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I miss deathmatches..

  • Necrotech_Master
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    usually it can still take 5-15 min to queue into a BG, and the BG itself takes an avg of 10 min, so in the current game i only see maybe 2-3 matches in an hour

    i prefer the 100% random option, but i would rather it be like original where you can still queue for a specific game mode and random pulls from all of them (because i know some want DM, and some want to work on achievements for other modes or prefer playing modes other than DM)

    random queue pulling from other queues only works if all games are represented in individual queues (which is why it failed with a DM only queue and random that pulled from DM only but no other individual queues)
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
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  • Amottica
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    Id love to see deamthmatch get 1/3 chance vs the 1/5 chance to even it up and make everyone happy

    It would make everyone happy except those who are not all that interested in DMs and more so those who only want to do DMs.

    The reality is, that they cannot make everyone happy and Zenimax knows.
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  • divnyi
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    @xPoisin you can uncloak NB if you know approximate location.
    divnyi wrote: »
    @_adhyffbjjjf12 OR give a player an option to wait longer for a mode he wants, or queue for any mode to get into the game faster.

    that will grow old fast, it will also drop the games per hour more as drop after getting bored waiting etc.

    If you are bored waiting, you queue for the mode that allows all type of PvP. I don't see any issues here.
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  • _adhyffbjjjf12
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    divnyi wrote: »
    @xPoisin you can uncloak NB if you know approximate location.
    divnyi wrote: »
    @_adhyffbjjjf12 OR give a player an option to wait longer for a mode he wants, or queue for any mode to get into the game faster.

    that will grow old fast, it will also drop the games per hour more as drop after getting bored waiting etc.

    If you are bored waiting, you queue for the mode that allows all type of PvP. I don't see any issues here.

    You can do that, but for every person that decides to wait you lower the available player pool which imapctgs everyone including those that want to wait for 1 game type. The game has barely enough players to support 1 queue as it is.

    Think of it this way, lets say 8 people join the que, and 4 want to wait for a specific game time, 1 of those will wait 10 mins, another 15, anther 20 and another as long as it takes. Every 30 mins 4 people rotate in and 4 people drop out on average. The 4 that originally joined and selected random are used to getting in a game after about 5 mins of waiting. Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game compared to just now.
    Edited by _adhyffbjjjf12 on May 26, 2022 6:01PM
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  • divnyi
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    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game compared to just now.

    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game with the mode you want to play compared to just now.
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  • Jaimeh
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    Fhritz wrote: »
    Honestly, it's better this way. BG are about teamwork rather than just fighting each others. With proper teamwork, I can guarantee you that a crazy king / domination game can be 10x more intense than DM one. I think the main reasons why others gamemode suffers is that there isn't a "competitive / ranked" mode on BGs, but that's a whole other topic.

    I agree, I prefer the other matches more because I find them more fun and suspenseful; for eg. yesterday I ran a few BGs, and they ended up all being domination and crazy king modes, and even though it was pug runs, everyone did the objectives, worked together, and it was a lot of fun, especially cause the scores were super close so it was frantic till the last minute. I understand though that it's a bummer not getting the mode you want, and I hope they can find a solution that everybody's happy with.
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  • Kory
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    If I wanted a Deathmatch, I'm gonna play it like a Deathmatch regardless I really don't care all that much.
    17-1 on some stupid chaosball match so what I had fun :D
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  • _adhyffbjjjf12
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    divnyi wrote: »
    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game compared to just now.

    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game with the mode you want to play compared to just now.

    yes we know this is what we all want, but you cant magic players out of thin air without addressing the root causes that keep players away first.
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  • divnyi
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    divnyi wrote: »
    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game compared to just now.

    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game with the mode you want to play compared to just now.

    yes we know this is what we all want, but you cant magic players out of thin air without addressing the root causes that keep players away first.

    ... like inability to select a game mode.
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  • _adhyffbjjjf12
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    divnyi wrote: »
    divnyi wrote: »
    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game compared to just now.

    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game with the mode you want to play compared to just now.

    yes we know this is what we all want, but you cant magic players out of thin air without addressing the root causes that keep players away first.

