Reviving an old Elder Scrolls concept: Fame/infamy

Browiseth
Browiseth
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way back in the yesteryears of the elder scrolls, there was a system to track the player's renown in the world of tamriel. in morrowind, it was called reputation, and acted as a pretty binary and shallow number that went up as the player did quests and mostly just gave a disposition bonus with npcs. oblivion added a second layer to it with fame/infamy, with standard "heroic" deeds such as your average quest providing fame, while dark brotherhood or thieves guild antics provided infamy, and each type of reputation would earn the player more or less disposition with npcs depending on the npc's own factions or morality.

and then skyrim killed the mechanic entirely

and no npcs commenting on quests you've completed or skills you're proficient in doesn't count

so i suggest we bring back this mechanic in eso, but, in a little bit of a different form

Fame

- fame would primarily act as a tally of the number of non-repeatable quests the player has completed, with major story quests providing more fame than side quests, and would eventually cap at some reasonable value. (side quests provide 1 fame, major quests provide 2, caps out at 500?)
- as the player's fame level rises, they will see small benefits when in towns, such as reduced prices with npc merchants, being able to use their reputation to make guards look the other way while having a bounty, or even receiving free gifts from npcs when passing them by in towns, in the form of gold, soul gems, repair kits and so on
- would play an integral part of the new faction to coincide with the system, more on that further down!

Infamy
- Infamy would rise when the player commits heinous deeds, such as murder, being caught stealing, as well as completing dark brotherhood and thieves guild quests
- Infamy would not lower over time like bounty/heat does, instead requiring renown in order to work your way back into the good graces of tamriel's people (more on that further down)
- at high levels of infamy, npcs may run away from you just at the sight of you, merchants may refuse to deal with you, and guards may attack you on sight even without a bounty
- but, on the other hand, if you are able to speak to an npc, you can use your infamous reputation to intimidate them into giving you gold or minor items
- npcs of low moral fiber, such as criminals however, may be more inclined to gift you items out of respect for your nefarious deeds

Renown
- Renown would act as a sort of "temporary fame" that is easier and faster to acquire but dissipates over time.
- earned by defeating world bosses, completing dungeons and completing repeatable quests (crafting writs not included)
- in order to illustrate how this works, if we say the player currently has 200 fame and completes a dungeon, they would gain 20 renown, and could temporarily gain the benefits of having 20 fame*, but that renown would go away over time until the player is returned to their static fame value
- earning renown would also slightly lower the player's infamy, and would be the only way to do so

lastly, in order to coincide with this new system, a faction/service would be added named The Society of Tamrielic Citizens of High Renown, with merchants selling furnishings exclusive to those who reach certain fame, or even infamy levels.

*fame earned through renown would not be valid to gain access to the faction's merchant's stocks

ok thanks let me know what you think bye!!!!
Edited by Browiseth on July 4, 2022 10:26PM
skingrad when zoscharacters:
  • EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
  • EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
  • EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
  • EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
  • EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
  • EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
  • EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
  • EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
  • EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
  • EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe
  • bmnoble
    bmnoble
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    What about the folks who have done every non repeatable quest they could get their hands on already? Can't exactly use achievements anymore to track those things, would are mains be doomed to a life of obscurity.
  • TaSheen
    TaSheen
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    I've personally found this sort of micro-management unfun in the extreme - I've played every TES game from Arena through Skyrim, from their releases and for years thereafter so I'm well acquainted with this. I was absolutely thrilled that Skyrim ditched the mechanic.

    I wouldn't like it in ESO either. I actually don't care at all how anyone else in game thinks about my characters. This is a solo game for me (due to massive ping as well as personal preference) and something like this would cause me vast annoyance.
    ______________________________________________________

    "But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....
  • Hapexamendios
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    I think that's more of a single player game feature. I wouldn't want it in an online game. Besides it is way too late to implement it now. Too many people have cleared practically all the quests.
  • kargen27
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    I'm opposed to the idea in general because it would be just more things the server has to calculate as each player moves through towns.
    If it were put in place this bit would need changed. "- Infamy would rise when the player commits heinous deeds, such as murder, being caught stealing, as well as completing dark brotherhood and thieves guild quests"

    If you don't get caught why would infamy rise. If you complete a thieves guild or brotherhood quest you basically got away with the crime. The person commissioning the crime isn't going to rat you out so I'm thinking the only way to gain infamy is brag yourself or have a guard catch you.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Freelancer_ESO
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    I think that style of system can be interesting when the game is built around it but, I think it's too late in ESO's life for it to really work.


    You'd also run into the issue that some people want to be famous and some people really don't on both ends of the morality spectrum.

    ESO's story is kind of set up in such a way that pretty much everyone crosses a bunch of moral lines (However, the story also never really lets you follow the evil very far much of the time.)

    Even in universe it is occasionally acknowledged.

    This is how Naryu Virian views the player character if you complete all the content that involves her:
    I was in the tavern thinking it over when an old friend walked in, a darling murder-vagabond who'd helped me in the past. I beckoned, and my friend came sauntering over, glowing with a sly, smug confidence. When I saw the hilt of a Blade of Woe peeking out of the adventurer's cloak, I knew why: the adorable goof had joined the Dark Brotherhood. That moment, I realized my problems were solved. I just had to talk this killer-hobo into entering Castle Kvatch and letting me in the back way.

    And that's exactly how it worked out. No Black Sacrament required, either, since I was the one who killed the Hlaalu, right in his room. But it was hard to be appropriately grateful to my Brotherhood friend—for a failed assassination.

    I hadn't told my vagabond, but even as I was "Fileting the Trout," I knew my victim was too slow and too stupid to be the real Dathus Ildram; I'd been taken in by another body double. Simulacra … doubles … suddenly I saw that was the key to the whole thing. The Morag Tong was the original league of assassins, but after the Potentate Executions, the Tong had been eclipsed, and another league—a double—had risen in our place. The Dark Brotherhood, which now had Sanctuaries across Tamriel.

    The Seven Secretives' ambitions weren't confined to Morrowind—they wanted to extend their hand over the entire continent. How better than by co-opting the Dark Brotherhood, already in place and established in every province? That had to be Ildram's goal: to negotiate an alliance with the Brotherhood. And if it couldn't be done by alliance, then do it by hostile takeover. He was probably already in the local Sanctuary.

    So I just tailed their newest Brother, my cute vagabond, to their ugly black door.

    My friend entered, and I got comfortable nearby and pulled out my disguise kit. If we were going to play doubles, then doubles it would be. Eventually my vagabond emerged and walked off, not noticing that I ducked inside before the door closed—and looking, as much as possible, like my erstwhile companion. Inside, the Sanctuary was … pretty ghastly. I mean, just really tasteless, decorated like a teenaged Worm Cultist's idea of sinister. The Dark Brotherhood were like kids who'd found a dark cave and decided to play assassin.

    Source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Naryu's_Journal/Gold_Coast
    Edited by Freelancer_ESO on July 4, 2022 11:50PM
  • Nightowl_74
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    I wouldn't want that here, although it's fun sometimes in single player games where I can simply choose not to save my progress.
  • BretonMage
    BretonMage
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    That would be interesting if they found a way to make it work with existing characters.
    Inside, the Sanctuary was … pretty ghastly. I mean, just really tasteless, decorated like a teenaged Worm Cultist's idea of sinister. The Dark Brotherhood were like kids who'd found a dark cave and decided to play assassin.

    Source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Naryu's_Journal/Gold_Coast

    I'm liking Naryu more now, that was hilarious.
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