[snip] That's the cold hard truth. They have ideas where they want the game to go and none of our opinions matter. Weather it's going to be good or bad in the long run remains to be seen as they don't tell us nothing. if you are so unhappy just unsub and don't play they will feel that harder then they will posts claiming doom, as we seen from certain developers posts on twitter they just laugh at stuff like this, just stop giving them money, stop playing, show them what you say, I see so many people saying they are unhappy yet keep logging in, just stop if you are unhappy, i've logged in for maybe 5 mins like 4 or 5 times over the last 3 months and i've unsubbed as has my boyfriend. Show them instead of telling [snip]

[edited for bashing]

iPeriphery wrote: »

[snip]

I don't think marking your words will do anything.

Having an opinion, even if it seems like it's shared by a lot of people, doesn't need a warning heeded - ZOS tend to ignore harbingers of doom because they are often vague and lacking in details. As most people understand, the forums do NOT reflect the game - they reflect the opinions of the people not currently playing the game (if they were playing the game, they'd have no time to be on the forums!)

So far the familiar pattern has begun:

1. The developers plan changes
2. The players don't like the changes
3. The players test the changes
4. Lots of people say the changes suck
5. A couple of people explain how the changes might not be good, using data as proof
6. The developers amend their initial design, not because of the lots of people saying it sucks, but because of the few who take the time out to test and create meaningful data
7. Eventually a compromise occurs

What makes it difficult for Zen is that if the sample size is too small, the devs err on the side of caution and go with their internal vision (which, of course, was tested by them).

I appreciate it's upsetting to believe your game will be ruined, but try presenting them with meaningful, actual data as to why the changes will not be positive and then they can listen.

For example... I could go on and on about 'scorch is being ruined' but if I don't present meaningful data (how Wardens lack a spammable AoE, meaning if Scorch doesn't reflect that fact and continue to produce damage every 3 seconds then all Wardens are going to be forced in the direction of stamina because whirling blades or carve are such strong AoE, while impulse is very weak having no secondary effect.) it'll just become speculation and Zenimax will have no option but to ignore that.

[edited to remove quote]

iPeriphery wrote: »

*This post is not meant to be taken with hostility or harassment towards ZoS. This is just the cold hard truth.


@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam You guys are totally missing the point though. I'm not trying to be mean at all, but for this level of a mistake that's about to happen, you really need to take this into consideration or the game's future is bleak.

PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHAT THE IMPACT OF U35 IS GOING TO DO IN THE LONG RUN! THIS JEOPARDIZES YOUR GAMES WHOLE FUTURE... IS IT REALLY WORTH IT?

The changes are so out of touch with what the community actually wants. We're your customers, if we're telling you that the direction you're going with the game is WRONG, then its flat out WRONG.

You create the game that the PLAYERS enjoy, so that THEY can fuel YOUR life by providing YOU the income that YOU NEED to live, which is ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT during these tough times in the world lately. It's literally your JOB.... Biting the hand that feeds you is NEVER a wise idea.

The dev's can think the community is whiney all they want, but at the end of the day; This game is so much fun and is so valuable and enjoyed by your players, I being one of them.

Please stop trying to ruin our fun, for the sake of some vague design vision that doesn't even make sense and just further diverges from the original intended path that actually had a clear vision.

Over the 8 years I've played this game, the amount of change is rediculous; and the sad part is that besides cosmetic and QoL Features added, it's only been a downgrade. ESPECIALLY REGARDING THE COMBAT.

As a PVP Player, I can only DREAM of the fun unique class skills and identity that used to exist in this game.
I especially loved the balance around the time of Imperial City's release.

Mostly because there weren't so many skill-less sets that carry you in PVP with procs or BS effects like Dark Convergence that can suck up entire groups.

It sucks getting beat by a worse player than you in PVP when they only win because of their gear set carrying them.

