Remove the selling functionality from guild traders and give them gameplay buffs

barney2525 · June 2022

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

I would propose that there just be a central marketboard in towns and whatnot. And in exchange give guild trader NPCs perks or buffs to encourage guilds to still bid on them. Like +x% chance to get motifs in trials, another could offer -100% teleport costs for members, another could offer damage up buffs or a chance to increase writ voucher rewards. The possibilities are limitless. And the it would still serve as a gold sink because guilds would be competing to offer the most attractive buffs/perks/benefits to their members. It would also encourage guilds who are not trader guilds to make an effort to secure a "trader" (they'd need a new name after this ). Also it would give buyers access to more items as they're now browsing every single listing instead of the ones in a specific zone. It would also help sellers in smaller guilds that currently don't have the most visible trader get their stuff sold.
What are your thoughts?

Not that I dislike the AH idea, but are you suggesting that once a guild gets their trader-of-the-week, every member of the guild has to go to that trader to buff up ? How long do these buffs last ?

I recommend 30 minutes buffs ...

FineFeathered · June 2022

This comes up over and over. To those who want a centralized "Auction house" I suggest you go play a game that has one. I think you'll find that having the most basic intro mats that are worth nothing cost more than you can save ina week on a new toon, will get old fast. I left Swtor when the I couldn't find gloves for an outfit for less than 42 million. For a pair of gloves. Not a recipe to make them, just the actual gloves.

The idea ends up being so badly mangling to the economy as to ruin the games. I prefer the decentralization of the market. Yes, if there weren't addons that allowed you find anything anywhere, it would be perfect. Well, that and bots. There are things wrong with any system, but every centralized economy (AH, or whatever you call it) totally ruins the economy. things that cost 5g at the beginning of the game end up costing 5 million and if you didn't start the game at the beginning, starting a few years later gates all the items in that action house away from new players. Usually for good, if someone doesn't invite you into the game and hand you a huge endowment to get over the hurdle. It sucks. Period.

You can talk in "theoretical terms" (most of the pro centralized market have stated they've never played a game with it, so they have no credibility -- in experience in what they're even advocating) but realistically, people are people, will find a way to "game" any system. If you ever wondered why some of us "quit" living in the general economy or having to do with others much, now you know why. Given any system, they will find a way to game it. But this one is more resistant than central markets. I pray they never go from this system

And we don't need any more player buffs. There are plenty as it is. There's specialized equipment, there's deadric weapons in Cyrodiil, there's all kinds of things. We don't need to make the game any more uneven. If I need something, I appreciate being able to afford to buy it. And in this game, I can. I don't see anything selling for 42 million, except rare furnishings I can def. live without.

I am tired of this argument and wish people would search and read the older threads first. Before getting ideas in their heads about something they know nothing about (or have ulterior motives for).

My $03. worth (inflation, you know).

GrizzlyTank · June 2022

Zuboko wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Another global auction house request in disguise?

No thanks.

What is the problem with a global auction house?
(Honest and sincere question) The only MMO I have ever played is ESO so I have never seen a global auction house in action.

Because it's a threat to those who currently game the market.

Amottica wrote: »

The first aspect is the same developers that decided to go with a trading system that also offered a social aspect, and one that was decentralized, are still running this game. They do not seem interested in ditching their design since it has served the game well for years.

Social? What social aspect? "You have to fund x for a guild to ensure they keep their vendor" isn't exactly social. Nor is havng to run to vendor -> vendor -> wayshrine -> vendor... any social

What it is, is frustrating.

Because this system has been here since launch doesn't make it a good system.

wolfie1.0. · June 2022

dmnqwk wrote: »

I'd rather see the tax raised from 7% to 70% as a proper gold sink. 5% for the guild, 65% gone forever. (no listing price).

I can understand that global auction houses don't work as a way to balance economies, but I also disagree that ESO found a good system by sticking to such a terribly low tax.

I believe someone suggested a graduated tax, which would be more effective since taking gold off the rich stops them purchasing items for re-sale (flipping makes a few people a LOT of money, which doesn't help the economy).

