Question about the Exodus of the Chimer

brylars · July 2022

When Veloth led the Chimer to Resdayn, their promised land, which way did they go? The discussion comes up every so often and there are always two camps: 1. The Chimer came through the Dunmeth Pass in the North or 2. They came through a pass in the South where some of the first settlements of the Chimer were located.

Of course the stories are vague. Their point is to only say the Chimer left for a land where they could worship the Good Daedra and Veloth led them there. We know they had trials to overcome and so they called their exodus "The Great Despair." They arrived at a wall of ice where they met "Chimer-Friend." After Veloth's exchange with the being, the wall melted and the pilgrims were allowed into Resdayn.

The wall of ice suggests the northern route, but from the story we could also extrapolate the barrier might not have been a natural wall. We know there are mountains to the south but nothing is mentioned of their size or even if they are tall enough for snow. The northern route would have them go through Cyrodiil which would have had the early Ayleids. They also would have gone through Skyrim which would have been populated by Snow Elves. The southern route would have them run into the early ancestors of the Khajiit and possibly the Argonians.

What do you think and why?

Prophet_of_Malacath · July 2022

I go the Mountain route, since END OF THE JOURNEY describes going from icy mountains to a land of ash & fungi. Plus east Skyrims border is literally called the Velothi Mountains. This (plus the chain in South Stonefalls / Northern Deshaan) form a natural weather barrier (for all the ash from Red Mountain).

Deshaan is sheltered by the ash. People who argue Cyrodiil point to Narsis, but just because it's an early settlement doesnt mean Veloth built as soon as he arrived. Most likely (and EOTJ alludes to it, "one journey ends, another begins"). Veloth would arrive via Skyrim to Blacklight, then trek a ways longer before finally settling in the promised land.

Theres also the meta aspect of Kirkbride writing Nord/Dunmer/Orc lore along the Velothi Mountains (Malacath is God of those mountains & goes there in Wulfharth to fight Shor - Skulfadn is there - and to make Red Mountain erupt).

Lastly, Chimer meant "North Folk" before "Changed Folk".

This is an old testament style exodus, swapping deserts for frigid wastes - not a sunny stroll they Cyrodiil.

And the northern route also includes Orcs, the children of the Trinimac Priests, via Wrothgar. Moreover, this route vibes with Aldmeri sailors who left towers along the northern coasts (it makes sense for Veloth to take the routes), the same towers the Telvanni later (in 2E) have grown their towers into

brylars · July 2022

Prophet_of_Malacath wrote: »

I go the Mountain route, since END OF THE JOURNEY describes going from icy mountains to a land of ash & fungi. Plus east Skyrims border is literally called the Velothi Mountains. This (plus the chain in South Stonefalls / Northern Deshaan) form a natural weather barrier (for all the ash from Red Mountain).

Deshaan is sheltered by the ash. People who argue Cyrodiil point to Narsis, but just because it's an early settlement doesnt mean Veloth built as soon as he arrived. Most likely (and EOTJ alludes to it, "one journey ends, another begins"). Veloth would arrive via Skyrim to Blacklight, then trek a ways longer before finally settling in the promised land.

Theres also the meta aspect of Kirkbride writing Nord/Dunmer/Orc lore along the Velothi Mountains (Malacath is God of those mountains & goes there in Wulfharth to fight Shor - Skulfadn is there - and to make Red Mountain erupt).

Lastly, Chimer meant "North Folk" before "Changed Folk".

This is an old testament style exodus, swapping deserts for frigid wastes - not a sunny stroll they Cyrodiil.

And the northern route also includes Orcs, the children of the Trinimac Priests, via Wrothgar. Moreover, this route vibes with Aldmeri sailors who left towers along the northern coasts (it makes sense for Veloth to take the routes), the same towers the Telvanni later (in 2E) have grown their towers into

I lean more the northern route myself.

I considered the southern route because sometimes a place is named a certain way because of a story or legend that has been attributed to it, but does not necessarily mean it's the true location. Also the original long name of Narsis was compelling that it could have been the first settlement and it would make sense they would begin to settle near the area they entered the land.

psychotrip · August 2022

I know it's not strictly canon, but Tamriel Rebuilt (the Morrowind modders) have a more realistic take on the migration, framing it as numerous nomadic clans led by "khans" who followed Veloth out of Summerset over a long period of time. They were all "Chimer" in the religious sense, but they formed their own distinct ethnic groups that slowly evolved into the ashlander tribes and great houses we know today.

Here's how they say House Dres formed, for example:

https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/content/state-house-dres

If that were true, it would mean that the Chimer likely came in from multiple directions during the same rough period of time. Its likely not as simple as a single, Exodus-like migration.

But TR lore is not ESO lore so your mileage may vary.