Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
THANK YOU ZOS for ball groups
pleximus
✭✭✭✭✭
I'd like to give you thanks from the bottom of my heart for bringing us ball groups and facilitating their rampant destruction of the servers. I'm playing on Gray Host, PC NA-server (crashed btw) and we're back to the same performance as before server swap. I'd REALLY like to know if you reverted back to the old server and if not, HOW IN THE HELL IS IT JUST AS BAD AS BEFORE?!?
It's really bizarre how you at ZOS STILL haven't been able to combat ball groups despite having YEARS UPON YEARS to do it! There are multiple ball groups running rampant on Gray Host as we speak, and yes, they are beyond selfish and solely responsible for the performance issues right now IF the server was replaced. I've complained about this before but pvp just doesn't work any longer. Either rid us of our misery or login to the game and pvp to get an actual idea of what to do. Numbers can only give you a limited amount of information. Look at how they move around as if they're on cr**k! They're unstoppable when everyone defending the keep is lagging out not knowing if our skills are going off while the ball groups can keep running back and forth spamming their skills KNOWING that they'll kill anyone in their way.
Oh, and please remove "Snow Treaders" from pvp. That mythic is just filthy.
On a personal note, I really, really, REALLY regret renewing my subscription by 6 months. Thank you to all the selfish ball group players for pretty much robbing me off of my money.
It's really bizarre how you at ZOS STILL haven't been able to combat ball groups despite having YEARS UPON YEARS to do it! There are multiple ball groups running rampant on Gray Host as we speak, and yes, they are beyond selfish and solely responsible for the performance issues right now IF the server was replaced. I've complained about this before but pvp just doesn't work any longer. Either rid us of our misery or login to the game and pvp to get an actual idea of what to do. Numbers can only give you a limited amount of information. Look at how they move around as if they're on cr**k! They're unstoppable when everyone defending the keep is lagging out not knowing if our skills are going off while the ball groups can keep running back and forth spamming their skills KNOWING that they'll kill anyone in their way.
Oh, and please remove "Snow Treaders" from pvp. That mythic is just filthy.
On a personal note, I really, really, REALLY regret renewing my subscription by 6 months. Thank you to all the selfish ball group players for pretty much robbing me off of my money.
9
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally, I think we need a campaign that is completely solo. There would be no means of grouping. While we are at it, make that campaign a free-for-all to prevent grouping by the alliance.
Anyone is a target. There would be no ball groups.
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Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd like to give you thanks from the bottom of my heart for bringing us ball groups and facilitating their rampant destruction of the servers. I'm playing on Gray Host, PC NA-server (crashed btw) and we're back to the same performance as before server swap. I'd REALLY like to know if you reverted back to the old server and if not, HOW IN THE HELL IS IT JUST AS BAD AS BEFORE?!?
It's really bizarre how you at ZOS STILL haven't been able to combat ball groups despite having YEARS UPON YEARS to do it! There are multiple ball groups running rampant on Gray Host as we speak, and yes, they are beyond selfish and solely responsible for the performance issues right now IF the server was replaced. I've complained about this before but pvp just doesn't work any longer. Either rid us of our misery or login to the game and pvp to get an actual idea of what to do. Numbers can only give you a limited amount of information. Look at how they move around as if they're on cr**k! They're unstoppable when everyone defending the keep is lagging out not knowing if our skills are going off while the ball groups can keep running back and forth spamming their skills KNOWING that they'll kill anyone in their way.
Oh, and please remove "Snow Treaders" from pvp. That mythic is just filthy.
On a personal note, I really, really, REALLY regret renewing my subscription by 6 months. Thank you to all the selfish ball group players for pretty much robbing me off of my money.
ZOS did "fix" w/ no-proc, you're welcome.
Edited by Wolfpaw on July 15, 2022 1:55AM1 -
Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭Ironically primetime ball groups don't even lag as much as off-peak ball groups. I made a thread about my suspicions that the server gets scaled down overnight, and can't even handle the presence of 1-2 groups.3
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pleximus✭✭✭✭✭ZOS did "fix" w/ no-proc, you're welcome.
