Absurd ancestral motif drop rate

BahometZ · August 2022

I am dredging this old chestnut up to point out how insanely anti-fun and openly antagonistic the ancestral motif lead drops are. A lot of what is below is subjective, much of it conveyed through gritted teeth, a lot of it is irrational. This grind has made me irate and irrational.

Blackwood dropped over a year ago, and despite playing this game daily, and naturally acquiring a significant number of blackwood maps over the course of this time, I was still 2 motifs short of the ancestral akaviri book. So I thought, what the hell, I'll go out and buy a bunch of maps, and finally close it out. Well a few hundred thousand gold later, and several dozens of maps, I'm still 2 motifs short, because of course. Of course I get an average of 1 motif lead from every 10 maps. Of course they're duplicates. But now it's been 20 maps since a lead has even appeared. So I should have enjoyed that golden age while it lasted.

The ancestral reach is just as bad, but what is most insulting is that the Deadlands has two maps!! Two maps to hope for one of 14 drops to possibly drop. And now we have ancestral Breton to beat our heads against. And with each new addition the droprate of maps is further diluted.

How was this ever thought to be a reasonable system? I am struggling to put into polite words a way to describe the people and process that made this work how it does. I have questions. Questions best screamed into a void, or posted anonymously. I will try to think of some more reasonable and gentle questions.

I want the developers to know that things like this make me hate the game. I don't want to hate the game. I enjoy playing it. But I hate this. Here are some questions. Why do you do these things? Why do you do these things to people who like your game? Is it on purpose? Did you test it? Have you engaged with this process yourself? Is it deliberate? Are you aware of how the experience feels? Have you heard any feedback? Have you heard people praise or criticise this system? Does anyone on the staff have a full collection of ancestral akaviri motifs acquired through the antiquity system? Do you think this is a good system? Is it deliberate? Do you think the process could be improved? Why do you do these things? Do you believe in hell? I do now btw.

Those are my questions.

It is too late for me, but to improve the sanity of your playerbase, please consider some means of improving the drop rate.

Such as, having ancestral motifs drop from zone chests, or better yet increasing the specific zone map droprate from zone activities. So you could get a blackreach map drop from blackreach harrowstorms or world bosses. This would increase engagement with the content. Something that would certainly help popular some very barren areas of Tamriel.

Please consider this @ZOS_kevin @everyone (I don't know who else to tag)

Destyran · August 2022

Yeah and things like you Decon gold jewellery and get a dust not even a plating there are some grinds that need to be changed because people just hate them.

MaraxusTheOrc · August 2022

Destyran wrote: »

Yeah and things like you Decon gold jewellery and get a dust not even a plating there are some grinds that need to be changed because people just hate them.

I am far more forgiving of jewelcrafting material scarcity, which does actually impact player power, than I am of ancestral motifs being as rare and difficult to come by as they are. It’s just not fun in any way shape or form.

Parasaurolophus · August 2022

BahometZ wrote: »

I am dredging this old chestnut up to point out how insanely anti-fun and openly antagonistic the ancestral motif lead drops are. A lot of what is below is subjective, much of it conveyed through gritted teeth, a lot of it is irrational. This grind has made me irate and irrational.

Blackwood dropped over a year ago, and despite playing this game daily, and naturally acquiring a significant number of blackwood maps over the course of this time, I was still 2 motifs short of the ancestral akaviri book. So I thought, what the hell, I'll go out and buy a bunch of maps, and finally close it out. Well a few hundred thousand gold later, and several dozens of maps, I'm still 2 motifs short, because of course. Of course I get an average of 1 motif lead from every 10 maps. Of course they're duplicates. But now it's been 20 maps since a lead has even appeared. So I should have enjoyed that golden age while it lasted.

The ancestral reach is just as bad, but what is most insulting is that the Deadlands has two maps!! Two maps to hope for one of 14 drops to possibly drop. And now we have ancestral Breton to beat our heads against. And with each new addition the droprate of maps is further diluted.

