Quethrosar wrote: »

isn't a trial the end game already? Tired of seeing builds around false god when you need to be the best for trials already.
true or false?

You do make a good point. Content creators and theory crafters like Alcast usually offers a range of build options for players at different levels, which should help bridge that gap. Also, Perfected False Gods (and other trial sets) has a non perfected version that drops in normal trials which are typically much easier for the vast majority of players and can usually be successfully pugged through players posting LFG (looking for group) in area chat in places like Belkarth in Craglorn, and will serve you just fine until you're at a place where you feel more comfortable in vet content if you decide you want to participate in it.

that's another thing. so many builds but so many are outdated. it's tiresome trying to find today's standards.

Quethrosar wrote: »

that's another thing. so many builds but so many are outdated. it's tiresome trying to find today's standards.

What class and content? I can recommend a few options.

isn't a trial the end game already? Tired of seeing builds around false god when you need to be the best for trials already. true or false?

The gear you gain from playing one trial helps you to play other, potentially more difficult trials. Or it helps you to play the hard mode of the trial you just farmed. Just because you beat some vet trial doesn't mean you have reached the end of the rope. Look at it like a future investment.

And btw, Fals God, while still being a good set, is not BIS anymore. Not by a long shot.

You don't need trials gear to do trials, but trials gear makes trials (and dungeons) easier. The max DPS comes from a combination of gear and support from the group

Quethrosar wrote: »

sorcerer, feeling pretty kick ass right now with my setup. crits great, but sustain is harder.
5 mother's , 5 wrath, slimecraw head, mora's , maelstrom back bar.
blood thirsty and spell damage on rings, blood thirsty and magic regen on neck.
all divine besides mora's. shadow mundus since my crit chance is very high already.

only thing i hate is having to keep up minor force so i was thinking about medusa, but that will break my jewelry which i would need to transmute again and i'm a caster, caster's have no right to wear medium or heavy gear! I come from old school stuff where casters are cloth only

have kilt, oakensoul, pale order, thaisian as options but i feel the kilt is useless because i always take damage and it's medium.

That's a solid setup tbh. I would recommend going with 1 piece medium and keeping 6 light, but it's a very small gain if you prefer 7 light. Kilt is great in groups, but I agree Moras is better solo, as is Thrassians if you don't mind the reduced health.

Order's Wrath is better than Medusa IMO. Although it could be worthwhile to go with Tzogvin on front bar weapon and jewelry (that is a painful farm). That's the only issue I see with Sorrow + Wrath, is that neither works particularly well on front bar. You lose a strong bonus while on back bar, where something like Siroria, Tzogvin, Kinra, Burning Spellweave or Whorl of Depths can carry over to back bar for a few seconds.

Shadow is an ok choice for solo, but it you ever end up in a group with Warhorn, Brittle and Elemental Catalyst it will have no effect (over the crit damage cap). I generally prefer Thief just so I know it's always effective.

jaws343 wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

that's another thing. so many builds but so many are outdated. it's tiresome trying to find today's standards.

Pretty much every major content/build creator updates their builds every single patch.

" ... claims to update ... " would have been much more accurate.

They do NOT necessarily check each of their builds carefully from patch to patch to see if something should be changed.

Quethrosar wrote: »

isn't a trial the end game already? Tired of seeing builds around false god when you need to be the best for trials already.
true or false?

False God and it's stamina counterpart, Vicious Ophidian, are age old catch-22 sets in a way, although recently you can achieve their main effect, the sustain from killing, via CP as well. If you want a one size fits all build that will work solo, in 4-man and in 12-man content, these sets are hard to beat. They are not meta for trials, but they're middle-of-the-pack competitive, there, according to Skinny Cheeks, an endgame YouTuber who does spreadsheets and who I trust. They are arguably meta solo sets, which makes their sourcing from trials unfortunate, at least historically. Vicious Ophidian has been the recommended set for vMA since forever (False God is relatively new), although these days the options have arguably opened up. [EDIT: If you are a scorepusher and you know content really well, you probably use something else too.]

Normal mode Sunspire, the trial from which non-perfected False God comes, is not exactly endgame, so even that isn't a real barrier anymore. Normal trials are easy. Just look for "LFM nSS" in Belkarth and join a pug. You need 5 body pieces only. With curated item drops - use BindAll addon on PC - you'll get those in a handful of runs, especially if you trade. The hard grind is only weapons and jewelry.

My personal fit and forget build consists of False God and Hexos Ward (overland) on my magplar. Hexos front bar, Maelstrom back bar. Along with Nerien'eth, but that's kind of templar-specific. Works for all content. [EDIT / correction: I do everything short of vet DLC trials].

