Has Oakensoul just made lots of skills and armor set buffs redundant?

Androrix · June 2022

Honest question. Genuinely interested in the answer.

I enjoy matching skills sets and armor sets to make a character that suits my play style and is strong enough to enjoy the game. Right now I just feel like that aspect of the game has been gutted. Most early armor sets were already useless and now even later ones and so many skills seem pointless too.

I play mostly solo, don't PvP, and play one bar, so you would think that oakensoul was targeted at me. Instead it just makes me feel empty.

(I know I don't have to use the ring, but that just ignores the fact ESO is a mmrpg. I still want to feel the character I spent countless hours on is competitive in the game world. Also, multiplayer things I did enjoy, like participating in Harrowstorms, seem likely to be far less fun now. I doubt they will continue to be a challenge with such power creep in the groups.)

Love the game. Really not intended as a gripe.

Browiseth · June 2022

in the long run i'm of the belief oakensoul will serve more as a crutch for players who struggle with managing 2 bar setups. a traditional 2 bar setup played skillfully will always beat out oakensoul played at a similar level of skill/knowledge. i'm sure there will be niche pvp builds that know how to take advantage of the item to its fullest but if the item really does overperform i'm sure we'll see it nerfed in some way.

there's a lot of hype for oakensoul ring right now, but i think it's due to a few factors.

1) it's a cool unique item that we've never seen before
2) lots of people are really really bad at this game, and this item serves as an option for them to simplify their gameplay by quite a bit (this sounds like a complaint but i'm glad these players have this option)
3) just look at that tooltip lol. how can you not want to equip it just to check out how it works

ultimately, it sounds like you have 2 3 options here

1) you say you prefer playing a 1 bar setup, so there's an item in the game that rewards you for that playstyle now. it's a single item, so it's hardly taking up your entire build
2) learn a solid 2 bar rotation and outperform an oakensoul build
3) just don't use it, though you already said this is a mental barrier for you

Vrienda · June 2022

I think Oakensoul should be a way for less skilled players to stay somewhat viable. It shouldn't be the best of the best. But it should be a good middle of the road option for folks who don't want to two-bar.

Personally I'd love to grab it as two bars often felt kinda clunky to use for me and it'll be nice to not spend several seconds buffing and rebuffing every fight.

PDarkBHood · June 2022

I really like the ring, but it does come at a great cost. You not only loose the backbar, but you loose 2 armour/ring item slots. That is a lot too loose. I wish they has a heavy armour three pack. I know they have weapon and jewelry 3 packs, but we now need armour three packs for these mythic items to really be useful.

fred4 · June 2022

Androrix wrote: »

Honest question. Genuinely interested in the answer.

I enjoy matching skills sets and armor sets to make a character that suits my play style and is strong enough to enjoy the game. Right now I just feel like that aspect of the game has been gutted. Most early armor sets were already useless and now even later ones and so many skills seem pointless too.

I play mostly solo, don't PvP, and play one bar, so you would think that oakensoul was targeted at me. Instead it just makes me feel empty.

(I know I don't have to use the ring, but that just ignores the fact ESO is a mmrpg. I still want to feel the character I spent countless hours on is competitive in the game world. Also, multiplayer things I did enjoy, like participating in Harrowstorms, seem likely to be far less fun now. I doubt they will continue to be a challenge with such power creep in the groups.)

Love the game. Really not intended as a gripe.

I had the same feeling when the original Craglorn and IC were nerfed, content that I enjoyed and found challenging at the time.

Oakensoul is not the only OP thing in the game for solo play. If you found Harrowstorms engaging, which I presume means they were in that nice place between comfortable and challenging, then you simply haven't discovered x, y and z yet, which were already in the game and which makes them trivial to solo, even on a one bar build. In the interest of not providing spoilers, I won't name those things and you probably shouldn't check out my historical posts in this forum.

The answer, really, is to move on. Oakensoul is only one factor. As your proficiency and knowledge grows, the game has challenges beyond Harrowstorms. The vet solo arenas. Certain DLC world bosses. Soloing veteran dungeons...

jaws343 · June 2022

PDarkBHood wrote: »

I really like the ring, but it does come at a great cost. You not only loose the backbar, but you loose 2 armour/ring item slots. That is a lot too loose. I wish they has a heavy armour three pack. I know they have weapon and jewelry 3 packs, but we now need armour three packs for these mythic items to really be useful.

I personally think the great cost aspect is a bit of an overstatement.

