2K hours, found out what LA weaving is today.

Chadwick · July 2022

Vhozek wrote: »

You can also try a controller with digital trigger and bumper. That way you can just squeeze your index and middle finger together on top of the gap between both buttons, and then LA weave with basically no effort. I have carpal tunnel and tendonitis from being a field worker and playing super smash bros Melee and digital trigger buttons are better for your hands.

Vhozek wrote: »

LA weaving is absolutely necessary for me to enjoy this game. ABSOLUTELY.
I give this game a try every time they release a new big update and every time, every single time, without fail, I end up constantly dropping my head after about 30 minutes because I'm falling asleep. I HAVE to weave as fast as I possibly can in order to stay awake. I'm sorry but it's so boring and I have fallen asleep in the past like an old man ONLY to this game. It's so weird man, why would you guys make it even worse?
I can't even enjoy questing, I'm freaking spitting ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ's all the time while my fingers play the game on their own.

[snip]

I have carpal tunnel and know many people who do. If you did, you would not be able to " weave as fast as I possibly can in order to stay awake" that is the definition of what causes carpal tunnel and tendon strain, it's asking for inflammation. When I LA weave and animate cancel for an hour my index finger and thumb swell up. I don't believe you for one second.

-- The blog post stated clearly that they are not getting rid of LA Weave, you will still have an advantage by doing it. [snip]

[snip]

-- It is the repetitive act of LA weave that causes my fingers to swell up and it is that action which I and other people find super boring. So, maybe other people don't want to fall asleep doing the same rhythm over and over again.

-- Lastly, the phrase "we’ve come to embrace" which is used in the blog post is synonymous with "we’ve come to accept" or "we’ve come around to". In each of these phrases, the use implies that the original intent or expectation was different. People need to stop implying that this was an intended and deliberate mechanic from the beginning. It is and always was an unintended conflict of mechanics. You even stated as much in your original post, it was discovered that blocking and bar swapping canceled the animation that you could not otherwise cancel....

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Vhozek · July 2022

Chadwick wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

You can also try a controller with digital trigger and bumper. That way you can just squeeze your index and middle finger together on top of the gap between both buttons, and then LA weave with basically no effort. I have carpal tunnel and tendonitis from being a field worker and playing super smash bros Melee and digital trigger buttons are better for your hands.

Vhozek wrote: »

LA weaving is absolutely necessary for me to enjoy this game. ABSOLUTELY.
I give this game a try every time they release a new big update and every time, every single time, without fail, I end up constantly dropping my head after about 30 minutes because I'm falling asleep. I HAVE to weave as fast as I possibly can in order to stay awake. I'm sorry but it's so boring and I have fallen asleep in the past like an old man ONLY to this game. It's so weird man, why would you guys make it even worse?
I can't even enjoy questing, I'm freaking spitting ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ's all the time while my fingers play the game on their own.

[snip]

I have carpal tunnel and know many people who do. If you did, you would not be able to " weave as fast as I possibly can in order to stay awake" that is the definition of what causes carpal tunnel and tendon strain, it's asking for inflammation. When I LA weave and animate cancel for an hour my index finger and thumb swell up. I don't believe you for one second.

-- The blog post stated clearly that they are not getting rid of LA Weave, you will still have an advantage by doing it. Stop your gaslighting and exaggerating.

[snip]

-- It is the repetitive act of LA weave that causes my fingers to swell up and it is that action which I and other people find super boring. So, maybe other people don't want to fall asleep doing the same rhythm over and over again.

-- Lastly, the phrase "we’ve come to embrace" which is used in the blog post is synonymous with "we’ve come to accept" or "we’ve come around to". In each of these phrases, the use implies that the original intent or expectation was different. People need to stop implying that this was an intended and deliberate mechanic from the beginning. It is and always was an unintended conflict of mechanics. You even stated as much in your original post, it was discovered that blocking and bar swapping canceled the animation that you could not otherwise cancel....