So your suggestion is that I shouldn't play in a campaign that allows for mythics and sets from chapters that I've BOUGHT just to have access to these items? So, who should I sue in order to get my money back for being offered an experience, i.e. functioning pvp, that turned out to be a lie?
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Indigogo✭✭✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Ironically primetime ball groups don't even lag as much as off-peak ball groups. I made a thread about my suspicions that the server gets scaled down overnight, and can't even handle the presence of 1-2 groups.
Where is your thread? This has been my suspicion for a very long time too.1 -
Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Ironically primetime ball groups don't even lag as much as off-peak ball groups. I made a thread about my suspicions that the server gets scaled down overnight, and can't even handle the presence of 1-2 groups.
Where is your thread? This has been my suspicion for a very long time too.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611326/non-poplocked-non-primetime-cyrodiil-lag
It got moved into "Campaigns" within an hour of posting. The graveyard of all PVP complaints.3 -
Tevalicious✭✭Thank you ZoS for ball groups. Ball grouping is the most fun I have ever had in a game. It has been so fun and challenging, and it has made me a much better player. From the bottom of my heart, Thank You!!!6
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kindred✭✭✭This is an mmo. Grouping and having fun with your friends and guildies is part of this kind of gaming experience. A guild that works very hard, has discipline, people that learn their class, leads that coordinate and plan sets, skills, cp, and buffs. That is awesome. Its challenging and the most fun I've ever had. If you are against ball groups then I think you should join one. See how it really is. How much work goes into it. See how fun it is to be in a coordinated well-oiled machine. They require you to be responsible for yourself and for your others in your group. There is no "I" it is "we." Ball groups aren't trying to take anything away from you. Why do you try to exterminate them? You are free to play the way you choose, afford them the same freedom.10 -
Tevalicious✭✭This is an mmo. Grouping and having fun with your friends and guildies is part of this kind of gaming experience. A guild that works very hard, has discipline, people that learn their class, leads that coordinate and plan sets, skills, cp, and buffs. That is awesome. Its challenging and the most fun I've ever had. If you are against ball groups then I think you should join one. See how it really is. How much work goes into it. See how fun it is to be in a coordinated well-oiled machine. They require you to be responsible for yourself and for your others in your group. There is no "I" it is "we." Ball groups aren't trying to take anything away from you. Why do you try to exterminate them? You are free to play the way you choose, afford them the same freedom.
this^^^4 -
Hayblinkin✭✭This is an mmo. Grouping and having fun with your friends and guildies is part of this kind of gaming experience. A guild that works very hard, has discipline, people that learn their class, leads that coordinate and plan sets, skills, cp, and buffs. That is awesome. Its challenging and the most fun I've ever had. If you are against ball groups then I think you should join one. See how it really is. How much work goes into it. See how fun it is to be in a coordinated well-oiled machine. They require you to be responsible for yourself and for your others in your group. There is no "I" it is "we." Ball groups aren't trying to take anything away from you. Why do you try to exterminate them? You are free to play the way you choose, afford them the same freedom.Tevalicious wrote: »This is an mmo. Grouping and having fun with your friends and guildies is part of this kind of gaming experience. A guild that works very hard, has discipline, people that learn their class, leads that coordinate and plan sets, skills, cp, and buffs. That is awesome. Its challenging and the most fun I've ever had. If you are against ball groups then I think you should join one. See how it really is. How much work goes into it. See how fun it is to be in a coordinated well-oiled machine. They require you to be responsible for yourself and for your others in your group. There is no "I" it is "we." Ball groups aren't trying to take anything away from you. Why do you try to exterminate them? You are free to play the way you choose, afford them the same freedom.
this^^^
Getting zerged down. Even on the forums. lol9 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Friendly fire and no cross healing. If you kill your own it costs you AP. Problem solved.4 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Friendly fire and no cross healing. If you kill your own it costs you AP. Problem solved.
I had few encounters where I had to ally with the other faction to fight the dominating one. The fight was really engaging!. I needed to be really careful not to hit my allies form the other faction.Edited by Didgerion on July 15, 2022 6:33AM1 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭then no cp/no proc campaign is what you looking for. Little to no lags there, no gankers/bombers/volendrunk/unkilable balls. No DarkConv/Plaguebreaker/VD/Occult Overload. Just pure pvp.1 -
WinterHeart626✭✭✭✭Zerg rushes are part and parcel of ANY pvp campaign that runs factions. I’m not into pvp by any means, I’m typically what you lot call “free points”. If one sides zergling rushing and my sides quiet, I just go solo a resource here and there, leave when done, I want my points just like anyone else does, however my goal is the skill lines.