Now don't get me wrong, I think that the hybridization changes allow for a fun and unique playstyle that many of us were PINING for during the release of the game, because of how many different abilities and unique combinations that worked there were, and hybridization at that time (Especially since almost all the good skills scaled off of magicka at that point); but even though it was a great idea, I think that it was poorly executed.

And if you guys would be honest and just listen to our feedback, we could work together to make this game better.

Which would inveitably in turn make you guys MORE MONEY because if you have a happy playerbase with good quality content and a FUN FAST PACED UNIQUE CLASS PLAYSTYLE ENIVORNMENT; you don't need to do much else except explore your creative freedom coming up with new areas and content for the game instead of GUTTING and OVERHAULING the combat system EVERY 3-6 MONTHS.

It's like the old saying, "Happy Wife, Happy Life".

You are essentially married to us (The Playerbase), and we are your wife.

[snip]


When it's so unanimous that Even PVE and PVP communities are on the same page, you know that it must be a mistake.

We don't want to wait until U36 for you guys to realize you made the wrong decision and then backtrack and un-nerf everything.

[snip]

Be Wise and learn from other gaming company's failures. [snip]

This is by far one of the best post on the 3 mos Whip Lash in entire forum.

Eloquent
Direct
Redpectfully stated

[edited to remove quote]

People posted that 1T would be the beginning of the end for ESO...that was 7 years ago. Stop acting like the sky is falling. These updates are being done with future updates already in mind. You don't know what is going on in the background so you have no idea how this will long term affect anything.

dmnqwk wrote: »

What makes it difficult for Zen is that if the sample size is too small, the devs err on the side of caution and go with their internal vision (which, of course, was tested by them).

But that's the problem - they were not "tested by them".
At least not to the necessary extent.

There were so many little inconsistencies and glaring issues with their new system - standardised durations without taking passives into account, haphazard and random changes to sets, nerfing enchant uptimes as a side effect, not taking actual content into account, inconsistent buffs and nerfs with hilarious effects, nerfing PvP heals without looking at PvE encounters, and many more.
And the changes very obviously clashed so much with their stated goals for this patch that you had to wonder whether mission statement and combat changes were made by entirely different teams that didn't talk to each other. Actually testing the changes for a prolonged amount of time and evaluating their effects, would have revealed that they didn't meet the requirements. The PTS revealed that in a few hours after going on air.

A major change like this needs a concerted effort for a year at least, with thoroughly combing through every skill, every mechanic, every sub-system, every encounter, ideally over several PTS cycles without them pushing them onto Live, taking community feedback into account (like they did with the HA test). They should know exactly what they're doing, how that will affect players of various builds, interests, and capabilities, and content, before going into the final PTS phase.

Not this half-****ed half-effort that we got, followed by surprisingly sincere surprise at the reception, followed by hasty retreat tactical repositioning that we see now.

Wanting to change core aspects of the combat may be okay (even though they're overdoing it). Very few people really disagreed with the goals that they laid out in their preview.
But the whole process of how to implement these changes, was abysmal.
It's not that ZOS had no other choice than to stick to their vision. They organised their internal process so badly that they boxed themselves into that corner.

Completely agree with pretty much everything, but they literally don't care. That's why i stopped posting. Just no sense. Never been a fan of wasting time in forums as well.
And we shouldn't, but their direction is so wrong and so bad on many, many levels.

And they still talking about their direction about lowering the ceiling and raising the floor artificially, which will just *** off more people, and change nothing in the long run, except for big % player lost.
Again the skill ceiling should only increase, and never decrease.

I play a magnb and a magsorc, so yes, I don't like the news that they will be nerfed.
As a casual player this change doesn't affect me much, I wasn't doing good dps for vet dungeons, surely I am not going to do from this patch onwards. So, nothing changes for the better, it's just the same routine of confusing changes that lead nowhere.

