Who is ESO's Target Audience?

Vylaera · August 2022

Faulgor wrote: »

It's for the casual TES enjoyer.

Not those who are hung up on any particular mechanic or lore, but those that think dragons are cool and talking cats are funny.
It's the complete commodification of these more superficial aspects of the TES IP.
And that makes it "successful" in the same way mobile games are successful.

If the single player games were a masterful oil painting, ESO is a meme you share on facebook.

Very succinctly put. Great Value Brand Elder Scrolls. ESO is the flank steak to Bethesda's Filet Mignon.

Jaimeh · August 2022

Vylaera wrote: »

Taking a break from my usual long posts for a short one here. A question that popped into my mind while talking to a friend of mine is what ESO's Target Audience actually is.

ESO does not try to be a proper ES game with classic ES staples like class creation, RPG mechanics, and the freedom to play how you want, despite the developers claiming otherwise.

But yet, it also doesn't try to be an MMO and appeal to the average MMO fan, which I think is quite obvious given the developers' tone regarding endgame players and general lack of concern for things like performance or the addition of challenging PvE or PvP content to the game. Totally unrecognizable meta shifts from patch to patch almost seem to be intentioned to wear out and drive away endgame MMO players.

So if ESO isn't trying to appeal to TES fans and isn't trying to appeal to MMO fans, who is it trying to appeal to? The game feels like it doesn't understand itself but doesn't really try to do anything to understand itself. It's in this really weird halfway point that no one is actually satisfied with, and I think that this is why the population is increasingly disgruntled and dissatisfied with the game.

In my opinion, ESO needs to resolve its identity crisis and come down hard in favor of one side or the other, or else the game will continue to not satisfy the itch that either side is looking to scratch.

I agree with a lot of your points but the only reason I don't want it to resolve its identity crisis is because I think if it did then it would probably lean towards the single-player game philosophy, and as much as I love the lore and questing, I love the combat and group content more.

RaddlemanNumber7 · August 2022

As time goes by I have become more and more convinced that the devs themselves are the target audience. They build the game that they'd like to play. The rest of us don't have to be here, as they say.

I also get the feeling that some of them regard the obligations that come with being a TES game as an unwelcome burden. They like dynamic combat mechanics, but would rather get shot of the lore.

kieso · August 2022

Game is fine. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Mesite · August 2022

Yeah, I think the game was aimed at me - past me who liked mundane quests, present me who likes guild chat, and future me who will do trials.

BronzeCaiman · August 2022

I think the game has always been geared towards casuals, most of the successful streamers I have seen are casual players. This game has some of the best housing systems in an MMO to date. Really beautiful zones and a huge lore. You have to realize that this is not a gatcha game, for characters, skills or upgrades, so the endgame community is not the players who "pay" for the game. And the endgame community will never represent the majority of the player base. They might be the most sweaty and vocal, but that´s about it.

fastolfv_ESO · August 2022

they said in a livestream about 2-3 years ago the largest source of income is people who log in for new dlcs/expansions. Its why nothing will stop these quarterly dlcs that push overpriced crown store items, its not pvpers pvers or even casuals

Arbit · August 2022

Casual supremacy. Just got finished watching a video on eso toxic casuals xD with how he came across at the beginning and end, I wasn’t very impressed. Overall, I think the game caters mostly to casuals, and that’s a good thing.
I think they want the end game players to stay, because they’re important to the game. But you make a game catered to them specifically like say Wild Star, which boasted being all hardcore, I don’t think it would last.
I’m not saying that they shouldn’t cater to them, just that I think priority should be on the casuals. :P might get some flack for that.

LikiLoki · August 2022

This game is intended for players of single-player games to gently translate this category into the MMO segment. Therefore, there is an emphasis on freedom of movement and research. The game will scare away players who are not adapted to freedom of choice. As approximately reported by many people who quit TESO after the test: "I started the game, and there's an open space and you can go in any direction - it's scary, there's no order to go to a certain quest, give me a narrow corridor so I know what to do, I don't want space, I don't like freedom - a bad game"

Amottica · August 2022

kevkj wrote: »

A lot of "MMO players" just like exploring, harvesting materials and dressing up their characters/companions/houses. I think ESO does fairly well at providing for that crowd, albeit with lots of cosmetics locked behind crowns/crates.

