Must increase pop cap to combat blatant, admitted and documented cross faction cooperation on PC NA

EdmondDontes · July 2022

There is now continuous, blatant and well documented cross faction cooperation going on in the PC NA Greyhost campaign. The only way to stop it without banning the players coordinating the cooperation is to at least double the current population caps in cyrodiil. 80 players per faction is simply not enough. Such low pop caps create massive toxicity due to the fact that we are always fighting the exact same players, and the cross faction cooperation is off the charts, creating more toxicity.

Between the super low pop caps, Dark Convergence, undeniable cross faction cooperation and godlike powered ball groups cyrodiil is just not fun anymore. The games premier end game zone is dying a slow and painful death. ....and ZOS seems perfectly happy to see it die off judging by their complete lack of will or ability to do anything to save it.

Most people don't bother to post that this is why they are leaving ESO, but this is why. People don't even post in the alliance war forums anymore because they know it's akin to farting in a hurricane....nobodies ever going to notice or care anyway.

VaranisArano · July 2022

ZOS can't increase the pop cap without performance suffering. Nothing's going to be done unless the server rearchitecture fixes performance.

Telel · July 2022

The only thing people can do is get that documentation out to as many people as possible. Possibly while encouraging them to report the abusers, and then send ZOS the evidence in any reply emails.

Don't try to directly confront the scrubs who resort to this behavior either. Most of them seem to want attention very badly, and go to extreme lengths to get it. Not to mention saying the most absurd things to try and defend their unfortunate choices.

Best to just treat them as yet another number on a long long list of people who've done the same exact thing.

Also be ready for the backlash. People who resort to scrubby methods tend to get very triggered, and become desperate to make their detractors 'look bad'. Which is mostly just a lot of name calling, and some cyber stalking.

Oh, and remember to laugh about it. After all you and a handful of more legitimate players are obviously such a threat that they've had to sink so very low. Often to achieve a task most of us see as rather simple.

Theignson · July 2022

I play on EP starting most nights at around 1030 PSt (130 EST), sometimes earlier. What I've noticed in the last 40 days or so are the population bars are completely wrong. They claim EP is poplocked but in zone there are very few EP. Mobs of AD outnumber us 3 or 4 to 1.

Some people have suggested that other factions are logging onto EP with their alternate accounts, I have no proof whatsoever of this.

But, AvA at that hour is dead. There are no EP. Recently it has been DC and AD ganging up on EP to take all their stuff. Last night, I logged on and EP gave up Arrius with no defense, despite the population supposedly at poplocked. Zone chat was empty. Then AD took Farragut with no defense from EP, so I realized the game was dead and just logged off.

Probably the original post is related to exactly the opposite thing, maybe someone on AD saying DC and EP are coordinating. It all depends on the hours. Every faction gets brutalized at some point in 24 hours.

Even if they raised the Population, it wouldn't matter because no one is logging onto to play (except AD which has a huge blob at that hour).

What I always liked about PvP was large scale battles and keep defense etc between evenly matched factions. I know other people like to tower hump or 1vX and thats fine. But large scale PvP at the hours I can play is dead....RIP

Akinos · July 2022

Of all the problems with PvP and the game in general, people are worried about other people having friends on other factions?

xylena_lazarow · July 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

There is now continuous, blatant and well documented cross faction cooperation going on in the PC NA Greyhost campaign.

Impossible, this problem was solved by faction locks.

Tevalicious · July 2022

Akinos wrote: »

Of all the problems with PvP and the game in general, people are worried about other people having friends on other factions?

But akinos, every faction is working with another faction to gang up on all the other factions. its so obvious.

Cuddlypuff · July 2022

Being double teamed is literally the best part of Cyrodiil nowadays. It's the only time there is enough action to actually enjoy the gameplay without downtime and boredom.

EdmondDontes · July 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS can't increase the pop cap without performance suffering. Nothing's going to be done unless the server rearchitecture fixes performance.