[snip]

Bro, I've been playing SSBM for like 12 years. My hands are in absolute shambles. Anyone that play SSBM can confirm for me that the game destroys your hands. Some players get hand surgeries and many quit due to hand pains. One player, Hax$, is known for absolutely shredding his cartilage to the point his bones were rubbing against each other. I still play anyways and I still LA weave in ESO as fast as I can anyways. You eventually learn how to grip things in different ways to mitigate the pain. Relaxed gripping, constant massaging, and hand warming go a long way.

Oh and removing and/or nerfing something like LA weave only hurts players ALREADY in the game. It also will make the game even more boring for me who relies on this technique to not drop the game and play something else because I'm falling asleep. Again, I've played SSBM for a long time and I've seen what it does to a game's community when you remove techniques like these. You see it all over in fighting games really.

I know ESO is not a fighting game but the people that rely on weaving to have fun in the game will be questioning their decision to keep playing the game. We've seen this already and the push for the nerfing of mechanics only shows the lack of understanding from ZoS.

I've been watching people dueling ingame and some PvP videos and it looks like Light Attack Weaving is as crucial to ESO players as Wavedash is to SSBM. I cannot imagine this mechanic being nerfed or going away. It is absolutely depressing to even think about it from my perspective of SSBM.

[edited to remove quote]

eovogtb16_ESO · July 2022

CaptainVenom wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

People shouldn't be 'required' to do LA weaving... period.

Most people forget no everyone got a nice 40ms latency to easily weave. In fact I think only a minority of players live in the US near the NA servers.

Try weaving from SA or even Oceania (where latency will be present due to distance and not even the best connection could do something about it), and people maybe will understand your statement.

Some of the highest DPS player in the game plays with a consistent 300-400 ping.

Lapin_Logic · July 2022

danno8 wrote: »

This is wrong according to the Update 35 combat preview post.

No where did Gilliam say that skills are getting a buff

... he mentions is that classes will be looked at to ensure they all are balanced in their damage output

Well given that in 35 updates "end game" DPS has climbed steadily and since you mention in the article that "balanced in their Damage output" and they are decreasing LA damage and DoT damage there are only 2 logical conclusions.

"Buffs" that are getting longer duration (hence fitting in more spammables in a rotation) could be increasing in potency or.

"Spammables" are increasing in damage alongside having increased time to execute them.

Makes more sence that for a new player being corralled into thinking "my LA does almost as much damage as uppercut and costs no stamina, LA must be the way I maximise damage"
That they should instead be taught from organic gameplay that " this mudcrab takes ages to kill with a LA, but i can Uppercut it once and heavy once to kill it and return my stamina"

Lapin_Logic · July 2022

Vhozek wrote: »

You can also try a controller with digital trigger and bumper.

Any controller recomendations specifically?

Jeirno · July 2022

JMadFour wrote: »

This entire thread is cap.

None of you "just discovered LA weaving today after 600 million bajillion hours playing".

[snip]

*Edit* I've always known what LA weaving is, and I do it. It's a stupid bug-turned-"mechanic" because ZOS never figured out how to fix it. it makes your character look like it is having a seizure, and it doesn't bother me if ZOS makes it less important than it is. I don't like it to begin with, the only reason I do it is because I have to.

LA weaving was never a bug, animation cancelling was a bug that turned to a mechanic, and just so happens that the best way to cancel animations is to LA weave, but weave was always intentional, it cancelling animations however wasnt.

[edited to remove quote]

Chadwick · July 2022

Vhozek wrote: »

I don't PvP, I rarely PvE past normal dungeons. I'm super casual and typically spam threads about how overland mobs need to be buffed.
I'm sorry but who is ZoS catering to? Who are these people below even my skill gap?

Vhozek wrote: »

Oh and removing and/or nerfing something like LA weave only hurts players ALREADY in the game. It also will make the game even more boring for me who relies on this technique

Bro, They NEVER said they were removing LA Weaving. You can still play that way and it WILL STILL benefit you.