How was this ever thought to be a reasonable system? I am struggling to put into polite words a way to describe the people and process that made this work how it does. I have questions. Questions best screamed into a void, or posted anonymously. I will try to think of some more reasonable and gentle questions.

I want the developers to know that things like this make me hate the game. I don't want to hate the game. I enjoy playing it. But I hate this. Here are some questions. Why do you do these things? Why do you do these things to people who like your game? Is it on purpose? Did you test it? Have you engaged with this process yourself? Is it deliberate? Are you aware of how the experience feels? Have you heard any feedback? Have you heard people praise or criticise this system? Does anyone on the staff have a full collection of ancestral akaviri motifs acquired through the antiquity system? Do you think this is a good system? Is it deliberate? Do you think the process could be improved? Why do you do these things? Do you believe in hell? I do now btw.

Those are my questions.

It is too late for me, but to improve the sanity of your playerbase, please consider some means of improving the drop rate.

Such as, having ancestral motifs drop from zone chests, or better yet increasing the specific zone map droprate from zone activities. So you could get a blackreach map drop from blackreach harrowstorms or world bosses. This would increase engagement with the content. Something that would certainly help popular some very barren areas of Tamriel.

Please consider this @ZOS_kevin @everyone (I don't know who else to tag)

Why do you think that all the motive should be given to the players easily? I believe that such rarity makes the motifs exclusive.

rexagamemnon · August 2022

@Parasaurolophus although i do agree with you on the idea that some items should have a level
of level effort to them to reward players who put in the time, i will concede to the point that somethings are rather far out of reach even for players who are are better than the average. You might disagree with my take on the matter thats ok. Many of the top end game players ive met feel like everything is to easy. But the majority of players are not top end and don't have the time to practice/devote to becoming top end game. I think there could be a middle ground for both sides of the argument to agree on a solution. Although as a husband and father i do not have the time to think of a solution to favor both parties. So i leave that to those more “involved” (for lack of a better term) than I

BahometZ · August 2022

Oh, I just wanted to add that

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

I am dredging this old chestnut up to point out how insanely anti-fun and openly antagonistic the ancestral motif lead drops are. A lot of what is below is subjective, much of it conveyed through gritted teeth, a lot of it is irrational. This grind has made me irate and irrational.

Blackwood dropped over a year ago, and despite playing this game daily, and naturally acquiring a significant number of blackwood maps over the course of this time, I was still 2 motifs short of the ancestral akaviri book. So I thought, what the hell, I'll go out and buy a bunch of maps, and finally close it out. Well a few hundred thousand gold later, and several dozens of maps, I'm still 2 motifs short, because of course. Of course I get an average of 1 motif lead from every 10 maps. Of course they're duplicates. But now it's been 20 maps since a lead has even appeared. So I should have enjoyed that golden age while it lasted.

The ancestral reach is just as bad, but what is most insulting is that the Deadlands has two maps!! Two maps to hope for one of 14 drops to possibly drop. And now we have ancestral Breton to beat our heads against. And with each new addition the droprate of maps is further diluted.

How was this ever thought to be a reasonable system? I am struggling to put into polite words a way to describe the people and process that made this work how it does. I have questions. Questions best screamed into a void, or posted anonymously. I will try to think of some more reasonable and gentle questions.

I want the developers to know that things like this make me hate the game. I don't want to hate the game. I enjoy playing it. But I hate this. Here are some questions. Why do you do these things? Why do you do these things to people who like your game? Is it on purpose? Did you test it? Have you engaged with this process yourself? Is it deliberate? Are you aware of how the experience feels? Have you heard any feedback? Have you heard people praise or criticise this system? Does anyone on the staff have a full collection of ancestral akaviri motifs acquired through the antiquity system? Do you think this is a good system? Is it deliberate? Do you think the process could be improved? Why do you do these things? Do you believe in hell? I do now btw.

Those are my questions.

It is too late for me, but to improve the sanity of your playerbase, please consider some means of improving the drop rate.