Well ZOS need to get their act together and fix their game then. It's not our duty to kowtow. It's ZOS' responsibility to deliver the product we pay for. The product ZOS currently delivers is a far cry from what it used to be. We all know they can do better, yet so many let them get away with delivering less and less while still charging the same price.

This is not a problem with the players demanding a working product as it used to be.

EdmondDontes · July 2022

Akinos wrote: »

Of all the problems with PvP and the game in general, people are worried about other people having friends on other factions?

Straw-man argument. Nobody said anything about having issues with having friends on other factions. Everyone who's been playing for any significant amount of time has friends on other factions. The complaint is cooperating and coordinating with players that aren't on your faction.

xylena_lazarow · July 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

The complaint is cooperating and coordinating with players that aren't on your faction.

Nope, solved by faction locks. If what you're saying is true, that would mean faction locks are a miserable failure, hmm...

VaranisArano · July 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS can't increase the pop cap without performance suffering. Nothing's going to be done unless the server rearchitecture fixes performance.

Well ZOS need to get their act together and fix their game then. It's not our duty to kowtow. It's ZOS' responsibility to deliver the product we pay for. The product ZOS currently delivers is a far cry from what it used to be. We all know they can do better, yet so many let them get away with delivering less and less while still charging the same price.

This is not a problem with the players demanding a working product as it used to be.

We've known since the Devs announced the server rearchitecture that it was going to be a lengthy process, and that there weren't going to be major changes in PVP until it was done (assuming its successful in addressing the performance problems.)

So demand all you want. I want working PVP too
I'm just saying you might want to consider the practical realities of your request, and temper your expectations accordingly.

blktauna · July 2022

You know who the cooperators are, don't res them. ever.

if you see them, you know its a trap, just go elsewhere.

Yes it does suck.

Rohamad_Ali · July 2022

Multi faction guild cooperation has been going on since Jabberwalky, Thornblade era. It is impossible for ZoS to stop. How would they enforce it? Stop allowing multi accounts? IP Monitor players? IDK how they could. Anything they would try would probably get Us more lag.

When PvP use to give PvE faction players buffs it was much worse. Understanding the sentiment however, no ideas come to mind how.

EdmondDontes · July 2022

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Multi faction guild cooperation has been going on since Jabberwalky, Thornblade era. It is impossible for ZoS to stop. How would they enforce it? Stop allowing multi accounts? IP Monitor players? IDK how they could. Anything they would try would probably get Us more lag.

When PvP use to give PvE faction players buffs it was much worse. Understanding the sentiment however, no ideas come to mind how.

The idea I proposed is to at least double or triple the current population cap, thus diluting the effects of cross faction cooperation. Besides, we used to have a pop cap of around 400 players/faction or more, now it's clear down around 80/faction. This is only one reason the pop cap needs to be increased.

Rohamad_Ali · July 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Multi faction guild cooperation has been going on since Jabberwalky, Thornblade era. It is impossible for ZoS to stop. How would they enforce it? Stop allowing multi accounts? IP Monitor players? IDK how they could. Anything they would try would probably get Us more lag.

When PvP use to give PvE faction players buffs it was much worse. Understanding the sentiment however, no ideas come to mind how.

The idea I proposed is to at least double or triple the current population cap, thus diluting the effects of cross faction cooperation. Besides, we used to have a pop cap of around 400 players/faction or more, now it's clear down around 80/faction. This is only one reason the pop cap needs to be increased.

It's an interesting theory. I'm not apposed to a solution or against this one, just seems lag was the reason for pop cap reductions.

Cuddlypuff · July 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

The idea I proposed is to at least double or triple the current population cap, thus diluting the effects of cross faction cooperation. Besides, we used to have a pop cap of around 400 players/faction or more, now it's clear down around 80/faction. This is only one reason the pop cap needs to be increased.

17 posts in and I still have no idea what CROSS FACTION COOPERATION is.