As far as gear setups. Most players are running two 5 piece sets, a mythic, and a 1 piece set. With a weapon set back bar in PVE.

All that is really happening is you lose the back bar weapon. And you replace 1 mythic with another.

As for back bar. In PVP for example, most players use their back bars to either buff or heal. With the ring, all of the buffs you would swap to your back bar for are now permanently applied to you. And 1 heal being swapped to the front bar isn't too much of an imposition on a build. So, yeah, you lose the back bar, but, you don't have to cast any resources to keep the buffs up anymore, you don't have to worry about lag preventing or delaying bar swap.

It's not as much of a cost as it is being made out to be, when you don't really need the barspace for skills that applied buffs you now get for free with 100% uptime.

And, there is a 3 piece armor set. Trainee. It's pretty great.

Freelancer_ESO · June 2022

The earlier designs of the Oakensoul ring were stat buffs rather than major/minor buffs but, they ran into the issue of potentially being excessive when coupled with the major/minor buffs.

The current iteration will make some skills/morphs/sets partially or totally redundant.

For players moving from having 10 skills + 2 ultimates down to 5 skills + 1 ultimate having some skills be redundant doesn't hurt much but, if you already were running 5 it is probably going to hurt a bit if you were using them.

The armor sets fall into a similar position. I'm obviously going to need to scrap the Treasure Hunter set on my sorc if I use the Oaken Soul ring with it but, I only choose to use that set in the first place to save a bar slot so that doesn't really annoy me personally but, it could annoy other people having to change to a new armor set.

The Oakensoul does open up the possibility for trying some new odd builds. For example, I'm going to be trying turning my Dunmer DK healer for normal dungeons into a Stage 4 Vampire using Queen's Elegance + Sergent's Mail since Oakensoul will make it so I'm not stuck running SPC all of the time.

KKolly · June 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

PDarkBHood wrote: »

I really like the ring, but it does come at a great cost. You not only loose the backbar, but you loose 2 armour/ring item slots. That is a lot too loose. I wish they has a heavy armour three pack. I know they have weapon and jewelry 3 packs, but we now need armour three packs for these mythic items to really be useful.

I personally think the great cost aspect is a bit of an overstatement.

As far as gear setups. Most players are running two 5 piece sets, a mythic, and a 1 piece set. With a weapon set back bar in PVE.

All that is really happening is you lose the back bar weapon. And you replace 1 mythic with another.

As for back bar. In PVP for example, most players use their back bars to either buff or heal. With the ring, all of the buffs you would swap to your back bar for are now permanently applied to you. And 1 heal being swapped to the front bar isn't too much of an imposition on a build. So, yeah, you lose the back bar, but, you don't have to cast any resources to keep the buffs up anymore, you don't have to worry about lag preventing or delaying bar swap.

It's not as much of a cost as it is being made out to be, when you don't really need the barspace for skills that applied buffs you now get for free with 100% uptime.

And, there is a 3 piece armor set. Trainee. It's pretty great.

Yup and thats not even considering the Heroism which gives you 160 Ult per minute. Outside of the ring, Major Heroism is nigh impossible to get on a toon. I've been getting hit with never-ending Dawnies in BGs this week and its becoming obvious how.

jaws343 · June 2022

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

The earlier designs of the Oakensoul ring were stat buffs rather than major/minor buffs but, they ran into the issue of potentially being excessive when coupled with the major/minor buffs.

The current iteration will make some skills/morphs/sets partially or totally redundant.

For players moving from having 10 skills + 2 ultimates down to 5 skills + 1 ultimate having some skills be redundant doesn't hurt much but, if you already were running 5 it is probably going to hurt a bit if you were using them.

The armor sets fall into a similar position. I'm obviously going to need to scrap the Treasure Hunter set on my sorc if I use the Oaken Soul ring with it but, I only choose to use that set in the first place to save a bar slot so that doesn't really annoy me personally but, it could annoy other people having to change to a new armor set.

The Oakensoul does open up the possibility for trying some new odd builds. For example, I'm going to be trying turning my Dunmer DK healer for normal dungeons into a Stage 4 Vampire using Queen's Elegance + Sergent's Mail since Oakensoul will make it so I'm not stuck running SPC all of the time.

People keep saying the buffs are redundant. But they aren't really redundant.

They are only redundant if you continue to run the unnecessary skills.

But, you can run entirely different skills that don't offer the buffs the ring has, or offers different buffs. Making every buff the ring provides to a build unique to that build. The redundancy of the buffs is entirely in the hands of the person creating the build.

