The state of No Proc Ravenwatch, a year later

Atrael7 · August 2022

On the 23rd of August it'll have been a year since the Ravenwatch Cyrodiil campaign was permanently made into a no proc environment and I thought it'd be worth taking a moment to stir up the old ghosts and talk about it and its future. In this post I'll provide a recap of why Ravenwatch is a no proc campaign and some suggestions for the devs to chew on if they intend for it to stay that way.

For those unfamiliar with the reasons why the campaign was made no proc in the first place, a bit of a history lesson - proc sets (sets that fire when some condition is met) used to have pretty harsh conditions behind them to restrict their power. There used to exist a small % chance for them to trigger on say, a light attack or a critical hit, but, as a result of an ongoing effort to reduce calculations performed by the server, a patch came along where those conditions were vastly simplified to the point where most of them became 100% guaranteed to proc. As a result, proc sets became rampant in PvP, for 6-7 months most of your death recaps were made up mostly, if not entirely, of procs. Sets like Venomous Smite, Sheer Venom, Unleashed Terror, Merciless Charge, Wrath of Elements, Caluurion's Legacy, Frenzied Momentum and others were pretty much everywhere because of the ease of access to damage and power they now brought with them. On top of that, when the CP rework patch came, everyone just gained a thousand extra weapon and spell damage and a few thousand extra health, stamina and magicka for free, which made said proc sets hit even harder. Kill times were pretty brutal, you could and would be killed in less than the time it took you to break free at times. So then, after months of complaints to address procs came the no proc patch, originally proposed to last 6 months while they worked on adjusting the power behind proc sets, and ultimately being reduced to a 3 month period after the uproar from the community. For 3 months all campaigns were restricted to about 20 or so sets, all stat based like Shacklebreaker and Crafty Alfiq.

The initial reaction from the community was positive and I remember seeing names I'd not seen in a long time returning to Cyrodiil to check out the changes. It was refreshing playing the game again, seeing skills and not procs on your death recap for a change (yes, it was that bad). This initial hype didn't last, however, and within weeks many people were already looking forward to having procs back, as the lack of sets made one of the game's main strengths - the theorycrafting around builds - all but non existent. With the Blackwood chapter procs were re-enabled once again on all campaigns, only to be once again disabled on Ravenwatch with the following patch. That was the last time we heard about procs from the developers and since August of 2021 Ravenwatch has remained no proc.

Now, I'm someone that's played on Ravenwatch pre- and post- no proc as my main server. And I gotta say, I'm concerned about its future. Ravenwatch, at least on PC EU, used to be as popular as Grey Host. I know that is not the case on other megaservers, but to us, it was as much a main campaign as the CP one. It used to be pop locked every day by 4-5 PM and it was always action packed. A year into no proc and Ravenwatch is a 1-2 bar ghost town till 8-9 PM, after which time it becomes the laggy playground of the ballgroups. I stopped logging in during the day as I see the same 10-20 people everywhere I go, there's noone left to fight. A lot of players have moved to Grey Host as they're sick of the limited selection of sets, or have just outright quit the game, and as for new players, which I often hear content creators recommending to go to Ravenwatch - I doubt most of them are even aware that the campaign has special rules enabled and that their sets more than likely don't work there, and even if they do, I doubt many will go out of their way to make a no proc setup and stick around.

Indeed, outside of the first few days of the recent midyear mayhem, I've felt that the server's population has been steadily shrinking, and I've had less and less reason and motivation to log in and play myself, aside from hanging out with the few active friends I've left. So here I'd like to propose a few suggestions to the devs for their consideration, if they intend to keep Ravenwatch the way it is currently, that can maybe even make it appealing to those low CP new players that come into ESO and want to check out PvP.

1) Create an intuitive UI that makes it clear what works and what doesn't in no proc. Something like a set's five piece bonus being displayed in red instead of white, to indicate it is disabled, along with a line below that clarifies this bonus does not work within the campaign. Currently the only way to know that proc sets are disabled at all is a tiny bit of text under the campaign selection menu when you have Ravenwatch selected; there is nothing in the UI to indicate that a specific set doesn't work. I believe there should be an easier in game way of visually distinguishing allowed and banned sets, especially if you intend this server to continue with this ruleset in the future.

