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Changes. That's just the way it is.
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ganzaeso✭✭✭✭✭alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »beer781993 wrote: »
Did you actually play on pts? Most casuals can't kill world bosses anymore. Have you tried vateshran or maelstrom? If you hit 30k now you will be hitting maybe 18k?
They nerf everyone. The difference is people that hit 100k will be able to do everything but vrg, vdsr trifectas. Casuals are the ones suffering 🤣
World bosses are supposed to be group content, they are not supposed to be soloable in the first place never mind soloable by just burning them down with dps. Players might have to find groups in an mmo to kill bosses intended for groups...
You also assume that those players "hitting 30k" are using things like attack weaving in the first place to be so affected by the changes.
This is a common misconception of newer players. They made them more difficult to beat solo during a previous update but never intended them to be group content in the original game.
Long time players can remember when some world bosses could be killed in one hit.(Math before coffee, except after 3, is not for me)2 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well OP I hope that ZoS hires you for a motivational talk to their employees about "change" when the money gained from subs dramatically decreases and potential employment decisions are made.
I'm a fan of the Stoic school of philosophy, and part of it is concern yourself with what can be changed or affected. Fortunately for people like myself who are not fans of the proposed changes we have a PTS and we have forums so we can affect update 35 in some capacity via feedback and if required push back via cancellation of subs. The time to give feedback and push back is before a bad change is implemented and damage is done, not waiting until afterwards because you wanted to be positive. Lecturing the community on change isn't going to help the situation for anyone after the changes go live and we have casual players leaving the game because their overland content is up to 40% more difficult.3 -
thinkaboutit✭✭✭✭Yeah, i mean.. change is a thing.. but we can also vote with our wallets as well which is also change isnt it?1 -
shadyjane62✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Actually looking forward to launch day. I am unsubbed from this game and signed up with another with a an extra ftp game downloaded.
The rage will be signifcant.1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Lecturing the community on change isn't going to help the situation for anyone after the changes go live and we have casual players leaving the game because their overland content is up to 40% more difficult.
This is what happens when players complain that overland is too easy and bosses die too fast and they want more of a challenge.PCNA4 -
mavfin✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Lecturing the community on change isn't going to help the situation for anyone after the changes go live and we have casual players leaving the game because their overland content is up to 40% more difficult.
This is what happens when players complain that overland is too easy and bosses die too fast and they want more of a challenge.
Yes. Very much a case of be careful what you wish for...
You might get it.2 -
Carcamongus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Change is a part of life. Empires rise and fall, you never step into the same river twice (especially if it's full of piranhas), flowers blossom, people are run over by stampeding buffaloes. I'm really not good at sounding like a wise old master.
It's true that many changes can't be stopped, so the best one can do is do what can be done to ride the waves, to borrow OP's expression. However, a patch in a computer game could hardly be called unavoidable change. It's legitimate for players to politely call for this change to be changed.Imperial DK and Necro tank. PC/NA
"Nothing is so bad that it can't get any worse." (Brazilian saying)1 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Lecturing the community on change isn't going to help the situation for anyone after the changes go live and we have casual players leaving the game because their overland content is up to 40% more difficult.
This is what happens when players complain that overland is too easy and bosses die too fast and they want more of a challenge.
No it isn't. The overland conversation doesn't even factory into the update 35 scenario. Even if it did, one doesn't massively nerf casual players who traditionally struggle with Overland content to address the top end DPS in Overland - because that is really what's happening here if you read the PTS forums.
In all honesty the end game players who want optional harder overland wouldn't even notice the increase in difficulty either if this really was driven by Overland because they are adept at adapting to change and tweaking their builds not to mention their DPS is likely far higher than anything overland would require even after these draconian changes.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Lecturing the community on change isn't going to help the situation for anyone after the changes go live and we have casual players leaving the game because their overland content is up to 40% more difficult.
This is what happens when players complain that overland is too easy and bosses die too fast and they want more of a challenge.
No it isn't. The overland conversation doesn't even factory into the update 35 scenario. Even if it did, one doesn't massively nerf casual players who traditionally struggle with Overland content to address the top end DPS in Overland - because that is really what's happening here if you read the PTS forums.
In all honesty the end game players who want optional harder overland wouldn't even notice the increase in difficulty either if this really was driven by Overland because they are adept at adapting to change and tweaking their builds not to mention their DPS is likely far higher than anything overland would require even after these draconian changes.
I believe they are connected. End game players complain that overland is too easy for them and want a challenge while questing. They asked for a separate veteran overland to fix what they see as an issue, but there is no problem with overland. The problem is with how powerful the player has become. It has even been suggested in the pinned thread that there be an optional debuff for these players. Well this would qualify, only it's not optional.
