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Feedback - New Player Experience (probably the reason why people quit?)
naissur
✭✭✭
It took several months to convince 5 friends to try the game. This week they have finally tried it.
3 of them quitted straight away.
Why did they quit? Because the game is very messy.
2 are still playing, but constantly complaining about how messy the game is.
No explaination of how the interface works. No explaination of which quest to take first. No explaination on how to start the main quest, no explaination on what the icons are, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I know in the last period the team has been focused its attention on DPS. My friends do not care about DPS.
One of the 2 friends that are still playing said:
I am not an expert UIX designer, but listening to them I started to remember that 5 years ago I had the same problem. I couldn't understand what to do. So many things (that I love) can be very confusing when you start out and no explaination is given. It would be nice if the development team focused on the new player experience instead of changing end game skills every week.
3 of them quitted straight away.
Why did they quit? Because the game is very messy.
2 are still playing, but constantly complaining about how messy the game is.
No explaination of how the interface works. No explaination of which quest to take first. No explaination on how to start the main quest, no explaination on what the icons are, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I know in the last period the team has been focused its attention on DPS. My friends do not care about DPS.
One of the 2 friends that are still playing said:
I see there are lot of things to do in this game, but it is very messy. I don't know what to do and I am frustrated most of the time. If it wasn't for you helping me out, I would have quitted very quickly.
I am not an expert UIX designer, but listening to them I started to remember that 5 years ago I had the same problem. I couldn't understand what to do. So many things (that I love) can be very confusing when you start out and no explaination is given. It would be nice if the development team focused on the new player experience instead of changing end game skills every week.
51
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Four_Fingers✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah and abysmal beginning mount speed and armor decay every few levels make for a horrible leveling experience.
34 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The new player experience is a confusing, badly thought out mess.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.29 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah, starter towns should be much more clear. Even I can't figure out what is DLC or regular game anymore. Many players(including me) have suggested changing the quest arrow colors to be different for each different DLC and questline.
Hopefully ZOS will adjust this ASAP, and hopefully your friends will figure out the correct order to do the quests in.13 -
francesinhalover✭✭✭✭✭
✭Non of my friends cared and some quit because the game looked boring to them. Another quit because he just wanted to pvp but had to farm gear and do dungs and that just annoyed him, also he disliked the combat so he tanked on dungeons insteadI am @fluffypallascat pc eu if someone wants to play together
Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!0 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This helps to highlight one of the principal reasons for the gap between low/mid-tier players and the high-end: the lack of information about basic game mechanics.
This is like such an elephant in the room that it is a marvel that ZOS has not made any meaningful attempt to improve the situation. Easy access to information is typically the starting point for any multiplayer game.
Just look at tooltips on skills for an easy example: why aren't they standardized in their language and their various relevant components highlighted by the UI? Just color-code the damage number in the tooltip for Direct Damage or DoT and include a simple matrix with attributes so that a player can, at a glance, see: "Ah, this skill is Direct Damage, Channeled, Flame Damage, and it scales off of my Spell Damage." So simple and so much friendlier to players than the existing kludge of a system.
A basic resource for things like the game's damage calculation and skill scaling coefficients would also be appreciated so that the community doesn't have to run their own regressions just to figure them out.22 -
freespirit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I started a new character quite recently, I have plenty of knowledge about when to play what BUT it wasn't a nice experience at all, also I found the new tutorial to be sadly lacking.
I went to Daggerfall and in my opinion it is an unholy mess. With the characters I usually play they have done most of if not all the quests so it had been a while since I'd seen it with a new one.
Sorry but something really needs to be done asap, my screen was full of quest markers and those annoying NPC's, how on earth any new players deal with this I have absolutely no idea!!
When people say to me........
"You're going to regret that in the morning"
I sleep until midday cos I'm a problem solver!27 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oddly enough, my experience as a new gamer in ESO was magical and exciting.
Did I know what I was doing? Heck, no.
Did I care? Heck, no.
