Why no way to submit suggestions? ideas?

Amethyst_Unearthed · August 2022

... I mean we are the people who play/buy the game and its contents, why have they never created a way for us to send in ideas, changes etc. for the game WE play lol... I mean realistic suggestions if it be tiny or large BUT makes sense? I've made a previous post on it and I have a list of things I've written down over the past months, some things that come to light from conversations with other players , some from reading guild chats or zone chats etc.

This forum is a great way to communicate with others and get information out.... but its HUGLEY under used and advertised to players..... maybe offer a small gift of gold or SOMETHING to new members? I mean existing members cant lose by new players joining, if anything they can learn or benefit from it at the least?

But I really would like an area where I could submit my ideas/suggestions I've gathered... the in-game feedback area does not allow enough letters in a message to efficiently explain or in some cases just type out each single one... plus I'm pretty sure its followed by an automatic reply? if taking time to send in feedback, ideas would be nice if eventually replied to by someone who is informed on the game and its development etc. Players feeling acknowledged or even their ideas being relevant enough to be read at the least would if only in the least create a happier game environment and a more informed development team what players wish to see in the future. Am I wrong?

I'm up to about 4-5 pages of things now, and I'm not comfortable using email based correspondence to get information a crossed or receive any... their customer service in that aspect has a lot to be desired, and need less to be auto replies or copy paste answers.

...... id like to hear others feelings on this? ideas and ways we can possibly get the benefits of this a crossed to developers/management, tho I'm sure it may end up in NEED of new employee's to read/sort/reply to each, i cant see any more then 1-2 in each platform needed? .... I don't know, I just love the game, see its possibilities being hugely under utilized or even acknowledged.

honestly is welcome, and desired here, within the forum rules of discussion of course lol id also love to hear from any admin on my post? this forum is MASSIVE and i could spend a month reading each post/reply and still be left with a month+ of more i feel lol

Turtle_Bot · August 2022

I finally got around to making a forum account to post my ideas for a sorc rework on the forums. But yes, I would love other means by which to properly communicate suggestions/ideas to the dev team and allow for more and better interactions between the devs and the community.

sbr32 · August 2022

I mean they would just ignore your suggestions, so it's probably best if they don't even offer you a way to give them.

Dr_Con · August 2022

they have their own ideas at the end of the day, and most suggestions you post will be criticized regardless. just be ready for the criticism, and hope that your idea inspires a different implementation.

thorwyn · August 2022

This forum is full of suggestions and ideas and everyone is entitled to share their thoughts. Just do not expect ZOS to implement them. The majority of the ideas and suggestions are coming from an isolated and biased points of view. There are hundreds of thousand people playing this game and everyone has different ideas and demands based on his prefered play style. And everybody claims that their ideas are as important and good as the next one.
You are paying money to play the game and nothing more. The product you are buying does not include a "game developer h.c." title and ZOS is a game developer company, not a juke box.

Amethyst_Unearthed · August 2022

Its truly sad how universal the feelings are on how we would be ignored etc... Dev's or anyone involved with the making of the game decision wise or work id hope would welcome our ideas or suggestions as we are the people who play it ya?... I've had my very negative experiences with employees thru the email system up to management, and its universally HORENDIOUS.

I just don't understand why they would not welcome our ideas suggestions and at least categorize them based on topic and when time came to create content related to said topic they could at least review them, or steal them... lol as long as some of them got used i honestly wouldn't care. We play it.. wouldn't we know?

I mean I'm disabled and I developed a social life thru the game that has improved my quality of life/mental health because I am not allowed to drive and I don't leave the house without someone.... which is highly annoying, but necessary lol so sometimes I'm on 3-12 hours a day... I see and hear a lot. I know if things don't change by moving things in the customers direction development wise, i don't see myself staying after 2022.

Amethyst_Unearthed · August 2022

thorwyn wrote: »

This forum is full of suggestions and ideas and everyone is entitled to share their thoughts. Just do not expect ZOS to implement them. The majority of the ideas and suggestions are coming from an isolated and biased points of view. There are hundreds of thousand people playing this game and everyone has different ideas and demands based on his preferred play style. And everybody claims that their ideas are as important and good as the next one.
You are paying money to play the game and nothing more. The product you are buying does not include a "game developer h.c." title and ZOS is a game developer company, not a juke box.