Theignson wrote: »

I play on EP starting most nights at around 1030 PSt (130 EST), sometimes earlier. What I've noticed in the last 40 days or so are the population bars are completely wrong. They claim EP is poplocked but in zone there are very few EP. Mobs of AD outnumber us 3 or 4 to 1.

Some people have suggested that other factions are logging onto EP with their alternate accounts, I have no proof whatsoever of this.

But, AvA at that hour is dead. There are no EP. Recently it has been DC and AD ganging up on EP to take all their stuff. Last night, I logged on and EP gave up Arrius with no defense, despite the population supposedly at poplocked. Zone chat was empty. Then AD took Farragut with no defense from EP, so I realized the game was dead and just logged off.

I am familiar with this timezone. AD stacks a couple of ball zergs to bulldoze keeps with lag, and nobody has the motivation to siege against that either. Even though DC has few players on, it's demoralizing for EP to push because they just get farmed on doors and resources by bombers and small scalers. It's basically a pug's nightmare and it doesn't surprise me that nobody wants to come out of spawn.

Kartalin · July 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Besides, we used to have a pop cap of around 400 players/faction or more, now it's clear down around 80/faction..

Proof? You keep throwing around this number with no basis and your only evidence is that you don’t see that many people around. But that’s insufficient and inconsequential.

Telel · July 2022

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

17 posts in and I still have no idea what CROSS FACTION COOPERATION is.

It's when a number of players get characters one more than one faction at a time, and purposely coordinate in order to enable some pretty scummy behavior.

Examples include

1) Letting your friends kill you over and over again for what amounts to 'free' AP.

2) Placing siege or camps in bad spots so that defenders can't respond to your friends assault.

3) Relaying zone chat from one faction so your friends know where groups are going.

4) Logging in toons and just leaving them online to prevent low pop bonuses and or keep people from getting through queues quickly. Often comboed with the zone chat relay in number 3.

5) Relaying the location of camps and opponents so your friends know exactly where they are.

6) getting on an 'ally's' siege and either refusing to use it, or turning it in a direction where it's useless.

7) Encouraging randoms to go in a direction that's useful to the other team but not for the team they're currently playing on.

8) Showing up to fights and purposely helping one side out so they can win. Often while standing right next to each other Which effectively gives one team more players than their population cap would allow.

9) Using alts to pick up scrolls so that your opponents can't stop you. E.G: DC Player on an AD toon picks up Ghartok from Faregyl. He then runs it up to Warden before his friends on DC toons 'kill' him and takes it. Thus preventing AD players from attacking the scroll carrier.

Alternatively. DC player on AD toon picks up mnem from warden right as AD is laying siege to it. He then runs it away from the other AD until DC can bring enough people to 'win'. He then hands it back over to the DC players who place it back in Warden.

I've seen all of this done over the years, and even have various video clips of it. Sadly forum rules prevent them from being linked here.

At one point this level of scrubbery was so abused it led to the largest known public mass ban in the game's history. It's also the reason there's now a timer on O ticks in Cyrodiil and they brought back faction locks.

Fortunately the latter helped a bit. There are however are still PVdoor guilds, and hardcrore scrubs who're desperate enough to do things like this.

EdmondDontes · July 2022

Kartalin wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Besides, we used to have a pop cap of around 400 players/faction or more, now it's clear down around 80/faction..

Proof? You keep throwing around this number with no basis and your only evidence is that you don’t see that many people around. But that’s insufficient and inconsequential.

Proof that the pop cap is a tiny fraction of what it used to be??? How do you prove water is wet? You obviously are new to ESO or never step foot in cyrodiil.

The proof is basic math and being able to count to 80.

Lebkuchen · July 2022

I feel like 80 is too much, on Ps4 EU i have not seen so many players for a very very very long time. Maybe 60 or even less? I would like to see some official numbers too, but official info is hard to find in this game.