Such as, having ancestral motifs drop from zone chests, or better yet increasing the specific zone map droprate from zone activities. So you could get a blackreach map drop from blackreach harrowstorms or world bosses. This would increase engagement with the content. Something that would certainly help popular some very barren areas of Tamriel.

Please consider this @ZOS_kevin @everyone (I don't know who else to tag)

Why do you think that all the motive should be given to the players easily? I believe that such rarity makes the motifs exclusive.

Nowhere did I ask for this to be easy. Please engage with the post meaningfully. Having a motif hide behind a random chance of a random map drop, with only the possibility of a random lead is not even a matter of easy or hard. It's pure insanity.

Many motifs require a grind, which I am not opposed to, but the newer ancestral ones are obscene.

tmbrinks · August 2022

In my opinion... I think they should make an adjustment to the treasure map curation in the game.

Have the overall sourcing and drop rate stay the same... but tilt the drop rate significantly to getting a treasure map from that particular zone.

So, you're running around High Isle, loot a thieves trove. If it has a treasure map, let's say it has a 50% chance to be a High Isle map... and 50% to be NOT a High Isle map (then randomly chosen from all other options).

This would at least allow for mostly targeted farming of treasure maps from those zones.

Just a thought I've had.

Bat · August 2022

Finding these new Ancestral motifs is RNG on top of RNG (on top of RNG if you happen to have found some of the pages and learned them already) - it's not a sensible level of grind, it's insanity. Hence why I don't even bother digging up those treasure maps in favor of selling them.

tomofhyrule · August 2022

I'd like some curation on the leads honestly.

For lore completionists, hoping that you get a map for the zone (RNG) to get a lead (RNG) for the motif you're missing (RNG) is a bit ridiculous. Sure, you can undersut one of those RNG layers by buying the overpriced maps from a guild store, but there's no escaping the other two.

And just buying the motif from a guild store doesn't unlock the codex entry.

I'd love if, if we need to keep so much RNG in these, that they curate the leads. Oh, you're missing 2 of the codex entries for Ancestral Reach? Then the next one you find will be one of those two. It's still got layers of layers of RNG to get the leads, but at least you'll be filling up your codex.
*note I'm curating based on the account-wide CODEX, not the character-bound styles. That also means there's no way to try to be devious and just farm all but the chest page so you can keep digging that one up. Once you dig up Ancient Daedric Chests, whether you eat it or sell it afterwards, that's not going to drop again until you get the other 13 codex entries.

...but yes, these are ridiculous RNG. Please give these leads a chance to drop from zone treasure chests as well. I'm okay with it being a low chance, but just something more than the 10% chance from one of two treasure maps that rarely drop from anywhere...

Gaebriel0410 · August 2022

I don't mind rare items, but I think treasure maps really should have a higher chance to be from the zone you find them in.

Mainly because it is more consistent, and collecting things is more fun when you can actually target your search and know you are making progression. I have no problems (occasionally) farming a set that drops in a certain zone or dungeon, but those treasure maps for motifs I just buy from the traders as my time and sanity are more precious than my gold in that regard. But I'd vastly prefer finding them myself, if it was a realistic option.

Sonnir · August 2022

I am really OPPOSED to having treasure maps having a higher chance of dropping from their specific zones as no casual player will ever be able to loot a chest or safebox there ever again due to the amount of farmers that'd be there (in reference to newer zones).

HOWEVER, I am in complete agreeance that the RNG behind ancestral motif leads is in DIRE need of updating. It is a HORRIBLE experience! I have spent at least 500k on Blackwood maps and am still no where near having my codex filled out with Ancestral Akaviri style. >.<

Grinding is a fact of MMO life but grinding for YEARS and still not having an antiquity collection complete is just unacceptable and excessively painful.

Please, for the health of the playerbase, PLEASE ZOS, consider updating the ancestral motif lead grind.

