Ember Loses Rapport Much Too Quickly!

FlopsyPrince · August 2022

So I get her up a small bit with a trove and maybe stealing something, but -10 for being seen? That is way out of balance, especially since she has so few ways to gain rapport.

I want a companion that I could use when doing Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood stuff, but the cost of the inevitable failures along the way are far too high. Thus she has much less value than she should.

Grizzbeorn · August 2022

I don't have any problem keeping Ember's rapport up.
But then, I don't do things to make her yell at me.
Sounds like you need more practice not getting caught.

Snamyap · August 2022

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

So I get her up a small bit with a trove and maybe stealing something, but -10 for being seen? That is way out of balance, especially since she has so few ways to gain rapport.

I want a companion that I could use when doing Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood stuff, but the cost of the inevitable failures along the way are far too high. Thus she has much less value than she should.

She has by far the most major positive hits of all the companions.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-companions-rapport/#emberrapport

redlink1979 · August 2022

You may loose a bit quickly (-10) when you get caught/seen trespassing but these companions can earn rapport much more quicker: just from daily quests you can get +375 rapport points per day for Ember.

PS - Companions are worthless. They always have been and always will. It's just another grind to earn a few more gold coins at the end of the day - so, you shouldn't put too much effort in this.

FluffWit · August 2022

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

I don't have any problem keeping Ember's rapport up.
But then, I don't do things to make her yell at me.
Sounds like you need more practice not getting caught.

I don't know why you're offering such a caustic response. Even an ideally spec'd thief is going to get caught pick pocketing at least 10% of the time unless they only prey on the most feeble of targets.

But it's not even about that. Shes supposed to be a fun companion for anyone who wants to have some fun being naughty. This is well and truly overtuned, a -1 penalty for getting caught would be plenty.

Because when the penalty is significant you just end up doing the same thing we did with the goody two shoes companions- putting them away when you want to break the law.

Hapexamendios · August 2022

Don't use her when stealing. It isn't worth it.

opalcity · August 2022

Yes, she's fun but she's a thief - if you get caught or do it badly of course she'll disapprove, you hurt her professional pride!

If you're that worried, do an easy pickpocket, or pickpocket a guard, to get the initial approval - then send her away while she's on cooldown so you can do the rest of your pickpocketing without worrying.

Prof_Bawbag · August 2022

redlink1979 wrote: »

You may loose a bit quickly (-10) when you get caught/seen trespassing but these companions can earn rapport much more quicker: just from daily quests you can get +375 rapport points per day for Ember.

PS - Companions are worthless. They always have been and always will. It's just another grind to earn a few more gold coins at the end of the day - so, you shouldn't put too much effort in this.

I dunno. I used to share the same opinion as you with them being useless. However, making whichever one a bona fide tank, and running a healer build myself, I haven't yet encountered a world boss I can no longer solo, dlc bosses included. They take the heat, and contrary to popular belief, they don't go down quickly if built correctly, and heals are well managed or applied as and when.

I've even solo'd some of the easier vet dungeons and again, they do not go down often at all. They might suck offensively, but defensively and built to do so, they are good at taking the aggro. So with this in mind, i have no idea why some people think they're useless when that isn't always the case.

Granted, they start of bad, but once geared and skills applied the likes of Isobel are stronger than some player controlled tanks I've seen in dungeons.

FluffWit · August 2022

I have Mirri naked with one skill. Every trash mob she charges in and hits fear so they don't spread out. Its bloody handy. And that's just one rather farcical example of how they can be useful.

Now getting up their rapport. You could argue that's not just useless its straight up penalizing you, especially Bastion with his "hey look, I scored you another trash potion that doesn't even stack with the rest of your trash potions!" passive.

rpa · August 2022

I recently walked too close to that ashlander infested pesky ruin in Vvardenfell where one enters trespassing without any warning and got one Ember rappart increase and two decreases within one second. My bad and there is not many places where that happens but still.

I find she's useful even at whatever low lv she is now (got the chapter from sale). I gave her ice staff without slotting taunting skill and she does not run around and puts out a bit of dps and morsel of heal. And I can pick up all torchbugs and butterflies without any nagging.

redlink1979 · August 2022

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

(..) defensively and built to do so, they are good (...)

Unless the world event/dungeon/trial boss has AoE mechs, from which companions just don't get out of.