    ... like inability to select a game mode.

    that's not a root cause, that's a side effect of no player base, which in turn is caused by the many problems that are discussed regularly.
    Edited by _adhyffbjjjf12 on May 27, 2022 4:05PM
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  • divnyi
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    divnyi wrote: »
    divnyi wrote: »
    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game compared to just now.

    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game with the mode you want to play compared to just now.

    yes we know this is what we all want, but you cant magic players out of thin air without addressing the root causes that keep players away first.

    ... like inability to select a game mode.

    that's not a root cause, that's a side effect of no player base, which in turn is caused by the many problems that are discussed regularly.

    The most discussed problem is inability to select a queue.
    People do leave the game because of it, I'm tired of you pretending that this is not a thing.
    Just a quick glance on online of biggest BG guilds should give you an idea.
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  • _adhyffbjjjf12
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    divnyi wrote: »
    divnyi wrote: »
    divnyi wrote: »
    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game compared to just now.

    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game with the mode you want to play compared to just now.

    yes we know this is what we all want, but you cant magic players out of thin air without addressing the root causes that keep players away first.

    ... like inability to select a game mode.

    that's not a root cause, that's a side effect of no player base, which in turn is caused by the many problems that are discussed regularly.

    The most discussed problem is inability to select a queue.
    People do leave the game because of it, I'm tired of you pretending that this is not a thing.
    Just a quick glance on online of biggest BG guilds should give you an idea.

    i didn't say queuing is not a thing, and i was referring to the problems causing the lack of population (and therefore ability to support multi queues) I said its a side effect of the underlying problems and splitting queues will make that problem worse. I like everyone would love separate queues if the game can support it, obviously it cant.

    The problem It pretty self evident, ZOS want the player base to be happy, everyone would be happy if the game had a population to support split queues and not be left queuing for indeterminate and unstable periods, but the game has issues preventing it, otherwise ZOS would do it like a shot.

    While people focus on queuing and ignore the root problems the gamer will continue to rot. Ask yourself what is stopping ZOS from splitting the queues.
    Edited by _adhyffbjjjf12 on May 27, 2022 6:59PM
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  • OBJnoob
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    I think what Zos isn’t realizing is how many players had quit playing during the dm only fiasco or have quit playing now that you hardly ever get dm. Or how many people play bgs way way less then and now. I think that little detail should be factored in when pontificating on whether or not separate ques is sustainable.

    Everybody seems to think it is unsustainable… I do not. I think the population is perhaps slightly bigger than we think— or would be if we had the simplest of solutions: two separate ques. We might see a 20% growth in population, even if it’s only the same players playing more often.

    Furthermore, some of the lengthy que times are more related to that player being in a high mmr than to how many people there are. If he doesn’t mind me invoking his name too much… @SkaraMinoc seems to be a well known and talented dm player. He may have to wait a long time for a dm match in a dm only que. I probably wouldn’t have to wait as long. I wouldn’t have to wait as long because I don’t like it as much and therefore haven’t played as many. He wouldn’t mind waiting a little longer than me because he likes it more than me… as evidenced by his mmr. I find it very appropriate and logical.

    More so, no offense, than some of these extremely detailed plans.

    Two ques. Easy. Do it.

    Slight change of topic now: I’ve always been an obj enthusiast, most of you in this thread have heard me say so. I’ll never agree that only dm requires strategy… I’ll never agree that dm is the only real pvp or that DMers innately have more talent than obj players. I was never so miserable in eso as that year, more or less, when I couldn’t get an obj match. And now that it’s “random,” again, to be honest, I can’t remember the last time I had a deathmatch. It’s almost like it just got flipped. It still doesn’t feel perfectly random to me… anyone else agree with that?

    Anyway… in summary. I don’t think waiting 10+ minutes for a bg is very common and in cases where it is happening I believe it is almost exclusively for high mmr players. I therefore do not think having separate ques (one dm only and one ‘random’ obj only,) would be as harmful as most people predict. I believe their predictions leave out the intangible for important “happy customer,” factor that will both mitigate the long waits and make them more tolerable at the same time.
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  • _adhyffbjjjf12
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    OBJnoob wrote: »
    I think what Zos isn’t realizing is how many players had quit playing during the dm only fiasco or have quit playing now that you hardly ever get dm. Or how many people play bgs way way less then and now. I think that little detail should be factored in when pontificating on whether or not separate ques is sustainable.

