chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

BloodyStigmata wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

And we are constantly told that a central AH would drive up prices because some would corner the market. Right.

Until you can think of enough gold sinks to both make up the difference and surpass the amount of gold spent on trader bidding by guild leadership each week, a central marketplace will continue to be a bad idea.

What make you feel that is hard to do?

ZOS knows that amount of gold spent on Guild Traders per week as well as the bids. Just set the fees for the Central Market at a higher rate that the current sink of the traders.

Then people will skip it and just trade face-to-face.

You'd need to go BDO style central market and eliminate (direct) trading to accomplish that.

Amottica wrote: »

Also, OP is complaining because they could not find something but it could be that there are not many posted on their server. I am assuming they went to major trading hubs.

They said PC-EU in their first post. I went to the first kiosks I could find (since I call Vivec City my home anyway), right near a wayshrine (see previous post). There's plenty available. Either they looked for the wrong thing, only searched TTC for the absolute cheapest end and then complained they were already taken, or had some leftover search filter in some addon. Any of the three are possible and none of them would be solved via a central auction house.

Just looked in Deshaan. First kiosk I came to hard two Harmony rings and one Harmony necklace (crafted set, but not relevant):


Here's a better one. Located at Gals Fendyn's kiosk just 30 seconds ago.

Also something to bear in mind. I have no idea what addons the original poster is using. If they are using AwesomeGuildStore with PerfectPixel, for example, as I am in those screenshots, often a criteria (e.g. the Harmony icon) will not appear glowing.

Example:


You can see there is a trait selected because of the X icon to clear the criteria, but there's nothing showing as selected.

In order to get the icons to show properly when selected, you need to force a refresh by either unselecting the icon you know is selected, or by pressing the X, and reselecting the icon.



But again, to reiterate, this isn't a failing in the trading system. It either comes down to user error or addon error, or both, and in which case would be just as likely to happen with a more centralised trading/auction house system.

JKorr wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Why don't you just buy some of the trait mat Dibellium and get a crafter to make you a ring and necklace for research, most will do it for free if you provide the mats.

:shhhh: Don't bring logic and practicality into this. After all, some players are guild-phobic, don't want to ask for a crafter in zone chat, and look for more "reasons" to ask for an auction house. It apparently makes more sense to ask to disrupt the present system and make massive changes to the game instead of asking guildmates/random helpful players for help.

I don't normally reply to "crafter wanted" in zone chat, however someone asking for a trait item to research I will answer. I don't charge, but do ask for the trait mats for jewelry and nirnhoned items. I ask in my guilds if anyone needs research items every time I log in.

I didn't look for the trait mat last night, but I have found it equally hard to find in the past. That is why I named the thread "Another fail" because it was an additional fail, not the only one. I have faced this hunting gear for new level 50s/CP160 many time before as well, on both the PC and EU. Not the price, but even finding a listing!

I should use discord more, but I play on EU from Texas (often late night) so they have often rolled up the streets by then in my experience.

I am also in 5 trading guilds on EU and 4 trading ones (or at least they usually have a trader) (1 is a pure crafting guild on NA - no trader.)

I was in 5 with a trader (usually) on both NA and EU on the PS4 and faced the same problems. One even usually had a trader in Deshaan, which seems like a hub.

I am definitely not guild-phobic, so please retire that excuse. I just don't like going around to traders for a significant part of my gameplay time and then getting no results.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

bmnoble wrote: »

Why don't you just buy some of the trait mat Dibellium and get a crafter to make you a ring and necklace for research, most will do it for free if you provide the mats.

:shhhh: Don't bring logic and practicality into this. After all, some players are guild-phobic, don't want to ask for a crafter in zone chat, and look for more "reasons" to ask for an auction house. It apparently makes more sense to ask to disrupt the present system and make massive changes to the game instead of asking guildmates/random helpful players for help.

I don't normally reply to "crafter wanted" in zone chat, however someone asking for a trait item to research I will answer. I don't charge, but do ask for the trait mats for jewelry and nirnhoned items. I ask in my guilds if anyone needs research items every time I log in.

I didn't look for the trait mat last night, but I have found it equally hard to find in the past. That is why I named the thread "Another fail" because it was an additional fail, not the only one. I have faced this hunting gear for new level 50s/CP160 many time before as well, on both the PC and EU. Not the price, but even finding a listing!

