U35 feels really bad, but it (may be) can be really good if:
SPR_of_HA_community
✭✭✭✭
Greetings.
We have some suggestions how to make U35->U36 better.
What do you think about it ?
---
First of all, ZOS - we want you to stop big changes !
Players are already tired to change gear each update ( just for the sake of having just the same DPS as before ).
Current update - may be is not too bad. But it has some very bad parts of it, that need some fix.
To make empower PVE only buff, may be, was not as bad solution with 80% buff to HA. But classes like DK can have about 90%(empower+moltan armaments) add to HA in both PVE and PVP and now with changes of unique DK buff it feels bad for this class. But all other classes can play HA in PVE now, so it was not in vain. But may be Moltan Armaments need some little buff to its effect now (like adding a small dot effect on hits + current effects), it really feels weak for DK unique skill now.
The most big problems with patch U35:
1)A lot of bugs
2)Rotations feels really bad on some classes.
To fix this problems we suggest to make all skills length near the same.
As example DK in rotation now can have skills with length of:
4,5,10,15,18,20,24,35 seconds.
It is not only harder to do such rotation, but it feels really bad. If all skills would be like: 20/24 seconds it may be is not such bad with U35 patch.
Current dots have 20-24 seconds length. But ground AOEs are 10/14/18 seconds. It do not feel good. If ground AOEs have same length as DOTs may be players will not be such dissapointed in U35.
It can be fixed by different ways, but - as example - you can add to maelstorm weapons like bow or staff + 10 seconds bonus length to its skill duration + the same damage bonus as it already has.
So people who did maelstorm arena can play more comfortable with such weapons whyle other players can use different sets on back bar + as example, some artefacts - for the same DPS or some proc set for DPS and special effect (as example dark convergence).
Some dots have 20 second length and some dots have 24 second length. We suggest to increase to dots with 20 second length that have some buff effect on it its buff effect to 25 seconds. So 2 groups of players with harder rotation and more casual both will benefit from it. Casual players will be less punished, whyle more exp player can have a little more DPS with harder rotation.
---
TESO is not eSport game - it is very casual friendly. U35 - with fixes I wright before: can help a lot of players to pass content with more comfort and pleasure. But more exped players can get hit now.
For the new players such simple rotation will feel better, but more exped players can feel a little boring. So we suggest to add a little kibersport elements. Now when players can pass content on HA and rotate a little simpler - some of them can become a little boring in future, if rotation will look like 9 dots + 15 spammables.
But if cast this 15 spammables like LA+ spammable it is more dinamic. If player has choise to have near the same damage with empower: 7HA+7spammables = 14LA+14 spammables - it is good for more casual players. For more damage they will need to do (DOTS+la)*x+ (HA+spammable)*y or do all skills with LA.
But even doing 15 spammables with LA can become boring, so it can be done with LA+bash, than MA, than MA+bash and may be MA+bash+bash.
Rotation with MA+bash is harder than LA+bash, so we think it is good if some thing harder is better and have more DPS. But such difference must not be important for passing any content so all HA/LA/MA players needs to have enough damage to pass any trifectas. But it can become important for people who want to do records - so the most skilled players with the hardest possible rotations and best gaming will have best timers and be more respected, because it really is hard to do ! But other players will not be punished from any content (because it is not needed).
Even 1-2% difference will be important for records, but wil not be needed to pass trifectas.
---
PVP changes:
More class unique skills. PVP is different from PVE. PVE needs stability in DPS. PVP needs short burst of damage, good healing, controll of the opponent, sustain and positioning.
Some abilitys power can be fixed with battle spirit, but skills that gives some positioning will not be important for PVE. But for PVP it is very good thing. Skills that can let you jump/fly back, jump-fly on some little buildings or stones, teleport in front or on some shade - or jostle away enemy are very important. To add unique abilitys to different classes like this can do PVP more interesting and dinamic to play. Now, when any class can pull enemy with fighters guide ability, classes with no such unique abilitys feels really bad, so such classes need more unique skills for PVP.
It can be really fun. The same fun you can make by adding effect like mud ball has for DK stager skill
May be it will become a little more unique and will provoke enemy player to attack you to punish the insolent. It can be fun too
---
Set changes:
Do not nerf sets. PLS 🙏- stop on current patch. Better do useless sets that no one use better. Take some sets of current META like standart. And upgrade other old sets to be + - the same in DPS.
