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Crystal weapon
Falcon_of_light
✭✭✭
Needs hotfix nerf. Yes, this is just broken, sorc already have op ability (streak) what does multiple things per cast. Plus gap between st6amsorc and magsorc is huge now, but if u broke fragments like u did with weapon - there will be not 70% of bg of sorcs, but 100%. U wanna uberburst on stamsork with double ability in one? - No problem, but in balance always u get "taxes" to this sort of things, its must cost MORE than 2 times more resources than "non burst" wersion, but weapon cost only 800 resources more than fragments, but must cost AT LEAST 5400 stamina for this powerb udget and even after this stamsorc WILL BE MUCH stronger than other, but not completaly broken.
P.S. I know that u need to sell *** to metaslaves, but guys, u must hire people for balance tweaks who actually play some mmos last 20 years, like google power budget and what happens what u ignore it (happens 38k archers who can oneshiot bruiser with 1 combo and can tank 3 another people in the same time).
P.S. I know that u need to sell *** to metaslaves, but guys, u must hire people for balance tweaks who actually play some mmos last 20 years, like google power budget and what happens what u ignore it (happens 38k archers who can oneshiot bruiser with 1 combo and can tank 3 another people in the same time).
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nah, needs a buff. #makestamsorcthenewmagdkWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions4 -
Falcon_of_light✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »Nah, needs a buff. #makestamsorcthenewmagdk
they already are.3 -
duckdown✭✭✭Nah no need to nerf crystal wep. Just make crystal wep ONLY effect melee skill. Cos the only broken class now is bow sorc. problem solve0
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Falcon_of_light✭✭✭Nah no need to nerf crystal wep. Just make crystal wep ONLY effect melee skill. Cos the only broken class now is bow sorc. problem solve
So, spamable what damage 2 times with cost of 1 is balanced to you? Once more, if it will cost 5400 stamina - its still will be best burst nonultimate skill in the game, but its cost for 3k...0 -
duckdown✭✭✭Have u ever see a melee stam sorc as dominant as bowsorc now? Its auto targeting with 2 crystal wep proc is the problem man.0
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Falcon_of_light wrote: »Nah no need to nerf crystal wep. Just make crystal wep ONLY effect melee skill. Cos the only broken class now is bow sorc. problem solve
So, spamable what damage 2 times with cost of 1 is balanced to you? Once more, if it will cost 5400 stamina - its still will be best burst nonultimate skill in the game, but its cost for 3k...
Just out of curiosity. How do you end up with said 5400 stam cost?
2x Dizzy costs ~5k
2x Crushing would sit around 4.2k
2x Concealed ~4.6k
So why should CW cost far more?0 -
Falcon_of_light✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Falcon_of_light wrote: »Nah no need to nerf crystal wep. Just make crystal wep ONLY effect melee skill. Cos the only broken class now is bow sorc. problem solve
So, spamable what damage 2 times with cost of 1 is balanced to you? Once more, if it will cost 5400 stamina - its still will be best burst nonultimate skill in the game, but its cost for 3k...
Just out of curiosity. How do you end up with said 5400 stam cost?
2x Dizzy costs ~5k
2x Crushing would sit around 4.2k
2x Concealed ~4.6k
So why should CW cost far more?
1 this ability makes next ability cost less.
2. 1 gcd 2 effects powerbudges taxes, i swear to you, even if they make it 6k cost - people still will use it, but now its just broken, but yes, zos wanted a buff, so make it a fair buff - 2 hits 1 ability x2 cost of crystal fragments cost.0 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm a mag sorc and I didn't meet any bow-stamsorc yet that would give me a good challenge.
DKs are still the most deadly class I face, followed by Templars.
But I play non-CP campaign only.
Have you considered that maybe not the Crystal Weapon is the problem but CP tree and proc sets?7 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also OP, look through the BG posts and tell me if you see any threads complaining about Stamsorc, all I see is still the same old and naughty mDK stealing the show.2 -
PvP_Exploiter✭✭✭Crystal Weapon doesn't hit twice at the same time, requires two light attacks after casting the skill.
Usually that means you will do LA > C Wep > LA > Some other skill > LA > C Wep.
So it hits twice but other 2 GCDs then you have another two ready to go.
No doubt it's strong but it's not ridiculously overpowered.4 -
Falcon_of_light✭✭✭PvP_Exploiter wrote: »Crystal Weapon doesn't hit twice at the same time, requires two light attacks after casting the skill.
Usually that means you will do LA > C Wep > LA > Some other skill > LA > C Wep.
So it hits twice but other 2 GCDs then you have another two ready to go.
No doubt it's strong but it's not ridiculously overpowered.