SpacemanSpiff1 · August 2022

she gains rapport the fastest. there are 3 activities that give the highest tier rapport for her.

Arato · August 2022

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

So I get her up a small bit with a trove and maybe stealing something, but -10 for being seen? That is way out of balance, especially since she has so few ways to gain rapport.

I want a companion that I could use when doing Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood stuff, but the cost of the inevitable failures along the way are far too high. Thus she has much less value than she should.

Yup, I've learned that it's too Risky to use the supposed thief companion for thieving. Put her away or your rapport will tank due to RNG a lot, especially pickpocketing. The risks far outweigh the rewards, but of course other players will just tell you to do daily quests to make up for the losses.

That's rubbish. That doesn't make her any more of a thieving companion than Bastian.

Iselin · August 2022

I finally gave up on having here out when doing Thieves or DB quests. Not worth it ironically for the one companion that is crime friendly.

Prof_Bawbag · August 2022

redlink1979 wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

(..) defensively and built to do so, they are good (...)

Unless the world event/dungeon/trial boss has AoE mechs, from which companions just don't get out of.

I don't use them in trials. I've not had an issue using it on any boss thus far in dungeons or worldbosses. Like i said, give them heals and they survive through most things. Believe it or not and using that awful Wuyuvus boss as an example, I've found tank companions to be better than most players with that boss. Companions actually interrupt the pin, whereas a lot of players don't. The ghost that tethers you in Vaults of Madness is another example. A lot of players still don't understand the simple mech around that boss, like don't dps it whilst it's tethering a dps or healer. That boss is a breeze using a tank companion. You survive with no issues. Last boss they do have issues with. They don't roll in or outta the ghosts/glass shards. But there are a few players like that too. I could never ever solo the minotaur boss on the gold coast because i always ran out of stam rolling, then before i know it, things went South. i can now solo it with ease as the companion takes 90% of the heat, and i conserve stam for when he runs at me or i get dots.

There's more examples i can give you, but won't bore you. Companions built correctly and given the correct support are not "useless". Quite the opposite. At least they have an excuse for not following simple mechs.

Snamyap · August 2022

Arato wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

So I get her up a small bit with a trove and maybe stealing something, but -10 for being seen? That is way out of balance, especially since she has so few ways to gain rapport.

I want a companion that I could use when doing Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood stuff, but the cost of the inevitable failures along the way are far too high. Thus she has much less value than she should.

Yup, I've learned that it's too Risky to use the supposed thief companion for thieving. Put her away or your rapport will tank due to RNG a lot, especially pickpocketing. The risks far outweigh the rewards, but of course other players will just tell you to do daily quests to make up for the losses.

That's rubbish. That doesn't make her any more of a thieving companion than Bastian.

Nefarious things are best done alone. 😏

But seriously: when pickpocketing succes depends mostly on RNG instead of skill and planning then having a companion loose rapport on failure is just adding insult to injury.

MasterSpatula · August 2022

redlink1979 wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

(..) defensively and built to do so, they are good (...)

Unless the world event/dungeon/trial boss has AoE mechs, from which companions just don't get out of.

Yeah, I haven't seen any melee companion, tank or otherwise, last more than five seconds against Tapauzu.

Prof_Bawbag · August 2022

MasterSpatula wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

(..) defensively and built to do so, they are good (...)

Unless the world event/dungeon/trial boss has AoE mechs, from which companions just don't get out of.

Yeah, I haven't seen any melee companion, tank or otherwise, last more than five seconds against Tapauzu.

Had to look that boss up. I have never bothered with Deadlands. The load times are like 2017 all over again. Not got time for that ****. Tried once to get into that dlc and it was still loading 3 mins later. Even the "Unusually long loading ..." message gave up. Horrid dlc.

Iselin · August 2022

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

(..) defensively and built to do so, they are good (...)

Unless the world event/dungeon/trial boss has AoE mechs, from which companions just don't get out of.

Yeah, I haven't seen any melee companion, tank or otherwise, last more than five seconds against Tapauzu.

Had to look that boss up. I have never bothered with Deadlands. The load times are like 2017 all over again. Not got time for that ****. Tried once to get into that dlc and it was still loading 3 mins later. Even the "Unusually long loading ..." message gave up. Horrid dlc.

