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Proc Sets: Ideas & Solutions on how to tackle and fix the Problem(s)
Seraphayel
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Hey there,
as we already know, this has become quite a heated topic. Instead of just talking about YES or NO to proc sets, I would like to present some ideas on how to tackle this issue without focusing on the extremes.
The core problem: the (ab)use of multiple proc sets at the same time, e.g. very tanky builds that have three damage proc sets and are almost unkillable; very bursty builds that have three damage proc sets that kill you in an instant and you can't do anything about it; ballgroups full of proc sets were nobody dies anymore (etc).
Important notice: a single proc set is never a problem or an issue. It's the possibility to combine two or three proc sets which can even activate at the same time.
A variety of solutions:
1. Only one proc set at a time
In my opinion this is a fairly easy to implement solution. Some proc sets are stronger than others, but if we can have one proc set there will be a huge increase of build diversity as there are multiple very good to great proc sets and people can start to build around them.
You want a Valkyn Skoria build? Go for it. You want an Icy Conjurer build? Go for it. You want a Vateshran Staff build? Go for it. You want a Sheer Venom build? Go for it. You want an Iceheart build? Go for it. The choice is all yours.
There are so many good proc sets in the game that choosing from just one proc set at the same time will on one hand increase build diversity as everyone has other preferences and on the other hand it will fix the issue of proc sets overall.
+ Build diversity
+ No stacking of procs anymore
- Less "fun" proc builds
2. As much proc sets as you want, but their power reduces by the amount of proc sets you're wearing
This is another approach. Instead of reducing the amount of proc sets usable per time to one, you can wear as many proc sets as you want, but their power scales with the amount of proc sets you're wearing. If you're wearing one proc set, it will scale to its full potential, so 100%. If you wear two proc sets, each proc set will scale to 50% of its full potential, so 50+50=100%. If you're wearing three proc sets, each set will scale to 33% of its full potential, so 33+33+33= ~ 100% etc.
This way you keep the status quo, but reduce the impact of proc sets on fighting, because you still have the full power of just one set at a time.
+ Status quo will be kept and people don't need to change their builds / equipment
+ The effect of wearing multiple proc sets in combat will be limited
- Everybody will stick to the same "meta-builds"
3. Let battle spirit reduce the effectiveness of proc sets
Easiest solution: battle spirit now directly reduces the potency of proc sets. This can be done with just one single change. Reduce the power of proc sets by 50% (or 75% or whatever) under the influence of battle spirit and call it a day.
The same advantages and disadvantages as above, but less work required on ZOS side:
+ Status quo will be kept and people don't need to change their builds / equipment
+ The effect of wearing multiple proc sets in combat will be limited
- Everybody will stick to the same "meta-builds"
4. Long term solution: make procs "slottable" like you did with Champion Points
I imagine this similar to the Champion Point system. Everybody has two available slots for proc sets, one for a potency proc set and one for a defensive proc set. Full proc set bonuses are unlocked account-wide and can be used on every character (but only one at the same time if you have the full set once, if you have it twice you can use it on two characters at once etc.). Imagine something a bit similar to Mythics. Then you can slot the bonuses depending on your personal preferences, but you are limited to one damage / healing and one defensive proc set at a time. You cannot build unkillable tanks with massive damage or very burst builds with super high defense anymore.
To be honest, this requires a lot of work and I haven't put that much effort into it yet, this is just a basic idea of what could be.
5. Keep the Status Quo: don't change anything
6. Disable proc sets in PvP (ZOS "solution")
Long story short: removing all proc sets from PvP is no solution to the problem, but keeping the status quo - which is highly problematic - is no option either. Please consider any of the above options (like 1.-3. for short term solutions and something like 4. for long term). 5. + 6. are just here for the pull.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Community, what's your opinion on this topic? How do you like some of these ideas? What's your preferred solution?
as we already know, this has become quite a heated topic. Instead of just talking about YES or NO to proc sets, I would like to present some ideas on how to tackle this issue without focusing on the extremes.
