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Warden (comparison to other classes and some suggestions for improvement)

lPeacekeeperl
lPeacekeeperl
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Introduction:
I know that's there is negligible probability for this suggestion to reach combat-designers, but i'll share my thoughts and analitics with comunity in hope fore some constructive feedback and discussion.
I’ll do my best to be objective.

Warden is my second char(after DK) but for some reason became my «main», that was ages ago, i was young.
I cannot call wardens miserable or weak or unplayable, but they have some probles. Many of them became true after «hybridisation», some exists even before, some became true only in «one-bar» builds.
Wardens are awesome, when there is only wardens around, but usualy we have to compare ourselvs to others, and wardens offten strugles in this.

Table of content:
  • TL/DR
  • Skill’s in comparison to other classes
  • Suggestions for change

TL/DR: warden offten, feels slow or «laggy», especialy in high intense combats(pvp or arenas). Some of skill loosk outdated , too-much-situative, or strongly relays on teammates(«frozen gate», lotus, nature grasp ). And all of this lead to feelings of «unreliable skill set». If "Class Identity" = "be sloooow"(everithing well bo done, but later) - it's achieved, but this kind of "identity" isn't realy entertaining. We need one or more impruvement or rebalanse, posible point for change: unbound some passives from class skills(or at least from branch), requres more control on actual gameplay: facter application damage from spamable or faster shalks(spamable?), direct controll on "crow control", some mobility/survivability impruvement (self-teleport?)

Skill’s in comparison to other classes

I split all skill’s in categories, some of them match to several categories (streak, you know, i’m tolking about you)
I tryed to avoid «common» skill-trees for reason, and that reason is «passives»

Passives
problem: they mostly locked to class skill’s. And as we will see later some of skills isnt wort it to have on bar.
«Animal Companion» - all requres usage(or having on a bar) of skill from that and only that «skill-branch»
«Green balance» - same, except uniq «Maturation» - works on any heal, gives «minor toughness»
«Winter’s embrace» - +10%mag and frost damage(we have alse bleed poison and phys damage), -15% snares
From one side — many of them are «cumulative » - the more abilities from «branch» you have, the more outcome. Like frozen armor: up to 3000def(if all skill from that branch) But from the other side: other classes have more or stronger «universal» passives.
Summary:
  1. Warden: 10%HP buff (self and teammates), +10%frost,mag.dmg(not affected on half class skills), -15% snares
  2. DK :1650 def alwys, 10%block always, range for all melee attac, res.restore on any ult, bonus to all status effects, flame and poison +5%(only phys besides this)
  3. Templar: 6%wep.dmg, 1320def, -5% on all abilities cost, resurection speed
  4. Sorc: -15% any ult cost, -6% on all abilities cost, -15% ability cost after block, 10% mag recovery, 5% phys and shock damage(no other damage types), up to 10% damage increase
  5. Necromancer: 1250HP, +15% dot.dmg, +8%healing whyle debuffed,
  6. NB: 3000penetration from flank, x2 stun from sneak, res restore on kill, 15% res.recovery, 20 ult on potion drinkage (not as great as other classes thou, maybe they need some love too?)


Spamables
I put in this category all skill that reasonable to be «spamed» to do instant and direct damage. I assume no body will «spam» dot ability with big initial hit if this hit do less than 50% from other spamable without dot, like «twin slashes» from dual wield, unless you have masters daggers, which converts this dot to relatyvely good spamable. And nobody will spam ability, which do damage with delay, or «once in a 10 second»
Lets comape available kits:
  1. Warden: dive(mana|stamina)
  2. DK: stone giant(stamina), whip(mana), fiery breath(stam|mana)AOE, Searing strike(stam,mana), flames of oblivion(mana)
  3. Templar: Jabs(stam|mana)AOE, dark flare(mana)
  4. Sork: cristal shard(stam|mana)
  5. NB: veiled strike(stam|mana) swallow soul(mana), sap essence(mana)AOE
  6. Necro: scull(stam|mana), scyte(stam|mana)AOE