I understand but why not have an area ideas, suggestions could be sent and used or not in the future? we are the players, the community that in a lot of cases universally have the same ideas, most I'm talking about would be minor. Tho I have heard some... very wild ones lol so i can understand how some would think the idea a joke or waste of time...

Amethyst_Unearthed · August 2022

thorwyn wrote: »

This forum is full of suggestions and ideas and everyone is entitled to share their thoughts.

They may be here, but I don't see them sorting thru all the conversations looking for them... if they even look on here to begin with? I don't see the harm in a specified area or email for them to be directed to...

thorwyn · August 2022

They may be here, but I don't see them sorting thru all the conversations looking for them... if they even look on here to begin with? I don't see the harm in a specified area or email for them to be directed to...

There would certainly be no harm in a dedicated forum section for suggestions. But I assume such a sub section would just be a dead area like basically any sub section here.
As for the email address thing... that is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. Can you imagine the sheer amount of work that would be necessary to read, categorize, evaluate, and reply to a permanent flood of suggestions and ideas? And at that point we have not even touched the part of contradicting suggestions and different opinions about "things".
I am pretty sure that some of the developers are reading here and taking notes every once in a while. But at the end of the day, it is their game, their vision, their product and their financial risk. It's not a community effort.

Madarc · August 2022

thorwyn wrote: »

ZOS is a game developer company, not a juke box.

Beside... the comparison is not even that bad.
Because You only toss a coin in a jukebox if you like what's on offer... In this respect, it would of course make sense to know the musical tastes of the potential listeners and to serve them, if you want to make money with that.

Amethyst_Unearthed · August 2022

True, but honestly it would be smart business practice to consider the people who actually play the game. The issue with the forum is it holds a very low fraction of players on it.

The work needed to read, sort them IMO would be worth it, all it takes is a few good ideas to put the game on a whole new playing field. And I think the people who actually play it would be well suited to just put their 2 cents in now and then... I'm not asking for them to honor or even agree with any or every one submitted, I just think its a good idea to have the option to send in ideas, suggestions or changes that may come to mind from players because in the end we are the customers.

I can imagine dev's get stuck now and then and what better resource to turn to but a library of information about what the consumers want to see added , changed or content they with to/don't wish to see more of in the future.

thorwyn · August 2022

Because You only toss a coin in a jukebox if you like what's on offer... In this respect, it would of course make sense to know the musical tastes of the potential listeners and to serve them, if you want to make money with that.

There content of the juke box is available for everyone to read. If you don't like what's in there, save your coin. ^^

Regardless... I think the point of my comparsion was clear.

dmnqwk · August 2022

Imagine if there was a way to submit an idea easily and quickly.

Now imagine somebody has to read them. All of them. And it takes 1 minute per idea

If 1'000 players submit an idea, that's 16 2/3 hours, or 2 working days to read them all
If 10'000 players submit an idea, we are now talking around 167 hours, or 3 weeks.
If 100'000 players all submit an idea... then we're up to 42 weeks.

Now, this is a very crude method of determination, but what would need to happen is:

1. Person A is employed to read the ideas and categorize them into a spreadsheet, copying them all and tagging them as to how they apply to different areas. 1 minute seems a fair assessment for this.
2. Person B has to look at the ideas and spot any trends/heavily discussed topics. They also have to read every single idea to determine if there is a specifically excellent point raised by an individual. I think 1 minute per comment seems appropriate
3. Person C (the boss) has to look at what Person A and B gives them, on top of randomly selecting some ideas to ensure Person A and B are doing their job correctly, plus schedule meetings with the relevent departments. This would probably only be about 4 hours a week.

Now, this is essentially going to cost them somewhere in the region of $1 per suggestion, based on the number of people affected by it (scheduled meetings, people looking at them) because you couldn't simply get a machine to sort them. So they would be encouraging people to submit ideas and paying heavily to do something of which the forums already provide them an avenue to do so - only the thing with forums is the ideas get bounced between players acting as a peer review, enabling a cheaper system to provide feedback.