Holycannoli · July 2022

Telel wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

17 posts in and I still have no idea what CROSS FACTION COOPERATION is.

It's when a number of players get characters one more than one faction at a time, and purposely coordinate in order to enable some pretty scummy behavior.

Examples include

1) Letting your friends kill you over and over again for what amounts to 'free' AP.

2) Placing siege or camps in bad spots so that defenders can't respond to your friends assault.

3) Relaying zone chat from one faction so your friends know where groups are going.

4) Logging in toons and just leaving them online to prevent low pop bonuses and or keep people from getting through queues quickly. Often comboed with the zone chat relay in number 3.

5) Relaying the location of camps and opponents so your friends know exactly where they are.

6) getting on an 'ally's' siege and either refusing to use it, or turning it in a direction where it's useless.

7) Encouraging randoms to go in a direction that's useful to the other team but not for the team they're currently playing on.

8) Showing up to fights and purposely helping one side out so they can win. Often while standing right next to each other Which effectively gives one team more players than their population cap would allow.

9) Using alts to pick up scrolls so that your opponents can't stop you. E.G: DC Player on an AD toon picks up Ghartok from Faregyl. He then runs it up to Warden before his friends on DC toons 'kill' him and takes it. Thus preventing AD players from attacking the scroll carrier.

Alternatively. DC player on AD toon picks up mnem from warden right as AD is laying siege to it. He then runs it away from the other AD until DC can bring enough people to 'win'. He then hands it back over to the DC players who place it back in Warden.

I've seen all of this done over the years, and even have various video clips of it. Sadly forum rules prevent them from being linked here.

At one point this level of scrubbery was so abused it led to the largest known public mass ban in the game's history. It's also the reason there's now a timer on O ticks in Cyrodiil and they brought back faction locks.

Fortunately the latter helped a bit. There are however are still PVdoor guilds, and hardcrore scrubs who're desperate enough to do things like this.

Half of those just seem like something noobs do.

EdmondDontes · July 2022

Holycannoli wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

17 posts in and I still have no idea what CROSS FACTION COOPERATION is.

It's when a number of players get characters one more than one faction at a time, and purposely coordinate in order to enable some pretty scummy behavior.

Examples include

1) Letting your friends kill you over and over again for what amounts to 'free' AP.

2) Placing siege or camps in bad spots so that defenders can't respond to your friends assault.

3) Relaying zone chat from one faction so your friends know where groups are going.

4) Logging in toons and just leaving them online to prevent low pop bonuses and or keep people from getting through queues quickly. Often comboed with the zone chat relay in number 3.

5) Relaying the location of camps and opponents so your friends know exactly where they are.

6) getting on an 'ally's' siege and either refusing to use it, or turning it in a direction where it's useless.

7) Encouraging randoms to go in a direction that's useful to the other team but not for the team they're currently playing on.

8) Showing up to fights and purposely helping one side out so they can win. Often while standing right next to each other Which effectively gives one team more players than their population cap would allow.

9) Using alts to pick up scrolls so that your opponents can't stop you. E.G: DC Player on an AD toon picks up Ghartok from Faregyl. He then runs it up to Warden before his friends on DC toons 'kill' him and takes it. Thus preventing AD players from attacking the scroll carrier.

Alternatively. DC player on AD toon picks up mnem from warden right as AD is laying siege to it. He then runs it away from the other AD until DC can bring enough people to 'win'. He then hands it back over to the DC players who place it back in Warden.

I've seen all of this done over the years, and even have various video clips of it. Sadly forum rules prevent them from being linked here.

At one point this level of scrubbery was so abused it led to the largest known public mass ban in the game's history. It's also the reason there's now a timer on O ticks in Cyrodiil and they brought back faction locks.

Fortunately the latter helped a bit. There are however are still PVdoor guilds, and hardcrore scrubs who're desperate enough to do things like this.

Half of those just seem like something noobs do.

