after reading combat update I think im at my breaking point U35

TheHeroCat · July 2022

Sweeping changes
Sweeping changes
Sweeping changes.

there was a whole slew of videos last time you made sweeping changes of people saying they're tired of sweeping changes.

but here we are more sweeping changes.

I have never played a game where they change stuff at a fundamental level this much.

its so hard to teach people stuff if theres constant changes.

I dont like the constant re hauling of basic things like weaving light and heavy attacks.

and trust me, im not the best player on this game, not even close. I play a freakin' bow dk in battlegrounds and a frost only build in pve (that should say enough).

if people are struggling to keep buffs up; that's a skill issue.

if people are struggling to weave attacks; that's a skill issue.

and if your having this skill issue (which I drop my buffs 60% of the time and i weave like 70% of the time too)

that's okay!

in fighting games, we call this the journey. losing 1v1s over and over? that's the journey. get up and try again. didn't pass a heal or a dps check. its cool; not the end of the world. revive and go again

Now im down for making this game more accessible. more people playing it? awesome! but this overkill.

and guys really, i dont like being negative. i really dont. But i want the best for the game that has so much potential. kinda a rant had to get it off my chest

Jaimeh · July 2022

Bad move for the next update, imo, after all the issues with the High Isle release. Instead of focusing on performance--the one factor that's crucially important for the longevity and health of the game--fixing all the long standing bugs and glitches, improving their quality control (especially for crown store items) that's lacking , improving their content's quality/writing/dialogues, and so on, they are instead making big changes in combat again. It's like they are actively trying to alienate their vet playerbase. I don't have ESO+ anymore so at least if things catch fire I won't be paying for it, but I'm really disappointed with their combat decisions.

DigiAngel · July 2022

Ya I'm curious to see how much dps is lost after the patch...will have to re-parse and see.

Stx · July 2022

It feels like the combat system gets an overhaul every year. I'm sick of it.

Please just add new skill trees! This game has a depressingly low amount of skills to choose from.

Klingenlied · July 2022

Uhm, we are discussing changes that have not happened? xD

I think ESO combat is bad. It is the ugliest out of all MMORPG's. There is no real feedback when I do use my skills. "Skill" in the community is described as "weaving". But what does this mean in regards to skill? Why do people say there is a huge skill gap? It is easy actually. ESO has a rather high skill per second ceiling. It is way faster then most other MMORPG's where you are fine with an input every 1,5 seconds. In ESO, depending on the way you cancel, you might input up to 5 button presses a second. Thats quiet the amount and actually something a lot of players are physically unable to do. Not that you need to .. but that is besides the point. The game is pretty demanding in inputs from the player and despite widening the skill gap so a few players can be happy to call them "elite", it doesn't do anything good.

A good combat systems feels good. Plays good. Is complex. Provides a skill gap that isn't "sharp" in a sense that it will just leave behind a portion of the playerbase. ESO has all those problems. Doesn't make it a bad game. Just one that can very, very strongly be improved.

Alchimiste1 · July 2022

Klingenlied wrote: »

Uhm, we are discussing changes that have not happened? xD

I think ESO combat is bad. It is the ugliest out of all MMORPG's. There is no real feedback when I do use my skills. "Skill" in the community is described as "weaving". But what does this mean in regards to skill? Why do people say there is a huge skill gap? It is easy actually. ESO has a rather high skill per second ceiling. It is way faster then most other MMORPG's where you are fine with an input every 1,5 seconds. In ESO, depending on the way you cancel, you might input up to 5 button presses a second. Thats quiet the amount and actually something a lot of players are physically unable to do. Not that you need to .. but that is besides the point. The game is pretty demanding in inputs from the player and despite widening the skill gap so a few players can be happy to call them "elite", it doesn't do anything good.

A good combat systems feels good. Plays good. Is complex. Provides a skill gap that isn't "sharp" in a sense that it will just leave behind a portion of the playerbase. ESO has all those problems. Doesn't make it a bad game. Just one that can very, very strongly be improved.

You don't know what you are talking about. Eso does not have a high APM mechanics ceiling, if it did, I'd be bad at this game. At most you are going to press 3 abilities*(and only if you count light attack and bash as abilities). If you did light attack and bash on everything you would have 180 APM which already honestly isn't that high. But then you learn that hey, people don't bash weave everything, in fact the vast majority don't bash weave at all (for pve you'll get like an extra 1-2k dps) so really its more like 120 APM but again that assumes you have perfect weaving. Realistically a solid light attack ratio probably is around 0.80 for most people. That means the APM would be 120*0.8 = 96 APM. 96 Is not even remotely high when compared to other games lol

Wuuffyy · July 2022

I want to put this out as much as I can. Killing off your veteran community with sweeping changes directed at only them w 0 compensation is probably a bad idea.

StarOfElyon · July 2022

Stx wrote: »

It feels like the combat system gets an overhaul every year. I'm sick of it.

Please just add new skill trees! This game has a depressingly low amount of skills to choose from.

I agree. These changes feel unnecessary.

fred4 · July 2022

TheHeroCat wrote: »

its so hard to teach people stuff if theres constant changes.

This is an excellent point. ZOS' constant changes undermine their goal of narrowing the skill gap, because only players with a lot of time can keep up with the constant changes. I wouldn't be at all surprised if new players running around in old builds with ineffective playstyles they learnt from an out-of-date YouTube video is part of the problem. Not that I necessarily accept there is a problem. There is sooo much easy content. I think it's fair there should be some, at least some, where you have to work hard for it and feel you've actually accomplished something in the end.