The core problem: the (ab)use of multiple proc sets at the same time, e.g. very tanky builds that have three damage proc sets and are almost unkillable; very bursty builds that have three damage proc sets that kill you in an instant and you can't do anything about it; ballgroups full of proc sets were nobody dies anymore (etc).
Important notice: a single proc set is never a problem or an issue. It's the possibility to combine two or three proc sets which can even activate at the same time.
A variety of solutions:
1. Only one proc set at a time
In my opinion this is a fairly easy to implement solution. Some proc sets are stronger than others, but if we can have one proc set there will be a huge increase of build diversity as there are multiple very good to great proc sets and people can start to build around them.
You want a Valkyn Skoria build? Go for it. You want an Icy Conjurer build? Go for it. You want a Vateshran Staff build? Go for it. You want a Sheer Venom build? Go for it. You want an Iceheart build? Go for it. The choice is all yours.
There are so many good proc sets in the game that choosing from just one proc set at the same time will on one hand increase build diversity as everyone has other preferences and on the other hand it will fix the issue of proc sets overall.
+ Build diversity
+ No stacking of procs anymore
- Less "fun" proc builds
2. As much proc sets as you want, but their power reduces by the amount of proc sets you're wearing
This is another approach. Instead of reducing the amount of proc sets usable per time to one, you can wear as many proc sets as you want, but their power scales with the amount of proc sets you're wearing. If you're wearing one proc set, it will scale to its full potential, so 100%. If you wear two proc sets, each proc set will scale to 50% of its full potential, so 50+50=100%. If you're wearing three proc sets, each set will scale to 33% of its full potential, so 33+33+33= ~ 100% etc.
This way you keep the status quo, but reduce the impact of proc sets on fighting, because you still have the full power of just one set at a time.
+ Status quo will be kept and people don't need to change their builds / equipment
+ The effect of wearing multiple proc sets in combat will be limited
- Everybody will stick to the same "meta-builds"
3. Let battle spirit reduce the effectiveness of proc sets
Easiest solution: battle spirit now directly reduces the potency of proc sets. This can be done with just one single change. Reduce the power of proc sets by 50% (or 75% or whatever) under the influence of battle spirit and call it a day.
The same advantages and disadvantages as above, but less work required on ZOS side:
+ Status quo will be kept and people don't need to change their builds / equipment
+ The effect of wearing multiple proc sets in combat will be limited
- Everybody will stick to the same "meta-builds"
4. Long term solution: make procs "slottable" like you did with Champion Points
I imagine this similar to the Champion Point system. Everybody has two available slots for proc sets, one for a potency proc set and one for a defensive proc set. Full proc set bonuses are unlocked account-wide and can be used on every character (but only one at the same time if you have the full set once, if you have it twice you can use it on two characters at once etc.). Imagine something a bit similar to Mythics. Then you can slot the bonuses depending on your personal preferences, but you are limited to one damage / healing and one defensive proc set at a time. You cannot build unkillable tanks with massive damage or very burst builds with super high defense anymore.
To be honest, this requires a lot of work and I haven't put that much effort into it yet, this is just a basic idea of what could be.
5. Keep the Status Quo: don't change anything
6. Disable proc sets in PvP (ZOS "solution")
Long story short: removing all proc sets from PvP is no solution to the problem, but keeping the status quo - which is highly problematic - is no option either. Please consider any of the above options (like 1.-3. for short term solutions and something like 4. for long term). 5. + 6. are just here for the pull.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Community, what's your opinion on this topic? How do you like some of these ideas? What's your preferred solution?
