Morality Quests - Ramifications?

Shamusangus_24 · May 2014

Hey all,
I've been questing since beta and when confronted with a question of morality - for example: Do you want to push this guy making all the lightning off the top of the tower to his death? I always seem to go with the ruthless war lord option.

Usually it just makes me smirk and my quest buddy laugh as he always chooses the "good" option, but my question is this:
Are there any late game or world ramifications of this?
I mean every now and then i might have to run to an extra spot, or complete a quest without an NPC's help which is fine, but that's it.

Are there any fable-esc things I need to gear myself up for? If not, do you think there should be?

I wouldn't mind hearing "Did you hear, there's the monster that killed King blahblahs son in the woods" in amongst all the NPC banter as i move around town...

Sarenia · May 2014

I haven't noticed any long-term ramifications yet. The quests seem to be simple forks.

There are immediately visible ramifications for some, such as an area changed based on your decision.

The one thing I would personally like to be expanded upon, above all else (bug fixes aside), is quest options. More quests with A or B options, more quests with visible ramifications. Obvious long term repercussions would be nice, but I would be happy with simply having more quests where I can affect the outcome.

Right now 95% of questing is just following the story, which is fine since it's a great story, but could stand to be more "dynamic" all the same. The other 5% tends to be absolutely wonderful, with "shades of grey" rather than clear "good vs evil" choices to be made -- just like real life, where hard choices tend to mean choosing the perceived lesser of two evils. I live for that other 5%, where I get to spend a few moments battling with my sense of morality before making a decision.

Cabot · May 2014

I've not seen any affects from your choices in these type of quest, but I still worry a bit that something down the road might put me in opposite phases with "my quest buddy" because he choose one answer and I choose the other, when a new quest pops up.

drschplatt · May 2014

I tend to leave them alive with the thinking of, "I might be able to make use of you later and if you're a problem, I'll just kill you then."

No moral superiority on my part

Elirienne · May 2014

I really hope consequences of choices will start to show, at least big ones. I am not talking about "tell her that her lover was just playing with her, or leave her in the illusion that he really cared" kind of side quests, but...

*Spoiler*

- do we let mannimarco out, or is he staying there? if we do, does he ever show up? What about Estre, if she survived? What about the three companions? two survived, will there ever be consequences of that choice? Will I be stronger, or different, for having "absorbed" the emperor, rather than Sai?

These choices should definitely have a consequence later on.

Shamusangus_24 · May 2014

Sarenia wrote: »

I haven't noticed any long-term ramifications yet. The quests seem to be simple forks.

There are immediately visible ramifications for some, such as an area changed based on your decision.

The one thing I would personally like to be expanded upon, above all else (bug fixes aside), is quest options. More quests with A or B options, more quests with visible ramifications. Obvious long term repercussions would be nice, but I would be happy with simply having more quests where I can affect the outcome.

Right now 95% of questing is just following the story, which is fine since it's a great story, but could stand to be more "dynamic" all the same. The other 5% tends to be absolutely wonderful, with "shades of grey" rather than clear "good vs evil" choices to be made -- just like real life, where hard choices tend to mean choosing the perceived lesser of two evils. I live for that other 5%, where I get to spend a few moments battling with my sense of morality before making a decision.

I totally agree. I have often debated over skype about which one was actually the true right choice based on the greyness - and that is what gets that immersion for me. If i am getting the same outcomes as everyone else i can find myself clicking through and asking "what are we doing?" whereas if what i say, and choose to do actually has some kind of roll on effect it makes me more inclined to care. Even if it was different gold or armour (which we found out quickly didnt change).

Elirienne wrote: »

I really hope consequences of choices will start to show, at least big ones. I am not talking about "tell her that her lover was just playing with her, or leave her in the illusion that he really cared" kind of side quests, but...

These choices should definitely have a consequence later on.

I didnt read your spoiler cos i am only level 30, but i assume it was a big choice. I guess there really is no purpose to having choices if the outcome is always the same - it just makes it an illusion. i want to be taunted and boo'd for being cruel, and have strangers want to help me out if i am fair and just.

God forbid i kill a chicken!

KariTR · May 2014

NPC attitudes change toward your character yes. I remember going into one town and the locals appeared disapproving where they had been welcoming in the past. I thought at the time "what have I done to upset them!"

Ramifications that are going to change actual gameplay for individual players is highly unlikely in a MMO, but NPCs let you know what they think of you.

Sethyss · May 2014

I wish there were some definite ramifications based on the decisions you made throughout the game, perhaps a range of titles handed out when you completed the level 50 story quest and which one you receive was based on the cumulative choices you had made whilst questing.