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Anony_Mouse✭✭✭✭Friendly fire and no cross healing. If you kill your own it costs you AP. Problem solved.
I had few encounters where I had to ally with the other faction to fight the dominating one. The fight was really engaging!. I needed to be really careful not to hit my allies form the other faction.
Purple/Orange/Green Alliance confirmed!
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EdmondDontes✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tevalicious wrote: »Thank you ZoS for ball groups. Ball grouping is the most fun I have ever had in a game. It has been so fun and challenging, and it has made me a much better player. From the bottom of my heart, Thank You!!!
Ball groups suck the fun out of Cyrodiil for everyone not in the group, and as a former player who used to run with your same ball group, it's not fun for the players in the ball group either. I'll never be a ball group player again.3 -
EdmondDontes✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Ironically primetime ball groups don't even lag as much as off-peak ball groups. I made a thread about my suspicions that the server gets scaled down overnight, and can't even handle the presence of 1-2 groups.
I don't think server leases work like this. Adding and removing server capacity by the hour isn't an option at server farms I don't think.0 -
Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭EdmondDontes wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Ironically primetime ball groups don't even lag as much as off-peak ball groups. I made a thread about my suspicions that the server gets scaled down overnight, and can't even handle the presence of 1-2 groups.
I don't think server leases work like this. Adding and removing server capacity by the hour isn't an option at server farms I don't think.
It's either this or their Akamai network somehow changes routing at Australian nighttime through a more congested route. It's all a black box to me but all I know is that there is completely unreasonable lag when ball groups appear overnight on empty servers.1 -
Rittings✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mean, optimizing a group to do this kind of thing is of course part of the game. These groups are well co-ordinated and this is what makes them so very effective. When two ball groups collide it gets incredibly laggy - of course, but that's something that will be hard to combat against.
Also... my main concern with ball groups - isn't that they exist, it's how they function and operate. Many of them will just allow enemies into keeps to "farm" the AP from them and boost defense rewards. They are almost mercenaries within Cyro - with little care for the faction or campaign status. We may need a quick defense of a keep so we can push another, but the ball group just sits and waits for bigger ticks and periodically pushes opponents for AP.
It's highly frustrating to see this for sure - but it isn't the job of Zenimax to police the morals and ethics of some players. It might be better if we saw greater incentives for smaller groups - just like XP, maybe AP is reduced when in larger groups (not too significantly, just enough to discourage AP farmers to behave in this manner)... or maybe AP is increased to optimal when paired up, with diminishing returns for each group member thereafter...
Or even better.... if a player in a 12-man group is killed, then make his/her AP value much higher than they would be if they were just solo. That might alleviate some of the shenanigans the ball groups pull... but to eliminate them completely would feel a little oppressive in my opinon. They do serve a purpose, albeit not a very scrupulous one.1 -
EdmondDontes✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cross healing should decrease with the number of players in the group and sets like Dark Convergence should be removed from the game, or also scaled to reduce it's effectiveness based upon the number of players in the group.
Ball groups are [snip] and grossly overpowered now days. Ball groups are stronger now than they've ever been thanks to sets like Dark Convergence.
[edited for inappropriate content]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 15, 2022 5:28PM5 -
Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭I mean, optimizing a group to do this kind of thing is of course part of the game. These groups are well co-ordinated and this is what makes them so very effective. When two ball groups collide it gets incredibly laggy - of course, but that's something that will be hard to combat against.
Also... my main concern with ball groups - isn't that they exist, it's how they function and operate. Many of them will just allow enemies into keeps to "farm" the AP from them and boost defense rewards. They are almost mercenaries within Cyro - with little care for the faction or campaign status. We may need a quick defense of a keep so we can push another, but the ball group just sits and waits for bigger ticks and periodically pushes opponents for AP.