It's always nice to suggest companies spend money with the ideology 'you gotta spend money to make money' but they already do - with the forums, which are carefully moderated and feedback provided (albeit everyone expects instant results in our modern instant 24/7 now now now whatsapp world)

Rowjoh · August 2022

why no way to submit suggestions and ideas?

Because the vast majority are, shall we say, from a diffent planet. And while some of them are amusing it would take far too long to filter out the needle in a haystack of a good idea.

In recent months I've seen people asking for:

A 'mountaineering sim' with climbing gear and sets.
Laser blasters, vehicles, a hover board.
Sea monsters that randomly appear and chase you - unless you have a pet active.
A mount that changes colour depending on its mood.
Cyrodiil to be made PVE only and PVP placed 'somewhere else'.
Pets than can coo and giggle when tickled.
etc.

kargen27 · August 2022

"I'm up to about 4-5 pages of things now,"

I think that answers your question posted in the title.

And we know some ideas suggested by players in these forums make it into the game. We don't know if it is because someone at ZoS read the idea and passed it along or if it was just the coincidence of similar ideas. Developers not responding in the forums does not mean they've not seen or been made aware of requests, suggestions and ideas.

Madarc · August 2022

Tandor · August 2022

Amethyst_Unearthed wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

This forum is full of suggestions and ideas and everyone is entitled to share their thoughts.

They may be here, but I don't see them sorting thru all the conversations looking for them... if they even look on here to begin with? I don't see the harm in a specified area or email for them to be directed to...

The fact is that there have been a number of things implemented following suggestions made here. One example off the top of my head would be the ability to move the order of your characters on the character selection screen.

There are several issues that often arise with player suggestions.

First, what may be a QoL improvement to one player could well be a game-breaker to another player.

Second, suggestions often amount to no more that "That game has a feature I like, this game should have it too" which ignores the fact that people are playing this game, not that game, and just because one game has a particular feature doesn't mean all the other games should have it too.

Third, people suggest adding something thinking they'll get it for free and then complain when it's introduced through the Crown Store!

Last, players will only ever suggest something they want without regard to what other players may think about it. That can lead to arguments developing where the original poster feels compelled to reply critically to every other poster who expresses a contrary view. Such threads get derailed (and closed by the Mods) very quickly. If you do make a suggestion, keep it brief (no long walls of text if you want it read) and respect the feedback you get from other players who may approach the game very differently to you and whose opinions are just as valid as yours. Also, make it clear that you are just putting forward your own thoughts. Using phrases like "I think we can all agree that..." is a sure-fire way of attracting the attention of those who don't happen to agree!

Drammanoth · August 2022

sbr32 wrote: »

they would just ignore your suggestions, so it's probably best if they don't even offer you a way to give them.

Saddening, for it is true

Dr_Con wrote: »

they have their own ideas at the end of the day, and most suggestions you post will be criticized regardless.

How many combat changes have been introduced that NONE of us asked for?

ToT were aimed at keeping us stuck to the screen - instead, they are the reason why people are reluctant to purchase the game, as it shows that instead of listening to MYRIADS of our ideas - honestly, some of the community’s ideas are just astonishing - they have their own…

thorwyn wrote: »

This forum is full of suggestions and ideas and everyone is entitled to share their thoughts.(...) There are hundreds of thousand people playing this game and everyone has different ideas and demands based on his prefered play style.

And if those hundreds of thousands of players - okay, maybe less - would like to see the same thing (eg. improved fishing, a new weapon skill, new battleground, new PvP zone, extended CP 2.0 Craft tree) is it really below them to do something about it?

Rowjoh wrote: »

why no way to submit suggestions and ideas?

Because the vast majority are, shall we say, from a diffent planet. And while some of them are amusing it would take far too long to filter out the needle in a haystack of a good idea.

In recent months I've seen people asking for:

A 'mountaineering sim' with climbing gear and sets.
Laser blasters, vehicles, a hover board.
Sea monsters that randomly appear and chase you - unless you have a pet active.
A mount that changes colour depending on its mood.
Cyrodiil to be made PVE only and PVP placed 'somewhere else'.
Pets than can coo and giggle when tickled.
etc.