Someone said they have a grand plan, as they have future updates which are connected with this one. Hmm... I tend to doubt on this one a lot, because of the long history of changes that lead to nothing fun or remotely interesting in terms of combat. I remember one patch when I had to slot mage guild dot and also soul skilline dot to be in line with the new updates. I hated that, and I stopped doing any trials or content that required using many dots.

Regarding light attacks, it doesn't impact me so much, because I wasn't a fan of weaving, and I only bothered with weaving when I did my first vMA clears. But this doesn't mean I like the nerf to LA/HA. Why do that? I even considered those builds which boost light attacks or heavy attacks. Can be fun sometimes.

Guys, us players want new features, new abilities, spells, morphs, whatever, not constantly changing what we already have and is fun for us. Tweak that yes, but not like this. I can't wait for a new skill line, a third morph or some spell crafting, even if it means just changing the appearance of the skills we have.

I am playing since 2014, so I got very tired with combat changes like this. It's like going in circles, like someone is only looking at spreadsheets and not having fun in the game. That's why I play only for quests and housing... sorry, I don't like your changes.

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

People posted that 1T would be the beginning of the end for ESO...that was 7 years ago. Stop acting like the sky is falling. These updates are being done with future updates already in mind. You don't know what is going on in the background so you have no idea how this will long term affect anything.

It's been three weeks since the crap hit the fan. If they had a grandiose plan that would put all of our minds at ease they would have shared it by now. And as for One Tamriel, yes it's seven years ago and all the endless changes and nerfs in those seven years have come to a point that I just don't want to bother with it anymore.

Snamyap wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

People posted that 1T would be the beginning of the end for ESO...that was 7 years ago. Stop acting like the sky is falling. These updates are being done with future updates already in mind. You don't know what is going on in the background so you have no idea how this will long term affect anything.

It's been three weeks since the crap hit the fan. If they had a grandiose plan that would put all of our minds at ease they would have shared it by now. And as for One Tamriel, yes it's seven years ago and all the endless changes and nerfs in those seven years have come to a point that I just don't want to bother with it anymore.

Damage is higher than ever before, if there has only been nerfs in the whole time how is this even possible? Think about it.

Unfortunately, players like me rely on power creep to eventually get endgame things done [to a degree]. I get that damage is higher than ever and that there are groups that find things too easy. Do the people that find it too easy outnumber the players like me, that have slowly climbed in dps? Sure, I have improved as a player over time. I'm in a lot better shape than I used to be, and I might even be part of the game that will be able to adapt and still prog GS. Not sure though, I'm console, so I'll have to wait and see.

I don't want to regress in a game. It's not fun but my bigger concern is that people quit when they regress. If even a few of my trial team quit, it will be really hard to rebuild and I'm honestly not sure if I would want to. Finding 12 adults that can get together 3x a week is hard as hell.

Prefacing a hostile post with a comment that it isn't not meant to be hostile does not absolve you of the hostile tone of the comments.

That's what really grinds my gears with this update 35 commentary. Everything is extreme hyperbole and personal attacks against the developers (comparing it to an abusive marriage? Come on now).

Living_Tribunal wrote: »

Tldr

The OP strongly disagrees with the proposed changes for Update 35 and thinks it's the beginning of the end for ESO if it goes Live.

It happens. I bet the developers at Star Wars wish they could take back NGE it led to Galaxies going away fast.

JanTanhide wrote: »

Looks like a lot of players have already "logged off" or are just waiting for U35 to go Live. This seems to show a 50% loss in players already.

https://mmo-population.com/r/elderscrollsonline

I too am sick of these radical nerfs and skill reworks and "balancing" all the time. I'm done.

This is the second time I've seen this website trotted out as evidence of player count. It's not. It's essentially Reddit activity. Before some pretend statistician comes in and tells me I'm uninformed, that this is a reasonable surrogate for active player count, it's really not. If they base their non-validated "magic number" on the last publicly available player count and weight it heavily for Reddit engagement, it's more someone's pet project than anything meaningful.