I should use discord more, but I play on EU from Texas (often late night) so they have often rolled up the streets by then in my experience.

I am also in 5 trading guilds on EU and 4 trading ones (or at least they usually have a trader) (1 is a pure crafting guild on NA - no trader.)

I was in 5 with a trader (usually) on both NA and EU on the PS4 and faced the same problems. One even usually had a trader in Deshaan, which seems like a hub.

I am definitely not guild-phobic, so please retire that excuse. I just don't like going around to traders for a significant part of my gameplay time and then getting no results.

Just a suggestion; if you have a guild with crafters, ask them for help with research items. Even if you have to get the trait mat from a trader, it would be easier than finding a completed item. You can get the traits you want for the gear you want on your own schedule instead of rng drops or searching guild stores.

tmbrinks wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

BloodyStigmata wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

And we are constantly told that a central AH would drive up prices because some would corner the market. Right.

Until you can think of enough gold sinks to both make up the difference and surpass the amount of gold spent on trader bidding by guild leadership each week, a central marketplace will continue to be a bad idea.

What make you feel that is hard to do?

ZOS knows that amount of gold spent on Guild Traders per week as well as the bids. Just set the fees for the Central Market at a higher rate that the current sink of the traders.

Then people will skip it and just trade face-to-face.

You'd need to go BDO style central market and eliminate (direct) trading to accomplish that.

I believe it is highly unlikely that we'd jump from an economy where most goods are sold on Guild Traders to an economy where most goods are sold person to person by increasing the fee for trading and letting anyone sell on a Central Market.

For trading person to person to really take off, the amount of savings for both parties needs to be high enough to justify the hassle and I doubt at most price points for goods that will be the case.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

So I need a Harmony Ring to research my final JC spot.

I went through the first 2 pages on TTC (PC EU) by both low cost and recent listings. NONE of the guild vendors had the ring, even a couple that showed listing it less than 10 minutes prior.

And we are constantly told that a central AH would drive up prices because some would corner the market. Right.

Really frustrating and annoying that I blew the time I could have done my riding and daily crafting and could even find what I needed!

Tell me again how great the current system is! I guess I need a full time job to find something....

We can switch, but that probably won't solve your problem. Either the person took it down or it sold before you could get it. Exact same thing can happen in a GAH.

Also, TTC is only as reliable as the people that do the scanning. Data is not live.

The real problem with changing systems is that ZOS would have to spend the time, effort, and money to change the in game economy as well as design the servers to handle the traffic (the current servers don't have the capacity to handle it).

Not sure zos wants to commit to that.

GAH has its own list of pros and cons to it too.

Personally, I will make my gold in either system, I like guild trader one because it's different, but I can swap if that's what devs want to do. But it's not an easy switch to do, and a bad transition could ruin the games economy for a very long time.

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

BloodyStigmata wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

And we are constantly told that a central AH would drive up prices because some would corner the market. Right.

Until you can think of enough gold sinks to both make up the difference and surpass the amount of gold spent on trader bidding by guild leadership each week, a central marketplace will continue to be a bad idea.

What make you feel that is hard to do?

ZOS knows that amount of gold spent on Guild Traders per week as well as the bids. Just set the fees for the Central Market at a higher rate that the current sink of the traders.

It's more complicated that just doing that. The unknown is how many new people will get in on trading. Then you have to account for how to get the trade guilds to part with their war chests of gold. How do you handle that buying power? What happens to all of the player trade guilds? How do you handle the transition period? How do you balance the economy to account for the wealth distribution change? How to you account for the loss of the competive nature of the bidding? How do you allocate and account for increased trading traffic? Do you upgrade the servers? Or do you take resources from another area to account for it? Will you need to restrict addons? What UI elements need to change? How effective will searches be? How will you handle bots? Will you need to restrict trading in any way.... among a lot other questions.

There are no easy solutions and it's not as simple as flipping a switch, it never is.

I'd be careful if you use any add-ons (didn't see if you were on PC), sometimes I have to reset my search or even search with no filters to find something. I've gone to a trader with what I needed listed, like Dark Convergence for example, just showing that and it will work for a few, then suddenly not and when I clear it and just look through all the light gear, I'd see the piece I was looking for. Not sure if that's an add on issue (probably) or base game bug though.