No problemos, lest do the same change and mecanic to surprise attack?0 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭I got killed by something in PvP, so now it should be nerfed.Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"10 -
Mr_Stach✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I mean Crystal Weapon and Bow is pretty destructive right now. It's not a "I got killed by x, so X is OP" situation, it's more "X is has too much output for the amount of Effort put in"Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main
Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It was too strong on the first 2 weeks of PTS, but the 50% cost increase seems acceptable. You definitely need to build for more sustain to use Crystal Weapon now (often giving a bar slot to Dark Deal and limiting Magicka available for Endless Fury casts). That's less of an issue for PvP burst builds, but if you can survive the burst they will be out of resources quick. It's also not simply a double damage spammable, you need to be smart with when to cast it (never consecutively) and one of the 2 hits will just be applying pressure a second before of after the burst window. It's unlikely both will land in PvP, since either hit can easily be dodged unless you are stunned for over 1s so the opponent can land consecutive light attacks.Edited by WrathOfInnos on June 14, 2022 5:01AM2 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Falcon_of_light wrote: »PvP_Exploiter wrote: »Crystal Weapon doesn't hit twice at the same time, requires two light attacks after casting the skill.
Usually that means you will do LA > C Wep > LA > Some other skill > LA > C Wep.
So it hits twice but other 2 GCDs then you have another two ready to go.
No doubt it's strong but it's not ridiculously overpowered.
No problemos, lest do the same change and mecanic to surprise attack?
As melee user, I will take surprise attack over crystal weapon anytime.1 -
Thecompton73✭✭✭✭✭PvP_Exploiter wrote: »Crystal Weapon doesn't hit twice at the same time, requires two light attacks after casting the skill.
Usually that means you will do LA > C Wep > LA > Some other skill > LA > C Wep.
So it hits twice but other 2 GCDs then you have another two ready to go.
No doubt it's strong but it's not ridiculously overpowered.
I swapped my Sorc to a stam build a couple of days ago and what I feel makes it truly strong from a PvP perspective is that while you're casting all the high damage buffed LA's you're also quickly building up stacks for bound armaments. Then when BA is ready you hit C wep then release BA and as it's firing you're back to simultaneously casting buffed La's for a really nice stack of damage that all hits in a small window. So in my opinion it's not the that Crystal Weapon is OP by itself but more how well the skill now synergizes with bound armaments.Edited by Thecompton73 on June 15, 2022 7:13PM0 -
Falcon_of_light✭✭✭Thecompton73 wrote: »PvP_Exploiter wrote: »Crystal Weapon doesn't hit twice at the same time, requires two light attacks after casting the skill.
Usually that means you will do LA > C Wep > LA > Some other skill > LA > C Wep.
So it hits twice but other 2 GCDs then you have another two ready to go.
No doubt it's strong but it's not ridiculously overpowered.
I swapped my Sorc to a stam build a couple of days ago and what I feel makes it truly strong from a PvP perspective is that while you're casting all the high damage buffed LA's you're also quickly building up stacks for bound armaments. Then when BA is ready you hit C wep then release BA and as it's firing you're back to simultaneously casting buffed La's for a really nice stack of damage that all hits in a small window. So in my opinion it's not the that Crystal Weapon is OP by itself but more how well the skill now synergizes with bound armaments.
Literally THE ONLY 2 hiting spamable in the game @ its not op, its ok to have 2 ability in one, its totally fine... NO its broken and sorcs need a hotfix nerf. U want a good burst for sorcs? - No problem, its item at least must cost 5400 stam (x2 cost of crushing weapon), why at least? because gcd taxes, u can press something with 1 gcd and 2 gcd powerbudget - u must pay for it, so 6k will be balanced cost. Or revert change completaly...0 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The solution to Crystal Weapon is not to make it cost more stam, hybridization was supposed to open up off-resource skills to the other half of the class, but the high cost of Crystal Weapon makes it already borderline unsuable for Magicka stacking sorcs when stam sorcs can easily use everything in the magicka toolkit. Making it cost more would only serve to further entrench the only actually effective sorcerer class spammable as a "Stamina only" skill. The real solution is to make it cost Magicka instead. StamSorcs get plenty of power from other skills, a skill that you should only need to cast every other time makes for a perfect candidate for an "off-resource" skill when the cost is reasonable, this would also let magicka stacking sorcerers make better use of it since the rest of the magicka toolkit on Sorcerer is extremely lackluster in the current meta.
Think of it this way @Falcon_of_light:
If you have a main resource of pool 30,000 and an off resource pool of 15,000, and the skill costs 3500, it costs ~12% of your main resource and you could get 8 casts out of the pool (assuming no regen) but it would cost 24% of your off resource pool - only 4 casts!