As example if some set gives 350 with last bonus and some gives the same 350, but you need to do some thing special for that - last set is useless. At least make it better in some thing, as example:
When you dodge you get 600 spd/wpd for 6 seconds, call down 10 seconds. Even with the same or a little less DPS but more DPS in a small period of time: such sets can be a little better in some conditions, but not to OP. So it can become usefull.
Do not nerf old sets, much better: take some sets as standart and make other sets playable and interesting to use by upgrading their values to may be little worse but to values near sets you take as measurement standart.
---
Inflation and new poisons:
Some players want more powerfull poisons. As an idea - you can add poisons with power (same DPS) of current glyphs on gold infused weapon. Some thing like (Spirit shots/soul shots) that work as glyphs on every HA/LA/MA/weapon ability (and as example have 1 second calldown).
It can help a little balance PVE and PVP and make other traits more usefull. The same time it will not make DPS a lot more, than it is now.
Such poisons can be more expensive than current poisons and have cool animation of explosion of different colors based on effect.
It can let effectivly use boss panels weapons as primary weapons. The same time will not give big burst to DPS. Such system (work a little different but idea is the same) exist in lineage2 game and those Spirit and soul shots sounds and animation on hit is some thing - a lot of players really love. The same time it is a good way to fight Inflation - if some of its components for craft is only possible to buy from NPC. As example - special spirit water or container - that you need for craft of each such soul or spirit shot.
---
A lot of players beg you: "Pls stop big changes !!!" Players are tired to farm new sets each update, just to have the same DPS as before. PLS stop nerf old skills and sets. Better for all of players: just upgrade some bad sets and give it a little more stats.
A lot of players want different versions for skills ! Some one wants stamina whip, others mana whip !
Current whip is both stamina and mana and ... some sets do not register it as mana skill ... as example Undaunted Infiltrator
And skill is not welcomed for both such players.
Pls do not nerf some skills for one category of players by given it to others !
We need spell craft like newer before ! At least for the start it can only make ability cost from mana to stamina. Or both mana+stamina and option to change its damage type to Fire/Poison/Ice/... and etc for class skills ! This system can be upgrade in some thing more complex in future.
Current game is too standard already. We need some fun elements and systems to make characters more unique. We need more unique class skills that have some cool and usefull effects, not only in damage part but in buffs/debuffs/movement and etc.
And the more important:
We need more stable game. It change to much ! We are already tired to adapt to have the same DPS as in patches before. We feel no progress in our characters because of this constant nerfs. And TESO is MMO the same time. Even if we get no progress at least stop nerfs to force players upgrade gear each update to just be the same as before.
Add new content, it is OK if it will be nerfed a little next patch. But pls do not nerf old sets. Better upgrade it to make usefull. Than we will not only have 10 META sets to choose from, but a lot of good sets anybody can take some thing he really likes.
Thank you.
Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on August 29, 2022 3:06PM We have some suggestions how to make U35->U36 better.
What do you think about it ?
---
First of all, ZOS - we want you to stop big changes !
Players are already tired to change gear each update ( just for the sake of having just the same DPS as before ).
Current update - may be is not too bad. But it has some very bad parts of it, that need some fix.
To make empower PVE only buff, may be, was not as bad solution with 80% buff to HA. But classes like DK can have about 90%(empower+moltan armaments) add to HA in both PVE and PVP and now with changes of unique DK buff it feels bad for this class. But all other classes can play HA in PVE now, so it was not in vain. But may be Moltan Armaments need some little buff to its effect now (like adding a small dot effect on hits + current effects), it really feels weak for DK unique skill now.
The most big problems with patch U35:
1)A lot of bugs
2)Rotations feels really bad on some classes.
To fix this problems we suggest to make all skills length near the same.
As example DK in rotation now can have skills with length of:
4,5,10,15,18,20,24,35 seconds.
It is not only harder to do such rotation, but it feels really bad. If all skills would be like: 20/24 seconds it may be is not such bad with U35 patch.
Current dots have 20-24 seconds length. But ground AOEs are 10/14/18 seconds. It do not feel good. If ground AOEs have same length as DOTs may be players will not be such dissapointed in U35.