Slightly related, but even in games like Genshin Impact there are lots of players who spend money simply to collect characters regardless of their place in the meta.

Pretty much this, and they are not trying to have uber DPS. The forum's response is not representative of the player base and never has been. It is just part of the more vocal portion of the player base which is not to diminish the importance of the forums or those that participate.

Heck, I expect after a major update goes live there are threads created by people who were oblivious to the patch notes let alone the PTS cycle that had just completed.

ThirdEye_PULSE · August 2022

LikiLoki wrote: »

This game is intended for players of single-player games to gently translate this category into the MMO segment. Therefore, there is an emphasis on freedom of movement and research. The game will scare away players who are not adapted to freedom of choice. As approximately reported by many people who quit TESO after the test: "I started the game, and there's an open space and you can go in any direction - it's scary, there's no order to go to a certain quest, give me a narrow corridor so I know what to do, I don't want space, I don't like freedom - a bad game"

Freedom of choice and open spaces... you find that in open world games. The content is generally completely player created. Minecraft is a good example of this.

Thats not ESO. Ive played both; you can tell the difference. ESO tries to be many things... jack of all trades, master of none.

UnabashedlyHonest · August 2022

To me it seems like there isn't really a target audience for ESO any longer. It's just management decisions being made to meet some internal targets or metrics of some kind now days.

I don't know any players anymore who are happy with the direction ESO is going.

emilyhyoyeon · August 2022

Artim_X wrote: »

As an Elder Scrolls fan who loves playing a shock mage, I find this game even more appealing than past Elder Scrolls entries. Yeah yeah each new zone is like a theme park, but I always explore every inch of a new zone to scratch my itch for adventure.

Housing, PvP, and dungeons are also quite fun aspects of the game, at least for me.

Yeah I feel the same. For me, the cosmetic potential of both characters & the housing system compared to those of the single player titles really makes me favor ESO.

I have quite a few issues with this game but it not feeling like a TES game is not one of them. It doesn't feel like a single player game, but it still feels like a TES game.

deleted221205-002626 · August 2022

EldritchSun wrote: »

ThirdEye_PULSE wrote: »

Ive finally just accepted this game is for casuals and casuals only. So be it.

A fun thing, though, is that we still need to use that meta DPS build and gear setup with some adjustments to do casual overland stuff.

It seems for me, the game tries to be everything for everyone, but fails to do so in every aspect. Just like an attempt to make 'play what you want' build.

I dont see how? I could go buy a white sword from the shopkeeper right now and kill just about anything overland with light attacks naked!

Kesstryl · August 2022

I did come here because I'm a TES fan, but I have also played many other MMOs because I like playing with other people. Initially it really did feel like a TES MMO, and though it had a rocky start, I was happy. The quests were more on rails for sure, but there were alternate dialogue options in some, even alternate endings for some of the side quests. It was enough to RP in my head, and I didn't mind that the main quests all had the same outcome. I like to think of it as the Elder Scrolls themselves dictating what is going to happen because it was already written into them.

After awhile, unique dialogue options and alternate outcomes with side quests stopped with the new chapters and DLC. That was disappointing. Even worse was some quests not recognizing character choices players made (Greymoor not acknowledging player vampires, Blackwood Dark Brotherhood characters not getting an alternate path for Elam's quest). I don't mind playing my characters like watching a movie unfolding, but the dialogue options are often things my character would never say ("Tell me what we are doing again" and the like). It would be nice to simply have some RP flavor in player dialogue options, even if the outcomes are always the same. Dialogue trees, even paying the voice actors a little extra for them, would break up the monotony and make the quests feel more character specific. Not all of us think of every single one of our characters as the one and only Vestige, I RP most of my characters as being other vestiges rescued from Coldharbor by my one canon The Vestige character. Bring back side quests with alternate endings (The Unquiet Dead quest in Grahtwood is a prime example).