2) To know what sets actually work, you need to hunt down and sift through a patch notes post from last year, or find them on one of a few 3rd party websites where they'll have 'em listed. This is what you currently have to do if you want to PvP in Ravenwatch. And that's not even including the sets that are not on that list that have been tested and discovered to work by the players, or new sets that have come out in the year since. New sets that are released have not had any mention of working or not working in no proc environments in the patch notes, and, there is currently no no proc server environment to test them on the PTS, there is only Grey Host. What that means is that any new sets that are released that look like they might work in Ravenwatch, have to be player tested on the live servers to discover whether they in fact do or don't. One recent example that comes to mind is the Oakensoul Ring. Yes, it works in Ravenwatch. No, we didn't know about that before the chapter went live and people farmed the leads and took it to Ravenwatch to find out if it works or not. I still have no clue if any of the other new mythics work or not, and I am a Ravenwatch main. That's how bad it is. For this reason I propose keeping an updated, pinned, official list here on the forums, for maximum visibility, along with the proposed UI changes in 1). And maybe give us a heads up in the patch notes, hey, this set works in no proc, woo. Then maybe I'd want to go on the pts again.

3) Speaking of sets, how about adding a few more sets that'll work in Ravenwatch. Some folks have mentioned how stat based proc sets like Clever Alchemist or Bone Pirate should work in no proc, and I'm inclined to agree. The current list, accessibility aside, leaves very little room to maneuver and play around with, so it might be time to take another look at what could be added to expand the available options.

4) Similarly, how about making some of the new sets you add each patch work in no proc as well. I'm not asking for a patch where every dungeon or zone set works in there, but one, maybe two out of the bunch? A prime recent example would've been something like Order's Wrath, a set that on paper looked like it'd work in no proc, but doesn't.

Finally, you need to decide if you really want to keep Ravenwatch no proc. Me personally, I've enjoyed it both proc and no proc, but the dwindling player numbers, for what a year ago was a server that rivaled Grey Host on PC EU, speak volumes that this current situation isn't going to be good for the long term health of the server.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

YandereGirlfriend · August 2022

This is a very timely post @Atrael7 and I will tag @ZOS_Kevin in the hopes of passing it along to the developers because Ravenwatch seems to have been entirely forgotten by the team.

Both myself and my guild recently switched to Blackreach from Ravenwatch for largely the same reasons that the OP cites. In addition to the dwindling player base, PC-NA Raven has the further problem of a single faction that has a monopoly on population and that plays in the server-stack style, zerging down anything that moves on the map and relentlessly PvDooring when there's nobody left to fight. This destructive style has basically forced every guild out of the server because, without access to better damage sets, there is no way to consistently win fights (or impact the map...) as a single group against a server stack of 40, 50, 60, etc.

IMO, the No-Proc stipulation should be lifted at this point. It was a knee-jerk reaction by ZOS to the flavor-of-the-month requests of ESO content creators (and their fans on the forums) who didn't even play Ravenwatch as their home campaign. As the OP said, after the initial hype died down all of the content creators that pushed for it went back to their original campaigns but Ravenwatch was left permanently diminished. PC-NA Raven lost a ton of players and guilds in the months that followed and this is what set the stage for the current population imbalance that is killing (or has already killed...) the campaign.

TLDR; Revert the No-Proc ruleset for Raven. It is the only way to salvage the campaign.

dinokstrunz · August 2022

Bring back old ravenwatch no proc rule set has forced a lot of players to leave Cyrodiil. BGs shouldn't be the only place to play no CP with procs enabled especially because of the awful waiting times.

olsborg · August 2022

Good post, I only enjoy pvp on noprocc ravenwatch these days, and ive seen the population dwindle day by day now. Its sad and something should be done. Make a few more sets work in ravenwatch that arent dmg proccs or healing proccs, but rather stat proccs, it would open up for more theorycrafting for sure.

tonyblack · August 2022

Imho, Icereach should be made into second 30 days no cp campaign with procs enabled. Right now this server feels more like a relic of the past, even during event in prime time the population remained low and on regular days it’s completely dead. Standard no cp is far better place to learn for a new player how to pvp and to find a fitting group or guild.