My Suggestion:
Have your collections "smartly" drop leads, similar to collecting sticker book items. When you get a lead for an ancestral page, have it be a lead not in a player's codex THUS allowing peope to STILL grind (painstakingly) for their leads but at least there will be a guarunteed light at the end of the tunnel. Once a player has a filled ancestral motif codex, motif leads will be randomized.

w002exp · August 2022

I got the chest piece and the helmet from the CE maps the first day I played high isle. Ended up selling them for a couple of mil but I'm sort of regretful I did now. I might never see those pieces again.

ZOS_Icy · August 2022

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

CGPsaint · August 2022

Ancestral Reach and Ancestral Akaviri were both pretty brutal, however they're a cakewalk compared to Ancestral Daedric pages. None of the styles would be as bad as they are if there was a reliable way to farm treasure maps for specific zones. There are gobs of treasure maps available on guild traders (Xbox/NA) for Reach and Blackwood maps for 10K each or less, however High Isle and especially Deadland maps are significantly harder to find, and generally list for 30K or higher. Imagine paying 30K for a map that has a miniscule chance of dropping a lead, and that lead being 1 of 14 possible leads. You could spend millions of gold and still not pull all 14 leads. I burned through 365 maps to get all of the Ancestral Akaviri leads, and that was at roughly 10K per map. While I did get some of that gold back from selling duplicates, that isn't even remotely possible as the volume of maps is just not available on traders for Deadlands, and even if the volume was there, the pricing is at best 3x more, with what seems like a much lower drop rate. All in all, it's a horribly implemented system. At least with the first set of Ancestral pages, you could target a zone for 2-3 of the specific pages that you were looking for instead of playing the 1 in 14 lottery in the newer zones.

Carcamongus · August 2022

Ancestral Reach leads can drop from the 6 maps from W. Skyrim and the 2 from the Reach. Ancestral Akaviri, from 6. Ancestral Daedric, from 2. Yeah, this is a problem. It took me over a year to complete the first and I only completed the second because a lot of Blackwood maps dropped from that zone's event. Even then, I was only able to collect all pages because I got piles of maps, as the lead drop rate was atrocious. As for the Daedric one, I got the maces lead on my first try. Pretty lucky, one might say? Well, I only got another lead on the 10th map and it was for the same bloody page.

I don't mind some stuff being difficult to acquire. However, having to jump through three RNGeesus hoops can't be properly described simply as difficult, but rather unreasonable, rage-inducing, frustrating and bad.

A way to make this less painful would be to bump the drop rate of the desired maps. This could be done by adding them to the daily reward coffers, which in turn would lead more people to do those quests, thus keeping the zones populated enough that finding a group to kill a WB might possibly not be such a pain.

tim77 · August 2022

the motifs should be curated AT LEAST!

the stickerbook was a good thing but at the same time they made so much steps backwards as well in case of stupid grinds, leads, compagnions, mystics just to name a few...

PurpleScroll · August 2022

I ended up just searching for the motifs in traders because I do not have the time or patience to deal with the RNG that is treasure maps and antiquity leads. It's simply not fun and is in need of serious rework - I like some of the suggestions made here, such as them being curated.

Tra_Lalan · August 2022

So you were two pages short and decided to play the roulette till you get those two particular missing pages?

I think you should just change the way you are collecting motifs. Here is a more healthy way:
1/ farm them as long as it is fun,
2/ sell duplicates
3/ buy the missing ones for the gold from duplicates.
Done.

For me 3-4 pages short is usually the time when I buy them.

Basicaly You can curate the drop by yourself just by trading duplicates for the missing ones.

jaws343 · August 2022

Carcamongus wrote: »

Ancestral Reach leads can drop from the 6 maps from W. Skyrim and the 2 from the Reach. Ancestral Akaviri, from 6. Ancestral Daedric, from 2. Yeah, this is a problem. It took me over a year to complete the first and I only completed the second because a lot of Blackwood maps dropped from that zone's event. Even then, I was only able to collect all pages because I got piles of maps, as the lead drop rate was atrocious. As for the Daedric one, I got the maces lead on my first try. Pretty lucky, one might say? Well, I only got another lead on the 10th map and it was for the same bloody page.