    Probably this is most painful topic for all wardens, since reliaze our main spamable feels slowest of all. Sure, necromancer «skull» need some time to reach target too but it flies a bit faster(or looks like this), and they have alternative. Even more, only mana-morph of spamable is affected by passives.
    Spamables is realy important! Sometimes in hard content (vet.PVE or pvp) it is a mater of one gcd whish defines will you win or loose. And my cliffracer looks neat killing my target after my death, but it will be looking even cooler if it kill before i die.
    But spamable important even in «slow-pace» content: every one loves to annihilate mobs first before teammates
    At the same tyme this «lag» between casting cliffracer and actual appliying damage gives some opportunity to burst, but its incredebly hard to do, and requires too mach time for preparation. But more on that later.
    And one more thing on spamable - they strongly affects feelings given by playing: wen you use molten whyp (especialy 3x) it feels amazing like BOOOM, same for cristal fragments. But cliffracer feels like *desert wind silent sound*

Sustainable damage (dots, pets e.t.c)
  1. Warden: bear(awesome! Pet), swarm(target dot), shards(zone), polar wind(kself, aoe dot, inda fit, but to short duration)
  2. DK: eruption(zone), volotile armor(target dot), searing strike, breath, burning status, flames of oblivion(not only spamable but self buff that can fire sometimes)
  3. Templar: backlash(debuf nuke), Vampires bane(target dot), ritual of retributin(zone, dot, long! Huge!), spear shards(zone), solar barage(self,aoe dot)
  4. Sorc: imp(pet), twilight(pet), atronac(ult, stationary), curse(target debuf, nuke), boundless storm(self, aoe dot), lightning splash (zone)
  5. NB: debiliate(target dot) Cripling grasp(target dotimmobilaze? Snares) Shadow (pet)
  6. Necro: boneyard(zone dot), syphon(zone dot), skelt(pet)
    Wardens dot damage are good enough. But offten depends on a bear(and bear isnt realy reliable in «fast pace fights) some suggestions on that at the end. Aoe one of the best in game(shalks) but not as great as Jabs or DK breath (cannot be realy spamable)

Executes
  1. Warden: some additional damage in bear
  2. DK: - (but 3x whip "kinda" execute)
  3. Templar: radiant opression
  4. Corc: EndlessFury
  5. NB: assassins blade
  6. Necro: passive incrising crit chance
    lack of execute. burst isn.t grat too. at current point its imposible to make some "big boom combo" using onli class skills, but can make a good pressure

Mobility and survivability: engage, dissengage, defence
  1. warden: northern storm for major protection, wings(cannot remove snares), crystal slabs, reflective selfheal, vains?(what if you dont have fritns near you?)
  2. DK:magma armor(limit damage to % of HP), Leap, Chain, scales, two shield(3 if cout leap)
  3. Templar:charge, reflective selfheal, shield
  4. Sorc: streak(stan, damage, and all of this in aoe without target), shield
  5. NB: invis, teleport strike
  6. Necro: Goliath(strongest transform), 2-3 class self-heals(over tyme)
    wardens weakest class in this aspect. of course we can use netch to dispell roots and then use wing to run away, but only if we survive that long

Crowd control
  1. warden: WinterEmbace(snares), ArcticBlast(ureliable stan), CrystalSlab(remote reflective stan), Bear(sometimes ureliable stun) //by unreliable i mean - it harder to predict right moment and create situation for realization of proc
  2. dk: Fossilize(stun+damage+immobilization+unreflectibe), Talons(immobilize), Leap(ULTm stun), Snares in passive
  3. templar: Nova(AOE stun),Javelin (stun and push back),Charge (stun), Snares in main spamable
  4. sorc: streak(no target, stun, damage, unreflectible),NegateMagich(ULT silence AOE),Rune(stun on demand or after beeng attaked),Prison (immobilaze+ buf on healing recieved or damage)
  5. nb: Cripling grasp(immobilaze, Snares), Veiled strike(stun from flank)
  6. Necro: Totem(fear)~effectivelyStun but requires some time, Grasp(snares), Beckoning(pulling) armor
    again lot of abilities and all of them weaker relatyvely to other classes.