I'd love to see 5% tax on everything going to the guild, with:
5% vanishing tax up to 1k
10% up to 10k
25% up to 100k
45% up to 1 million
65% over 1 million

I know it wont happen, but I also think flipping is never taken into account when it comes to sales tax. Sure it'd mean a lot of people sell stuff in zone chat, but eh with the limited listings they do already.

your proposal wouldn't work. that million dollar item? be prepared to have it sold to you for 1.70 million, or more. have to remember that taxes are technically paid for by the buyer not the seller. Sellers will just increase prices to account for the tax. Also this graduated tax would not take funds from trades. you would see more of those occuring with this type of system, and at the higher prices due to the cost increase.

If you really want to remove gold from the players that have the most of it, this isn't the way to do it, this will just hurt players that don't have gold. there are other methods.

For example:

ZOS could increase the minimum bids on Trader locations from 10k to something like 15 million.

ZOS could release a Guild Housing system. One that converts an "Copy" of existing houses or even new ones and make them have unique upgrades much like the OP suggests. these houses could be furnished like a normal house but each feature and each furnishing would have an upkeep that would be needed to be covered in order to keep those features and furnishings useable.

Those are just examples. but no matter what you do, players will find a way around whatever options there are if they want to avoid doing something. That is why the most effective gold sinks are ones that are desirable and voluntary.

wolfie1.0. · June 2022

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Another global auction house request in disguise?

No thanks.

What is the problem with a global auction house?
(Honest and sincere question) The only MMO I have ever played is ESO so I have never seen a global auction house in action.

There is nothing wrong with the Global AH. Whenever this topic comes up you have the people who control the market in these rich guilds try to shoot anything down that takes gold away from them. This system was put in place to curb inflation and it failed. ZOS knows and won't even talk about it. I have tried to get many friends to try ESO out. Some do but when they see the guild trader system they laugh at it and quit. I'm just thankful I have 3 characters and all the gear they need for my play style. I stay away from the guild traders as much as I can now. I do like to look to see how bad it's getting now.

But the system didn't fail though. Claiming it did is forgetting that the system is functioning just fine, without inflation, on two of the 3 platforms. And, that coincidentally, the 2 platforms that do not have inflation issues, also do not have addons that act like de-facto auction houses by compiling sales and listings information across the server.

Xbox crown to gold ratio is still in the 100/1 range, and has been pretty much in that same spot since crown gifting launched. Our gold plating is still in the 80-100K gold per plate range, and has only mildly fluctuated from there (to like 120K during a few weeks after a patch) since the jewelry crafting launched.

We do not have an inflation problem on console. Which is evidence that the actual in game trading system is not, in any way, responsible for in game inflation.

Absolutely. In fact, I would go so far as to say it's turned me off of global auction systems in general. Every other MMO I played had one in some form, and none of them had prices as stable as console ESO. Not a one. Everyone can buy what they need on console at prices that value their time. And players that put in the work can be rich relative to the rest of playerbase and splash out on nice things. That to me is a good market.

i havn't been on console servers (i don't own one though i really tried to get a decently priced PS5) i honestly find the differing economies of the console servers vs PC servers interesting. It makes me wonder what the difference is. Is it active player base? player base size? active hours? time spent in gold making activities? or something else.

either way one could probably conclude that PC servers have more gold in circulation. Its probably a good thing then that consoles never got cross play with PC because if that occurred.... you would get some serious inflation over there.

FlopsyPrince · June 2022

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Another global auction house request in disguise?

No thanks.

Wouldn't want to fix the broken system!

Amottica · June 2022

dmnqwk wrote: »

I'd rather see the tax raised from 7% to 70% as a proper gold sink. 5% for the guild, 65% gone forever. (no listing price).

I can understand that global auction houses don't work as a way to balance economies, but I also disagree that ESO found a good system by sticking to such a terribly low tax.

I believe someone suggested a graduated tax, which would be more effective since taking gold off the rich stops them purchasing items for re-sale (flipping makes a few people a LOT of money, which doesn't help the economy).

I'd love to see 5% tax on everything going to the guild, with:
5% vanishing tax up to 1k
10% up to 10k
25% up to 100k
45% up to 1 million
65% over 1 million

I know it wont happen, but I also think flipping is never taken into account when it comes to sales tax. Sure it'd mean a lot of people sell stuff in zone chat, but eh with the limited listings they do already.

When something is "flipped" the tax is paid twice so it is taken into account. Tax is paid on the first sale and second sale an no reason to add more because someone took the time to find a good deal and relist it.