SkadiMZ · July 2022

Klingenlied wrote: »

Uhm, we are discussing changes that have not happened? xD

I think ESO combat is bad. It is the ugliest out of all MMORPG's. There is no real feedback when I do use my skills. "Skill" in the community is described as "weaving". But what does this mean in regards to skill? Why do people say there is a huge skill gap? It is easy actually. ESO has a rather high skill per second ceiling. It is way faster then most other MMORPG's where you are fine with an input every 1,5 seconds. In ESO, depending on the way you cancel, you might input up to 5 button presses a second. Thats quiet the amount and actually something a lot of players are physically unable to do. Not that you need to .. but that is besides the point. The game is pretty demanding in inputs from the player and despite widening the skill gap so a few players can be happy to call them "elite", it doesn't do anything good.

A good combat systems feels good. Plays good. Is complex. Provides a skill gap that isn't "sharp" in a sense that it will just leave behind a portion of the playerbase. ESO has all those problems. Doesn't make it a bad game. Just one that can very, very strongly be improved.

There's a global cooldown of 1 skill per second. Add a light attack, 2 buttons per second. You can press 5 buttons if you want... I guess, but most of those aren't registering because, again, a 1 second global skill cooldown.

ShadowProc · July 2022

They are lowering the damage. Not changing the fundamental part of this game. The sky isn’t falling gatekeepers.

Living_Tribunal · July 2022

Because I can't do it I want everyone who can to get screwed. -n00bs prob

ShadowProc · July 2022

Living_Tribunal wrote: »

Because I can't do it I want everyone who can to get screwed. -n00bs prob

How exactly are you screwed? It is still higher dps numbers.

Living_Tribunal · July 2022

Doesn't matter to me. Im not very good at it and if I don't have to work on it to get high dps...then I'll be removing several unnecessary add-ons. Woot.

Mrtoobyy · July 2022

Imagine if they would fix lagg and did a major overhaul on animations. Like the horse mounts sprinting at full speed!? Almost every weapon animation even in 1st person.
Go back to the launch trailer of this game and watch alot of the animations how fluid they were compared today.

Like I said in another thread. As it seems they are dumbing everything down they can just remove Light attack weaving totally. That will leave room for new fresh NON spasmic/clipping animations that would sync with their sounds. AND it would probably create room for new type of abilites since they won't have to take weaving into account.

Leave the game as it is for one freaking time ZOS and not fiddle with small stuff. IF you are going to continue this way wich it seems just rework EVERYTHING from the ground. That way we ALL start fresh

etchedpixels · July 2022

U33 and U34 they screwed up big time with the balancing the "hybrid" changes so you can do 140K when not so long as ago 100K was the ceiling (and not so long before that 90K was considered the top edge). Taking some of that away has to happen to undo the accidental power jump they created.

I'm not sure the proposed change is remotely adequate, or the right approach. However I'm quite sure that going from 70K in U32 to 100K in U34 back to 80K next update is hardly going to break anyone.

acastanza_ESO · July 2022

etchedpixels wrote: »

U33 and U34 they screwed up big time with the balancing the "hybrid" changes so you can do 140K when not so long as ago 100K was the ceiling (and not so long before that 90K was considered the top edge). Taking some of that away has to happen to undo the accidental power jump they created.

I'm not sure the proposed change is remotely adequate, or the right approach. However I'm quite sure that going from 70K in U32 to 100K in U34 back to 80K next update is hardly going to break anyone.

Honestly, it's clear that the real problem is hybridization and that the fundamental violation of the prior core game principles that it represents. It was poorly thought out and executed worse. It needs to be walked back.

exeeter702 · July 2022

TheHeroCat wrote: »

Sweeping changes
Sweeping changes
Sweeping changes.

there was a whole slew of videos last time you made sweeping changes of people saying they're tired of sweeping changes.

but here we are more sweeping changes.

I have never played a game where they change stuff at a fundamental level this much.

its so hard to teach people stuff if theres constant changes.

I dont like the constant re hauling of basic things like weaving light and heavy attacks.

and trust me, im not the best player on this game, not even close. I play a freakin' bow dk in battlegrounds and a frost only build in pve (that should say enough).

if people are struggling to keep buffs up; that's a skill issue.

if people are struggling to weave attacks; that's a skill issue.

and if your having this skill issue (which I drop my buffs 60% of the time and i weave like 70% of the time too)

that's okay!

in fighting games, we call this the journey. losing 1v1s over and over? that's the journey. get up and try again. didn't pass a heal or a dps check. its cool; not the end of the world. revive and go again

Now im down for making this game more accessible. more people playing it? awesome! but this overkill.

and guys really, i dont like being negative. i really dont. But i want the best for the game that has so much potential. kinda a rant had to get it off my chest

And mmo players tend to be the biggest lab monsters of amy genre. XD

DrSlaughtr · July 2022

From my perspective, most people who are really good at weaving don't have better Internet or are closer to the server farms. They've learned how to line up their inputs to get everything to fire properly.

Likewise, quite a few people who aren't great at weaving are probably not doing a very good job at figuring out the window for the LA based on what that are seeing on their end.

It would be cool if they included an in game server side metronome during a combat tutorial.