It can be fixed by different ways, but - as example - you can add to maelstorm weapons like bow or staff + 10 seconds bonus length to its skill duration + the same damage bonus as it already has.
So people who did maelstorm arena can play more comfortable with such weapons whyle other players can use different sets on back bar + as example, some artefacts - for the same DPS or some proc set for DPS and special effect (as example dark convergence).
Some dots have 20 second length and some dots have 24 second length. We suggest to increase to dots with 20 second length that have some buff effect on it its buff effect to 25 seconds. So 2 groups of players with harder rotation and more casual both will benefit from it. Casual players will be less punished, whyle more exp player can have a little more DPS with harder rotation.
---
TESO is not eSport game - it is very casual friendly. U35 - with fixes I wright before: can help a lot of players to pass content with more comfort and pleasure. But more exped players can get hit now.
For the new players such simple rotation will feel better, but more exped players can feel a little boring. So we suggest to add a little kibersport elements. Now when players can pass content on HA and rotate a little simpler - some of them can become a little boring in future, if rotation will look like 9 dots + 15 spammables.
But if cast this 15 spammables like LA+ spammable it is more dinamic. If player has choise to have near the same damage with empower: 7HA+7spammables = 14LA+14 spammables - it is good for more casual players. For more damage they will need to do (DOTS+la)*x+ (HA+spammable)*y or do all skills with LA.
But even doing 15 spammables with LA can become boring, so it can be done with LA+bash, than MA, than MA+bash and may be MA+bash+bash.
Rotation with MA+bash is harder than LA+bash, so we think it is good if some thing harder is better and have more DPS. But such difference must not be important for passing any content so all HA/LA/MA players needs to have enough damage to pass any trifectas. But it can become important for people who want to do records - so the most skilled players with the hardest possible rotations and best gaming will have best timers and be more respected, because it really is hard to do ! But other players will not be punished from any content (because it is not needed).
Even 1-2% difference will be important for records, but wil not be needed to pass trifectas.
---
PVP changes:
More class unique skills. PVP is different from PVE. PVE needs stability in DPS. PVP needs short burst of damage, good healing, controll of the opponent, sustain and positioning.
Some abilitys power can be fixed with battle spirit, but skills that gives some positioning will not be important for PVE. But for PVP it is very good thing. Skills that can let you jump/fly back, jump-fly on some little buildings or stones, teleport in front or on some shade - or jostle away enemy are very important. To add unique abilitys to different classes like this can do PVP more interesting and dinamic to play. Now, when any class can pull enemy with fighters guide ability, classes with no such unique abilitys feels really bad, so such classes need more unique skills for PVP.
It can be really fun. The same fun you can make by adding effect like mud ball has for DK stager skill
May be it will become a little more unique and will provoke enemy player to attack you to punish the insolent. It can be fun too ---
Set changes:
Do not nerf sets. PLS 🙏- stop on current patch. Better do useless sets that no one use better. Take some sets of current META like standart. And upgrade other old sets to be + - the same in DPS.
As example if some set gives 350 with last bonus and some gives the same 350, but you need to do some thing special for that - last set is useless. At least make it better in some thing, as example:
When you dodge you get 600 spd/wpd for 6 seconds, call down 10 seconds. Even with the same or a little less DPS but more DPS in a small period of time: such sets can be a little better in some conditions, but not to OP. So it can become usefull.
Do not nerf old sets, much better: take some sets as standart and make other sets playable and interesting to use by upgrading their values to may be little worse but to values near sets you take as measurement standart.
---
Inflation and new poisons:
Some players want more powerfull poisons. As an idea - you can add poisons with power (same DPS) of current glyphs on gold infused weapon. Some thing like (Spirit shots/soul shots) that work as glyphs on every HA/LA/MA/weapon ability (and as example have 1 second calldown).
It can help a little balance PVE and PVP and make other traits more usefull. The same time it will not make DPS a lot more, than it is now.
Such poisons can be more expensive than current poisons and have cool animation of explosion of different colors based on effect.
It can let effectivly use boss panels weapons as primary weapons. The same time will not give big burst to DPS. Such system (work a little different but idea is the same) exist in lineage2 game and those Spirit and soul shots sounds and animation on hit is some thing - a lot of players really love. The same time it is a good way to fight Inflation - if some of its components for craft is only possible to buy from NPC. As example - special spirit water or container - that you need for craft of each such soul or spirit shot.