And when players had a real choice of no cp with proc vs no proc we can talk what ruleset is better for health of overall pvp population. Because so far all experiments with rules was done with no alternatives whatsoever by either changing entire pvp ruleset or applying it on single campaign only.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail · August 2022

If you don't want a no proc campaign anymore and you're concerned about zero population then pretend it doesn't exist and roll on Grey Host where you get exactly what you want.

If you don't like the lag, or volume of people, or potential queueing, then a new campaign isn't going to fix that. They said at beginning of year after Rich's wife mouth off that there would be a development coming in 2023 so hold out then.

If a megaservers' good enough for PVE, it's good enough for PVP.

You don't have the population and haven't for a long time, outside of the incentivised holiday events, to justify.

Just consolidate.

Extinct_Solo_Player · August 2022

Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »

If you don't want a no proc campaign anymore and you're concerned about zero population then pretend it doesn't exist and roll on Grey Host where you get exactly what you want.

If you don't like the lag, or volume of people, or potential queueing, then a new campaign isn't going to fix that. They said at beginning of year after Rich's wife mouth off that there would be a development coming in 2023 so hold out then.

If a megaservers' good enough for PVE, it's good enough for PVP.

You don't have the population and haven't for a long time, outside of the incentivised holiday events, to justify.

Just consolidate.

MajorSnakeFox · August 2022

Ravenwatch is unfortunately very laggy. The big guilds (Ballgroups) like Legacy or Vodka know how to cause this lag and actively exploit it for themselves. Actually, the performance should be better on this server, but it is not. Yesterday in the evening it was once again unplayable because somewhere at the end of the map the ballgroups brought the server to its knees.

PVP is unfortunately less and less fun. And it doesn't get better that items like Oakensoul work on it.

Vulkunne · August 2022

Atrael7 wrote: »

On the 23rd of August it'll have been a year since the Ravenwatch Cyrodiil campaign was permanently made into a no proc environment and I thought it'd be worth taking a moment to stir up the old ghosts and talk about it and its future. In this post I'll provide a recap of why Ravenwatch is a no proc campaign and some suggestions for the devs to chew on if they intend for it to stay that way.

For those unfamiliar with the reasons why the campaign was made no proc in the first place, a bit of a history lesson - proc sets (sets that fire when some condition is met) used to have pretty harsh conditions behind them to restrict their power. There used to exist a small % chance for them to trigger on say, a light attack or a critical hit, but, as a result of an ongoing effort to reduce calculations performed by the server, a patch came along where those conditions were vastly simplified to the point where most of them became 100% guaranteed to proc. As a result, proc sets became rampant in PvP, for 6-7 months most of your death recaps were made up mostly, if not entirely, of procs. Sets like Venomous Smite, Sheer Venom, Unleashed Terror, Merciless Charge, Wrath of Elements, Caluurion's Legacy, Frenzied Momentum and others were pretty much everywhere because of the ease of access to damage and power they now brought with them. On top of that, when the CP rework patch came, everyone just gained a thousand extra weapon and spell damage and a few thousand extra health, stamina and magicka for free, which made said proc sets hit even harder. Kill times were pretty brutal, you could and would be killed in less than the time it took you to break free at times. So then, after months of complaints to address procs came the no proc patch, originally proposed to last 6 months while they worked on adjusting the power behind proc sets, and ultimately being reduced to a 3 month period after the uproar from the community. For 3 months all campaigns were restricted to about 20 or so sets, all stat based like Shacklebreaker and Crafty Alfiq.

The initial reaction from the community was positive and I remember seeing names I'd not seen in a long time returning to Cyrodiil to check out the changes. It was refreshing playing the game again, seeing skills and not procs on your death recap for a change (yes, it was that bad). This initial hype didn't last, however, and within weeks many people were already looking forward to having procs back, as the lack of sets made one of the game's main strengths - the theorycrafting around builds - all but non existent. With the Blackwood chapter procs were re-enabled once again on all campaigns, only to be once again disabled on Ravenwatch with the following patch. That was the last time we heard about procs from the developers and since August of 2021 Ravenwatch has remained no proc.