But if you increase the cost to 5400 like you propose, it would cost ~15% of your main resource pool still giving 5 casts - you've only actually shaved 3 casts of the skill off a full resource pool, but it now costs 36% of the off resource pool and you only get 2 casts of the skill.
Nerfing crystal weapon like you propose, buy increasing it's cost hardly affects Stamina Sorcerer at all, but it is a huge detriment to Magicka Sorcerer, switching the resource for the skill from Stam to Magicka (switching it to the off-resource) cuts it's casts on StamSorc in half which is, I think, a reasonable nerf, while also providing a buff to MagSorc which is pretty universally agreed to be underperforming this patch. @ZOS_Gilliam please, please, please consider this change!
Edited by acastanza_ESO on June 16, 2022 5:53PM4 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭So the 1 button I will everything mythic, superhuman dk's, invincible magplars and 100k dmg gankblades are not broken. This is like the least broken thing in the game right now
Tbh the mythic is the only thing which warrants nerfing.
Strong pvp classes are good so that people might actually play themEdited by PhoenixGrey on June 17, 2022 12:53AM2 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »The solution to Crystal Weapon is not to make it cost more stam, hybridization was supposed to open up off-resource skills to the other half of the class, but the high cost of Crystal Weapon makes it already borderline unsuable for Magicka stacking sorcs when stam sorcs can easily use everything in the magicka toolkit. Making it cost more would only serve to further entrench the only actually effective sorcerer class spammable as a "Stamina only" skill. The real solution is to make it cost Magicka instead. StamSorcs get plenty of power from other skills, a skill that you should only need to cast every other time makes for a perfect candidate for an "off-resource" skill when the cost is reasonable, this would also let magicka stacking sorcerers make better use of it since the rest of the magicka toolkit on Sorcerer is extremely lackluster in the current meta.
Think of it this way @Falcon_of_light:
If you have a main resource of pool 30,000 and an off resource pool of 15,000, and the skill costs 3500, it costs ~12% of your main resource and you could get 8 casts out of the pool (assuming no regen) but it would cost 24% of your off resource pool - only 4 casts!
But if you increase the cost to 5400 like you propose, it would cost ~15% of your main resource pool still giving 5 casts - you've only actually shaved 3 casts of the skill off a full resource pool, but it now costs 36% of the off resource pool and you only get 2 casts of the skill.
Nerfing crystal weapon like you propose, buy increasing it's cost hardly affects Stamina Sorcerer at all, but it is a huge detriment to Magicka Sorcerer, switching the resource for the skill from Stam to Magicka (switching it to the off-resource) cuts it's casts on StamSorc in half which is, I think, a reasonable nerf, while also providing a buff to MagSorc which is pretty universally agreed to be underperforming this patch. @ZOS_Gilliam please, please, please consider this change!
this is a terrible idea.
I'm running crystal weapon and bound armaments on my mag sorc no dramas with max mag, stam regen food and dark deal when i need it.
if you try and spam it like a muppet then you're out of resources very quickly, but if you alternate it with other skills, even if that means refreshing scamp early, it's fine2 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Tannus15 please explain what exactly makes it "terrible", switching it to Magicka would make your build better and tamp down stamsorc (which desperately needs it), you haven't actually stated a counterargument other than "it's fine on magsorc as is", which it might be in some cases but very much is not fine in other cases.Edited by acastanza_ESO on June 17, 2022 4:01AM1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Falcon_of_light wrote: »Thecompton73 wrote: »PvP_Exploiter wrote: »Crystal Weapon doesn't hit twice at the same time, requires two light attacks after casting the skill.
Usually that means you will do LA > C Wep > LA > Some other skill > LA > C Wep.
So it hits twice but other 2 GCDs then you have another two ready to go.
No doubt it's strong but it's not ridiculously overpowered.
I swapped my Sorc to a stam build a couple of days ago and what I feel makes it truly strong from a PvP perspective is that while you're casting all the high damage buffed LA's you're also quickly building up stacks for bound armaments. Then when BA is ready you hit C wep then release BA and as it's firing you're back to simultaneously casting buffed La's for a really nice stack of damage that all hits in a small window. So in my opinion it's not the that Crystal Weapon is OP by itself but more how well the skill now synergizes with bound armaments.
Literally THE ONLY 2 hiting spamable in the game @ its not op, its ok to have 2 ability in one, its totally fine... NO its broken and sorcs need a hotfix nerf. U want a good burst for sorcs? - No problem, its item at least must cost 5400 stam (x2 cost of crushing weapon), why at least? because gcd taxes, u can press something with 1 gcd and 2 gcd powerbudget - u must pay for it, so 6k will be balanced cost. Or revert change completaly...