Was I having fun? Heck, yeah.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!24 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭Learn
Explore
Discover
ESO is a live game. The players revolve around the game, not the game around them (as in single-player games).
General advices for new players:
- switch to 3rd person view immediately xd
- ignore everything else, just roll around, kill some stuff
Then you'll know whether to leave the game forever or continue to find out where the long road will take you.7 -
mandricus✭✭✭✭✭The game does not tells you that the tooltip of the skills change based on your resources (I've discovered it only after months that I was playing, and just because a guild mate told me).
The game does not tells you that you have to weave light attacks between your skills
The game does not tells you what a rotation is.
The game does not tells you that your resistances affect how much damage you take.
The game does not tells you how damage is calculated and how mitigation and penetration affects the calculations.
The game does not tells you that there is a golden vendor every weekend in Cyrodiil.
The game does not tells you that you have to train your mount (I've discovered it after months).
The game does not tells you the difference between a regular vendor and a trading guild vendor.
The game does not tells you that you can check your DPS on a dummy.
I could go on for hours.
The game was designed for MMORPG players, which already knows most of this stuff, because it's typical of these kind of games, forgetting that a very large chunk of the player base come to this game from Skyrim, and most of them knows absolutely nothing about this stuff. They have to learn it the hard way...
21 -
Drammanoth✭✭✭✭✭@naissur
[sarcasm] oh my, how impatient, how rude! [/sarcasm]
If I wrote more sarcastic comments, I'd be censored by Icy or Hadeostry, so I'll pass.
The point is, our feedback is approximately meaningless... We'd need to ask for a specific feature for years and en masse for ZOS to finally notice our request. Maybe.
Again, to give ZOS their due, they have implemented a few QoL changes that do make life that much easier, but why oh WHY do the players feel that it is NOT enough?4 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The game does not tells you that the tooltip of the skills change based on your resources (I've discovered it only after months that I was playing, and just because a guild mate told me).
The game does not tells you that you have to weave light attacks between your skills
The game does not tells you what a rotation is.
The game does not tells you that your resistances affect how much damage you take.
The game does not tells you how damage is calculated and how mitigation and penetration affects the calculations.
The game does not tells you that there is a golden vendor every weekend in Cyrodiil.
The game does not tells you that you have to train your mount (I've discovered it after months).
The game does not tells you the difference between a regular vendor and a trading guild vendor.
The game does not tells you that you can check your DPS on a dummy.
I could go on for hours.
The game was designed for MMORPG players, which already knows most of this stuff, because it's typical of these kind of games, forgetting that a very large chunk of the player base come to this game from Skyrim, and most of them knows absolutely nothing about this stuff. They have to learn it the hard way...
None of which is remotely relevant to the New Player Experience.
I'm more interested in getting the start of the game right for those totally new to the type of game and taking their time in familiarising themselves with it, rather than those who complain that they don't know how to progress in competitive play after hitting 500 champion points a week into the game.
7 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yeah must be confusing as all hell.
You go to a capital city and there are like 4-5 main quest starters, mostly for dlcs.16 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's time to justify the pricing, that's for sure.The game does not tells you that the tooltip of the skills change based on your resources (I've discovered it only after months that I was playing, and just because a guild mate told me).
The game does not tells you that you have to weave light attacks between your skills
The game does not tells you what a rotation is.
The game does not tells you that your resistances affect how much damage you take.
The game does not tells you how damage is calculated and how mitigation and penetration affects the calculations.
The game does not tells you that there is a golden vendor every weekend in Cyrodiil.
The game does not tells you that you have to train your mount (I've discovered it after months).
The game does not tells you the difference between a regular vendor and a trading guild vendor.
The game does not tells you that you can check your DPS on a dummy.
I could go on for hours.
The game was designed for MMORPG players, which already knows most of this stuff, because it's typical of these kind of games, forgetting that a very large chunk of the player base come to this game from Skyrim, and most of them knows absolutely nothing about this stuff. They have to learn it the hard way...