Kiralyn2000 · August 2022

EnerG wrote: »

Everyone. They hope anyway, I'd say the game has a good mix of every type.

This. Like all the big-market "theme park" MMOs, they want everyone and anyone. Soloers, casuals, raiders, pvpers, ESO fans, people who have no idea what ESO is... anyone who'll buy a copy/sub/costume/mount.

Of course, balancing content for all those groups can be a challenge, for any MMO (WoW's been trying that juggling act for 15 years, with it's forums full of "game is dying" or "New MMO X will kill WoW" posts the entire time).

And yeah, the vocal online crew is generally only a small part of any playerbase. With games that have millions of players, 95%+ of them aren't in the forums/reddits/twitches.

It's why no matter how many "MTX and Mobile f2p Gacha games are Evil!" articles there are on Kotaku & Polygon, those things keep earning record money.
No matter how many "Diablo Immortal is awful and a rip off" articles, the game's raking in money by the barrel.
No matter how many "Acti-Bliz is full of abusive men in power, no one will play their games again" articles, Diablo 4 will sell millions.

Reddit & Twitter Apex players tried to organize a protest/boycott this month, over dissatisfaction with the dev/game/etc. Apex had it's highest player count this month.

Fact of the matter is, the vast majority of players out there aren't you. (or me, for that matter. For all I'm a "casual" who doesn't care about raiding or pvp, I'm still here on the forum, reading & posting long enough to have 10 stars. I'm not the 'average' player, either.)

netch_a_sketch · August 2022

me

EldritchSun · August 2022

sinnereso wrote: »

I dont see how? I could go buy a white sword from the shopkeeper right now and kill just about anything overland with light attacks naked!

I didn't say you couldn't, I said the meta build will do this ten time faster.

But even if so, and this game is for casuals, why do we even need all those skills and sets? Not for dungeon and trial stuff for sure, since there's a small bunch of effective skills and sets used there, and any attempt to try another build will lead to underperforming and harder times in an instance.

ATomiX69 · August 2022

Casual gamers who like to spend the big bucks on gambling crates and cosmetics ofc, who else?
🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳🐳

N00BxV1 · August 2022

This is a business. Their target audience is people who spend money.

Lugaldu · August 2022

I can only speak for myself: I came to ESO because even years after Skyrim, TES VI just didn't come out. I was skeptical at first because I wasn't keen on group content, so I waited a few years before I felt like there was enough solo content. In the meantime ESO with all its facets has grown on me and I won't want to miss it anymore if TES VI comes out at some point. I love experiencing new stories in Tamriel, exploring new areas and implementing my architectural dreams.

freespirit · August 2022

I've been here since launch and afrer reading about update 35 for the first time ever I followed a guide for a build. My reasoning for this was trying to clear some of the harder content before it became more difficult to do so.

Guess what? I've not got around to doing any of it!!

I spend many hours most days ingame but still have bucket loads of content to do and this thread has made me think about why ESO appeals to me originally and now.

Originally is quite easy, I had just played Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim in that order, I accidently stumbled on Morrowind whilst browsing for a game to play in PC World, I even remember the shop! 🤣

I heard about the Beta, signed up, got an invite and I've been here since. Back then the game felt to me like it was going to be a "never ending" TES game and I was instantly in love. 💕

As for now I had to think about that a bit more. As I said I still play for several hours most days and if I'm not actually doing questing content or dungeons what on earth do I fill my time with?

Ofc I do my crafting dailies that takes about half an hour, then I restock my stores and scan two of them for TTC, maybe another half an hour. 😃

After that well that depends, after eight years and being in two of my guilds for nearly that long I can easily lose a couple of hours chatting to the many, many friends I've made during that time, sometimes I might actually go fight stuff with them. At this point I really want to mention we have seen no mass exodus from either of those guilds and we still have to find people to remove to make room for new members.