Well, if Devs ignore the wants above, I will NOT argue with them. And this IS justified

ZeroDPS · August 2022

u need to pay to win, this is golden rule of all games, including this one, unfortunately

Madarc · August 2022

Tandor wrote: »

players will only ever suggest something they want without regard to what other players may think about it. That can lead to arguments developing where the original poster feels compelled to reply critically to every other poster who expresses a contrary view. Such threads get derailed (and closed by the Mods) very quickly.

simply true, ...and that's one of the many reason that there will never ever be a real kind of "balance", which can satisfies everybody.

so many dont even pay toll to the simplest thoughts.
e.g. one easy rule:
"never go to a shooting only wearing a knive" (Jim Malone, in the 'Untouchables'

)

As much as you will love your pretty brocade embroidered tunic, assume that the heavy-armored warrior with the big sword standing in front of you will cut a hole in it, if you give him the opportunity.
Because he can. And should be able to. That is balance.

Grizzbeorn · August 2022

Amethyst_Unearthed wrote: »

why have they never created a way for us to send in ideas, changes etc. for the game WE play lol...

Ummm... that already happens, all day, every day.
That's part of what a forum is for.

Madarc · August 2022

In many posts e.g. about balancing, most people only seem to protest whenever their own favorite item or set that is considered unbeatable is beeing nerfed.
And since we all kind of have our favored sets, skills, and playstyles, I think it's absolutely impossible to achieve an actual balancing between these things.
Apart from that, the attempts to create a balance over and over again nd up more and more in egalitarianism.

Do we really want that?
Why should I bother and still think about race, sets, builds, skill combos, and what so eber, when they are perfectly balanced?
Does that not also takes more and more of the fun out of 'learning the gamemechanics' with all its myriad possibilities...?

but...damn, I'm loosing the thread....
so back to the topic:

thorwyn wrote: »

This forum is full of suggestions and ideas and everyone has the right to share their thoughts.

That's it. So: never stop posting ideas & suggestions, somewhere there is surely/hopefully someone who reads here from time to time and sorts all these ideas and maybe takes them up.
And if you feel overheard,...well then...just write louder and more often

Kiralyn2000 · August 2022

Because no matter what we were told as kids, the customer is not always right, there is such a thing as a dumb question, and the population of game forums don't represent the average player.

(ok, that third one probably wasn't something told to us as kids.

)

JKorr · August 2022

Amethyst_Unearthed wrote: »

... I mean we are the people who play/buy the game and its contents, why have they never created a way for us to send in ideas, changes etc. for the game WE play lol... I mean realistic suggestions if it be tiny or large BUT makes sense? I've made a previous post on it and I have a list of things I've written down over the past months, some things that come to light from conversations with other players , some from reading guild chats or zone chats etc.

This forum is a great way to communicate with others and get information out.... but its HUGLEY under used and advertised to players..... maybe offer a small gift of gold or SOMETHING to new members? I mean existing members cant lose by new players joining, if anything they can learn or benefit from it at the least?

But I really would like an area where I could submit my ideas/suggestions I've gathered... the in-game feedback area does not allow enough letters in a message to efficiently explain or in some cases just type out each single one... plus I'm pretty sure its followed by an automatic reply? if taking time to send in feedback, ideas would be nice if eventually replied to by someone who is informed on the game and its development etc. Players feeling acknowledged or even their ideas being relevant enough to be read at the least would if only in the least create a happier game environment and a more informed development team what players wish to see in the future. Am I wrong?

I'm up to about 4-5 pages of things now, and I'm not comfortable using email based correspondence to get information a crossed or receive any... their customer service in that aspect has a lot to be desired, and need less to be auto replies or copy paste answers.