But it's not an MMO, remember ?
*source screen rant*In a recent interview, the head of Zenimax Online Studios argues the massively multiplayer online game Elder Scrolls Online is not actually an MMO.1 -
opalcity✭✭✭✭✭It's great that people are offering advice and helpful tips, but a new player should be able to learn things from the game, not have to rely on outside sources.
On the other side of it, new players shouldn't expect to be able to speedrun their way up to endgame content without doing the grind and putting in the time and effort.
6 -
Thecompton73✭✭✭✭✭Four_Fingers wrote: »Yeah and abysmal beginning mount speed and armor decay every few levels make for a horrible leveling experience.
The mount speed issue is terrible. You can literally run faster on foot than on a horse until you get the training past level 10 and it still feels incredibly slow until you get it up to 25-30 and have the PvP passive for rapids unlocked. A new player coming in without help would have no idea about the rapids passive to make things even worse. More than a month just to get to a halfway decent mount speed is way way too long for new players or people making alts.Edited by Thecompton73 on August 19, 2022 7:33PM9 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think your friends are correct. Far too many quest arrows are present. The main story could be overlooked because it's just another quest arrow in the mess.
In my opinion... Ditch the hooded person. Ditch the various other dlc zone related starter entry points.
1. Right after a character is made the game should load the cut scene in which your new character is dragged down to the table where your character is stabbed. Then your character wakes up behind bars where Lyris breaks you out. WHY? Because it places you properly into the story in a startling way.
2. Place ALL of the dlc related quest arrow bearers further out, like say, into what used to be the 4th area in each faction. Maybe place the prologue quest givers in the 3rd area.
3. Consider adding a combat training guy at the docks of each factions starter zone. Make the training zone really useful 👌 by including line of sight, roll-dodge, and block. If possible include a light attack > skill weave guide.Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--14 -
Drammanoth✭✭✭✭✭
You can always purchase Crown Crates, convert them into Gems and boost your speed, eh?Thecompton73 wrote: »Four_Fingers wrote: »Yeah and abysmal beginning mount speed and armor decay every few levels make for a horrible leveling experience.
The mount speed issue is terrible. You can literally run faster on foot than on a horse until you get the training past level 10 and it still feels incredibly slow until you get it up to 25-30 and have the PvP passive for rapids unlocked. A new player coming in without help would have no idea about the rapids passive to make things even worse. More than a month just to get to a halfway decent mount speed is way way too long for new players or people making alts.
...
Another thing that would need PROPER cleaning is the Clown Store.1 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The game does not tells you that the tooltip of the skills change based on your resources (I've discovered it only after months that I was playing, and just because a guild mate told me).
The game does not tells you that you have to weave light attacks between your skills
The game does not tells you what a rotation is.
The game does not tells you that your resistances affect how much damage you take.
The game does not tells you how damage is calculated and how mitigation and penetration affects the calculations.
The game does not tells you that there is a golden vendor every weekend in Cyrodiil.
The game does not tells you that you have to train your mount (I've discovered it after months).
The game does not tells you the difference between a regular vendor and a trading guild vendor.
The game does not tells you that you can check your DPS on a dummy.
I could go on for hours.
The game was designed for MMORPG players, which already knows most of this stuff, because it's typical of these kind of games, forgetting that a very large chunk of the player base come to this game from Skyrim, and most of them knows absolutely nothing about this stuff. They have to learn it the hard way...
None of which is remotely relevant to the New Player Experience.
I'm more interested in getting the start of the game right for those totally new to the type of game and taking their time in familiarising themselves with it, rather than those who complain that they don't know how to progress in competitive play after hitting 500 champion points a week into the game.
The horse thing is totally relevant. New players have almost no wayshrines. They have to slow travel everywhere. It takes forever. Some of the regions don't have a starter wayshrine so you have find a boat or a gate to pass thru to ever get there to begin with. And to top it off the maps are horrible. You can pay to upgrade your mount of course, but it's not cheap.