---
A lot of players beg you: "Pls stop big changes !!!" Players are tired to farm new sets each update, just to have the same DPS as before. PLS stop nerf old skills and sets. Better for all of players: just upgrade some bad sets and give it a little more stats.
A lot of players want different versions for skills ! Some one wants stamina whip, others mana whip !
Current whip is both stamina and mana and ... some sets do not register it as mana skill ... as example Undaunted Infiltrator
And skill is not welcomed for both such players.
Pls do not nerf some skills for one category of players by given it to others !
We need spell craft like newer before ! At least for the start it can only make ability cost from mana to stamina. Or both mana+stamina and option to change its damage type to Fire/Poison/Ice/... and etc for class skills ! This system can be upgrade in some thing more complex in future.
Current game is too standard already. We need some fun elements and systems to make characters more unique. We need more unique class skills that have some cool and usefull effects, not only in damage part but in buffs/debuffs/movement and etc.
And the more important:
We need more stable game. It change to much ! We are already tired to adapt to have the same DPS as in patches before. We feel no progress in our characters because of this constant nerfs. And TESO is MMO the same time. Even if we get no progress at least stop nerfs to force players upgrade gear each update to just be the same as before.
Add new content, it is OK if it will be nerfed a little next patch. But pls do not nerf old sets. Better upgrade it to make usefull. Than we will not only have 10 META sets to choose from, but a lot of good sets anybody can take some thing he really likes.
Thank you.
3
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Drammanoth✭✭✭✭✭Alternatively, someone is making BAD decisions, and forcing them onto the respective devs, and the devs have no choice but to comply.
Or maybe I'm just being an optimistic fool0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭Drammanoth wrote: »Alternatively, someone is making BAD decisions, and forcing them onto the respective devs, and the devs have no choice but to comply.
Or maybe I'm just being an optimistic fool
Based on current game state: what do you dislike, why and how you want it to be (fixed) ? Possible ways to fix problems ?Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on August 30, 2022 10:23AM0 -
FluffyBird✭✭✭✭✭
✭About sets: my biggest gripe is when devs completely change how a set works. Like Pelinal's Aptitude (they didn't tweak it following hybridization, they just messed it up horribly) or Crushing Wall (at least it's still within "making a certain skill stronger" area).
The only case where that would be acceptable is when some game mechanic is removed so that set would do nothing at all if left as is.1 -
thorwyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hi Succuby.And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon1 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭FluffyBird wrote: »About sets: my biggest gripe is when devs completely change how a set works. Like Pelinal's Aptitude (they didn't tweak it following hybridization, they just messed it up horribly) or Crushing Wall (at least it's still within "making a certain skill stronger" area).
The only case where that would be acceptable is when some game mechanic is removed so that set would do nothing at all if left as is.
Some little changes in values do not really feel such bad as full change of old sets or skills.
For different categories of players spell craft can be really helpfull.
Some builds need mana skill/some stamina skill. I hope system like that will be added in future. Or Moltan whip will become changing - Stamina/Mana each patch because stam and mana dk wants to use it 0 -
GloatingSwine✭✭✭✭SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »
To fix this problems we suggest to make all skills length near the same.
As example DK in rotation now can have skills with length of:
4,5,10,15,18,20,24,35 seconds.
It is not only harder to do such rotation, but it feels really bad. If all skills would be like: 20/24 seconds it may be is not such bad with U35 patch.
If all skills had 20/24 second duration then every class would feel exactly the same in play. Everything would have to have the same effect budget because everything has the same duration.
What durations need is a common mathematical factor, an integer greater than 1 that all durations divide equally by.
That would mean that any combination of durations has regular overlaps where skills are recast together. That would mean that comfortable and memorable rotations could be produced which would allow more play without looking at timers.
I have suggested before that the common factor should be 3, with the overwhelming majority of durations being 6, 9, 12, and 18, with long effect buffs at 24, 36, and 72. That would allow classes to predominantly focus on two of those primary durations, making the natural rotations of different classes feel different.