...... id like to hear others feelings on this? ideas and ways we can possibly get the benefits of this a crossed to developers/management, tho I'm sure it may end up in NEED of new employee's to read/sort/reply to each, i cant see any more then 1-2 in each platform needed? .... I don't know, I just love the game, see its possibilities being hugely under utilized or even acknowledged.

honestly is welcome, and desired here, within the forum rules of discussion of course lol id also love to hear from any admin on my post? this forum is MASSIVE and i could spend a month reading each post/reply and still be left with a month+ of more i feel lol

There is a "Contact" link at the bottom of the forum pages.

There is a /feedback option in the game.

There is the forum, although with the forum you will find whatever suggestion might be made other people will have differing opinions and viewpoints.

I sincerely doubt there would ever be direct contact to the devs because of past issues with attempts at direct contact, and the fact that no matter what the reason the devs give for not doing something that the game engine/programming CANNOT do, they will be informed that someone's neighbor's second cousin knows programming and says it would be easy to do, the devs are just being lazy. Also, personal opinion only, I've been around the forums since the game started and some of the player suggestions I've seen are downright terrifying and, if actually implemented, would make me drop the game instantly. Like flying mounts and open world pvp....

VaranisArano · August 2022

There have been a pretty large number of suggestions made on the forums over the years that have ended up in the game eventually. What it takes is:

Persistence
Popularity
Technical Feasibility
Fitting into the Dev's Vision
Profitability
And probably a host of other factors that ZOS considers but the players usually don't when throwing out their ideas.

That's why we have stuff (not an exhaustive list) like:
Transmutation
Armory
Alliance Change Tokens
Faction locked campaigns
Buyable Skyshards
Stickerbook
Multi-crafting
Encounter Log
Account-wide Achievements
Tales of Tribute

And we don't have stuff like this (yet, and that's crucial caveat), despite being frequently discussed requests:
Auction House
PVE-only versions of PVP zones
More Housing slots
Trial finder

Finally, you have to keep in mind that the Devs have a much longer timeline for technical stuff than you might think. The Devs were looking into Alliance Change tokens for years working out the technical side. Card games like Tales of Tribute were requested for years. They don't always tell us when they are working on something, because when they do it turns into "Spellcrafting when?!" type stuff where they don't want to disappoint if a feature doesn't appear.

With all that in mind, what can you do?

Refine your idea like you were pitching it to the Devs, because you really are pitching it to any Dev who might be lurking.
Post your ideas on the forums.
Gird your loins for criticism.
Be persistent, and hope that others will be convinced to be persistent with you in asking for your idea.
Wait and hope. Even if a Devs sees it, even if a Dev thinks "this is great, we gotta get on it right now!", and even if it gets put in the peoduction pipeline right away, it's going to take a long time before your idea ever sees the light of day.

kargen27 · August 2022

"How many combat changes have been introduced that NONE of us asked for?"

or did we? I mean maybe not specifically but generically. Players ask that boss fights be more dynamic and ZoS changes buffs or some other aspect of combat in a way they feel will make those fight more dynamic.

Players for a very long time have been asking for a solution to the power creep and the gap between the elite and the casual players. We might not like how ZoS addressed either of those issues but they did respond to those requests.

renne · August 2022

They don't even pay attention to 99% of the feedback they get on the PTS - you know, feedback they've specifically requested!! - they're not going to pay attention to any unsolicited suggestions for changes to the game.

Amethyst_Unearthed · August 2022

kargen27 wrote: »

"I'm up to about 4-5 pages of things now,"

I think that answers your question posted in the title.

And we know some ideas suggested by players in these forums make it into the game. We don't know if it is because someone at ZoS read the idea and passed it along or if it was just the coincidence of similar ideas. Developers not responding in the forums does not mean they've not seen or been made aware of requests, suggestions and ideas.

Mind you ive played since day 1, and i use a picket book

Tandor wrote: »

Amethyst_Unearthed wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

This forum is full of suggestions and ideas and everyone is entitled to share their thoughts.

They may be here, but I don't see them sorting thru all the conversations looking for them... if they even look on here to begin with? I don't see the harm in a specified area or email for them to be directed to...

The fact is that there have been a number of things implemented following suggestions made here. One example off the top of my head would be the ability to move the order of your characters on the character selection screen.

There are several issues that often arise with player suggestions.

First, what may be a QoL improvement to one player could well be a game-breaker to another player.