You claim you are a casual player that just learned about what this was yesterday. If that is true, then why are you so wound up about this. IT IS NOT GOING AWAY. what do you not get about that?

If you are a casual player that does not play PvP or Veteran content then you are unaffected by the proposed changed. I can solo veteran base-game dungeons without animation cancelling and obsessing over LA weaving. you probably wont notice a damn thing.

You are acting like you have something to lose, the only thing that anyone will lose at the end of these changes it that they might only be doing 90k dps above the average player rather than 100k dps above average. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

francesinhalover · July 2022

Vhozek wrote: »

I didn't look much into it just saw someone explain it real quick in a video. So you light attack and you can cancel the whole animation with another action, typically a skill while the damage still goes through? Because I've been doing this since my very first day playing this game and never once did I look up what LA weaving is. All I did to discover it for myself is left click then right click quickly after, cancelling the animation with shield. I figured this would be good for cancelling your attack to protect yourself instead when you messed up and then found out the damage still went through so I started doing it with skills. I've been LA weaving for 2k+ hours without knowing what it was and I got it down to as fast as possible just by trying to simply do it faster. I don't PvP, I rarely PvE past normal dungeons. I'm super casual and typically spam threads about how overland mobs need to be buffed.
I'm sorry but who is ZoS catering to? Who are these people below even my skill gap?

They made the game dps rise a lot and now want to nerf everyone.
The issue casuals have are the insta kill mechanics everywhere that kill all endgame content, not light attack weaving.
What this does is punish players for investing becoming good, Now ppl that were struggling to get 100k to even join raids won't even do those 100k anymore, harponers and cp nerfs weren't enough i guess.

I'm sorry pro players can clear stuff fast, but for the rest of the playerbase those 130k dps HELP a lot when you fail vmol 20times , instead of wasting 4h your waste only 3 and a half, awesome right?

Bobby_V_Rockit · July 2022

Wait, I’m getting nerfed again? Dangit!

- Sincerely, one of the players below your skill gap

Agenericname · July 2022

Chadwick wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

I don't PvP, I rarely PvE past normal dungeons. I'm super casual and typically spam threads about how overland mobs need to be buffed.
I'm sorry but who is ZoS catering to? Who are these people below even my skill gap?

Vhozek wrote: »

Oh and removing and/or nerfing something like LA weave only hurts players ALREADY in the game. It also will make the game even more boring for me who relies on this technique

Bro, They NEVER said they were removing LA Weaving. You can still play that way and it WILL STILL benefit you.

You claim you are a casual player that just learned about what this was yesterday. If that is true, then why are you so wound up about this. IT IS NOT GOING AWAY. what do you not get about that?

If you are a casual player that does not play PvP or Veteran content then you are unaffected by the proposed changed. I can solo veteran base-game dungeons without animation cancelling and obsessing over LA weaving. you probably wont notice a damn thing.

You are acting like you have something to lose, the only thing that anyone will lose at the end of these changes it that they might only be doing 90k dps above the average player rather than 100k dps above average. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

I believe you in that you can do that without weaving light attacks. I dont believe that you can without animation canceling.

As far as I know, theres no way to stop animation canceling like there is weaving light attacks. Its something that happens so frequently I doubt most people even realize theyre doing it.

Lapin_Logic · July 2022

Vhozek wrote: »

JUST INCREASE THE DAMN OVERLAND DIFFICULTY ALREADY!!!

There is an option to increase overland difficulty in the game already.

All you need to do is open up the menu, go over to "Inventory" and where your gear is, Take all that off and equip a Level 1 weapon then head into the CP system and remove all those, then to make it a bit like Dark Souls put all your potions and soul gems in the bank, and for the True Dark souls feel Hold Alt then swiftly and mightily press F4 and boot up Dark Souls.