Long load times for Deadlands is buggy for some wayshrines some of the time but I've always had good luck porting to the Blood Pit wayshrine - it's like porting to any other zone. Once there, porting to any other wayshrine within the Deadlands is also normal.

TheGreatBlackBear · August 2022

Cats are fickle so it tracks.

FlopsyPrince · August 2022

I agree with the posts noting that the penalty is too high for doing things she supposedly wants to participate in. I think she also can get multiple negative hits even though the positive ones (such as for killing wolves) are very spaced out.

Yes, I may be able to get her up doing specific dailies, but that is not the point. The point is that I cannot use her for what she should be good at - staying with me for the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood lines.

I lost 10 points quickly when I was killing someone in Alik'r for the DB repeatable quest and I still don't know who "saw me" then. I couldn't have played better, but as people have noted, doing illegal things is always risky, even with "easy" pickpocketing targets. They change direction, someone shows up, etc.

And one of her "easy point" options would also be easy to lose points if you got noticed along the way, which is almost guaranteed for me. I don't do great at those anyway.

Yes, I can do it alone, but isn't the point of having a thieving companion to use them while thieving? She may not like getting caught, but the penalty is too harsh (and seems to not be time capped) so losses can add up VERY quickly.

Try fishing 3 times (accidentally even) in a row. -15 for her! (That was not on the linked list. It is shown as -1 on another list, but is wrong there since it is -5.) It is only +1 every 15 minutes (I think) for killing wolves. I can't go on a wolf spree to catch up for getting seen doing something "bad".

Everyone can't play perfectly!

FlopsyPrince · August 2022

The "pickpocketing a guard" +10 may sound great, but it would quickly be negated by the -10 for getting caught which will happen regularly when trying that. At least having it be -1 and time capped as well would make it more worth taking a risk at that.

Arato · August 2022

Snamyap wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

So I get her up a small bit with a trove and maybe stealing something, but -10 for being seen? That is way out of balance, especially since she has so few ways to gain rapport.

I want a companion that I could use when doing Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood stuff, but the cost of the inevitable failures along the way are far too high. Thus she has much less value than she should.

Yup, I've learned that it's too Risky to use the supposed thief companion for thieving. Put her away or your rapport will tank due to RNG a lot, especially pickpocketing. The risks far outweigh the rewards, but of course other players will just tell you to do daily quests to make up for the losses.

That's rubbish. That doesn't make her any more of a thieving companion than Bastian.

Nefarious things are best done alone. 😏

But seriously: when pickpocketing succes depends mostly on RNG instead of skill and planning then having a companion loose rapport on failure is just adding insult to injury.

Problem is, people wanted a partner in crime. Ember was SUPPOSED to be the companion for thieves and murderers.
But because of the penalties, she's just not.
She's almost as bad as Bastian when it comes to losing rapport for being caught.

Arato · August 2022

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I agree with the posts noting that the penalty is too high for doing things she supposedly wants to participate in. I think she also can get multiple negative hits even though the positive ones (such as for killing wolves) are very spaced out.

Yes, I may be able to get her up doing specific dailies, but that is not the point. The point is that I cannot use her for what she should be good at - staying with me for the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood lines.

I lost 10 points quickly when I was killing someone in Alik'r for the DB repeatable quest and I still don't know who "saw me" then. I couldn't have played better, but as people have noted, doing illegal things is always risky, even with "easy" pickpocketing targets. They change direction, someone shows up, etc.

And one of her "easy point" options would also be easy to lose points if you got noticed along the way, which is almost guaranteed for me. I don't do great at those anyway.

Yes, I can do it alone, but isn't the point of having a thieving companion to use them while thieving? She may not like getting caught, but the penalty is too harsh (and seems to not be time capped) so losses can add up VERY quickly.

Try fishing 3 times (accidentally even) in a row. -15 for her! (That was not on the linked list. It is shown as -1 on another list, but is wrong there since it is -5.) It is only +1 every 15 minutes (I think) for killing wolves. I can't go on a wolf spree to catch up for getting seen doing something "bad".

Everyone can't play perfectly!

Yup, if you're having to compensate for her frequent losses (especially when those losses can just be bad RNG like pickpocketing) with dailies you might as well be doing it with Bastian out, they lose rapport at about the same rate for being caught.