PS5/NA7 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I mean, there are big arrows over the quest givers. I agree there is not a lot of direction, but that is kind of the point. It is an open world MMORPG. You can do quests in almost any order at whatever pace you chose.
I remember the first time I played Morrowind. I bought it at the local game store because it said RPG of the year on it. I had never heard of it, but was a big fan of a lot of turn based RPGs (Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star), etc. I played for about an hour, was completely lost and put it on the shelf. About 6 months later, I was discussing with a buddy who loved it. I expressed my concerns, and his response was basically, do whatever you want, that's why its fun. Picked it up a second time and dumped hundreds of hours into it. Now, Morrowind is on my Mount Rushmore of video games.7 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thecompton73 wrote: »Four_Fingers wrote: »Yeah and abysmal beginning mount speed and armor decay every few levels make for a horrible leveling experience.
The mount speed issue is terrible. You can literally run faster on foot than on a horse until you get the training past level 10 and it still feels incredibly slow until you get it up to 25-30 and have the PvP passive for rapids unlocked. A new player coming in without help would have no idea about the rapids passive to make things even worse. More than a month just to get to a halfway decent mount speed is way way too long for new players or people making alts.
I feel like the mount speed stuff is really an established player problem.
New players who are doing quests for the first time in overland have nowhere they need to be that requires mount training to get there. The main story quests are directly outside one of the first main cities, and the zone quests slowly radiate you throughout the zone incrementally, allowing you to unlock wayshrines as you move along. The Mount Speed complaint is really an end game complaint from players rushing zone dolmens and sky shards to level their 15th character, disguised as a "help the new players" problem.11 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's great that people are offering advice and helpful tips, but a new player should be able to learn things from the game, not have to rely on outside sources.
That should be the case but sadly it's not; although I was a new player before One Tamriel where progression was a bit more guided by virtue of the zones being level-locked, it was still very confusing, and I had to constantly look up guides online. I imagine it's even more confusing now. The zone guide was a nice addition, but it's not reinforced enough so that players make regular use of it, so it's still very easy to lose track of all the story lines and where you are supposed to go. I think if there was a tab that had an arrow path for quests, similar to the one shown in UESP about questing in chronological order, and could track character progression through that path, it would help players immensely.2 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SeaGtGruff wrote: »Oddly enough, my experience as a new gamer in ESO was magical and exciting.
Did I know what I was doing? Heck, no.
Did I care? Heck, no.
Was I having fun? Heck, yeah.
This. I spent a month reading the forum; then I read about ESO on UESP; then I set up accounts and started playing. I didn't really know what I was doing, but I did know how to start the overall game MQ, and having played WoW and RIFT years back, I just picked up some quests, started figuring out the very much different combat here, and I've been having a huge amount of fun since.
In fact, I really don't appreciate games that want to hold my hand getting started. I like to read some stuff, and dive in head first.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....4 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »The game does not tells you that the tooltip of the skills change based on your resources (I've discovered it only after months that I was playing, and just because a guild mate told me).
The game does not tells you that you have to weave light attacks between your skills
The game does not tells you what a rotation is.
The game does not tells you that your resistances affect how much damage you take.
The game does not tells you how damage is calculated and how mitigation and penetration affects the calculations.
The game does not tells you that there is a golden vendor every weekend in Cyrodiil.
The game does not tells you that you have to train your mount (I've discovered it after months).
The game does not tells you the difference between a regular vendor and a trading guild vendor.
The game does not tells you that you can check your DPS on a dummy.
I could go on for hours.
The game was designed for MMORPG players, which already knows most of this stuff, because it's typical of these kind of games, forgetting that a very large chunk of the player base come to this game from Skyrim, and most of them knows absolutely nothing about this stuff. They have to learn it the hard way...
None of which is remotely relevant to the New Player Experience.
I'm more interested in getting the start of the game right for those totally new to the type of game and taking their time in familiarising themselves with it, rather than those who complain that they don't know how to progress in competitive play after hitting 500 champion points a week into the game.