It's highly frustrating to see this for sure - but it isn't the job of Zenimax to police the morals and ethics of some players. It might be better if we saw greater incentives for smaller groups - just like XP, maybe AP is reduced when in larger groups (not too significantly, just enough to discourage AP farmers to behave in this manner)... or maybe AP is increased to optimal when paired up, with diminishing returns for each group member thereafter...
Or even better.... if a player in a 12-man group is killed, then make his/her AP value much higher than they would be if they were just solo. That might alleviate some of the shenanigans the ball groups pull... but to eliminate them completely would feel a little oppressive in my opinon. They do serve a purpose, albeit not a very scrupulous one.
The truth is AP peaks in a group of 2 people, and many ball group players have already come out and said they do not play for the AP. You do get more kills and less deaths but AP ultimately is divided by the number of people that participated in the combat / defense. In a duo I earn double to triple the AP of most ball groups, and I have no doubt that good ball groups can earn more individual AP if they run in say, 2 groups of 6 each.1 -
etchedpixels✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »EdmondDontes wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Ironically primetime ball groups don't even lag as much as off-peak ball groups. I made a thread about my suspicions that the server gets scaled down overnight, and can't even handle the presence of 1-2 groups.
I don't think server leases work like this. Adding and removing server capacity by the hour isn't an option at server farms I don't think.
It's either this or their Akamai network somehow changes routing at Australian nighttime through a more congested route. It's all a black box to me but all I know is that there is completely unreasonable lag when ball groups appear overnight on empty servers.
For PC-EU I get huge lag sometimes even with fast connections. I've got gigabit fibre and I'm 23ms network round trip from Zenimax outer router (the other 60ms being their servers). As soon as you get too many people in one spot it grinds to a halt, so a ballgroup or pair of ballgroups totally borks stuff. PC-NA is better with the new servers but still sucks a fair bit (and to be fair the Zenimax folks said they needed to do software changes and new hardware wouldn't fix it a lone).
There's a separate problem with massive bandwidth spikes so you get loads of lag with big groups if you are on a slow link or have a congested upstream network connection that is dropping stuff.
Blaming the ballgroups for the lag is just victim blaming though - they aren't trying to make the servers lag they are trying to play a game.Too many toons not enough time2 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We used to run raid groups, like 24 in a group at a time or whatever the amount was, and performance was ok.
Now the game is so bloated with so many sets and effects to keep track of the servers can't handle it.
NoProc isn't the solution. Not actually sure what is, but I do remember not long after the PC-NA upgrade people were reporting Cyrodiil was running fine, no issues at all. Then a maintenance happened and the issues began again.
Worked great right after the upgrade and performance started deteriorating after that first maintenance. The key to this is in there somewhere.2 -
CompM4s✭✭✭✭✭How do you plan on zos punishing groups that work as a team, in a pvp setting that is designed for teamwork?
I personally play solo or in groups that are up to 4-6 people, and enjoy farming zergs. But that doesnt mean everyone else has to play like me.
Some people love to zerg the map; or run in large coordinated ball group. Those groups are usually the ones to actually win the campaign. As much as I dont care about points or the campaign, I cant knock people for actually wanting to win.2 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally, I think we need a campaign that is completely solo. There would be no means of grouping. While we are at it, make that campaign a free-for-all to prevent grouping by the alliance.
Anyone is a target. There would be no ball groups.
Except then people will just run in a big group of people exactly like we see now when randoms follow ball groups. They will just rely on their eyes to run as a ball group instead of the map and group icons. I honestly don't think teamwork should be punished, it should in fact be encouraged.
Cyrodiil is supposed to be large scale nation state combat, and history shows us that armies that coordinate and work together do better just like we see in Cyrodiil.1 -
SpacemanSpiff1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ball groups are the high-end trial groups of pvp. zos didn't make them. they're the well-coordinated min/maxers of cyrodiil.Edited by SpacemanSpiff1 on July 15, 2022 12:35PM3 -
Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo✭✭✭✭✭
✭This subject feels like ground hog day.
I think we've been speaking about this as long as this version of Nirn was created
Yes, the game can't handle it.0 -
Four_Fingers✭✭✭✭✭
✭The game can't handle large groups at world boss either. (titanclaw)
Edited by Four_Fingers on July 15, 2022 1:14PM2