Now, I'm someone that's played on Ravenwatch pre- and post- no proc as my main server. And I gotta say, I'm concerned about its future. Ravenwatch, at least on PC EU, used to be as popular as Grey Host. I know that is not the case on other megaservers, but to us, it was as much a main campaign as the CP one. It used to be pop locked every day by 4-5 PM and it was always action packed. A year into no proc and Ravenwatch is a 1-2 bar ghost town till 8-9 PM, after which time it becomes the laggy playground of the ballgroups. I stopped logging in during the day as I see the same 10-20 people everywhere I go, there's noone left to fight. A lot of players have moved to Grey Host as they're sick of the limited selection of sets, or have just outright quit the game, and as for new players, which I often hear content creators recommending to go to Ravenwatch - I doubt most of them are even aware that the campaign has special rules enabled and that their sets more than likely don't work there, and even if they do, I doubt many will go out of their way to make a no proc setup and stick around.

Indeed, outside of the first few days of the recent midyear mayhem, I've felt that the server's population has been steadily shrinking, and I've had less and less reason and motivation to log in and play myself, aside from hanging out with the few active friends I've left. So here I'd like to propose a few suggestions to the devs for their consideration, if they intend to keep Ravenwatch the way it is currently, that can maybe even make it appealing to those low CP new players that come into ESO and want to check out PvP.

1) Create an intuitive UI that makes it clear what works and what doesn't in no proc. Something like a set's five piece bonus being displayed in red instead of white, to indicate it is disabled, along with a line below that clarifies this bonus does not work within the campaign. Currently the only way to know that proc sets are disabled at all is a tiny bit of text under the campaign selection menu when you have Ravenwatch selected; there is nothing in the UI to indicate that a specific set doesn't work. I believe there should be an easier in game way of visually distinguishing allowed and banned sets, especially if you intend this server to continue with this ruleset in the future.

2) To know what sets actually work, you need to hunt down and sift through a patch notes post from last year, or find them on one of a few 3rd party websites where they'll have 'em listed. This is what you currently have to do if you want to PvP in Ravenwatch. And that's not even including the sets that are not on that list that have been tested and discovered to work by the players, or new sets that have come out in the year since. New sets that are released have not had any mention of working or not working in no proc environments in the patch notes, and, there is currently no no proc server environment to test them on the PTS, there is only Grey Host. What that means is that any new sets that are released that look like they might work in Ravenwatch, have to be player tested on the live servers to discover whether they in fact do or don't. One recent example that comes to mind is the Oakensoul Ring. Yes, it works in Ravenwatch. No, we didn't know about that before the chapter went live and people farmed the leads and took it to Ravenwatch to find out if it works or not. I still have no clue if any of the other new mythics work or not, and I am a Ravenwatch main. That's how bad it is. For this reason I propose keeping an updated, pinned, official list here on the forums, for maximum visibility, along with the proposed UI changes in 1). And maybe give us a heads up in the patch notes, hey, this set works in no proc, woo. Then maybe I'd want to go on the pts again.

3) Speaking of sets, how about adding a few more sets that'll work in Ravenwatch. Some folks have mentioned how stat based proc sets like Clever Alchemist or Bone Pirate should work in no proc, and I'm inclined to agree. The current list, accessibility aside, leaves very little room to maneuver and play around with, so it might be time to take another look at what could be added to expand the available options.

4) Similarly, how about making some of the new sets you add each patch work in no proc as well. I'm not asking for a patch where every dungeon or zone set works in there, but one, maybe two out of the bunch? A prime recent example would've been something like Order's Wrath, a set that on paper looked like it'd work in no proc, but doesn't.

Finally, you need to decide if you really want to keep Ravenwatch no proc. Me personally, I've enjoyed it both proc and no proc, but the dwindling player numbers, for what a year ago was a server that rivaled Grey Host on PC EU, speak volumes that this current situation isn't going to be good for the long term health of the server.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Hah I remember those no-proc days when they ran the server tests. PvP was so much better without worrying about VD and other cancer sets (such as Dark Convergence but I digress).

Was a great experience.

MCBIZZLE300 · August 2022

Atrael7 wrote: »

On the 23rd of August it'll have been a year since the Ravenwatch Cyrodiil campaign was permanently made into a no proc environment and I thought it'd be worth taking a moment to stir up the old ghosts and talk about it and its future. In this post I'll provide a recap of why Ravenwatch is a no proc campaign and some suggestions for the devs to chew on if they intend for it to stay that way.