I'm not sure why your shouting increase Overland difficulty but you also don't want them to remove 8% overall Damage

Varana · July 2022

Jeirno wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

This entire thread is cap.

None of you "just discovered LA weaving today after 600 million bajillion hours playing".

[snip]

*Edit* I've always known what LA weaving is, and I do it. It's a stupid bug-turned-"mechanic" because ZOS never figured out how to fix it. it makes your character look like it is having a seizure, and it doesn't bother me if ZOS makes it less important than it is. I don't like it to begin with, the only reason I do it is because I have to.

LA weaving was never a bug, animation cancelling was a bug that turned to a mechanic, and just so happens that the best way to cancel animations is to LA weave, but weave was always intentional, it cancelling animations however wasnt.

[edited to remove quote]

And neither was animation cancelling a bug. It happens all the time even if you don't consciously try to do it. Blocking, roll-dodging, bashing, or barswapping, rely on animation cancelling being in the game. They cannot achieve their goal of fast-paced, reactive combat without it. Most attacks have animations that take a bit of time but are calculated instantly. But there are priority actions that need to be executed immediately - meaning they end the previous animation. That is by design.
The application of this to increase damage potential by perfecting the rotation including cancelling certain animations, was not exactly intended. But then, players finding new ways not specifically intended by the developers, is a good thing.

joseayalac · July 2022

Please ZOS don't go through with it.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · July 2022

TBH zos has no clue on what they're doing, this isn't gonna close the gap at all, may even make it wider tbh, to me(some may disagree) and thats fine but weaving is not animation cancelling, there is a cooldown between skills and if you hit a LA between them that is not cancelling anything, cancelling is when you barswap right after a skill or using block to cancel which on console you never see ppl block cancelling. The changes in coming update is just bad feedback and will result in nothing because the ppl that complain about not being able to weave will still not be able to weave so whats the point? If ppl that cannot do end game content now, how is lowering the damage for ppl that learned or practiced how to weave gonna help them get better at it?[/quote]

thats just factually wrong, many animations are longer than the skill and light attack( or block or roll) will cancel the excess.

barney2525 · July 2022

Vhozek wrote: »

JUST INCREASE THE DAMN OVERLAND DIFFICULTY ALREADY!!!

WHY?

Why waste all that effort ?

I used to take the view that Overland is NOT designed to be THE Challenge of the game. Its supposed to be Flavor for the immersion as you travel to whatever your current goal is.

But after watching players and how they interact with the environment - There is Literally No Point in changing the Overland difficulty. Everyone simply RUNS AWAY. It doesn't matter that the opponents are weak. Its Run Away! Run Away! Run Away!

It doesn't matter if Overland is all sleeping Orcs or all World Bosses.

No one is going to stay and fight them.

Vhozek · July 2022

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

You can also try a controller with digital trigger and bumper.

Any controller recomendations specifically?

I don't know, sorry. Just look up some reviews I guess until you find one that's considered the best. I don't know many controller brands, I just know that digital inputs help with hand problems.

Vhozek · July 2022

Chadwick wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

I don't PvP, I rarely PvE past normal dungeons. I'm super casual and typically spam threads about how overland mobs need to be buffed.
I'm sorry but who is ZoS catering to? Who are these people below even my skill gap?

Vhozek wrote: »

Oh and removing and/or nerfing something like LA weave only hurts players ALREADY in the game. It also will make the game even more boring for me who relies on this technique

Bro, They NEVER said they were removing LA Weaving. You can still play that way and it WILL STILL benefit you.

You claim you are a casual player that just learned about what this was yesterday. If that is true, then why are you so wound up about this. IT IS NOT GOING AWAY. what do you not get about that?

If you are a casual player that does not play PvP or Veteran content then you are unaffected by the proposed changed. I can solo veteran base-game dungeons without animation cancelling and obsessing over LA weaving. you probably wont notice a damn thing.