Also, a central auction house wouldn't make people list stuff that wasn't getting listed anyway. Maybe you mean you wouldn't have to use TTC and just open up the auction house and see if its there or not, and you might have still seen none were there but saved yourself hassle of running around. That I can understand. TTC can be weird, stuff only gets on the site if someone has the add on installed and the background program running, so if I list something for example (I do not use it) it won't show up on site until someone else scans the store I listed it in. It could be someone at the guild doing it to get listings up, or it could be the person buying the item having the program running, which means it gets listed as soon as it's being bought and might not always update fast enough to un-list it.

I don't think anyone thinks the way guild traders are set up is convenient, but what it does do it remove hundreds of millions of gold from the economy every week. You think inflation is bad now, if that wasn't there gold would be worthless right now. I really don't think that enough players realize that tens of millions of gold go to bid for spots that aren't even in prime cities. And to accomplish the same amount of gold removal with an auction house would require a ridiculous tax penalty for sales where you would not see cheaper items getting listed at all. (You'd also remove huge communities/guilds of players that are in trade guilds and a lot of the stuff they do to generate interest like raffles and such that often help spread some of the wealth since well to do players usually donate items to be in raffles).

rpa wrote: »

Exemplary Harmony Ring should be about 1500, give or take few hundred. Search for that in TTC and you should find plenty pointers to those. And mind your filters when shopping.
AwesomeGuildStore is great but it's rather easy to forget some old pesky filter when searching for a thing from guild traders. But it's an user error. Which tends to happen far too often to me.

That is the norm, but I could not find any even more expensive.

Troodon80 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Also, OP is complaining because they could not find something but it could be that there are not many posted on their server. I am assuming they went to major trading hubs.

They said PC-EU in their first post. I went to the first kiosks I could find (since I call Vivec City my home anyway), right near a wayshrine (see previous post). There's plenty available. Either they looked for the wrong thing, only searched TTC for the absolute cheapest end and then complained they were already taken, or had some leftover search filter in some addon. Any of the three are possible and none of them would be solved via a central auction house.

Just looked in Deshaan. First kiosk I came to hard two Harmony rings and one Harmony necklace (crafted set, but not relevant):


Here's a better one. Located at Gals Fendyn's kiosk just 30 seconds ago.

I am not sure if I went to Deshawn then and I am not surprised they sold, but none of those rings are there.

This still illustrates the problem. It is impossible now to know what is listed NOW.

Please stop blaming the searcher. I use Awesome Guild Store as well. The only search trait is "Harmony" and I selected for the entire JC area, not just the Ring I needed.

I did find 1 ring listed in Vivec City at 300,000 gold, but I am not going to pay that much for a research item. (It was a purple, likely crafted, ring.)

xaraan wrote: »

I'd be careful if you use any add-ons (didn't see if you were on PC), sometimes I have to reset my search or even search with no filters to find something. I've gone to a trader with what I needed listed, like Dark Convergence for example, just showing that and it will work for a few, then suddenly not and when I clear it and just look through all the light gear, I'd see the piece I was looking for. Not sure if that's an add on issue (probably) or base game bug though.

Also, a central auction house wouldn't make people list stuff that wasn't getting listed anyway. Maybe you mean you wouldn't have to use TTC and just open up the auction house and see if its there or not, and you might have still seen none were there but saved yourself hassle of running around. That I can understand. TTC can be weird, stuff only gets on the site if someone has the add on installed and the background program running, so if I list something for example (I do not use it) it won't show up on site until someone else scans the store I listed it in. It could be someone at the guild doing it to get listings up, or it could be the person buying the item having the program running, which means it gets listed as soon as it's being bought and might not always update fast enough to un-list it.

I don't think anyone thinks the way guild traders are set up is convenient, but what it does do it remove hundreds of millions of gold from the economy every week. You think inflation is bad now, if that wasn't there gold would be worthless right now. I really don't think that enough players realize that tens of millions of gold go to bid for spots that aren't even in prime cities. And to accomplish the same amount of gold removal with an auction house would require a ridiculous tax penalty for sales where you would not see cheaper items getting listed at all. (You'd also remove huge communities/guilds of players that are in trade guilds and a lot of the stuff they do to generate interest like raffles and such that often help spread some of the wealth since well to do players usually donate items to be in raffles).