Edited to add an example:

Say I run Chudan on a sorc build. Chudan gives the major resistances. So does Boundless storm.

If I run both Boundless and Chudan together on the build, yes it is redundant.

But, if I run Chudan, and then use another skill, like Race Against Time, the set is no longer redundant.

The point is, you can't expect to run the exact same setup with everything, you need to make changes with certain set pieces to better maximize their potential. If you are running Oakensoul and then also running skills that give you the same buffs, you are running a terribly put together build. That isn't a problem with the ring, that is a problem with the build.

Vaoh · June 2022

The idea is that you no longer have to worry about using so many buff skills since you are given just about every Major buff in the game at 100% uptimes.

You like to play solo/questing stuff the most right? I would say you are best off slotting this ring, and then catering the rest of your build toward “fun” sets. Look into proc set effects that look cool and deal damage or maybe even sets that give speed like Adept Rider.

That ring will be BiS in the majority of the game.

Amottica · June 2022

Browiseth wrote: »

in the long run i'm of the belief oakensoul will serve more as a crutch for players who struggle with managing 2 bar setups. a traditional 2 bar setup played skillfully will always beat out oakensoul played at a similar level of skill/knowledge. i'm sure there will be niche pvp builds that know how to take advantage of the item to its fullest but if the item really does overperform i'm sure we'll see it nerfed in some way.

there's a lot of hype for oakensoul ring right now, but i think it's due to a few factors.

1) it's a cool unique item that we've never seen before
2) lots of people are really really bad at this game, and this item serves as an option for them to simplify their gameplay by quite a bit (this sounds like a complaint but i'm glad these players have this option)
3) just look at that tooltip lol. how can you not want to equip it just to check out how it works

ultimately, it sounds like you have 2 3 options here

1) you say you prefer playing a 1 bar setup, so there's an item in the game that rewards you for that playstyle now. it's a single item, so it's hardly taking up your entire build
2) learn a solid 2 bar rotation and outperform an oakensoul build
3) just don't use it, though you already said this is a mental barrier for you

I agree.

I expect we will see most players continue with their 2-bar build. Those that find that challenging for one reason or another will likely find this new mythic useful as it was designed to help those that prefer a simpler one-bar build.

DarrowLykos · June 2022

I like 1 and 2 bar builds, I think building a viable 1 bar build is quite the challenge and it really makes you delve into some serious gear combos you never would have thought of using before. Now I am having fun using the ring and seeing how many other minor buffs I can squeeze in there

Vaoh · June 2022

DarrowLykos wrote: »

I like 1 and 2 bar builds, I think building a viable 1 bar build is quite the challenge and it really makes you delve into some serious gear combos you never would have thought of using before. Now I am having fun using the ring and seeing how many other minor buffs I can squeeze in there

Nothing challenging about having a viable one bar build with this ring. In fact for anything outside of highly coordinated trial groups, pretty much everyone will do better with this ring vs any “2 bar” builds.

xaraan · June 2022

no

After a few days of running oakensoul I dropped it for pale order. Mostly doing stuff solo like i tend to solo my daily dungeons, world bosses, etc (And questing, but that's easy stuff)

Much better to have more passive incoming healing and have a second bar for ultimate options, more aoe/single target choices for mobs and bosses. Easier getting particular skills on your bar for passives with two bars, get more set options if you run sets that proc on a second bar, or even arena weapons. Most of the buffs from the ring you get just from using skills or potions you'd already be using anyway - I think it had just a couple extra bonuses I didn't already end up getting which didn't equal losing the healing and choices lost.

I can definitely see certain niche builds of certain classes working better with the ring than others though.

I think the most telling was yesterday I had a world boss fight in High Isle and it was the one with two bosses in the circle that spawn adds constantly. I wiped 4 times in a row with Oakensoul on (and I had funnel health going and CP healing passive with damage in, so pretty good passive healing going on). The main problem was the knock down the one boss does that's unbreakable stun - you'd be dead before it let you stand up. Chalk it up to being a potato player if it works for you, but I'm aight: Put my old build on with pale order - one shot it without breaking a sweat. It was like night and day. Granted, that's a specific example, but it was pretty glaring to me.

Mostly I was just annoyed at the lack of options having only one bar. Maybe on my templar it would be better since its just jab jab jab while doing aoe or single target. My damage was higher with the oakensoul I'll say b/c of the couple buffs it gave that I don't have normally, but it wasn't enough to make up for what I lost.