For those unfamiliar with the reasons why the campaign was made no proc in the first place, a bit of a history lesson - proc sets (sets that fire when some condition is met) used to have pretty harsh conditions behind them to restrict their power. There used to exist a small % chance for them to trigger on say, a light attack or a critical hit, but, as a result of an ongoing effort to reduce calculations performed by the server, a patch came along where those conditions were vastly simplified to the point where most of them became 100% guaranteed to proc. As a result, proc sets became rampant in PvP, for 6-7 months most of your death recaps were made up mostly, if not entirely, of procs. Sets like Venomous Smite, Sheer Venom, Unleashed Terror, Merciless Charge, Wrath of Elements, Caluurion's Legacy, Frenzied Momentum and others were pretty much everywhere because of the ease of access to damage and power they now brought with them. On top of that, when the CP rework patch came, everyone just gained a thousand extra weapon and spell damage and a few thousand extra health, stamina and magicka for free, which made said proc sets hit even harder. Kill times were pretty brutal, you could and would be killed in less than the time it took you to break free at times. So then, after months of complaints to address procs came the no proc patch, originally proposed to last 6 months while they worked on adjusting the power behind proc sets, and ultimately being reduced to a 3 month period after the uproar from the community. For 3 months all campaigns were restricted to about 20 or so sets, all stat based like Shacklebreaker and Crafty Alfiq.

The initial reaction from the community was positive and I remember seeing names I'd not seen in a long time returning to Cyrodiil to check out the changes. It was refreshing playing the game again, seeing skills and not procs on your death recap for a change (yes, it was that bad). This initial hype didn't last, however, and within weeks many people were already looking forward to having procs back, as the lack of sets made one of the game's main strengths - the theorycrafting around builds - all but non existent. With the Blackwood chapter procs were re-enabled once again on all campaigns, only to be once again disabled on Ravenwatch with the following patch. That was the last time we heard about procs from the developers and since August of 2021 Ravenwatch has remained no proc.

Now, I'm someone that's played on Ravenwatch pre- and post- no proc as my main server. And I gotta say, I'm concerned about its future. Ravenwatch, at least on PC EU, used to be as popular as Grey Host. I know that is not the case on other megaservers, but to us, it was as much a main campaign as the CP one. It used to be pop locked every day by 4-5 PM and it was always action packed. A year into no proc and Ravenwatch is a 1-2 bar ghost town till 8-9 PM, after which time it becomes the laggy playground of the ballgroups. I stopped logging in during the day as I see the same 10-20 people everywhere I go, there's noone left to fight. A lot of players have moved to Grey Host as they're sick of the limited selection of sets, or have just outright quit the game, and as for new players, which I often hear content creators recommending to go to Ravenwatch - I doubt most of them are even aware that the campaign has special rules enabled and that their sets more than likely don't work there, and even if they do, I doubt many will go out of their way to make a no proc setup and stick around.

Indeed, outside of the first few days of the recent midyear mayhem, I've felt that the server's population has been steadily shrinking, and I've had less and less reason and motivation to log in and play myself, aside from hanging out with the few active friends I've left. So here I'd like to propose a few suggestions to the devs for their consideration, if they intend to keep Ravenwatch the way it is currently, that can maybe even make it appealing to those low CP new players that come into ESO and want to check out PvP.

1) Create an intuitive UI that makes it clear what works and what doesn't in no proc. Something like a set's five piece bonus being displayed in red instead of white, to indicate it is disabled, along with a line below that clarifies this bonus does not work within the campaign. Currently the only way to know that proc sets are disabled at all is a tiny bit of text under the campaign selection menu when you have Ravenwatch selected; there is nothing in the UI to indicate that a specific set doesn't work. I believe there should be an easier in game way of visually distinguishing allowed and banned sets, especially if you intend this server to continue with this ruleset in the future.