The horse thing is totally relevant. New players have almost no wayshrines. They have to slow travel everywhere. It takes forever. Some of the regions don't have a starter wayshrine so you have find a boat or a gate to pass thru to ever get there to begin with. And to top it off the maps are horrible. You can pay to upgrade your mount of course, but it's not cheap.
Where are they going?
If they take their time to explore, do a bit of harvesting, and generally get their bearings then they don't need to go anywhere fast, let alone use a mount to get there. Does it really take months to spot a stablemaster and click on him/her? Or a wayshrine?7 -
Sturmfaenger✭✭✭✭✭
✭Remembering back when I was a new player...
I love(d) the new player experience back in 2014 when the game was about half a year old and I joined. Played and explored everything on my own in my very first MMO that was the world of Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.
I played ESO as kind of single player game until I got lvl 50, ended the main quest and my ebonheart story arc. I took my time, enjoyed the world, its lore and beauty, and learned more about ESO and gameplay and the world on my own. Of course I was far from perfect, but I made it - without a guild or any addons^^ I learned the MMO things like dd and tank and the rest from people in my guilds later.
I would not miss that first time on my own, because I mastered that game on my own, did not look up things (°cough° minus that one argonian riddle somewhere in Shadowfen) and was and am proud that I achieved that without help.
I have roots in ESO that are my own. One of the reasons why I am still here after all those years.
Today the game has added lots of help functions and quality of life improvements. I also enjoy many addons and would not miss them.
If I would start the game new 2022 without knowledge of it, I would again take my time to get to know it. Same approach. Its worth it.
If I would take a different approach to the game, read guides, push a recommended char with recommended class and recommended gear to lvl 50 to run recommended dungeons... the game for me would just become a one night stand and I would quit soon. And I would get frustrated because my char would not be able to do anything those guides say you need to have to own and achieve in a record time.
So it may not only depend on how fast and easy a game leads a newbie to OP level, but what kind player a newbie is when they start a game. When one learns to play the violin one won't be playing vivaldi on a stradivari in one's first week. Of course that would cause dissappointment in the player. But not even the most famous and best violin teacher could help here.
Solo player perspective, I know. But there is not "the" new player. There's not "the" reason why people stay or quit. Aspects of the game that bring one player to quit it are exactly the ones that will make another player stay.PC/EU13 -
FluffWit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The main thing that makes questing so confusing is all the bloody dlc pre quests that bombard people with icons in the cities- especially the starter cities.
Just get rid of ALL of them. You can use the load screen pages to bombard people with ads for the dlc. Or have pop up ads like you do for the crown store. But all these quest markers need to go.
You even still have the main story quest icon over Stugas head in every starter city!
You still try and give people the Morrowind pre quest while they're on Khenarthis Roost. The starter island. You have an icon that looks like a nice chill starter island quest there but its telling people to go down this massive rabbit warren of map jumping to try and sell the Morrowind dlc.12 -
CBreeze71✭✭✭The horse speed is absolutely demoralizing. But they always end getting some cash out of me because it's so annoying. I doubt anything would change that.XBX-NA | GenX | ChillAF | ESOEveryday | Guar Rancher | Mystical Bard of Tamriel1 -
markulrich1966✭✭✭✭✭
✭there are basically two types of games, linear and non-linear.
If you love doom, you will not like eso.
Straight forward, follow the corridors, level up.
Guess it is similar with pure PVP games. Have a friend playing Pub-G, he would hate playing ESO.
Because ESO is the opposite. Open-World, extreme focus on exploring, picking up a story here, a story there.
So if your friends quit as they lack a clear instruction, it is because they belong to the linear players.
It is not a quality issue.
I played doom hundrets of times, using different engines like GL-Doom, but at some point this playstyle gets ultra-boring. For this reason I love a non-linear game like eso, but can understand from my former style of playing, that this is not for everyone.4