time and gold chasing the new meta every three months.4 -
I really tried to give it a chance, but my overall thought is that its a dumpster-fire, at least from a pvp perspective. Feel like the final nail for glass cannon play, the meta is drasticlly shifted towards generally being more tanky and fights are standoffs. Bg is 12 wardsns and dk's wittiling away opponents until one side has more players and ava is pushed the most into being useless outside a group than any patch i can remember( after 9 years on and off)
im done soloing, ill do a few more pvp raids and if i dont change my feeling ill be waiting for adjustments in the next patch. and if the adjustments are sets behind a paywall that brings burst and pressure back up... fingers crossed they didnt ruin everything to push items that bring it back up to par but... that is the way companies seem to be going
Edited by dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO on August 31, 2022 3:07AM2