2) To know what sets actually work, you need to hunt down and sift through a patch notes post from last year, or find them on one of a few 3rd party websites where they'll have 'em listed. This is what you currently have to do if you want to PvP in Ravenwatch. And that's not even including the sets that are not on that list that have been tested and discovered to work by the players, or new sets that have come out in the year since. New sets that are released have not had any mention of working or not working in no proc environments in the patch notes, and, there is currently no no proc server environment to test them on the PTS, there is only Grey Host. What that means is that any new sets that are released that look like they might work in Ravenwatch, have to be player tested on the live servers to discover whether they in fact do or don't. One recent example that comes to mind is the Oakensoul Ring. Yes, it works in Ravenwatch. No, we didn't know about that before the chapter went live and people farmed the leads and took it to Ravenwatch to find out if it works or not. I still have no clue if any of the other new mythics work or not, and I am a Ravenwatch main. That's how bad it is. For this reason I propose keeping an updated, pinned, official list here on the forums, for maximum visibility, along with the proposed UI changes in 1). And maybe give us a heads up in the patch notes, hey, this set works in no proc, woo. Then maybe I'd want to go on the pts again.

3) Speaking of sets, how about adding a few more sets that'll work in Ravenwatch. Some folks have mentioned how stat based proc sets like Clever Alchemist or Bone Pirate should work in no proc, and I'm inclined to agree. The current list, accessibility aside, leaves very little room to maneuver and play around with, so it might be time to take another look at what could be added to expand the available options.

4) Similarly, how about making some of the new sets you add each patch work in no proc as well. I'm not asking for a patch where every dungeon or zone set works in there, but one, maybe two out of the bunch? A prime recent example would've been something like Order's Wrath, a set that on paper looked like it'd work in no proc, but doesn't.

Finally, you need to decide if you really want to keep Ravenwatch no proc. Me personally, I've enjoyed it both proc and no proc, but the dwindling player numbers, for what a year ago was a server that rivaled Grey Host on PC EU, speak volumes that this current situation isn't going to be good for the long term health of the server.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

I only play raven watch and this it's better in every way compared to cp. I wouldn't like it to be changed.

Bergzorn · August 2022

It is true that the noCP population has decreased noticeably. I did not expect that (on PC EU it was always quite popular) and it is a problem.

But I'm all against re-enabling proc sets. When they were deactivated, they were very powerful and unbalanced especially in noCP. Even if that changed in general (did it?), there are several proc sets that still are totally op. I have never experienced sets like Dark Conversion except in text descriptions and forum posts. But I remember Sload's Semblance, Venomous Smite, Crimson Twilight etc. and how I hated playing against them with a passion. The only good thing about Nocturnals Ploy and Maras Balm and whatever set abomination ZOS might come up with in the future is that they won't work in noCP.

Spice up noCP PvP - yes please. But it has to be done right, not by just making it a total mess and driving away the remaining noCP players.

TechMaybeHic · August 2022

Expanding the sets as well as having a better indicator which work in no proc would be a good start. I feel like the campaign was just thrown down and left to rot. And if they can't be bothered to give it just basic upkeep; might as well just be what it was and ateast match battleground rules

mzprx · August 2022

Atrael7 wrote: »

...
2) To know what sets actually work, you need to hunt down and sift through a patch notes post from last year, or find them on one of a few 3rd party websites where they'll have 'em listed. This is what you currently have to do if you want to PvP in Ravenwatch. And that's not even including the sets that are not on that list that have been tested and discovered to work by the players, or new sets that have come out in the year since. New sets that are released have not had any mention of working or not working in no proc environments in the patch notes, and, there is currently no no proc server environment to test them on the PTS, there is only Grey Host. What that means is that any new sets that are released that look like they might work in Ravenwatch, have to be player tested on the live servers to discover whether they in fact do or don't. One recent example that comes to mind is the Oakensoul Ring. Yes, it works in Ravenwatch. No, we didn't know about that before the chapter went live and people farmed the leads and took it to Ravenwatch to find out if it works or not. I still have no clue if any of the other new mythics work or not, and I am a Ravenwatch main. That's how bad it is. For this reason I propose keeping an updated, pinned, official list here on the forums, for maximum visibility, along with the proposed UI changes in 1). And maybe give us a heads up in the patch notes, hey, this set works in no proc, woo. Then maybe I'd want to go on the pts again.

