Remove the need for the top 12 DPS to get loot credit.

dragonlord500 · June 2022

seriously what the heck is this fossil system still doing in ESO? Zos explain to the players why this is needed? because you angering the community with this horror movie level system.

McGamer · June 2022

I remember when ZOS used to say originally that they would never add such a mechanic, lol.

ArchMikem · June 2022

Because players who realize all they have to do to get loot is hit the Mob once and then stand there until its over, WILL do that.

fred4 · June 2022

Somewhere in the code there ix an array that can only hold 12 people.

dragonlord500 · June 2022

ArchMikem wrote: »

Because players who realize all they have to do to get loot is hit the Mob once and then stand there until its over, WILL do that.

you will find very few people doing that. even in WoW their player base always kills the enemy to get the loot regardless of the fact that they will get it in 1 hit

Kory · June 2022

Is the "top 12 DPS gets loot" even absolutely true and set in stone? I did a light attack-surprise attack several times and was able to loot and get a mythic lead from Titanclaw WB. There were dps sweats around me and groups, I was solo. I don't think I was top 12 dps with light attack-surprise attack

blktauna · June 2022

if its a rng 12 then the mutiny will seriously begin...

spartaxoxo · June 2022

It's an anti-leech mechanic basically. Although I think the dragons show it's not all that necessary.

Troodon80 · June 2022

Kory wrote: »

Is the "top 12 DPS gets loot" even absolutely true and set in stone? I did a light attack-surprise attack several times and was able to loot and get a mythic lead from Titanclaw WB. There were dps sweats around me and groups, I was solo. I don't think I was top 12 dps with light attack-surprise attack

Basically, you need to hit a minimum percentage of damage on the boss (I'm unsure what it is, some say 1% while others say 10% (but it's definitely not 10%)). More than 12 players can get loot. However, because of the way some players parse on world bosses when content initially releases or during events, one can surmise it as being just the top 12 DDs, leaving tanks and healers with absolutely nothing. Compared to dragons in Elsweyr, for example, where all you need is a light attack and you're good. Dragons can still die in less than 10 seconds during events (not even an exaggeration), so people saying that others would just stand around and do one light attack are not really seeing the full picture.

On the other hand, there are people who play with multiple accounts and if everyone could get loot just from a light attack you would probably have a lot more bot-like players farming world bosses by doing light attacks on alt accounts and then soloing the boss on their main account. That might sound silly, but there's a lot of material one can gain with deconstruction. Dragons are not so easily soloed, making it more feasible to reward everyone for even minor participation when an event is not on.

I would say something of a compromise being that upon initial release and during an event all bosses should grant a reward. Outside of that week or two week-long period, bosses observe normal loot rules.

The3sFinest · June 2022

This was changed a very long time ago.

From OneTam notes when it was changed:

In order to get loot and XP credit for killing a mob, you now only need to deal 3% of its maximum health instead of the previous 10%.

Necrotech_Master · June 2022

3% of 1.5 million hp boss is 45,000 dmg needed to be done (most experienced players could probably do this in 2 attacks)

dragons i think fall under the category of dolmens, and they reward loot as long as you dealt any dmg whatsoever

Troodon80 · June 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

3% of 1.5 million hp boss is 45,000 dmg needed to be done (most experienced players could probably do this in 2 attacks)

dragons i think fall under the category of dolmens, and they reward loot as long as you dealt any dmg whatsoever

Exception: latest content isn't 1.5m per boss. It's 2.5m~3m. Which is around 70k minimum damage you need to do.

As a tank you're doing maybe 4k-6k per attack (lucky crits can be more). If a boss dies in 10 seconds, you're out of luck. This release being somewhat of an exception as some world bosses were bugged and wouldn't respawn after dying, so people haven't been farming them as much as they usually do with chapters on release.

MasterSpatula · June 2022

There's gotta be a way to prevent leeching activity without punishing tanks. It's 2022. Devs have to be smart enough to solve this dilemma.

Rishikesa108 · June 2022

When I go with my guild mates in IC farming bosses... sometime I use my healer character... Those times I often miss the loot: it's so clear, a healer doesn't do damage !!! And so he doesn't deserve the loot...
I don't think this is fair...

FlopsyPrince · June 2022

It is really annoying to fight a WB and get no loot because you killed adds rather than the boss itself, especially when others burn down the boss very quickly!

HanYolo · June 2022

MasterSpatula wrote: »

There's gotta be a way to prevent leeching activity without punishing tanks. It's 2022. Devs have to be smart enough to solve this dilemma.

Why the *** would you ever use a tank for anything other than tanking dungeons and raids? Tanks are absolutely useless for anything but that. If you encounter an actvity that requires damage dont complain because a tank doesnt deal damage.

Ragnarok0130 · June 2022

HanYolo wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

There's gotta be a way to prevent leeching activity without punishing tanks. It's 2022. Devs have to be smart enough to solve this dilemma.