    Everybody seems to think it is unsustainable… I do not. I think the population is perhaps slightly bigger than we think— or would be if we had the simplest of solutions: two separate ques. We might see a 20% growth in population, even if it’s only the same players playing more often.

    Furthermore, some of the lengthy que times are more related to that player being in a high mmr than to how many people there are. If he doesn’t mind me invoking his name too much… @SkaraMinoc seems to be a well known and talented dm player. He may have to wait a long time for a dm match in a dm only que. I probably wouldn’t have to wait as long. I wouldn’t have to wait as long because I don’t like it as much and therefore haven’t played as many. He wouldn’t mind waiting a little longer than me because he likes it more than me… as evidenced by his mmr. I find it very appropriate and logical.

    More so, no offense, than some of these extremely detailed plans.

    Two ques. Easy. Do it.

    Slight change of topic now: I’ve always been an obj enthusiast, most of you in this thread have heard me say so. I’ll never agree that only dm requires strategy… I’ll never agree that dm is the only real pvp or that DMers innately have more talent than obj players. I was never so miserable in eso as that year, more or less, when I couldn’t get an obj match. And now that it’s “random,” again, to be honest, I can’t remember the last time I had a deathmatch. It’s almost like it just got flipped. It still doesn’t feel perfectly random to me… anyone else agree with that?

    Anyway… in summary. I don’t think waiting 10+ minutes for a bg is very common and in cases where it is happening I believe it is almost exclusively for high mmr players. I therefore do not think having separate ques (one dm only and one ‘random’ obj only,) would be as harmful as most people predict. I believe their predictions leave out the intangible for important “happy customer,” factor that will both mitigate the long waits and make them more tolerable at the same time.

    The problem is ZOS do have the metrics and they can see the true impact of splitting the queues, that's what it boils down to, if it was good for the game they would do it instantly.

    The real problem people should be asking with honesty is why are new players so alienated by ESO BG PVP. Other big AAA games with lower player bases have healthy and successful BG, and again its not queues, or ZOS would flick that switch now.
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  • OBJnoob
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    I mean you’re probably right but nevertheless I’m reticent to let go of my opinion. Statistics, especially results, are only as good as the experiment that was done to take them. Whatever that botched, broken, accidental THING was didn’t do anything good if you ask me.

    And I’d be willing to suffer through another “experiment,” especially if it was the most asked for solution. In this experiment though, like, the buttons should work and the on-screen description should actually be what you’re getting.
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  • _adhyffbjjjf12
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    OBJnoob wrote: »
    I mean you’re probably right but nevertheless I’m reticent to let go of my opinion. Statistics, especially results, are only as good as the experiment that was done to take them. Whatever that botched, broken, accidental THING was didn’t do anything good if you ask me.

    And I’d be willing to suffer through another “experiment,” especially if it was the most asked for solution. In this experiment though, like, the buttons should work and the on-screen description should actually be what you’re getting.

    the answer is what GW2 does to be honest:

    step 1 pop a BG with 8 people
    step 2 THEN ask everyone in the group what their preferences is out of a subset of maps (and could rotate that subset, but pin popular modes like DM etc)
    step 3 weight the chances of getting a map type based on selection i.e if 7 out of 8 want format x then when the game roles the BG selection dice to decide then there is a 7/8 chance you get format Xand 1/8 of the other.

    That's the only fair mechanism that supports the majority and minority dynamically for any given group of 8 people at the same time, and also flexes to meet changing player tastes over time.

    That's the problem with some arguments made here, its made from a selfish perspective, but the reality is ZOS and the player base needs to support the majority and the minority at the same time. player X may be in the minority on one day and they may be in the majority on another depending on what they fancy doing. We are 1 community at the end of the day, and the only way a community works is through compromise and understanding fairness.
    Edited by _adhyffbjjjf12 on May 27, 2022 8:06PM
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  • SkaraMinoc
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    The fun factor went from a solid 9/10 to a 3 or 4 at best. I've only had 1 or 2 quality Deathmatches in 3 months.