3) Speaking of sets, how about adding a few more sets that'll work in Ravenwatch. Some folks have mentioned how stat based proc sets like Clever Alchemist or Bone Pirate should work in no proc, and I'm inclined to agree. The current list, accessibility aside, leaves very little room to maneuver and play around with, so it might be time to take another look at what could be added to expand the available options...

you can't even imagine how frustrating your point number 2 is. not just for me, for EVERYONE. i mean, a game developer decides to limit certain sets usage in a PvP campaign? sure thing, it's their game. but said developer not having a clear and easy-to-find list of sets that are not restricted and available for use? that is unheard of! i mean, how ridiculous is the fact that players who want to go to RW have to go to third party websites or test the gear themselves to see what sets they're actually able to use? and on top of that they release new sets that SHOULD work in a no CP campaign but they aren't. Heartland Conqueror didn't work in RW at first. now it works. Order's Wrath doesn't work in no CP either despite it being a set with no proc conditions what-so-ever. will it ever work and when? we, the players, have to figure that out for ourselves. what in Oblivion is this?

and yes, absolutely, some sets (like Bone Pirate/Bright-Throat's Boast, but not sure about Clever Alchemist, as that one is 100% a proc set) should work in no CP. don't see a reasom for Pariah to work but not Bone Pirate. there are sets that work in RW that are literally proc sets in everything but name (Pariah, Titanborn, etc...). they wanted to decrease the server load by taking away the server's need for constant proc calculations and that's great. but i will bet my right hand that Titanborn forces a lot more server calculations than Bone Pirate. checking your health constantly (Pariah, Titanborn) compared to checking your food buff once (is it ON or OFF). yet Bone Pirate is in the realm of dreams but Titanborn is being used by many. how is that logical is beyond me..

CaperGuy · August 2022

I’m one of the sources of the set lists on the forums right now, but I’m just a random player trying to test out anything that seems like it might work in order to confirm. The original patch notes that came with the permanent No Proc campaign were incomplete. The community found multiple sets that work in RW that had not been listed by ZOS in those notes. And then there’s new sets that come out and it’s all trial and error. I’ve used quite a bit of transmute crystals testing stuff out. Lucky for me I love to collect sets so it wasn’t quite as expensive as it could have been.

I did find a post one time where @ZOS_Kevin was going to speak to someone and get an official list but I haven’t seen anything about it recently. For now I’ll just keep my ramshackle testing going and hope I don’t miss anything, though surely there has to be a better way? I always say that I feel really bad for new players that don’t know to check the forums or third party websites. They probably read the vague description that no ‘process sets’ work and have no idea what that means.

Zer0oo · August 2022

I am personally in favor of just removing no cp completely and giving everyone 3600 cp while being in cyro and remove the no proc rule.

The no proc rule is not bad but the implementation is just plain terrible:

What counts as proc and what does not seems really arbitrary.
Stats procs should be excluded from the proc rule since it was more about disproportional the free damage proc sets give you
It is impossible to see what sets are actual working and which are not. The game does not tell you unless you actual go in the the sets to test it. There is not even an official maintained list but you have to rely on third party websites that may or may not have been updated

CaperGuy · August 2022

I do try to keep the unofficial list as updated as I can but I’m an Xbox player, so I have to wait 2 weeks after PC gets their patch to even begin to collect stuff. I do rely on community members to help test stuff too somewhat.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580810/no-proc-no-cp-set-list/p1

Like I said though. I’m just some random player. There must be a better way than relying on my manual testing. Like grey or red out the lines that don’t work in game, or put an official and maintained list somewhere. Or both.

Atrael7 · August 2022

CaperGuy wrote: »

I do try to keep the unofficial list as updated as I can but I’m an Xbox player, so I have to wait 2 weeks after PC gets their patch to even begin to collect stuff. I do rely on community members to help test stuff too somewhat.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/580810/no-proc-no-cp-set-list/p1

Like I said though. I’m just some random player. There must be a better way than relying on my manual testing. Like grey or red out the lines that don’t work in game, or put an official and maintained list somewhere. Or both.

This is awesome, thank you for this link and for providing everyone with your findings, I'd missed this thread myself and will be making a bookmark of it for my own reference. But yes, I agree 100%, there needs to be some level of official support from ZOS' side.

I mean, the majority of players don't even go on the forums, and even people like me that do check in more or less regularly have missed lists like the one above, where does that leave the players that go on Ravenwatch for the first time? Best case scenario, they'll find an out of date incomplete list, and at worst they'll have no clue why their sets don't work and never return.

Amerises · August 2022

dinokstrunz wrote: »

Bring back old ravenwatch no proc rule set has forced a lot of players to leave Cyrodiil. BGs shouldn't be the only place to play no CP with procs enabled especially because of the awful waiting times.