It also means that the intensity of duration effects can be tuned such that short duration effects have higher damage but are resource intensive because they have to be recast more often, and longer duration effects are resource efficient and have lower damage but classes which use them will have more gaps to cast their spammer more, meaning that the source of damage also feels different for different classes.
And it would need to apply to *all* effects. Anything that currently incraeses a duration would instead reduce the cost of affected abilities.0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭GloatingSwine wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »
To fix this problems we suggest to make all skills length near the same.
As example DK in rotation now can have skills with length of:
4,5,10,15,18,20,24,35 seconds.
It is not only harder to do such rotation, but it feels really bad. If all skills would be like: 20/24 seconds it may be is not such bad with U35 patch.
If all skills had 20/24 second duration then every class would feel exactly the same in play. Everything would have to have the same effect budget because everything has the same duration.
What durations need is a common mathematical factor, an integer greater than 1 that all durations divide equally by.
That would mean that any combination of durations has regular overlaps where skills are recast together. That would mean that comfortable and memorable rotations could be produced which would allow more play without looking at timers.
I have suggested before that the common factor should be 3, with the overwhelming majority of durations being 6, 9, 12, and 18, with long effect buffs at 24, 36, and 72. That would allow classes to predominantly focus on two of those primary durations, making the natural rotations of different classes feel different.
It also means that the intensity of duration effects can be tuned such that short duration effects have higher damage but are resource intensive because they have to be recast more often, and longer duration effects are resource efficient and have lower damage but classes which use them will have more gaps to cast their spammer more, meaning that the source of damage also feels different for different classes.
And it would need to apply to *all* effects. Anything that currently incraeses a duration would instead reduce the cost of affected abilities.
Last patch all the skills was the same 10/14 seconds. So it becomes even more strange that they become 10/14 / 20/24
I do not have problems with skills like 4 seconds before. The same I have no problems with skills that are 4 seconds now.
But I have new problems with skills that have 10/14/15/18/20/24/35 seconds now.
I do not see the reason to change one dots but make other with different timers. Some classes have less such problems the same time.
I am ok with 20/24/48 seconds skills.
It was better with 10/14 timers for me, but ok fine with 20/24 too.
But 10/14/15/18/20/24/35 - is some thing no one of people I ask likes.0 -
GloatingSwine✭✭✭✭Ground DoTs are about 10 seconds because that's about how long an enemy will stay still in it (if they're vaguely recently designed, older fights are more static). There's no point making them longer because they'll just be ticking on empty air and all their extra damage budget is wasted.
But yes, too many different durations that don't line up is bad.
But making them all the same is also bad.
Hence a common factor, so that you simply know that every second or third time you cast Skill A you also cast Skill B because their cooldowns line up nicely.0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭GloatingSwine wrote: »Ground DoTs are about 10 seconds because that's about how long an enemy will stay still in it (if they're vaguely recently designed, older fights are more static). There's no point making them longer because they'll just be ticking on empty air and all their extra damage budget is wasted.
But yes, too many different durations that don't line up is bad.
But making them all the same is also bad.
Hence a common factor, so that you simply know that every second or third time you cast Skill A you also cast Skill B because their cooldowns line up nicely.
Agree. But for at least weapon ground AOEs with maelstorm weapons that proc glypghs this time can be adjusted to the same time as dots are now (20/24 seconds). So if you need you can recast it, but if you need not - you can just do more normal rotation.
The same for buffs - if it would be the same length as class dots*x like it was before it would be much comfortable. Than buffs with bad timers.
So other ground AOEs can be unchanged. If it will not have really good numbers it is option not to use it or recast twice, if they do really good damage.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on August 30, 2022 1:50PM0 -
Naftal✭✭✭✭✭I prefer having different skill durations instead of same for everything. It's not dynamic at all to cast all your duration based skills and then spam spammable until the first one runs out and then repeat.0
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SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭I prefer having different skill durations instead of same for everything. It's not dynamic at all to cast all your duration based skills and then spam spammable until the first one runs out and then repeat.
At least make weapons ground skill 20/24 seconds with maelstorm weapons and class buff skills like = class dot time*2 like.
Other skills may be not as important. But for dots with 20 second duration + 20 seconds buff = make buff duration a little longer as the most long dots duration is. As example 20 second dot and 25 second buff.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on August 30, 2022 3:13PM0