After that? Well I always at least a couple of housing projects going and recently I may have played rather a lot of cards! 🤣

Sometimes I go collect some surveys, sometimes I do some treaure maps, sometimes I do some dailies that might drop housing mats or even better furnishing plans. Most of this I can achieve on my own but if I do need help there always seems to be people around to do so.

I manage to afford to stay subbed but for anything else I rely on Birthday/Xmas gifts from my family, I am not a "whale" I cannot buy all the pretty stuff I want from the store but I still keep playing every day.

So as far as combat content, even questing content goes I am not a "hardcore" or "elite" player, I'm not even an "achievement" hunter BUT can I be considered a "casual" player when my /played hours are probably in the top 10%?

I really don't know who the target audience is these days but I do honestly think there is just so much to do that it is still completely possible to "Play the way you want"! 💖

SilverBride · August 2022

sinnereso wrote: »

I could go buy a white sword from the shopkeeper right now and kill just about anything overland with light attacks naked!

That is not a bad thing. Most people play games for relaxation and entertainment. Spending time on every mob that is between the player and the quest objective is just tedious, not relaxing and fun.

Treselegant · August 2022

After awhile, unique dialogue options and alternate outcomes with side quests stopped with the new chapters and DLC. That was disappointing. Even worse was some quests not recognizing character choices players made (Greymoor not acknowledging player vampires, Blackwood Dark Brotherhood characters not getting an alternate path for Elam's quest). I don't mind playing my characters like watching a movie unfolding, but the dialogue options are often things my character would never say ("Tell me what we are doing again" and the like). It would be nice to simply have some RP flavor in player dialogue options, even if the outcomes are always the same

Greymoor was the first expansion where I really noticed this happening and despite some good new characters the whole story felt more on the rails than ever before. I remember when I started playing, I agonised over a decision I had made during the AD questline in Reaper's March and it was great because there was some tension there as to the outcome. As it turned out, things were fine, as they usually are with those branching quests but having the option felt meaningful.

By the time Blackwood rolled around I had no real excitement for the coming story and so bought it for the companions. I had a feeling that the story was going to be go there, do this, watch the events unfold as expected (story twists seen from miles) and I would then go back to doing my dailes but in a different location to normal. Which was exactly what happened. High Isle is where I lost patience with the game and stopped caring about the main story completely.

I'm a mid tier, casual sort of player who mainly plays the game for the ES world. The world is what brings me back and so far that's kept me playing but it's getting harder to be excited for anything any more. I used to challenge myself doing solo arenas and such but I'm a sorcerer main and I've watched my power level dwindle over time and it's less fun to bother with now. The companion system kept me from drifting away completely but due the lack of good new content for them (I enjoy having my companion but the poor guy has only four things to say to me after a year adventuring) I'm slowly losing interest in that as well.

I suspect the current 'target audience' is one who will buy the latest thing and probably not come back after a few months. I've seen it happen with the last two expansions. Decent population to start with but within a few months, everyone's done the on the rails story, done the bosses and side quests and then left to play something else. Those people will pay the entrance fee and then leave, possibly never to return, so it seems a very short-termist way of doing things to me.

sbr32 · August 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

sinnereso wrote: »

I could go buy a white sword from the shopkeeper right now and kill just about anything overland with light attacks naked!

That is not a bad thing. Most people play games for relaxation and entertainment. Spending time on every mob that is between the player and the quest objective is just tedious, not relaxing and fun.

No one said it was a bad thing. That person was responding to someone who said "we still need to use that meta DPS build and gear setup with some adjustments to do casual overland stuff."

Which is just silly.

AvalonRanger · August 2022

The game is for the single play Elder Scrolls fan people mostly. Little bit MMO aspect, but mostly feel like
all Tamriel version Skyrim for me. I satisfied with current situation as TES fan

, but also I hate it as action game fan

.
Because, ESO action gam design looks like too much shallow.

