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Please don't forget to update content with weaving changes
FeedbackOnly
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Some speed runs and no deaths in game required weaving and DPS it brought.
This includes trials and dungeons
Edited by FeedbackOnly on July 8, 2022 11:17AM This includes trials and dungeons
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FeedbackOnly wrote: »Some speed runs and no deaths in game required weaving...
Literally none require weaving. Weaving makes it a lot easier and more accessible, but there isn't a single no death in the game that can't be obtained with some very shoddy weaving.
Same goes for speed runs. You wouldn't want to do a speed run without weaving, but it is technically possible.4 -
eovogtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »Some speed runs and no deaths in game required weaving...
Literally none require weaving. Weaving makes it a lot easier and more accessible, but there isn't a single no death in the game that can't be obtained with some very shoddy weaving.
Same goes for speed runs. You wouldn't want to do a speed run without weaving, but it is technically possible.
Have fun killing xalkavva HM losing 10-20% of your DPS!7 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »Some speed runs and no deaths in game required weaving...
Literally none require weaving. Weaving makes it a lot easier and more accessible, but there isn't a single no death in the game that can't be obtained with some very shoddy weaving.
Same goes for speed runs. You wouldn't want to do a speed run without weaving, but it is technically possible.
This is very misleading. Not everyone is a top-tier hardcore raider. Plenty of groups struggle to do speed runs of stuff and dropping their DPS is a big deal.
New content is also balanced around what the current DPS is.
Ex. Xalvakka HM has triple the health compared to Rakkhat HM, and tougher DPS checks.
If our damage goes down this mainly serves to hurt progression groups. How demotivating is it progging a trial, a new patch drops, and now the group can’t clear what they used to?
It’s so exhausting how the combat team can never get it right. New controversial massive swinging changes every year.7 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »Some speed runs and no deaths in game required weaving...
Literally none require weaving. Weaving makes it a lot easier and more accessible, but there isn't a single no death in the game that can't be obtained with some very shoddy weaving.
Same goes for speed runs. You wouldn't want to do a speed run without weaving, but it is technically possible.
Are we sure about this for things like vDSR tri? Wasn’t that margin about 1.5 minutes?2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »Some speed runs and no deaths in game required weaving...
Literally none require weaving. Weaving makes it a lot easier and more accessible, but there isn't a single no death in the game that can't be obtained with some very shoddy weaving.
Same goes for speed runs. You wouldn't want to do a speed run without weaving, but it is technically possible.
Are we sure about this for things like vDSR tri? Wasn’t that margin about 1.5 minutes?
I'm not sure about vDSR. I didn't think about that, and it might be the one exception. With life where it's at these days, I simply haven't gotten around to even looking at it.
I am sure about vSS HM. To be clear, trying to get that without weaving would genuinely suck, but, it should be possible with a high end group.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »Some speed runs and no deaths in game required weaving...
Literally none require weaving. Weaving makes it a lot easier and more accessible, but there isn't a single no death in the game that can't be obtained with some very shoddy weaving.
Same goes for speed runs. You wouldn't want to do a speed run without weaving, but it is technically possible.
This is very misleading. Not everyone is a top-tier hardcore raider. Plenty of groups struggle to do speed runs of stuff and dropping their DPS is a big deal.
I'd argue that it's mildly misleading.
However, remember, I'm responding to hyperbole that's saying, "this content will be impossible to complete (under these conditions) if this goes live," which is also untrue.New content is also balanced around what the current DPS is.
Ex. Xalvakka HM has triple the health compared to Rakkhat HM, and tougher DPS checks.
If our damage goes down this mainly serves to hurt progression groups. How demotivating is it progging a trial, a new patch drops, and now the group can’t clear what they used to?
It’s so exhausting how the combat team can never get it right. New controversial massive swinging changes every year.
Yeah, you don't have to remind me; I still remember the sustain nerf from Morrowind, and how that obliterated the existing endgame community. The prog guilds that were running before it hit vanished overnight, and it took years for the community to recover, only for it to get wiped out by another complete overhaul of combat. (I don't even remember what it was that time.)
The worst part is, I thought we were finally done with this. Ever since Wheeler has taken over as combat lead, combat has been completely reworked every single year, and in some cases multiple times a year. Exhausting is a good term for it. Hell, I remember saying as much, on the podcast, three years ago, and here we are again, with this continuing.
Like, everyone loved hating on Wrobel back when he was in charge, but at least there was some relative stability back then. Now, it's "relearn the game every six months."4 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »Some speed runs and no deaths in game required weaving...