I don't mind some stuff being difficult to acquire. However, having to jump through three RNGeesus hoops can't be properly described simply as difficult, but rather unreasonable, rage-inducing, frustrating and bad.

A way to make this less painful would be to bump the drop rate of the desired maps. This could be done by adding them to the daily reward coffers, which in turn would lead more people to do those quests, thus keeping the zones populated enough that finding a group to kill a WB might possibly not be such a pain.

I've found with all of the Ancestral dlc leads, it takes around a 3-4M gold (xbox market) investment in treasure maps, priced in the 30-50K range, to get all the leads per zone. So around 100-150 maps to get all of the leads per zone. And, you get around 2M-3M back on the investment from duplicate pages.

INM · August 2022

Ancestral motifs single handedly killed my desire to collect motifs.

jle30303 · August 2022

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

So you were two pages short and decided to play the roulette till you get those two particular missing pages?

Basicaly You can curate the drop by yourself just by trading duplicates for the missing ones.

No, you cannot, because the probelm is the Antiquity Codex entries - which are NOT curated, and cannot be bought either, because the leads themselves aren't tradable, and you can't get the codex entry without the actual lead - without digging up the antiquity personally. Buying the motif does not achieve this.

CGPsaint · August 2022

Carcamongus wrote: »

As for the Daedric one, I got the maces lead on my first try. Pretty lucky, one might say? Well, I only got another lead on the 10th map and it was for the same bloody page.

My exact experience with the Ancestral Daedric style. My first 11 treasure maps netted me two leads. Both Gloves. That makes me feel like the left hand is not talking to the right hand when it comes to implementation. Sure, I could buy the motif chapters from guild traders, but doesn't that defeat the purpose of having the antiquities system? I would like to complete the codex but that is a daunting tax when these leads are based on triple dose of RNG. You need a map for the correct zone, that map has to yield a lead, and then that lead needs to not be a duplicate. It's downright ridiculous and not even remotely fun.

Carcamongus · August 2022

One thing I noticed is that on some days treasure chests seem to drop more ancestral leads (likewise, on some days regular chests appear to drop more maps). That being said, if cheap maps produce a bigger than usual amount of leads (from ancestral Nord, Orc and High Elf), in theory the fancy maps might be more generous towards the even fancier leads. Unfortunately, I've yet to accumulate enough Skyrim, Reach, Blackwood, Deadlands and High Isle maps to put this idea to the test.

Arunei · August 2022

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

I am dredging this old chestnut up to point out how insanely anti-fun and openly antagonistic the ancestral motif lead drops are. A lot of what is below is subjective, much of it conveyed through gritted teeth, a lot of it is irrational. This grind has made me irate and irrational.

Blackwood dropped over a year ago, and despite playing this game daily, and naturally acquiring a significant number of blackwood maps over the course of this time, I was still 2 motifs short of the ancestral akaviri book. So I thought, what the hell, I'll go out and buy a bunch of maps, and finally close it out. Well a few hundred thousand gold later, and several dozens of maps, I'm still 2 motifs short, because of course. Of course I get an average of 1 motif lead from every 10 maps. Of course they're duplicates. But now it's been 20 maps since a lead has even appeared. So I should have enjoyed that golden age while it lasted.

The ancestral reach is just as bad, but what is most insulting is that the Deadlands has two maps!! Two maps to hope for one of 14 drops to possibly drop. And now we have ancestral Breton to beat our heads against. And with each new addition the droprate of maps is further diluted.

How was this ever thought to be a reasonable system? I am struggling to put into polite words a way to describe the people and process that made this work how it does. I have questions. Questions best screamed into a void, or posted anonymously. I will try to think of some more reasonable and gentle questions.

I want the developers to know that things like this make me hate the game. I don't want to hate the game. I enjoy playing it. But I hate this. Here are some questions. Why do you do these things? Why do you do these things to people who like your game? Is it on purpose? Did you test it? Have you engaged with this process yourself? Is it deliberate? Are you aware of how the experience feels? Have you heard any feedback? Have you heard people praise or criticise this system? Does anyone on the staff have a full collection of ancestral akaviri motifs acquired through the antiquity system? Do you think this is a good system? Is it deliberate? Do you think the process could be improved? Why do you do these things? Do you believe in hell? I do now btw.