Sevalaricgirl · June 2022

The answer is that there is nothing wrong with a global auction house. ZOS did trading guilds because they this idea that everyone should belong to a guild, or 5. And that selling on a global auction house would make everyone rich and not just the minority. I have played many, many MMORPGs and every single one of them has a global auction house except ESO. They can't all be wrong and ZOS be right.

grapedog · June 2022

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

The answer is that there is nothing wrong with a global auction house. ZOS did trading guilds because they this idea that everyone should belong to a guild, or 5. And that selling on a global auction house would make everyone rich and not just the minority. I have played many, many MMORPGs and every single one of them has a global auction house except ESO. They can't all be wrong and ZOS be right.

Actually they can all be wrong.

And a global auction house would not make everyone rich, quite the opposite.

GrizzlyTank · June 2022

grapedog wrote: »

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

The answer is that there is nothing wrong with a global auction house. ZOS did trading guilds because they this idea that everyone should belong to a guild, or 5. And that selling on a global auction house would make everyone rich and not just the minority. I have played many, many MMORPGs and every single one of them has a global auction house except ESO. They can't all be wrong and ZOS be right.

Actually they can all be wrong.

And a global auction house would not make everyone rich, quite the opposite.

A global AH would greatly increase the engagement players have to the market. Not everyone would seek to become wealthy through it, but it would at least have a much larger pool of items which would also drive prices down as well as stabilize them.

kargen27 · June 2022

GrizzlyTank wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Another global auction house request in disguise?

No thanks.

What is the problem with a global auction house?
(Honest and sincere question) The only MMO I have ever played is ESO so I have never seen a global auction house in action.

Because it's a threat to those who currently game the market.

Amottica wrote: »

The first aspect is the same developers that decided to go with a trading system that also offered a social aspect, and one that was decentralized, are still running this game. They do not seem interested in ditching their design since it has served the game well for years.

Social? What social aspect? "You have to fund x for a guild to ensure they keep their vendor" isn't exactly social. Nor is havng to run to vendor -> vendor -> wayshrine -> vendor... any social

What it is, is frustrating.

Because this system has been here since launch doesn't make it a good system.

Players attempting to "game" the market now would have a much much easier time of it with a central location. Instead of visiting over 200 traders they would need to visit only one.

wolfie1.0. · June 2022

GrizzlyTank wrote: »

grapedog wrote: »

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

The answer is that there is nothing wrong with a global auction house. ZOS did trading guilds because they this idea that everyone should belong to a guild, or 5. And that selling on a global auction house would make everyone rich and not just the minority. I have played many, many MMORPGs and every single one of them has a global auction house except ESO. They can't all be wrong and ZOS be right.

Actually they can all be wrong.

And a global auction house would not make everyone rich, quite the opposite.

A global AH would greatly increase the engagement players have to the market. Not everyone would seek to become wealthy through it, but it would at least have a much larger pool of items which would also drive prices down as well as stabilize them.

Much larger potential pool.

To be honest there isn't really anything wrong with a GAH so long as the players and ZOS accepts its inherent weaknesses/ strengths of the system (they DO exist), and build the games economy to work accordingly.

The sad truth of the situation is that ESO is not designed to have a GAH implemented at any point, and ESO in its current and previous states. We have it on record that addons sending queries to guild history (MM specifically) bogged down the servers to the point that the servers crashed. Zos moved guild trader flip days to a weekday because flip during prime time on a weekend was causing spikes as one of the reasons.

These instances were a while back yes, but zos hasn't said or shown any indication that the servers are ready to handle much more than the trickle of new stalls every new zone gives us.

If they open up a GAH that everyone can use... the traffic would be insane. Even if it's 2 to 3 times the current traffic.. that still could be enough to crash the system. Something would either have to go (as in old dlc zones or pvp or something) or zos would have to do major upgrades to the server. On top of that they would have to restructure key portions of the economy and change how it works to account for more instances of items being available for sale, gold sinks, gold generation, betting, etc.

Keep in mind I am not saying they can't make it happen, or that they won't. Just trying to point out that they would have to make a major time and resource investment to do it... and because of that and all of the other items that they need to address and fix. The economy and changing it is likely either not on their to do list, or it's so low on it it might as well not be there.

FlopsyPrince · June 2022

I jokingly expect they are waiting for the day I don't get into the game until just before the nightly reset so I don't have time to do all the "needed" stuff for the event!