Yes. At this point, no cp campaign, and I’d be there often.

MipMip · August 2022

MajorSnakeFox wrote: »

Ravenwatch is unfortunately very laggy. The big guilds (Ballgroups) like Legacy or Vodka know how to cause this lag and actively exploit it for themselves. Actually, the performance should be better on this server, but it is not. Yesterday in the evening it was once again unplayable because somewhere at the end of the map the ballgroups brought the server to its knees.

It should be obvious, based on common sense, that no one enjoys lag, and no one tries to cause it. Ballgroups suffer from lag like everyone else. When heals don't go out and team mates die even though healers try to press their skills... when damage skills are not going out and it feels to dds like they are hitting the air... when support players do their best to place synergies but dds can't take the synergies because they don't appear to them in the lag... it's astonishing that anyone would think that someone would want to cause such a situation for themselves

Also about big guilds and ballgroups: these are different types of guilds - ballgroups are typically small guilds with about 15 active players. This is because playing as a ballgroup requires much practice playing together and so the roster needs to be more or less the same each raid, and so there are not many more spots in guild than the maximum twelve spots in raid.

Grandesdar · August 2022

TL;DR?

YandereGirlfriend · August 2022

Grandesdar wrote: »

TL;DR?

Raven is a dying (dead?) campaign due to the population losses that took place after the switch to the No-Proc ruleset.

The Proc restriction should be considerably loosened or else abolished entirely since Raven was a healthy campaign prior to the advent of the No-Proc regime.

Dr_Con · August 2022

There should indeed be a way to tell you what does and doesn't work in Ravenwatch and no CP-IC. I can't tell you how many times I've gone in and things I don't expect to work do work, and things I want to work wind up not working.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO · August 2022

Long ago I played ravenwatch, but when they removed proc sets I left. They should just disable dark convergence, plague break, and vicious death. Actually probably mara's and nocturnal's as well. Ravenwatch would be reborn. So many people are tired of dark convergence and the bomb meta on greyhost.

Dr_Con · August 2022

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Long ago I played ravenwatch, but when they removed proc sets I left. They should just disable dark convergence, plague break, and vicious death. Actually probably mara's and nocturnal's as well. Ravenwatch would be reborn. So many people are tired of dark convergence and the bomb meta on greyhost.

There are still many broken sets that remain unexplored due to better options. I don't think that cherrypicking and disabling a few and allowing the rest is a good idea.

I would, however, absolutely disable mythics from ravenwatch if they aren't already.

It would be nice, as an experiment, to allow the community to vote on which sets should and shouldn't be allowed there. Maybe add a new set each week, take out another the following, etc.

LiniFox · August 2022

Ravenwatch has just become the cyrodiil that you use to port into quickly when you need to from IC or for the golden

psychotrip · August 2022

Wait I dont understand...they turned procs off on an entire server? But not on others? Why? I must be reading this wrong.

Orlaxx · August 2022

The thing about no proc is that it is the only way to truly learn the mechanics of any given class. Sadly the pvp demographic wants all bells and whistles. I play GH but always hate when I get killed by some person's armor.

Veinblood1965 · August 2022

Thank you for the history. I started PVPing after those changes. I've stayed out of Ravenwatch due to the fact that every single time I've gone there it's not even a ghost town, no ghosts and no players. I go there to get achievements or hunt skyshards since there's nobody there to interfere. I've wondered why ZoS even bothers to keep the server running really unless something changes.

CaperGuy · August 2022

They had initially said that they were going to monitor the population of RW for a bit to see if they’ll have to change again, if I remember. I don’t think we’ve really heard anything about that though.

YandereGirlfriend · August 2022

CaperGuy wrote: »

They had initially said that they were going to monitor the population of RW for a bit to see if they’ll have to change again, if I remember. I don’t think we’ve really heard anything about that though.

Oh man, I remember when they made that promise!

I had forgotten since, as you mention, precisely nothing has been done about even in the face of massive population hemorrhaging in the campaign.

The players have rendered their verdict on Ravenwatch and they don't like it. The ball is now in ZOS' court to fix it.

Kalik_Gold · August 2022

Ravenwatch is the PvE Cyrodiil they can ride around and do the delves and quests with no contest...