Those are my questions.

It is too late for me, but to improve the sanity of your playerbase, please consider some means of improving the drop rate.

Such as, having ancestral motifs drop from zone chests, or better yet increasing the specific zone map droprate from zone activities. So you could get a blackreach map drop from blackreach harrowstorms or world bosses. This would increase engagement with the content. Something that would certainly help popular some very barren areas of Tamriel.

Please consider this @ZOS_kevin @everyone (I don't know who else to tag)

Why do you think that all the motive should be given to the players easily? I believe that such rarity makes the motifs exclusive.

And why should something cosmetic be so ridiculously exclusive? It's not some OP weapon or armor or whatever, it's a cosmetic thing that casual people will find next to impossible to complete in a reasonable amount of time. Games are meant to be fun, not a second job, and Ancestral chapters are generally NOT fun to try and collect. They're a frustration.

There's a huge difference between something being easily obtained and something having several layers of RNG to obtain. Besides, OP never said they wanted it to be easy. They just want it to be reasonable.

psychotrip · August 2022

So I thought, what the hell, I'll go out and buy a bunch of maps, and finally close it out. Well a few hundred thousand gold later, and several dozens of maps, I'm still 2 motifs short, because of course.

Isn't this the point? I assume they balance things this way to get you to spend more time and / or money. The reason they design it this way is so players will do exactly what you did.

BahometZ · August 2022

So when this period began I only needed two ancestral akaviri motif pages to finish the book.

A few days have passed and I've now spent over a million gold just buying blackwood maps.

Now I only need two ancestral akaviri motif pages to finish the book.

It has been some 30-40 maps since a motif lead has even dropped.

I'm giving up on the codex and just buying the last couple of pages.

My point is this is not a well designed system.

At least most motifs drop from activities where you do things. And grinding gear before transmutes and stickerbook meant you were engaging in the content of the game. That was a rough grind but it was an engaging grind. Shopping and digging and shopping and digging and shopping and digging and praying and digging and shopping is boring.

BahometZ · August 2022

Tra_Lalan wrote: »

So you were two pages short and decided to play the roulette till you get those two particular missing pages?

I think you should just change the way you are collecting motifs. Here is a more healthy way:
1/ farm them as long as it is fun,
2/ sell duplicates
3/ buy the missing ones for the gold from duplicates.
Done.

For me 3-4 pages short is usually the time when I buy them.

Basicaly You can curate the drop by yourself just by trading duplicates for the missing ones.

I wanted to fill the codex entries as well. Because that's part of the antiquity system, and I like to collect. It's certainly what is encouraged by the game design. I can just buy the motifs of course, and then wait till 2025 for the codex to be filled. But the system as designed is still a frustrating one, and I wanted to give my feedback again. Despite a lot of people already saying they did not appreciate the DLC ancestral motif system when it first appeared, ZOS seem determined, like with most player feedback, to push ahead. Might be way there's been such a huge blowback against u35. Players are sick of getting railroaded.

FluffWit · August 2022

I have really good rng with leads- including these. Like a 25-33% drop rate. So I'll always take the gamble and do the maps instead of selling them.

I know a lot of people don't though, I'd suggest you just buy the motifs from the lucky people if you really want to learn them.

looshora · August 2022

I had a discussion about these motifs a while back and how it seemed so strange that you can't get at the bare minimum the Leads from a Psijic portal for them.

I figured since Psijic portals are little rips in time you should be able to obtain Ancestral motifs.
After all, they are rare spawns and you could make it like a 1% chance to find the lead. It wouldn't diminish the treasure chest hunt and it would've given an alternative chance to them.

CGPsaint · August 2022

looshora wrote: »

I had a discussion about these motifs a while back and how it seemed so strange that you can't get at the bare minimum the Leads from a Psijic portal for them.