Actually it's the higher CP players who get off being toxic that do this stuff most of the time. It's a real problem and it's extremely unsporting. I could name ten players on two of the factions that engage in this behavior every day.

Telel · July 2022

Holycannoli wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

17 posts in and I still have no idea what CROSS FACTION COOPERATION is.

It's when a number of players get characters one more than one faction at a time, and purposely coordinate in order to enable some pretty scummy behavior.

Examples include

1) Letting your friends kill you over and over again for what amounts to 'free' AP.

2) Placing siege or camps in bad spots so that defenders can't respond to your friends assault.

3) Relaying zone chat from one faction so your friends know where groups are going.

4) Logging in toons and just leaving them online to prevent low pop bonuses and or keep people from getting through queues quickly. Often comboed with the zone chat relay in number 3.

5) Relaying the location of camps and opponents so your friends know exactly where they are.

6) getting on an 'ally's' siege and either refusing to use it, or turning it in a direction where it's useless.

7) Encouraging randoms to go in a direction that's useful to the other team but not for the team they're currently playing on.

8) Showing up to fights and purposely helping one side out so they can win. Often while standing right next to each other Which effectively gives one team more players than their population cap would allow.

9) Using alts to pick up scrolls so that your opponents can't stop you. E.G: DC Player on an AD toon picks up Ghartok from Faregyl. He then runs it up to Warden before his friends on DC toons 'kill' him and takes it. Thus preventing AD players from attacking the scroll carrier.

Alternatively. DC player on AD toon picks up mnem from warden right as AD is laying siege to it. He then runs it away from the other AD until DC can bring enough people to 'win'. He then hands it back over to the DC players who place it back in Warden.

I've seen all of this done over the years, and even have various video clips of it. Sadly forum rules prevent them from being linked here.

At one point this level of scrubbery was so abused it led to the largest known public mass ban in the game's history. It's also the reason there's now a timer on O ticks in Cyrodiil and they brought back faction locks.

Fortunately the latter helped a bit. There are however are still PVdoor guilds, and hardcrore scrubs who're desperate enough to do things like this.

Half of those just seem like something noobs do.

noobs generally aren't trying very hard yet. Nor do they tend to know much about the game mode they've just entered. Heck most newcomers don't even know that there are multiple campaigns and a scoring system.

People who've made a career out of being dissapointments on the other hand....

There's no pit they won't ooze into in pursuit of avoiding a challenge.

Cuddlypuff · July 2022

I don't even know why people even play for campaign score. It's such an irrelevant metric with almost negligible bearing on end of campaign rewards. It is 1000000x more fun to come last and get gated for half the day with low pop than it is to hold 12+ keeps on a dead map. Unfortunately my faction keeps winning, and more and more zerglings flood in every campaign, so I usually end up quitting out of boredom within 30 min.

EdmondDontes · July 2022

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

I don't even know why people even play for campaign score. It's such an irrelevant metric with almost negligible bearing on end of campaign rewards. It is 1000000x more fun to come last and get gated for half the day with low pop than it is to hold 12+ keeps on a dead map. Unfortunately my faction keeps winning, and more and more zerglings flood in every campaign, so I usually end up quitting out of boredom within 30 min.

Oh, I don't know...maybe because the score is how the winner is determined....or something along those lines.

Most people play games the way they were intended to be played. In this case they enjoy being part of a team that works together for a common goal. Most people think about how their actions and choices effect other members of the faction rather than only thinking about themselves.

biminirwb17_ESO · July 2022

On PC NA GH I have been sneaking around to check out various 3-way fights in out of the way places. To my surprise (well not really) I see the same guild tabard on all three factions as they stand next to each other taking resources in rotation and even keeps during low population hours.

To see them standing on a wall as their "faction" takes a keep and they do nothing just sit on their mounts knowing they won't get attacked.

I have videos that I will keep for posterity.

Oh, and nobody on the three factions' leaderboards were involved.