Freelancer_ESO · June 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

The earlier designs of the Oakensoul ring were stat buffs rather than major/minor buffs but, they ran into the issue of potentially being excessive when coupled with the major/minor buffs.

The current iteration will make some skills/morphs/sets partially or totally redundant.

For players moving from having 10 skills + 2 ultimates down to 5 skills + 1 ultimate having some skills be redundant doesn't hurt much but, if you already were running 5 it is probably going to hurt a bit if you were using them.

The armor sets fall into a similar position. I'm obviously going to need to scrap the Treasure Hunter set on my sorc if I use the Oaken Soul ring with it but, I only choose to use that set in the first place to save a bar slot so that doesn't really annoy me personally but, it could annoy other people having to change to a new armor set.

The Oakensoul does open up the possibility for trying some new odd builds. For example, I'm going to be trying turning my Dunmer DK healer for normal dungeons into a Stage 4 Vampire using Queen's Elegance + Sergent's Mail since Oakensoul will make it so I'm not stuck running SPC all of the time.

People keep saying the buffs are redundant. But they aren't really redundant.

They are only redundant if you continue to run the unnecessary skills.

But, you can run entirely different skills that don't offer the buffs the ring has, or offers different buffs. Making every buff the ring provides to a build unique to that build. The redundancy of the buffs is entirely in the hands of the person creating the build.

Edited to add an example:

Say I run Chudan on a sorc build. Chudan gives the major resistances. So does Boundless storm.

If I run both Boundless and Chudan together on the build, yes it is redundant.

But, if I run Chudan, and then use another skill, like Race Against Time, the set is no longer redundant.

The point is, you can't expect to run the exact same setup with everything, you need to make changes with certain set pieces to better maximize their potential. If you are running Oakensoul and then also running skills that give you the same buffs, you are running a terribly put together build. That isn't a problem with the ring, that is a problem with the build.

The problem with the ring is it's power level is high enough it doesn't feel like much of a choice when it comes to using it which in turn leads to the redundant builds or blowing up your characters entire identity.

jaws343 · June 2022

xaraan wrote: »

no

After a few days of running oakensoul I dropped it for pale order. Mostly doing stuff solo like i tend to solo my daily dungeons, world bosses, etc (And questing, but that's easy stuff)

Much better to have more passive incoming healing and have a second bar for ultimate options, more aoe/single target choices for mobs and bosses. Easier getting particular skills on your bar for passives with two bars, get more set options if you run sets that proc on a second bar, or even arena weapons. Most of the buffs from the ring you get just from using skills or potions you'd already be using anyway - I think it had just a couple extra bonuses I didn't already end up getting which didn't equal losing the healing and choices lost.

I can definitely see certain niche builds of certain classes working better with the ring than others though.

I think the most telling was yesterday I had a world boss fight in High Isle and it was the one with two bosses in the circle that spawn adds constantly. I wiped 4 times in a row with Oakensoul on (and I had funnel health going and CP healing passive with damage in, so pretty good passive healing going on). The main problem was the knock down the one boss does that's unbreakable stun - you'd be dead before it let you stand up. Chalk it up to being a potato player if it works for you, but I'm aight: Put my old build on with pale order - one shot it without breaking a sweat. It was like night and day. Granted, that's a specific example, but it was pretty glaring to me.

Mostly I was just annoyed at the lack of options having only one bar. Maybe on my templar it would be better since its just jab jab jab while doing aoe or single target. My damage was higher with the oakensoul I'll say b/c of the couple buffs it gave that I don't have normally, but it wasn't enough to make up for what I lost.

From a PVE perspective, there are a few classes that can use this extremely well, Templars and Sorcs at the top imo. Sorcs can go full heavy attack, pet build, spammable with this, and not really lose out on anything. Running Crit Surge, however redundant for the major sorcery, for the passive healing. Or even just running matriarch for heals. And templar with their passive healing off jabs, and the nature of the channel benefiting from performing as little buff maintenance as possible.

I personally will probably not use this in PVE on my sorc, outside of maybe trying out a build or two just to see. Because I am not the biggest pet fan and you kind of need to run them with this to be as effective as possible. But for PVP, I am absolutely running this. The benefits outweigh any percieved drawbacks for a PVP sorc build. I've already got the build prepped and ready to go for when I have the ring.