PS5
EU
Aldmeri Dominion
- Khajiit Arcanist -
Proc Sets: Ideas & Solutions on how to tackle and fix the Problem(s) 30 votes
Only one proc set at a time
16%
5 votes
Power scaling of proc sets by the amounf of proc sets you're wearing
3%
1 vote
Battle Spirit reduces the effectiveness of proc sets
20%
6 votes
A new system akin to the Champion Point revamp (e.g. slottable proc set bonuses)
0%
Keep the Status Quo: don't change anything
20%
6 votes
Disable proc sets in PvP (ZOS "solution")
13%
4 votes
Other [explain in comments]
26%
8 votes
1
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Katheriah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Keep the Status Quo: don't change anythingIf any change: make 1 no proc server, keep the rest as it is and see from there what people actually want.0 -
eKsDee✭✭✭✭✭Only one proc set at a timeEither this, or have proc sets scale completely with stats like regular skills and maybe reduce the 2-4 piece bonuses, so that the more proc sets a person has (or the more they build into defense while neglecting offense), the weaker their proc sets are.1
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Skullstachio✭✭✭✭✭Battle Spirit reduces the effectiveness of proc setsTo be fair, I kinda pointed this out in a comment in an old thread, but considering that option was there, I’m on board with battle spirit halving all non-oblivion proc Damage (oblivion damage lore wise is supposed to be deadly to tanks.)
But the way I see it with those around me: In one ear. Out the other.If you see me anywhere. Know that I am sitting back with a bag of popcorn, watching as ESO burns the goodwill of its player base with practices that only disrespects the players time like it did to me and many others...
If a game does not respect your time, best thing to do is move on from it and find something else.0 -
hands0medevil✭✭✭✭✭Other [explain in comments]At the moment, almost ALL sets are treated as proc sets and we have almost 400 sets in total. They REAL problem is with about 10 sets? Correct me plz. It shouldn't be so difficult to balance them. OP sets were released to boost DLCs sales. No balance changes were ever made in time. Any other change than tuning down OP sets (Crimson, Harbinger etc.) is overkill right now. ZOS need to rethink their sales strategy, create less OP sets or listen player base playing on PTS. And maybe it's time think about reducing number of sets available with each DLC. Most of them is useless or long forgotten anyway. I would prefer 1 well thought-out set with new dungeon, instead of 3 useless or OP sets. They can drop in in 3 types (L, M, H), like monster sets do.Edited by hands0medevil on March 7, 2021 12:50PM2
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Sangwyne✭✭✭✭✭
✭ORRRRR instead of reworking the entire armor system from the ground up, while implementing penalties to Heavy and Light armor users, on top of nerfing every single source of crit in the game, removing every proc set in Cyrodiil for 6 months leaving only 19 that can still be used and changing the entire CP system to work around the new system, we could simply... nerf Malacath? Don't get me wrong, some of the new changes are positive and I welcome them, but there's been a rather easy solution staring us in the face for a while now, and with the nerfs to critical chance and the implementation of a base 20% critical resistance for every player, which also penalizes crit damage, Malacath has simply become that much stronger when it was already an issue to begin with.1 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Other [explain in comments]They should just scale with offensive stats. You would need to build damage to do damage and wearing more than one would make this difficult.
The base damage of each set should be reduced to that of an equivalent skill and then scale up the same that a skill would and be able to crit. This makes them better for pve and forces the user to make choices in PvP. Rather than running a tank in 3 proc sets an malacath. This also makes things more consistent on a whole.
Edit: the above is for treatment of proc damage/healing sets. Not the sets that grant you additional stats when adhering to a condition.Edited by relentless_turnip on March 7, 2021 11:27AM2 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Can they just not make proc sets scale from highest resource, like skills do.
So if you want your procs to do damage, you have to spec into it. No more 40k health with high damage procs.
And then not allow malacath to buff procs.
They'd barely be an issue outside of pure glass cannon builds then. But those people are glass cannons.1 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭Other [explain in comments]Disable proc sets that deal damage over x time, those are the ones we are complaining about. Enable stat proc sets, healing proc sets and burst damage/heal proc sets.1
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Wandering_Immigrant✭✭✭✭Other [explain in comments]I posted this before but my idea was just to make the effects from proc sets be interuptable.