I figured since Psijic portals are little rips in time you should be able to obtain Ancestral motifs.
After all, they are rare spawns and you could make it like a 1% chance to find the lead. It wouldn't diminish the treasure chest hunt and it would've given an alternative chance to them.

A 1% chance to get one of the motif chapters out of a Psijic Portal would be an even worse drop rate than what we're already seeing from treasure maps, so I'm not sure that would do much to alleviate the issue. My RNG for Ancestral Reach, Ancestral Akaviri, Ancestral Daedric, and Ancestral Breton is already at 10+ maps per lead, and much much higher per unique lead. Spending millions in gold to keep getting the same 3-4 leads over and over again is downright frustrating. I get the distinct impression that nobody at ZOS has actually grinded out the leads for any of the Ancestral motifs, which is why they are still using that lead source in each update. These are the kinds of "design decisions" that will ultimately lead to me walking away from the game.

Parasaurolophus · August 2022

Arunei wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

I am dredging this old chestnut up to point out how insanely anti-fun and openly antagonistic the ancestral motif lead drops are. A lot of what is below is subjective, much of it conveyed through gritted teeth, a lot of it is irrational. This grind has made me irate and irrational.

Blackwood dropped over a year ago, and despite playing this game daily, and naturally acquiring a significant number of blackwood maps over the course of this time, I was still 2 motifs short of the ancestral akaviri book. So I thought, what the hell, I'll go out and buy a bunch of maps, and finally close it out. Well a few hundred thousand gold later, and several dozens of maps, I'm still 2 motifs short, because of course. Of course I get an average of 1 motif lead from every 10 maps. Of course they're duplicates. But now it's been 20 maps since a lead has even appeared. So I should have enjoyed that golden age while it lasted.

The ancestral reach is just as bad, but what is most insulting is that the Deadlands has two maps!! Two maps to hope for one of 14 drops to possibly drop. And now we have ancestral Breton to beat our heads against. And with each new addition the droprate of maps is further diluted.

How was this ever thought to be a reasonable system? I am struggling to put into polite words a way to describe the people and process that made this work how it does. I have questions. Questions best screamed into a void, or posted anonymously. I will try to think of some more reasonable and gentle questions.

I want the developers to know that things like this make me hate the game. I don't want to hate the game. I enjoy playing it. But I hate this. Here are some questions. Why do you do these things? Why do you do these things to people who like your game? Is it on purpose? Did you test it? Have you engaged with this process yourself? Is it deliberate? Are you aware of how the experience feels? Have you heard any feedback? Have you heard people praise or criticise this system? Does anyone on the staff have a full collection of ancestral akaviri motifs acquired through the antiquity system? Do you think this is a good system? Is it deliberate? Do you think the process could be improved? Why do you do these things? Do you believe in hell? I do now btw.

Those are my questions.

It is too late for me, but to improve the sanity of your playerbase, please consider some means of improving the drop rate.

Such as, having ancestral motifs drop from zone chests, or better yet increasing the specific zone map droprate from zone activities. So you could get a blackreach map drop from blackreach harrowstorms or world bosses. This would increase engagement with the content. Something that would certainly help popular some very barren areas of Tamriel.

Please consider this @ZOS_kevin @everyone (I don't know who else to tag)

Why do you think that all the motive should be given to the players easily? I believe that such rarity makes the motifs exclusive.

And why should something cosmetic be so ridiculously exclusive? It's not some OP weapon or armor or whatever, it's a cosmetic thing that casual people will find next to impossible to complete in a reasonable amount of time. Games are meant to be fun, not a second job, and Ancestral chapters are generally NOT fun to try and collect. They're a frustration.

There's a huge difference between something being easily obtained and something having several layers of RNG to obtain. Besides, OP never said they wanted it to be easy. They just want it to be reasonable.

Because a huge abundance of motives has long simply depreciated itself. The game does not imply that you must have all the motives. You just want them and you're just used to the fact that you can easily get each of them. Well, or buy when the motives start to cost a penny. Now you're just not used to it being broken for you. But no, nothing is broken. Some really expensive things just appeared.