Ascarl · June 2022

I guess it easier to get a personal unicorn than oakensoul ring. You will probably never encounter this item in game before it gets nerfed.

fred4 · June 2022

xaraan wrote: »

I think the most telling was yesterday I had a world boss fight in High Isle and it was the one with two bosses in the circle that spawn adds constantly. I wiped 4 times in a row with Oakensoul on (and I had funnel health going and CP healing passive with damage in, so pretty good passive healing going on). The main problem was the knock down the one boss does that's unbreakable stun - you'd be dead before it let you stand up. Put my old build on with pale order - one shot it without breaking a sweat. It was like night and day. Granted, that's a specific example, but it was pretty glaring to me.

That's an interesting example to bring up, because what may have happened there is that ongoing DOTs result in ongoing heals with Pale Order. Those are extremely valuable when you have to deal with CCs. That said, you were playing magblade and IMO magblade is overrated for solo play. Swallow Soul and Sap Essence make it one of the straightfoward solo classes, but it's the squishiest out of 3 in my experience, despite the fact that Swallow Soul provides a HOT. Magplar is better and Brawler sorc leaves everything in the dust. (Oops, giving away spoilers to the OP).

A couple of things that speak against Oakensoul include the buffs that practically every class has attached to their Major Resolve skills. Templar's armor buff is also a major sustain skill, for example. On my PvP magblade, where Oakensoul works well, I nonetheless feel the loss of Siphoning Attacks. The Minor resource buffs have not been quite enough to compensate for that. This also makes itself felt in a lack of ongoing healing. I am solely dependent on Shrewd Offering now.

When you end up diluting Oakensoul's damage by building for defense or sustain, either by the sets you wear or by front-barring skills like Channeled Focus or Crit Surge, that nudges you right back to two bar builds. As another example, I'm loving the ulti-gen, but as I wanted Whirlwind as my execute on the PvP magblade, I had no room for Merciless Resolve. The end result is that I have a big-hitting skill up probably as often as before, except now it's only ever Soul Harvest and I lost the option to combo the two.

ZOS_GregoryV · June 2022

Greetings all!

After review, we have decided to move this thread to the Combat & Character Mechanics section as it seems better suited in this category.

Regards,
-Greg-

xaraan · June 2022

fred4 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I think the most telling was yesterday I had a world boss fight in High Isle and it was the one with two bosses in the circle that spawn adds constantly. I wiped 4 times in a row with Oakensoul on (and I had funnel health going and CP healing passive with damage in, so pretty good passive healing going on). The main problem was the knock down the one boss does that's unbreakable stun - you'd be dead before it let you stand up. Put my old build on with pale order - one shot it without breaking a sweat. It was like night and day. Granted, that's a specific example, but it was pretty glaring to me.

That's an interesting example to bring up, because what may have happened there is that ongoing DOTs result in ongoing heals with Pale Order. Those are extremely valuable when you have to deal with CCs. That said, you were playing magblade and IMO magblade is overrated for solo play. Swallow Soul and Sap Essence make it one of the straightfoward solo classes, but it's the squishiest out of 3 in my experience, despite the fact that Swallow Soul provides a HOT. Magplar is better and Brawler sorc leaves everything in the dust. (Oops, giving away spoilers to the OP).

A couple of things that speak against Oakensoul include the buffs that practically every class has attached to their Major Resolve skills. Templar's armor buff is also a major sustain skill, for example. On my PvP magblade, where Oakensoul works well, I nonetheless feel the loss of Siphoning Attacks. The Minor resource buffs have not been quite enough to compensate for that. This also makes itself felt in a lack of ongoing healing. I am solely dependent on Shrewd Offering now.

When you end up diluting Oakensoul's damage by building for defense or sustain, either by the sets you wear or by front-barring skills like Channeled Focus or Crit Surge, that nudges you right back to two bar builds. As another example, I'm loving the ulti-gen, but as I wanted Whirlwind as my execute on the PvP magblade, I had no room for Merciless Resolve. The end result is that I have a big-hitting skill up probably as often as before, except now it's only ever Soul Harvest and I lost the option to combo the two.

Yea, I definitely felt like it might be worth trying the ring on my templar since I can just jabs jabs everything. My Magblade seemed to either be lacking AoE or single target when stuck with one bar, where templar has jabs that do both. And yea, the passive healing from dots was making a big difference with pale order on my magblade + having more dots going b/c two bars AND having shade up to maim boss and path up for the armor buff from passive added to survive-ability as well. (And I threw on a shield for emergencies. But my point wasn't just pale order better than oakensoul, but pale-order + having two bars of skills and options were better.

Though I do think like a previous poster said, the ring could be more useful in pvp for a bigger variety of builds than pve.