Literally none require weaving. Weaving makes it a lot easier and more accessible, but there isn't a single no death in the game that can't be obtained with some very shoddy weaving.
Same goes for speed runs. You wouldn't want to do a speed run without weaving, but it is technically possible.
Are we sure about this for things like vDSR tri? Wasn’t that margin about 1.5 minutes?
I'm not sure about vDSR. I didn't think about that, and it might be the one exception. With life where it's at these days, I simply haven't gotten around to even looking at it.
I am sure about vSS HM. To be clear, trying to get that without weaving would genuinely suck, but, it should be possible with a high end group.
Very understandable. I’m still working on a last couple pre-DSR DLC HMs myself, but it feels demoralizing even theoretically for the devs to peg the latest trial to the “obscene” damage they enabled but clearly dislike and then try to claw back part of that damage immediately the next patch. It goes hand in hand with the whiplash you pointed out just above.1 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »Some speed runs and no deaths in game required weaving...
Literally none require weaving. Weaving makes it a lot easier and more accessible, but there isn't a single no death in the game that can't be obtained with some very shoddy weaving.
Same goes for speed runs. You wouldn't want to do a speed run without weaving, but it is technically possible.
Are we sure about this for things like vDSR tri? Wasn’t that margin about 1.5 minutes?
It was also literally the first time anyone did this. Groups will continue to run the trial, and get better at it. Remember the first Godslayers? But people got better, strategies improved, and so on.0 -
joseayalac✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't call it "weaving changes", weaving will stay and function exactly the same. The correct term for this would be "LA&HA nerfs".1 -
Galiferno✭✭✭✭✭eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »Some speed runs and no deaths in game required weaving...
Literally none require weaving. Weaving makes it a lot easier and more accessible, but there isn't a single no death in the game that can't be obtained with some very shoddy weaving.
Same goes for speed runs. You wouldn't want to do a speed run without weaving, but it is technically possible.
Have fun killing xalkavva HM losing 10-20% of your DPS!
Yeah Xalvakka HM is my main concern right now. My group isn't the tip top of DPS, but we managed to clear every HM(before vDSR came out) pretty quickly, even Bahsei HM didn't take us more than 3 weeks or so. So it came as a shock that the best we ever got to for Xalvakka HM was 2.5%, which was still 6-7mil health. So now that we're losing DPS next patch, how does this help groups like mine that can clear HMs without issues except for the one with the most severe DPS check?2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »FeedbackOnly wrote: »Some speed runs and no deaths in game required weaving...
Literally none require weaving. Weaving makes it a lot easier and more accessible, but there isn't a single no death in the game that can't be obtained with some very shoddy weaving.
Same goes for speed runs. You wouldn't want to do a speed run without weaving, but it is technically possible.
This is very misleading. Not everyone is a top-tier hardcore raider. Plenty of groups struggle to do speed runs of stuff and dropping their DPS is a big deal.
I'd argue that it's mildly misleading.
However, remember, I'm responding to hyperbole that's saying, "this content will be impossible to complete (under these conditions) if this goes live," which is also untrue.New content is also balanced around what the current DPS is.
Ex. Xalvakka HM has triple the health compared to Rakkhat HM, and tougher DPS checks.
If our damage goes down this mainly serves to hurt progression groups. How demotivating is it progging a trial, a new patch drops, and now the group can’t clear what they used to?
It’s so exhausting how the combat team can never get it right. New controversial massive swinging changes every year.
Yeah, you don't have to remind me; I still remember the sustain nerf from Morrowind, and how that obliterated the existing endgame community. The prog guilds that were running before it hit vanished overnight, and it took years for the community to recover, only for it to get wiped out by another complete overhaul of combat. (I don't even remember what it was that time.)
The worst part is, I thought we were finally done with this. Ever since Wheeler has taken over as combat lead, combat has been completely reworked every single year, and in some cases multiple times a year. Exhausting is a good term for it. Hell, I remember saying as much, on the podcast, three years ago, and here we are again, with this continuing.
Like, everyone loved hating on Wrobel back when he was in charge, but at least there was some relative stability back then. Now, it's "relearn the game every six months."
Oh I agree. And if this was not a TES game it would not have survived. Even with the free boost in popularity+great lore this game was forced to quickly drop its $15 mandatory sub.
They never seem to learn from their mistakes.4 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭joseayalac wrote: »Don't call it "weaving changes", weaving will stay and function exactly the same. The correct term for this would be "LA&HA nerfs".
Okay0