Why the *** would you ever use a tank for anything other than tanking dungeons and raids? Tanks are absolutely useless for anything but that. If you encounter an actvity that requires damage dont complain because a tank doesnt deal damage.

Especially since we have the free armory system now so we’re no longer locked into a single spec. Do your questing on a dps or hybrid build and then activate your tank build when you run group content.

Tenthirty2 · June 2022

I thought I'd try farming Titanclaw with my magsorc for a bit.
When I arrived there was maybe 12-18 ppl there, didnt feel like that many tbh.
Boss spawned, I dropped a flame wall, meteor ult, boss was dead. Meteor felt a bit late I thought.
No loot
Second time, noticeably less player than before, Ult hit right away, couple spells and HA...
Dead crab, no loot.

Decided I wanted to keep my will to live so moved on to other stuff lol.

JimT722 · June 2022

I tried day one. no luck. There was probably 50 people.

Tried yesterday. There was maybe 10 people. Boss died. Got loot which had the lead. First try. It will get easier.

Tommy_The_Gun · June 2022

Very unfair & archaic system that should have been scrapped with One Tamriel Update. It is basically a "left over" system from the times when each zone had different level and dropped gear of different levels. The zones back then were progressively more difficult. The whole "top 12" gets the loot was basically a "safety mechanism" so that low level players would not go to higher level zones to get better gear.

Right now this system is more harmful than helpful. It should have been removed or at least altered long time ago.

Note: I was doing around 20 - 30K damage to that boss & still no loot. By any means it was not leaching. The ones who get the loot for the most part are basically um... I guess afk macro bots. Later on I realized that my build that is optimized for solo play (tanky dps) won't gonna cut it. So I literally re-made it into the most glass canon dps I could, with 6K weapon damage. You think that it helped much ? Of course not. I only got the loot because I got lucky when I logged in around 8 am, when there was only 20 people at the boss instead of 50 pet sorcs.

jaws343 · June 2022

Tenthirty2 wrote: »

I thought I'd try farming Titanclaw with my magsorc for a bit.
When I arrived there was maybe 12-18 ppl there, didnt feel like that many tbh.
Boss spawned, I dropped a flame wall, meteor ult, boss was dead. Meteor felt a bit late I thought.
No loot
Second time, noticeably less player than before, Ult hit right away, couple spells and HA...
Dead crab, no loot.

Decided I wanted to keep my will to live so moved on to other stuff lol.

Meteor is usually not the best ult for mass boss farm scenarios. It requires a target to cast, so you cannot use it until after the boss spawns. It also has travel time, so it is more likely to hit after the boss is dead already.

Best bet for ult is going to be something like destro ult, where you can cast instantly, or just before the spawn.

Or, on sorc, you can even do the overload heavy attack after laying down AOEs. Since you can pre-cast that to load the action, you can immediately start doing damage with it. Personally though, I use destro ult in these situations and rarely miss out on loot.

Dragonlord573 · June 2022

The system nonetheless is a middle finger to tanks and healers. How are we supposed to compete with people doing 10x our damage?

The3sFinest · June 2022

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Very unfair & archaic system that should have been scrapped with One Tamriel Update. It is basically a "left over" system from the times when each zone had different level and dropped gear of different levels. The zones back then were progressively more difficult. The whole "top 12" gets the loot was basically a "safety mechanism" so that low level players would not go to higher level zones to get better gear.

Right now this system is more harmful than helpful. It should have been removed or at least altered long time ago.

It was scrapped, or what it used to be was scrapped, as mentioned in my post above. There is no "only top 12 gets loot" rule.

Holycannoli · June 2022

The3sFinest wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Very unfair & archaic system that should have been scrapped with One Tamriel Update. It is basically a "left over" system from the times when each zone had different level and dropped gear of different levels. The zones back then were progressively more difficult. The whole "top 12" gets the loot was basically a "safety mechanism" so that low level players would not go to higher level zones to get better gear.

Right now this system is more harmful than helpful. It should have been removed or at least altered long time ago.

It was scrapped, or what it used to be was scrapped, as mentioned in my post above. There is no "only top 12 gets loot" rule.

When was it scrapped? It's good news if true. Farming the boss in Imperial City sewers was a hit-or-miss affair with so many people and only 12 at a time getting loot.

lolvrangsinn · June 2022

At the crab boss in Stormhaven, I repeatedly got to loot the crab (until I got the lead), despite having lower DPS than other people were claiming they had. I would get anywhere from 22-34k according to CMX (higher end when my incap was up). There were people claiming they had higher numbers than me and not getting loot. So either they were lying or cmx was lying or it's not true that only top 12 get. I'm wonder if it's the first 12 who get a hit in? I did lay down a heck ton of AOE's.

belial5221_ESO · June 2022

If you kill the boss and he spawns too fast like less than 8 minutes and you kill again,you prob won't get loot,even at #1 dps.There's a cooldown on looting bosses also,I tihnk it's 8+ minutes.Sometimes bosses spawn less than that when new ppl arrive.So it is still top 12 dps/hps doing 3%+ damage,but if you looted,there's cooldown before another loot about 8-10 minutes I tihnk.