Parasaurolophus · August 2022

I totally agree that the game has an identity crisis. ESO advertises itself as a real RPG, but it's far from an RPG. It's still more of an MMO than an RPG. I can say the opposite about Fallout 76, which is almost indistinguishable from the Fallouts made by Bethesda. But Eso is not like Skyrim or other parts of the series.

SilverBride · August 2022

It doesn't really matter who the target audience is. Players who enjoy ESO will stay and those who don't won't.

Finedaible · August 2022

Treselegant wrote: »

After awhile, unique dialogue options and alternate outcomes with side quests stopped with the new chapters and DLC. That was disappointing. Even worse was some quests not recognizing character choices players made (Greymoor not acknowledging player vampires, Blackwood Dark Brotherhood characters not getting an alternate path for Elam's quest). I don't mind playing my characters like watching a movie unfolding, but the dialogue options are often things my character would never say ("Tell me what we are doing again" and the like). It would be nice to simply have some RP flavor in player dialogue options, even if the outcomes are always the same

Greymoor was the first expansion where I really noticed this happening and despite some good new characters the whole story felt more on the rails than ever before. I remember when I started playing, I agonised over a decision I had made during the AD questline in Reaper's March and it was great because there was some tension there as to the outcome. As it turned out, things were fine, as they usually are with those branching quests but having the option felt meaningful.

By the time Blackwood rolled around I had no real excitement for the coming story and so bought it for the companions. I had a feeling that the story was going to be go there, do this, watch the events unfold as expected (story twists seen from miles) and I would then go back to doing my dailes but in a different location to normal. Which was exactly what happened. High Isle is where I lost patience with the game and stopped caring about the main story completely.

I'm a mid tier, casual sort of player who mainly plays the game for the ES world. The world is what brings me back and so far that's kept me playing but it's getting harder to be excited for anything any more. I used to challenge myself doing solo arenas and such but I'm a sorcerer main and I've watched my power level dwindle over time and it's less fun to bother with now. The companion system kept me from drifting away completely but due the lack of good new content for them (I enjoy having my companion but the poor guy has only four things to say to me after a year adventuring) I'm slowly losing interest in that as well.

I suspect the current 'target audience' is one who will buy the latest thing and probably not come back after a few months. I've seen it happen with the last two expansions. Decent population to start with but within a few months, everyone's done the on the rails story, done the bosses and side quests and then left to play something else. Those people will pay the entrance fee and then leave, possibly never to return, so it seems a very short-termist way of doing things to me.

I definitely feel like there is a stark difference in writing quality and quest choices between base zone quests and the last 3 years of expansions which may be one of the reasons chapter stories are just not as appealing anymore. Base game quests feel like there was far more thought put into choice and consequence with some choices even altering the world slightly for you, like having certain mobs in an area be permanently hostile or neutral towards you based on your choices in the quest Memento Mori in Glenumbra. Or even larger, main quest choices like with

Shazah and Khali, Sir Hughes, which villain you choose to save in Coldharbour, etc.

Treselegant · August 2022

Finedaible wrote: »

I definitely feel like there is a stark difference in writing quality and quest choices between base zone quests and the last 3 years of expansions which may be one of the reasons chapter stories are just not as appealing anymore. Base game quests feel like there was far more thought put into choice and consequence with some choices even altering the world slightly for you, like having certain mobs in an area be permanently hostile or neutral towards you based on your choices in the quest Memento Mori in Glenumbra. Or even larger, main quest choices like with
Shazah and Khali, Sir Hughes, which villain you choose to save in Coldharbour, etc.

Yes, very much. The choices from the base game quests didn't cause huge changes to the world but it was enough to at least give the impression that the player had some hand in events. It balanced out the Elder Scrolls feel with the game being an MMO quite well in my opinion.

In recent years, well, it feels like the Vestige is not really connected to events and just happens to be there. When the writers bring back previously popular characters it feels like they're trying to create a quick connection to the current story but it's not enough to just throw a character in there and expect everyone to feel invested. I think Darien and maybe Abnur Tharn were the last well handled returns.