You are acting like you have something to lose, the only thing that anyone will lose at the end of these changes it that they might only be doing 90k dps above the average player rather than 100k dps above average. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Imagine you pick up a game for the first time, you find an exploit or technique that you begin to use every single day, you keep playing the game and this technique is obviously fun, you never give it a name or even look up its existence, you check the forums one day and everyone is complaining about how something in the game is being either removed or nerfed to not work the same way. You do some digging and find out said thing is the technique you've been playing with this whole time and turns out everyone was doing it because it was just normal. This is exactly my scenario and it happened to me before in Battlefield 3 when they removed prone dashing except that was actually a bug that was only around for a few patches but the game felt wrong without it and sort of did shine a light as to how lame boots on ground movement is because this technique was super useful for getting away from vehicles as someone playing on foot.

I am affected by the change because I use it all the time. It is my thing to do in the game when I play, I just very quickly dps through mobs with it. I could post a screenshot if you want of the content I've done. Don't you get like certain busts you can link in chat when you finish content? I can show you just how little of them I have and I'm gonna tell you right now, I got the last one like 4 or 5 years ago. I've legit been doing nothing but normal dungeons, delves, and quests since then although I also haven't played that much because I hate how the world is so unaware of how easy and braindead it is.
It messes with my immersion when I play the game with the mindset that I'm going to do some progress and then I remember the obstacles towards that progress are so easy that the progress can just be made itself so my character has no purpose in the game world and I narrow the game down to just what gives me the most exp or gold. Then I delete my characters and start all over again because unlocking skills is sort of a better goal than whatever you get from doing content and I'm not talking about the game rewards. I figured I can create stun lock builds and sort of give my character the purpose to annoy other players in Battlegrounds though so that's working out for some of my characters.

Vhozek · July 2022

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

JUST INCREASE THE DAMN OVERLAND DIFFICULTY ALREADY!!!

There is an option to increase overland difficulty in the game already.

All you need to do is open up the menu, go over to "Inventory" and where your gear is, Take all that off and equip a Level 1 weapon then head into the CP system and remove all those, then to make it a bit like Dark Souls put all your potions and soul gems in the bank, and for the True Dark souls feel Hold Alt then swiftly and mightily press F4 and boot up Dark Souls.

I'm not sure why your shouting increase Overland difficulty but you also don't want them to remove 8% overall Damage

That doesn't work. I've done it. I've tried many many MANY things. I've created countless threads on the subject and my efforts on trying to make the game harder for myself. I've tried to roleplay so seriously that I can't jump off a small hill or I'll break my ankle or I can't cross a river by swimming or else my gear is wet and I have to wear different gear while this one dries up. And no, I don't want the game to have survival mechanics and all that sort of stuff but I've made the game so inconvenient for myself in the effort to add some depth to it that it got very ridiculous.
No, it doesn't work. Mobs still attack me once every 10 seconds for 1 damage while I can mindlessly spam at them and when I slow it down I just fall asleep faster than when I'm spamming hit boxes. I don't mean to bring another game into the conversation but have you seen New World mobs? That's what I want. I wanna duel mobs and I want them to kick my butt.

Vhozek · July 2022

barney2525 wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

JUST INCREASE THE DAMN OVERLAND DIFFICULTY ALREADY!!!

WHY?

Why waste all that effort ?

I used to take the view that Overland is NOT designed to be THE Challenge of the game. Its supposed to be Flavor for the immersion as you travel to whatever your current goal is.

But after watching players and how they interact with the environment - There is Literally No Point in changing the Overland difficulty. Everyone simply RUNS AWAY. It doesn't matter that the opponents are weak. Its Run Away! Run Away! Run Away!

It doesn't matter if Overland is all sleeping Orcs or all World Bosses.

No one is going to stay and fight them.

I'm sorry but it's not immersive. It's just not. Sure, you can walk around in first person and get immersed into the environment but when a bear shows up and dies like a fly, that's absolutely DOG water and not immersive.