I seriously doubt no research-level (Or Exemplary) rings are listed in the entire world. I think I did mistakenly say I saw none, but saw the 300K ring I mentioned in this post, but that was listed for use, not research. (It would not need purple otherwise.)

xaraan wrote: »

I'd be careful if you use any add-ons (didn't see if you were on PC), sometimes I have to reset my search or even search with no filters to find something. I've gone to a trader with what I needed listed, like Dark Convergence for example, just showing that and it will work for a few, then suddenly not and when I clear it and just look through all the light gear, I'd see the piece I was looking for. Not sure if that's an add on issue (probably) or base game bug though.

Also, a central auction house wouldn't make people list stuff that wasn't getting listed anyway. Maybe you mean you wouldn't have to use TTC and just open up the auction house and see if its there or not, and you might have still seen none were there but saved yourself hassle of running around. That I can understand. TTC can be weird, stuff only gets on the site if someone has the add on installed and the background program running, so if I list something for example (I do not use it) it won't show up on site until someone else scans the store I listed it in. It could be someone at the guild doing it to get listings up, or it could be the person buying the item having the program running, which means it gets listed as soon as it's being bought and might not always update fast enough to un-list it.

I don't think anyone thinks the way guild traders are set up is convenient, but what it does do it remove hundreds of millions of gold from the economy every week. You think inflation is bad now, if that wasn't there gold would be worthless right now. I really don't think that enough players realize that tens of millions of gold go to bid for spots that aren't even in prime cities. And to accomplish the same amount of gold removal with an auction house would require a ridiculous tax penalty for sales where you would not see cheaper items getting listed at all. (You'd also remove huge communities/guilds of players that are in trade guilds and a lot of the stuff they do to generate interest like raffles and such that often help spread some of the wealth since well to do players usually donate items to be in raffles).

Again I would ask So? At least let me search all guild vendors from one location. Location would still be valuable and I would have to try for them, but I would get real-time data on ALL platforms. I think the system was a bad design overall, but I agree it is here, just let me search all the listing real-time. Some guilds might go for an out-of-the way location for their choice, but they can do that already.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

We can switch, but that probably won't solve your problem. Either the person took it down or it sold before you could get it. Exact same thing can happen in a GAH.

Yes it would. I would know if anything was listed and could buy or find it. I cannot do that now except by chance.

I am fairly convinced someone is piling up these rings for some reason as the prices for research items (including other areas) has risen significantly lately, not matter how much TTC claims otherwise.

But fine, the price goes up and some focus on flipping. Let me find it!

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I am not sure if I went to Deshawn then and I am not surprised they sold, but none of those rings are there.

This still illustrates the problem. It is impossible now to know what is listed NOW.

Please stop blaming the searcher. I use Awesome Guild Store as well. The only search trait is "Harmony" and I selected for the entire JC area, not just the Ring I needed.

Those rings from yesterday are still there.



You talk about blame as though the user accepts absolutely zero responsibility for their search critera. If I walk into a shop looking for a particular item, and that item is in the shop, I don't go around telling everyone the shop was rubbish because it didn't have what I wanted. You're blaming the system for not finding something when that something very clearly is there and I have demonstrated that multiple times now.

The user has to accept some responsibility for their search critera.

Troodon80 wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I am not sure if I went to Deshawn then and I am not surprised they sold, but none of those rings are there.

This still illustrates the problem. It is impossible now to know what is listed NOW.

Please stop blaming the searcher. I use Awesome Guild Store as well. The only search trait is "Harmony" and I selected for the entire JC area, not just the Ring I needed.

Those rings from yesterday are still there.

You talk about blame as though the user accepts absolutely zero responsibility for their search critera. If I walk into a shop looking for a particular item, and that item is in the shop, I don't go around telling everyone the shop was rubbish because it didn't have what I wanted. You're blaming the system for not finding something when that something very clearly is there and I have demonstrated that multiple times now.

The user has to accept some responsibility for their search critera.

I don't know what else you could do. There's clearly a user error on this, as there is absolutely no shortage of those items.