    Objective modes can result in good fights but most of the time your team abandons you and runs off in different directions.

    Edited by SkaraMinoc on June 6, 2022 1:33AM
    PC NA
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  • gariondavey
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    SkaraMinoc wrote: »
    The fun factor went from a solid 9/10 to a 3 or 4 at best. I've only had 1 or 2 quality Deathmatches in 3 months.

    Objective modes can result in good fights but most of the time your team abandons you and runs off in different directions.

    Agreed.

    Thankfully my bg guild does premades where we only dm.
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
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  • DarthCuddlefluff
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    I still only get DM. I thought that they removed the other types from the game.
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  • thesarahandcompany
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    divnyi wrote: »
    divnyi wrote: »
    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game compared to just now.

    Now extrapolate out and see how often you get a game with the mode you want to play compared to just now.

    yes we know this is what we all want, but you cant magic players out of thin air without addressing the root causes that keep players away first.

    ... like inability to select a game mode.

    that's not a root cause, that's a side effect of no player base, which in turn is caused by the many problems that are discussed regularly.

    PVP queues were fine until they made the first changes to solo queues.

    I remember PVPing 2018 when I joined ESO, it was like so much choice. Then one day they made it solo only and the 2-3 years of constant bad changes began.

    You can't isolate a "root" cause. It's impossible. You can know what "causal effect" one thing has on another. But ESO's problems are not derived from a singular root cause.
    Sarahandcompany
    She/Her/Hers
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  • PhoenixGrey
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    OBJnoob wrote: »
    I think what Zos isn’t realizing is how many players had quit playing during the dm only fiasco or have quit playing now that you hardly ever get dm. Or how many people play bgs way way less then and now. I think that little detail should be factored in when pontificating on whether or not separate ques is sustainable.

    Everybody seems to think it is unsustainable… I do not. I think the population is perhaps slightly bigger than we think— or would be if we had the simplest of solutions: two separate ques. We might see a 20% growth in population, even if it’s only the same players playing more often.

    Furthermore, some of the lengthy que times are more related to that player being in a high mmr than to how many people there are. If he doesn’t mind me invoking his name too much… @SkaraMinoc seems to be a well known and talented dm player. He may have to wait a long time for a dm match in a dm only que. I probably wouldn’t have to wait as long. I wouldn’t have to wait as long because I don’t like it as much and therefore haven’t played as many. He wouldn’t mind waiting a little longer than me because he likes it more than me… as evidenced by his mmr. I find it very appropriate and logical.

    More so, no offense, than some of these extremely detailed plans.

    Two ques. Easy. Do it.

    Slight change of topic now: I’ve always been an obj enthusiast, most of you in this thread have heard me say so. I’ll never agree that only dm requires strategy… I’ll never agree that dm is the only real pvp or that DMers innately have more talent than obj players. I was never so miserable in eso as that year, more or less, when I couldn’t get an obj match. And now that it’s “random,” again, to be honest, I can’t remember the last time I had a deathmatch. It’s almost like it just got flipped. It still doesn’t feel perfectly random to me… anyone else agree with that?

    Anyway… in summary. I don’t think waiting 10+ minutes for a bg is very common and in cases where it is happening I believe it is almost exclusively for high mmr players. I therefore do not think having separate ques (one dm only and one ‘random’ obj only,) would be as harmful as most people predict. I believe their predictions leave out the intangible for important “happy customer,” factor that will both mitigate the long waits and make them more tolerable at the same time.

    The problem is ZOS do have the metrics and they can see the true impact of splitting the queues, that's what it boils down to, if it was good for the game they would do it instantly.

    The real problem people should be asking with honesty is why are new players so alienated by ESO BG PVP. Other big AAA games with lower player bases have healthy and successful BG, and again its not queues, or ZOS would flick that switch now.

    DM only queues are what are good for the game. No need for metrics here as PVP is supposed to have combat which is what dm is all about

    By other games you mean the ones with lower APM and dated combat systems. No one gives a **** about those
    Edited by PhoenixGrey on July 25, 2022 11:13PM
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