If you had zero access to anything, only crafted / overland, I would run Order's Wrath front bar, Wretched Vitality back bar, 3x Vengeance Leech jewelry and 1 piece whatever, e.g. Slimecraw or other crit piece or Trainee or Druid's Braid. This template should work for practically any class and any build. To prove that, I recently downgraded myself to CP450 and soloed a vet dungeon on my stamsorc with that setup. Blue / purple gear only, no fancy (Hakeijo) enchants and no transmutation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM6OrV7YBUo

Due to the particular dungeon, I had to use a trick - the Precognition ultimate - to be able to solo it. I hadn't thought of that when I started making the video. I ended up switching to an Oakensoul build for two fights, but this is meant to be 4-man content after all. A teammate normally breaks you free.

The real endgame is PvP, veteran trials and arenas, and veteran DLC dungeons. Anything below that, arguably even veteran non-DLC dungeons, is not. In that sense your statement is false, assuming we're looking for a black and white answer. Normal trials really are easy, or certainly Hel Ra (or other Craglorn trials) and Sunspire, your sources for those sets.

Quethrosar wrote: »

that's another thing. so many builds but so many are outdated. it's tiresome trying to find today's standards.

Builds only become outdated because zenimax keeps making huge gamebreaking changes to the combat system every 6 months...

It's very frustrating.. as someone who loves to make builds.

Quethrosar wrote: »

I started doing dungeons a month ago. First one I did was elden root because I needed the lead. Decided to try it solo and it worked. Back then I was using 1 bar for restoration and one for lightning lol. Now I have a nice 2 bar I learned to use.

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

isn't a trial the end game already? Tired of seeing builds around false god when you need to be the best for trials already.
true or false?

Its the 5% extra damage you get while in Trials/Dungeons/Arenas. It doesn't sound like much, but a percentage increase in damage is a fairly big deal vs. a standard +129weapon/spell damage and in this game, DPS is basically king. So for builds that can quickly/efficiently/easily complete content, the more damage you can do, the better, and that just happens to be with trial gear with this bonus.

yes, i understand, but i do not think builds should start off with hey this is the trial gear you need to use. if you have done vet trials to get perfected, what more is there?

Builds are usually set to provide guidance on the best set up to run.

But many build videos include less optimal options to switch to and use. Even Alcast builds have alternate setups for non trial gear. I mean, the main DPS setup page for Mag Sorc on Alcast has a trial gear setup, a non trial gear setup, and then directly below that a setup for beginner players, a setup made entirely of Crafted gear and the willpower set.

So, I guess I just fail to see the issue here. One of the most visible content build creators has these suboptimal options for players who haven't been able to obtain more optimal gear.

Stacking sets are more difficult for newer and casual players as it requires more skill to get good damage. Bahsei for example requires you to maintain your Magicka at a very low level to get max damage out of it. You have to do Magicka dumping before you even enter a fight and be really good at keeping up your recovery without it being too much. Kinras is also bis and available in a normal dlc dungeon but it also not a forgiving set so these things tend to be worn by folks who have a better fundamental understanding of the game. The sets that are available crafted and in overland are still run by a fair amount of vet players and our still. In most cases they give more damage to player who do not want to deal with stacks or are not readily able.

Every build you see on the popular websites is designed for a specific task in mind - trials.

Those builds demand you chug potions every 45 seconds for buffs and sustain, as well as putting you reliant on outside synergies just to avoid using heavy attacks (and they still tell you sometimes to heavy attack, which is just lost damage and not something you'd see in most other MMO raiding builds).

Those builds are very useful when you begin, but as soon as you understand why they're not designed for people to use in 98% of content you'll have a lot more fun in the game!

(As for the 'why use kinras when i can have tons of crit' well, on a 40% crit / 80% crit dmg char, which is a reasonable number... adding 10% damage over 10% crit means you do 1.452 times versus 1.4, a considerable difference and why kinras 5 set is so strong).

Hundings + Spriggans or Julianos + Whatever is good enough to run a normal trial and start getting your trails gear.

Julianos and mothers sorrow still do some hard yards in trials/ vet content, False gods is a good set if you’re still learning to resource manage, it won’t completely cover sustain issues, but it does some work, but you’re going to want to chase a better set after a while.

You don't need to be the "best" of anything to participate in and complete a normal trial. You just have to make a minimal effort to join a guild doing the content you want. If you're not interested in that aspect of the game, then it hardly matters what build you're using as long as it makes sense for your character and the content you do.

Trial sets will always be BIS because its the hardest content so the rewards need to be worth while.

Most people start out in easy to obtain sets (Mother's Sorrow + Julianos is a very effective and easy setup), utilize dungeons to get perhaps some sets that could be a minor upgrade depending on class (Burning Spellweave for example is better than Julianos and easy enough to get), then move on to trial sets, and eventually their perfected versions.

Content creators can't possibly identify everyone's place in this tier list of gear so they are usually going to go with what's optimal that you should be shooting for but everyone had to gear up along the way.