This would allow proc builds to retain thier potential effectiveness while creating counter play to discourage people from going all in on it.0 -
madrab73✭✭✭✭✭The main problem with proc sets is how ZOS use overpowered sets to sell DLC. Yes, I'm talking about Crimson, Malacath and Vateshran staff. I don't think they can be bad enough at their jobs for these sets to be too strong by accident. This is almost certainly a business decision.1
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AuraNebula✭✭✭✭✭Other [explain in comments]Or they could fix the sets that are over performing. According to every player who posts in the forum people are all wearing the same 1 to 3 sets and that's what is causing the proc problem.
So fix those sets and leave all the sets working as intended alone.1 -
Ceejengine✭✭✭Other [explain in comments]What about some kind of internal cooldown? Like say 3 seconds. Once one proc set fires from your character, another one can't for x seconds. Create a baseline cd for all procs like 3s. You can add an internal queue as well so like
Crimson fires off - total active time 3s. Can't activate again for 8s.
You take damage as soon as Crimson shoots so that proc your leeching plate, so LP is queued but cannot activate yet.
3 seconds after Crimson finishes its heal, Leeching activates and starts healing you for 5s. While leeching is active, Crimson proc and is queued but cannot activate until Leeching has resolved.
I think that idea would keep uptime similar but it would end those huge bursts. An issue I see is prioritization if you're wearing 3 proc sets..
Aaand some sets are only fun when they're working in unison with another, which this would kill.Edited by Ceejengine on March 7, 2021 5:55PM0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Only one proc set at a timeRight now I really think they should keep proc sets enabled, but make them scale with battle spirit. How complicated can that be? Just reduce their effectiveness by 50% under the effect of Battle Spirit and the Problem won’t be solved, but it will be way better.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Grandsheba✭✭✭Other [explain in comments]From testing and experience as well as dying and killing i see both sides, but removing procs is not possible as people paid for this part of the game which speaks to how fun it is to have build diversity and combos. But some combos are broken, instead of doing a broad and some what lazy ban of a mechanic, fix the specifics as they come.
Some skills that are combined together are pretty broken and its not the players fault for using them. All skills and abilities can be balanced by having all of them work on a rule/system. Some of this has already been started (like necromancer skills and leaching plate for proc sets) being that they have abilities that scale with health. We have 3 pools of power can cant stack into all of them. Skills across the board should have roughly the se amount of benefits/buffs and counter cost as their counterparts.
Having armors sets that heal bas their heals off of max health and damage off the higher of the offense stat.
Sets that offer damage sheilds being based off max health.
Making sets onky able to immobilize instead of stun. (Main issue i see with dark Convergence as it doesnt allow for counter play when combined with another set or skill. The damage and mech is cool and i love fighting against them during raids, but the stun limits your ability to react and counter with a block or heal.)
Sets that spawn pets should allow those pets to be harmed and killed. Making them fully affected by all abilities. (This removes the issue of pet spam and overwhelming ads for pvp while also allowing more pairing of beneficial sets when a pet does die in pve and pvp. But there shouldn't be a pet that can attack you and be immortal in game ever.)
Sets that proc and deal damage based on the targets defense is new and welcoming and really falls in line with the max health tanky targeted enemies.
Lastly making it VERY clear what procs what. Its fine to have sets proc other sets but at times what should and shouldn't proc a set overlaps or doesnt make sense. The damage types need to be more defined and clear.
Overall the main issue always seems to come down to pvp and if thats the case just have one instance of pvp without proc sets while the kther has full access. We all have different play styles and interests. Removing one style of play in favor for another doesnt really fix anything as both and become broke since the main issues isnt balanced and working on a fundamental rule. Having guidelines for sets to be scaled and making sure that sets can be counterer either through heals or blocking to reduce damage is pretty important. Removing stuns from sets and replacing it with immobilize is feasible."The Tower touches all the mantles of Heaven and by its apex one can be as he will. Be as he was and yet changed for all else on that path for those that walk after. This is [CHIM] the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals."0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Necro threadSay no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge1