Or some kind of sliding scale that is affected by your moral choices. There are (thankfully) no floating names, but maybe the text colour of a player's name could change when you hover over them ranging from red > green> blue based on how naughty/nice they have been over the course of their adventures.

Loxy37 · May 2014

I love the idea of long term ramification and more choice but I don't wanna see skill points involved unless stated as say mass effect did, shown exactly the consequences. I'm not saying everything should be explained but skill point gain should be as its a deal changer, especially if you don't do group dungeons, pvp, every point matters then.

Morthur · May 2014

.

Lalai · May 2014

Sarenia wrote: »

I haven't noticed any long-term ramifications yet. The quests seem to be simple forks.

There are immediately visible ramifications for some, such as an area changed based on your decision.

The one thing I would personally like to be expanded upon, above all else (bug fixes aside), is quest options. More quests with A or B options, more quests with visible ramifications. Obvious long term repercussions would be nice, but I would be happy with simply having more quests where I can affect the outcome.

Right now 95% of questing is just following the story, which is fine since it's a great story, but could stand to be more "dynamic" all the same. The other 5% tends to be absolutely wonderful, with "shades of grey" rather than clear "good vs evil" choices to be made -- just like real life, where hard choices tend to mean choosing the perceived lesser of two evils. I live for that other 5%, where I get to spend a few moments battling with my sense of morality before making a decision.

I would agree with this if they found a way to make phasing not an issue for grouping. As it is now people have a hard time just joining up and doing quests together due to the whole phasing thing.. adding more options would end up making the phasing problem a bit worse.

Basically I'd like to see more choices combined with the option to enter another person's phase of the quest. Which others have mentioned in other group related threads.

Sarenia · May 2014

Lalai wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

I haven't noticed any long-term ramifications yet. The quests seem to be simple forks.

There are immediately visible ramifications for some, such as an area changed based on your decision.

The one thing I would personally like to be expanded upon, above all else (bug fixes aside), is quest options. More quests with A or B options, more quests with visible ramifications. Obvious long term repercussions would be nice, but I would be happy with simply having more quests where I can affect the outcome.

Right now 95% of questing is just following the story, which is fine since it's a great story, but could stand to be more "dynamic" all the same. The other 5% tends to be absolutely wonderful, with "shades of grey" rather than clear "good vs evil" choices to be made -- just like real life, where hard choices tend to mean choosing the perceived lesser of two evils. I live for that other 5%, where I get to spend a few moments battling with my sense of morality before making a decision.

I would agree with this if they found a way to make phasing not an issue for grouping. As it is now people have a hard time just joining up and doing quests together due to the whole phasing thing.. adding more options would end up making the phasing problem a bit worse.

Basically I'd like to see more choices combined with the option to enter another person's phase of the quest. Which others have mentioned in other group related threads.

One idea to address the issue of group members getting sent to separate phases:

Upon grouping, members vote on a designated 'Speaker' for the group. The speaker can only initiate dialogue if all group members are within range of the NPC. All members see the dialogue, but only the speaker can select responses.

Now all members will always end up in the same phase. The only remaining nuisance is a speaker speeding through dialogue you want to read. But human communication is a good solution to that one.

oldkye · May 2014

Sarenia wrote: »

Lalai wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

I haven't noticed any long-term ramifications yet. The quests seem to be simple forks.

There are immediately visible ramifications for some, such as an area changed based on your decision.

The one thing I would personally like to be expanded upon, above all else (bug fixes aside), is quest options. More quests with A or B options, more quests with visible ramifications. Obvious long term repercussions would be nice, but I would be happy with simply having more quests where I can affect the outcome.

Right now 95% of questing is just following the story, which is fine since it's a great story, but could stand to be more "dynamic" all the same. The other 5% tends to be absolutely wonderful, with "shades of grey" rather than clear "good vs evil" choices to be made -- just like real life, where hard choices tend to mean choosing the perceived lesser of two evils. I live for that other 5%, where I get to spend a few moments battling with my sense of morality before making a decision.

I would agree with this if they found a way to make phasing not an issue for grouping. As it is now people have a hard time just joining up and doing quests together due to the whole phasing thing.. adding more options would end up making the phasing problem a bit worse.

Basically I'd like to see more choices combined with the option to enter another person's phase of the quest. Which others have mentioned in other group related threads.

One idea to address the issue of group members getting sent to separate phases:

Upon grouping, members vote on a designated 'Speaker' for the group. The speaker can only initiate dialogue if all group members are within range of the NPC. All members see the dialogue, but only the speaker can select responses.