Have you heard of Subterranean Assault? It also hits twice, deals about 50% more damage than Crystal Weapon per hit, deals area damage to all enemies hit, costs 60% of Crystal Weapon, and doesn't rely on landing light attacks. You might say it's not a spammable because it cannot be spammed, but neither is Crystal Weapon now.
Both skills are fine.Edited by WrathOfInnos on June 17, 2022 5:36AM3 -
duckdown✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Falcon_of_light wrote: »Thecompton73 wrote: »PvP_Exploiter wrote: »Crystal Weapon doesn't hit twice at the same time, requires two light attacks after casting the skill.
Usually that means you will do LA > C Wep > LA > Some other skill > LA > C Wep.
So it hits twice but other 2 GCDs then you have another two ready to go.
No doubt it's strong but it's not ridiculously overpowered.
I swapped my Sorc to a stam build a couple of days ago and what I feel makes it truly strong from a PvP perspective is that while you're casting all the high damage buffed LA's you're also quickly building up stacks for bound armaments. Then when BA is ready you hit C wep then release BA and as it's firing you're back to simultaneously casting buffed La's for a really nice stack of damage that all hits in a small window. So in my opinion it's not the that Crystal Weapon is OP by itself but more how well the skill now synergizes with bound armaments.
Literally THE ONLY 2 hiting spamable in the game @ its not op, its ok to have 2 ability in one, its totally fine... NO its broken and sorcs need a hotfix nerf. U want a good burst for sorcs? - No problem, its item at least must cost 5400 stam (x2 cost of crushing weapon), why at least? because gcd taxes, u can press something with 1 gcd and 2 gcd powerbudget - u must pay for it, so 6k will be balanced cost. Or revert change completaly...
Have you heard of Subterranean Assault? It also hits twice, deals about 50% more damage than Crystal Weapon per hit, deals area damage to all enemies hit, costs 60% of Crystal Weapon, and doesn't rely on landing light attacks. You might say it's not a spammable because it cannot be spammed, but neither is Crystal Weapon now.
Both skills are fine.
subs assault need 3 sec to proc than another 3second to proc the 2nd shalk + has range only 20m. Crystal wep can proc in 1 gcd within 2 second (weaving) + with bow with automatic targeting it hits really hard. Make crystal wep only effect melee damage. Problem solved no more crazy op bowsorc.1 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Falcon_of_light wrote: »Thecompton73 wrote: »PvP_Exploiter wrote: »Crystal Weapon doesn't hit twice at the same time, requires two light attacks after casting the skill.
Usually that means you will do LA > C Wep > LA > Some other skill > LA > C Wep.
So it hits twice but other 2 GCDs then you have another two ready to go.
No doubt it's strong but it's not ridiculously overpowered.
I swapped my Sorc to a stam build a couple of days ago and what I feel makes it truly strong from a PvP perspective is that while you're casting all the high damage buffed LA's you're also quickly building up stacks for bound armaments. Then when BA is ready you hit C wep then release BA and as it's firing you're back to simultaneously casting buffed La's for a really nice stack of damage that all hits in a small window. So in my opinion it's not the that Crystal Weapon is OP by itself but more how well the skill now synergizes with bound armaments.
Literally THE ONLY 2 hiting spamable in the game @ its not op, its ok to have 2 ability in one, its totally fine... NO its broken and sorcs need a hotfix nerf. U want a good burst for sorcs? - No problem, its item at least must cost 5400 stam (x2 cost of crushing weapon), why at least? because gcd taxes, u can press something with 1 gcd and 2 gcd powerbudget - u must pay for it, so 6k will be balanced cost. Or revert change completaly...
Have you heard of Subterranean Assault? It also hits twice, deals about 50% more damage than Crystal Weapon per hit, deals area damage to all enemies hit, costs 60% of Crystal Weapon, and doesn't rely on landing light attacks. You might say it's not a spammable because it cannot be spammed, but neither is Crystal Weapon now.
Both skills are fine.
haunting curse also procs twice per cast.
@acastanza_ESO there are several reasons i hate the idea of crystal weapon being a magicka skill
firstly, i think it's very important for all classes to have a magicka and stamina spammable option with the current hybrid meta. this allows for a greater variety of build diversity since you can run any weapon combination on either your primary or secondary resource pool. as a general rule, in my opinion, you should be looking to run a spammable which matches the cost reduction passives of your armour. making crystal weapon a magicka spammable would mean the only option left for sorc is crushing weapon, which sucks in it's current form.
secondly it makes the sorc skill kit significantly less interesting. if you make frags and cw use the same resource it's literally just the same skill. you use one or the other on exactly the same build, so people will just work out which one is more damage and then just use that, the other morph becoming a dead morph. like the current iteration of the warden bear.
it's bad enough that the orignal implementation of crystal weapon was just a sorc version of imbue weapon, at least now it has something to differentiate it.1