Second, suggestions often amount to no more that "That game has a feature I like, this game should have it too" which ignores the fact that people are playing this game, not that game, and just because one game has a particular feature doesn't mean all the other games should have it too.

Third, people suggest adding something thinking they'll get it for free and then complain when it's introduced through the Crown Store!

Last, players will only ever suggest something they want without regard to what other players may think about it. That can lead to arguments developing where the original poster feels compelled to reply critically to every other poster who expresses a contrary view. Such threads get derailed (and closed by the Mods) very quickly. If you do make a suggestion, keep it brief (no long walls of text if you want it read) and respect the feedback you get from other players who may approach the game very differently to you and whose opinions are just as valid as yours. Also, make it clear that you are just putting forward your own thoughts. Using phrases like "I think we can all agree that..." is a sure-fire way of attracting the attention of those who don't happen to agree!

Assuming people will only suggest something they want without caring or asking what others think isnt true to everyone...

TaSheen · August 2022

Well.... it's true enough for the most part. I've been around here forever (though I just started posting not long back) and I also have decades of experience with other game forums both single player game and MMO.

In my experience, people post what they personally want to see, want to change, want to happen. I don't post stuff like that, because I'm fully aware that this game is the product of the developers' minds, and they have a vision for it - which is not likely to be anything those who post suggestions etc will find "optimal".

I will of course agree (and post said agreement) if it's an idea I like, but I never expect to see it happen in game. It does though - see @VaranisArano's list of same.

Drammanoth · August 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's why we have stuff (not an exhaustive list) like:
Transmutation
Armory
Alliance Change Tokens
Faction locked campaigns
Buyable Skyshards
Stickerbook
Multi-crafting
Encounter Log
Account-wide Achievements
Tales of Tribute

And I will ALWAYS praise ZOS for that - it would be foolish, outright rude not to.

VaranisArano wrote: »

And we don't have stuff like this (yet, and that's crucial caveat), despite being frequently discussed requests:
Auction House
PVE-only versions of PVP zones
More Housing slots
Trial finder

I may disagree with Devs on some issues (like most of us), but when it comes to some ideas, the more outlandish ones which Rowjoh mentions, I will not say no.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Finally, you have to keep in mind that the Devs have a much longer timeline for technical stuff than you might think. (...) They don't always tell us when they are working on something, because when they do it turns into "Spellcrafting when?!" type stuff where they don't want to disappoint if a feature doesn't appear.

So as not to give someone hope to be shattered if a feature isn't introduced - I get it. It does hold water tightly.

But but BUT (Za'ji's quote) ZOS did mention they have a 'vision'. If, IF, they told us about this vision, we would get the patience and know what to expect, patiently waiting.

Let me tell you what I learned while watching a video on Blizzard when it was falling. At the times of Chris Metzen, people were told to wait, as they were told what to expect. And people waited. Patiently. Because they KNEW that what they will get is going to be AWESOME. And... it was.

I suppose the above ties to communcation which ZOS asks us about. In one of the recent posts, @ZOS_Kevin I guess, clarified some things on their message unintentionally seeming passive-aggressive. Which, obviously, weren't. But some players might have received this was.

Persistence and preseverance. Yes. We just don't want our* game to be wrecked by people who made it, and when seeing that, to quote a real-life authoroty:

"something is rotten in the state of Denmark"
--Shakespeare

we become vocal.

* - ESO is like home to us. No one should be surprised.

Bouldercleave · August 2022

For the same reason BMW doesn't want my suggestions on how to make a better car.

Or McDonalds wants my suggestions on how to make a better burger.

Why on earth would you think they (or ANY massive corporation for that matter) would care about every little suggestion coming in? The logistics and cost in just reading all the suggestions would be more than most companies would be willing to shell out.

You guys need to face the brutal, honest fact: This is not YOUR game. I'm sorry but it's just not. I have lived here for 8 years too, but the truth remains - you (and I) are not entitled to one speck of input or control of the direction - good or bad - of this game. If you are not on the board of directors or a MASSIVE shareholder, you are entitled to no input whatsoever.

The forums are a fine place for suggestions.