Now all members will always end up in the same phase. The only remaining nuisance is a speaker speeding through dialogue you want to read. But human communication is a good solution to that one.

You could always use the SWTOR system players get to each pick their own choice and that's the one that their "version" is saved with(aka the people yelling at them later kind of thing lol) but then the game rolls and randomly picks one of the players who it plays out for the quest.

I always loved that system cause I could be a super good guy and still get to see some evil things now and then lol.

Sarenia · May 2014

oldkye wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

Lalai wrote: »

Sarenia wrote: »

I haven't noticed any long-term ramifications yet. The quests seem to be simple forks.

There are immediately visible ramifications for some, such as an area changed based on your decision.

The one thing I would personally like to be expanded upon, above all else (bug fixes aside), is quest options. More quests with A or B options, more quests with visible ramifications. Obvious long term repercussions would be nice, but I would be happy with simply having more quests where I can affect the outcome.

Right now 95% of questing is just following the story, which is fine since it's a great story, but could stand to be more "dynamic" all the same. The other 5% tends to be absolutely wonderful, with "shades of grey" rather than clear "good vs evil" choices to be made -- just like real life, where hard choices tend to mean choosing the perceived lesser of two evils. I live for that other 5%, where I get to spend a few moments battling with my sense of morality before making a decision.

I would agree with this if they found a way to make phasing not an issue for grouping. As it is now people have a hard time just joining up and doing quests together due to the whole phasing thing.. adding more options would end up making the phasing problem a bit worse.

Basically I'd like to see more choices combined with the option to enter another person's phase of the quest. Which others have mentioned in other group related threads.

One idea to address the issue of group members getting sent to separate phases:

Upon grouping, members vote on a designated 'Speaker' for the group. The speaker can only initiate dialogue if all group members are within range of the NPC. All members see the dialogue, but only the speaker can select responses.

Now all members will always end up in the same phase. The only remaining nuisance is a speaker speeding through dialogue you want to read. But human communication is a good solution to that one.

You could always use the SWTOR system players get to each pick their own choice and that's the one that their "version" is saved with(aka the people yelling at them later kind of thing lol) but then the game rolls and randomly picks one of the players who it plays out for the quest.

I always loved that system cause I could be a super good guy and still get to see some evil things now and then lol.

That's a pretty good option too.

Svann · May 2014

One of the great things about Skyrim I thought was the endless forum debates about which civil war faction choice was "right".

Shamusangus_24 · May 2014

I noticed in the realease notes on the launcher today about "the road ahead" in future, amongst other awesome things like the thieves guild, they are planning on a "justice system" which lets you kill or steal from npcs and have the world react accordingly!

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en-uk/news/post/2014/05/01/the-road-ahead---may-1?ref=home

Elirienne · May 2014

One thing I love about this game, is that you dont necessarily choose between right or wrong, you choose between choice and choice. For example, do we open this village to outside trade, or do they keep staying in seclusion. Neither has a higher morlity rate than the other - it's just a choice.

And thats why a "sliding scale" of morality, or swtor style evil/good point collection would be a very bad idea.

00Serval · May 2014

The only "real" ramification one I know of is the end of the Mage's Guild questline, where your morality choice determines if you get a level appropriate staff (and access to a town, I think) or... 2 skillpoints that as far as we know cannot be obtained any other way.

Csub · May 2014

I tend to think for minutes even if I know there would be no consequences of my decision either. I just imagine what I would do in that situation and since most of the choices are, as someone already mentioned, not good vs evil but grey vs grey, they are more interesting and harder to decide.

SgtPepperUK · May 2014

Elirienne wrote: »

And thats why a "sliding scale" of morality, or swtor style evil/good point collection would be a very bad idea.

I know the Bioware system is quite well liked but I've always found it too easy to "play the system", most choices seem obvious (DA2 even gave icons to make it even more obvious) and it's very easy to manipulate in a none-meaningful way.

Skyrim did a great job imo, there was the law but, beyond that, killing a certain person could simply result in someone coming after you. It wasn't about good or bad, it was about consequences.

Hopefully ZoS can weave in this concept of consequences for making certain choices in future and maybe expand on what Skyrim did in the regard.

I would be wary of allow choices to flow into later quests though, from a dev point of view it can be a *** to keep track of, but repercussions for certain choices that reflect in the wider game world could certainly work.

reggielee · May 2014

I often wondered if there would be ramifications later on...... (I always choose the good capt picard path heh heh, but sometimes I really really want to go all darth vader...)

ive played games where the ramification wasnt known until later with HUGE protests from gamers who felt slighted in rewards, future quests, exp and didnt like the result of their choice in storyline