PCNA2 -
Lady_Galadhiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No one will benefit from update 35,this is the main reason people complain and the change fatigue is real.Total ESO playtime: 8325 hours
ESO plus status: Cancelled
ESO currently uninstalled.4 -
Arthtur✭✭✭✭✭
✭[snip]
ZOS shows U35. [snip]
If overland would be "enjoyable" for me, 70% of ppl wouldnt be able to play it. I never asked to destroy other ppl fun tho.
[snip]
Rich: That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty.
Source: https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/ - Last question.
[Edit for Bait.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on July 19, 2022 5:25PM2 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Lecturing the community on change isn't going to help the situation for anyone after the changes go live and we have casual players leaving the game because their overland content is up to 40% more difficult.
This is what happens when players complain that overland is too easy and bosses die too fast and they want more of a challenge.
No it isn't. The overland conversation doesn't even factory into the update 35 scenario. Even if it did, one doesn't massively nerf casual players who traditionally struggle with Overland content to address the top end DPS in Overland - because that is really what's happening here if you read the PTS forums.
In all honesty the end game players who want optional harder overland wouldn't even notice the increase in difficulty either if this really was driven by Overland because they are adept at adapting to change and tweaking their builds not to mention their DPS is likely far higher than anything overland would require even after these draconian changes.
I believe they are connected. End game players complain that overland is too easy for them and want a challenge while questing. They asked for a separate veteran overland to fix what they see as an issue, but there is no problem with overland. The problem is with how powerful the player has become. It has even been suggested in the pinned thread that there be an optional debuff for these players. Well this would qualify, only it's not optional.
If thats the case and they did consider veteran players in overland in their scaling, they missed their mark, by quite a bit. It still doesnt resemble anything remotely close to engaging. They need to nerf more to make that happen.
Given that they said they were looking at progression points between normal and veteran content, I tend to think this sentiment is a fabrication and not rooted in reality.1 -
prof_doom✭✭✭✭✭People wanted to optionally make overland content harder, as I've had pointed out to me.
Nobody wanted their character to be made weaker, they wanted everything else to be stronger, like going from a normal dungeon to a vet dungeon.1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People wanted to optionally make overland content harder, as I've had pointed out to me.
Nobody wanted their character to be made weaker, they wanted everything else to be stronger, like going from a normal dungeon to a vet dungeon.
No matter how anyone wanted it done, the end result is the same.
I'm not saying that they are making these changes to increase overland difficulty, but rather it was a result of these changes that they may not have seen any harm in because of all the complaints of overland being too easy, and claims of level 3 characters with no gear or CP beating world bosses.PCNA1 -
LashanW✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It's easy to pin the blame on endgame players for these nonsense changes. But try to read the patch notes and the combat preview more carefully, especially the reasoning given by devs. They say "Overall, we’re trying to improve accessibility of damage production in the game, while simultaneously lowering the overall maximum DPS potential when playing super efficiently.". That max DPS potential they mention? It's in super organized high end groups that clear hard mode dungeon/trial encounters in a fraction of the time imagined by devs. (for example people clearing vCR+3 in less than 4 minutes, when the speed run achievement is capped for 15 minutes).SilverBride wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Lecturing the community on change isn't going to help the situation for anyone after the changes go live and we have casual players leaving the game because their overland content is up to 40% more difficult.
This is what happens when players complain that overland is too easy and bosses die too fast and they want more of a challenge.
No it isn't. The overland conversation doesn't even factory into the update 35 scenario. Even if it did, one doesn't massively nerf casual players who traditionally struggle with Overland content to address the top end DPS in Overland - because that is really what's happening here if you read the PTS forums.
In all honesty the end game players who want optional harder overland wouldn't even notice the increase in difficulty either if this really was driven by Overland because they are adept at adapting to change and tweaking their builds not to mention their DPS is likely far higher than anything overland would require even after these draconian changes.
I believe they are connected. End game players complain that overland is too easy for them and want a challenge while questing. They asked for a separate veteran overland to fix what they see as an issue, but there is no problem with overland. The problem is with how powerful the player has become. It has even been suggested in the pinned thread that there be an optional debuff for these players. Well this would qualify, only it's not optional.
Overland has nothing to do with this.
Pretty much all DoTs and HoTs were reduced to a 2-second tick rate. To me this looks more like an attempt to reduce server load than anything else.
Most top end players don't bother using DoTs in overland at all btw, unless they are fighting a world boss or other such world event. They just use 1-2 casts of their spammables. And yet most spammables are not changed in terms of damage. Incoming damage from most overland enemies is very low, and yet player armor, shields and passive mitigation bonuses are not changed.