The top 12 thing was added to kep botters/multiaccts idling and ppl leeching loot without doing anything but one hit.It's a game,play it,or get nothing.

jaws343 · June 2022

belial5221_ESO wrote: »

If you kill the boss and he spawns too fast like less than 8 minutes and you kill again,you prob won't get loot,even at #1 dps.There's a cooldown on looting bosses also,I tihnk it's 8+ minutes.Sometimes bosses spawn less than that when new ppl arrive.So it is still top 12 dps/hps doing 3%+ damage,but if you looted,there's cooldown before another loot about 8-10 minutes I tihnk.

The top 12 thing was added to kep botters/multiaccts idling and ppl leeching loot without doing anything but one hit.It's a game,play it,or get nothing.

The cooldown is only like 3 minutes.

During some events, we will use the crow momento that calls the crows to you, since that has a 3 minute timer, and when it runs out, you can get boss loot again.

Troodon80 · June 2022

HanYolo wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

There's gotta be a way to prevent leeching activity without punishing tanks. It's 2022. Devs have to be smart enough to solve this dilemma.

Why the *** would you ever use a tank for anything other than tanking dungeons and raids? Tanks are absolutely useless for anything but that. If you encounter an actvity that requires damage dont complain because a tank doesnt deal damage.

The community: "We want more tanks in our group content." (and before you say it, world bosses are technically intended to be group content)
The community: "If you're a tank shut up and stop complaining."

The general disrespect to support roles from some parts of the community is immense, yet people wonder why there's a shortage. I'm well aware that the option to (respec) and play more damage is there. I do that. It's easy with the armoury system. However, you're missing two key points here.

Play how you want.
Loot shouldn't be only for "experienced" players.

I shouldn't need to explain to anyone that the average skill level in ESO is incredibly low, with numbers for average DPS being somewhere in the region of 10k DPS for damage dealing players and anyone doing random dungeons can generally attest to this (or less DPS) skill gap. So it's not just tanks who are affected, and the general misconception that it's only the top 12 players doing the most damage extends to those players as well.

FeedbackOnly · June 2022

Kory wrote: »

Is the "top 12 DPS gets loot" even absolutely true and set in stone? I did a light attack-surprise attack several times and was able to loot and get a mythic lead from Titanclaw WB. There were dps sweats around me and groups, I was solo. I don't think I was top 12 dps with light attack-surprise attack

There's some other factors because I have won a spot in top 12 with just healing too

jaws343 · June 2022

Troodon80 wrote: »

HanYolo wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

There's gotta be a way to prevent leeching activity without punishing tanks. It's 2022. Devs have to be smart enough to solve this dilemma.

Why the *** would you ever use a tank for anything other than tanking dungeons and raids? Tanks are absolutely useless for anything but that. If you encounter an actvity that requires damage dont complain because a tank doesnt deal damage.

The community: "We want more tanks in our group content." (and before you say it, world bosses are technically intended to be group content)
The community: "If you're a tank shut up and stop complaining."

The general disrespect to support roles from some parts of the community is immense, yet people wonder why there's a shortage. I'm well aware that the option to (respec) and play more damage is there. I do that. It's easy with the armoury system. However, you're missing two key points here.
Play how you want.

Loot shouldn't be only for "experienced" players.

I shouldn't need to explain to anyone that the average skill level in ESO is incredibly low, with numbers for average DPS being somewhere in the region of 10k DPS for damage dealing players and anyone doing random dungeons can generally attest to this (or less DPS) skill gap. So it's not just tanks who are affected, and the general misconception that it's only the top 12 players doing the most damage extends to those players as well.

The disrespect is almost never pointed at support roles in actual group content like dungeons or trials.

It is mostly directed at the support role players who refuse to adjust their builds for overland or solo content, and then complain when they cannot "compete" on the same level with players running more solo oriented builds.

Of course your group oriented, support tank, should be unable to do sufficient damage to a world boss, or pass a DPS check in a solo arena, it's a group support build. Change the build for the content you are trying to do.

belial5221_ESO · June 2022

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

There's some other factors because I have won a spot in top 12 with just healing too

I said it in another post,it's top 12 dps/hps,so if you heal more than a dps does damage you are above them.
example: you heal 500k total,and someone damages 450k total by end,then you get spot above em.

So it goes total damage/heal done,not dps average when we say top dps/hps gets loot.Still have to get 3%+ damage done on the boss also.So 5m boss,you gotta do minimum 150k damage total for a chance at loot,AND then get in top 12 total damage done.So drop heavy duty ULT first.