Suggestions for change

Required changes:
Additional spamable(preferable AOE) or improvement on existing
More control skills(or more control over controling abilities)

Considering existing skills tree i asume some skills shoul be replaced or reworked
But of course they should not overwhelm others classes.
Looking at other classes we can see that every one of them have both close and range dps abilities
but some of them oriented more on close range(like DK or templar) other — on distance, like sorc
but, from pvp perspective - socr abilities works on every distance, and «ranged» build have great mobility, NB can dissengage from close range fight if build to range, necro have great survive ult for close fights. DK and templars — no comments
considering all this others class benefith we need some changes, and there is different posible directions for this changes:

warden can become more «range oriented» class, but in that case it deserve some more mobility changes.
  • replace in «deceptive pedator» second effect from «minor evasion» to «remove snares and make immune for them fore 2 sec». It will be like psijic but in class tree
  • or replace frozen gate with some kind of teleport. Even without stun and damage. Like sorcs but worse4
  • other idea for «polar wind» in «range dps» build — move complytely «AOE araund character» version to gripping shards. And make «wind» acting like wind — grabbing and liftin enemy in air and moowing in one version — to character in second morph — away from you . Kinda stun, or crowd control. And a bit of «disengage» posibilities

Or we can move in direction of «Main aoe dps»
(why do i think it might be good direction? Well, both of frost ult morps is for damage and control but bouded to character, not to the ground, so, good aoe damage, not very good distance tghou):
will be great to get some close-range aoe spamable ability, and this is wierd that we dont have true «frost-spamable» when we have realy interesting sets, like «frostbite»
  1. maybe replace «frozen gate» with some «bear-thematic» skill? Like a giat ghost beap-paw swiping in front for, like 7 or 10 meters? And make it both mana-frost and bloody-stamina damage. But to be comparable to DK breath or templar Jabs it should not only do damage but have some jussy side-effect. Apply chilled and hemmoraging? Or snare?Or heal from damage? Or make mechanics similar to new crystal weapon — high cost but two «baffs for light attack»
  2. Or, if "one bear is enough" - make it just "spray of sharp icicles doing damage(blood and bleeding dot in stam and frost+ frost dot in mana) in conus in front of character.
  3. Other variant - make mechanics similar to "Flames Of Oblivion" - trowing icicles in 1-2-3 target near you in mid.range

    i'd like to see something like cleave - it looks and feels very nice


Next: survivability
  1. first option: polar wind, it seems like dragon blood from DK but instead of beeing good healing ability it has unrelianle stun, maybe remove stan, double duration and return healing to be on pair with dragon blood, breathing grasp, shread offering?. And of couse ther can be two version: one — to heal timmate with self-HOT, but without any damage and other without HOT, but with frost damage.
  2. other option: living trellis make them "one always on a caster and one on timmate", more expensive, but stronger on a caster to match breath of life/coagulating blood

What about root or immobilisation?
We have useless Nature grasp — make them like «roots from underground» which in one morph snares and heals, in other snares and immobilize affter some time

stun and bear «revork»
extract ult usage from bear themself and give it to warden. Like «bear spirit posesses you and stuns and knocking back enemy in front of you»(with same animation as a bear/Selene, but like spirit-bear) . In that case bear will be only part of damage and debafs in pvp, but will be good alernative to other ults. Of course "passive stun" should be removed from regular bear attac



  • Priyasekarssk
    Priyasekarssk
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    Big post. I think warden requires a execute and instant cc. Apart from that it’s ok.
    Options
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