And btw, so many endgame players and top end content creators are heavily against these changes and are basically pleading ZoS to not to push this update. A lot of endgame players (including myself) are planning to leave ESO if they push these changes. Had enough of ZoS massively changing the game every couple of months and now other parts of the playerbase trying to put the blame on us.---No longer active in ESO---
Platform: PC-EU
CP: 2500+Trial Achievements
Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Tick-Tock Tormentor, Immortal Redeemer, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, vMoL no death
Arena Achievements
vMA Flawless, vVH Spirit Slayer
DLC Dungeon Trifectas
Scalecaller Peak, Fang Lair, Depths of Malatar, Icereach0 -
GetAgrippa✭✭✭✭✭
✭Changes do happen! For instance, I changed my ESO+ subscription. It is now non-existent! That's just the way it is. You know what else is changing? What game I play. It's changing to something else!
Great post.2 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Lecturing the community on change isn't going to help the situation for anyone after the changes go live and we have casual players leaving the game because their overland content is up to 40% more difficult.
This is what happens when players complain that overland is too easy and bosses die too fast and they want more of a challenge.
Yeah, that may have had something to do with it. For me, I'm in overland to do something, dig up furnishings, get wayshrines for a new character, open chests, tool around and look at stuff. Fighting trash mobs every 5 minutes isn't part of my plan. If I want to fight I go find a delve or dungeon, or an anchor. For me at least overland is fine as it is... And I guess that's part of the problem too. People who don't like something complain, and the people who do like it say nothing.
PS5/NA2 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is what what happens when players complain that overland is too easy and bosses die too fast and they want more of a challenge. developers want to do something and they do it.
Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is what what happens when players complain that overland is too easy and bosses die too fast and they want more of a challenge. developers want to do something and they do it.
This is the same thing that happened with Account Wide Achievements. Players asked for it over and over but when they got it most were disappointed in how it was implemented.PCNA0 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dear fellow players,
let me start this little verbal embrace in words with a quote I heartly think of as being correct:
“Always with you what cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?
You must unlearn what you have learned.
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.”
(- Yoda. Of course.)
From a rather unbiased perspective, one might actually point out that the upcoming changes are not even that big of a deal.
(I am pretty sure this will cover future updates to ESO as well as it would have suited the same disturbances every now and then ever since 2014.)
99% of the game will be totally untouched, and even the combat will still be pretty much the same.
So what's the big deal to begin with?
Change.
The feeling something is "taken" from them entitles many to feel irritated.
But instead of feeling provoked to rise above and still k*ck ass in the near future, they give in to frustration.
And since not that much is taken - the facts are in the numbers - some people now cry out for the beginners.
Their interests are now the focus of the "defense strategy" of many Veterans who are looking for stressable contentions.
(Amazingly, the care bears I know do not go down in tears these days, but reflect on what will change. Explanations in combat routines will get easier, I can tell you that much.)
Defending the late arrivals -
I call that an evasive maneuver.
If anything, the increase of the durabilities of DoTs is beginner friendly, and so is the flattening of the curve regarding the influence weaving has.
Yes, less different button clicking, more of the same. Again - not really a big deal.
Mates, please, relax for a moment.
It is just a change, not ESO's very own NGE.
Maybe even grasp the idea that a change involving all playing the game in pretty much the same way might bring new challenges.
Up to the evolvement on the rather personal side:
Endless growth, in the end, is always toxic, and sometimes, adaption is neccessary.
Sure, you can stomp your feet and cancel your subscription - or even stop playing the game.
But then, you'll probably end up being one of those migrating birds that cherishes in the ever returning cycle of chagrin.
Try this game, stop in there, try that one. Always the same pattern - since the continuity might be you not accepting changes when due.
Some feel strong by now, adding the latest meta set upon meta set each patch. Adjusting their rotation if a skill or a passive changes.
Their output numbers grow, metrics and logs read pleasant, and the content seems easier.
You got stronger by basically doing the same over and over again, and that is a great feeling of advancement.
Of accomplishment, even.
These folks stand like oaks!
But now that a new storm is on the horizon,
the willow might actually be the capable tree to keep the forest intact, so to say...
Being strong and comfortable in ones superior, save position is great.
But that is not the sole meaning of the "survival of the fittest":
It's adaptiveness.
Emotionally, tactically, personally.
I see a chance to grow in this patch.
Again.
I, too, miss some of the comfortable things that used to be in game, and I, too, do not like the thought of change as per se.
But I admire the progress, and I like the wild ride Zenimax has taken us on to throughout these last years.
Be smart - ride the waves instead of fighting the tide.
Ephesians 4:26
Be ye angry and sin not; Let not the sun go down upon your wrath.
You cannot ask players who are having things forced on them, without representation, to just agree with and even take responsibility for what someone else has decided to do by themself.Thank you for your attention to this matter.0 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dev can change anything they like, they dont even have to communicate with players.
Just dont tell us they are helping unskill players, we are not stupid.
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