FluffyBird wrote: »

SpiralStorm4 wrote: »

The fact which I even offer hugs to start with should be an indicator of the kind of husband and father I would be to a very lucky lady and our children.

That may be just me, but that's a bit creepy

I can see how that would make others uncomfortable. Random players who are only connected by the fact that they joined the same guild do not need to know such personal details about each other.

I used to work with a woman who the very first time we met she disclosed a lot of personal facts about herself and wanted to hug me and acted like we were best friends. She came on way too strong and it made me very uncomfortable. I dealt with it by avoiding her and finding reasons to leave if she started a conversation.

Coming on too fast will scare others away. And many people just do not want hugs even after they get to know you.

DagenHawk wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

DagenHawk wrote: »

SpiralStorm4 wrote: »

And a fair salutations to everyone here tonight!

I've come back to pose one question which I feel is rather important, right now...During the past couple years I've been playing The Elder Scrolls Online, I've been trying to establish a good standing within a few of the many player-made guilds one can join in the game. Unfortunately, most of the would-be 'leaders' of those guilds ended up dropping their ban hammers down onto my virtual head. And usually, without any prior warning or notice to me, whatsoever! So, here's my question: Has anyone else here been unceremoniously booted out of any of the guilds they joined up with? And if so, did any of their higher-ups contact you and explain the reasons behind banning you? I really would like to find out what in-game/online 'crimes' I've supposedly committed recently, to warrant being punished with an automatic ban and block from 3 of these guilds, which I might as well start referring to as 'clans'.

Anyone here who happens to read up on this topic may now voice their thoughts on it.

This community as a whole is one of if not the most welcoming community in MMO's period...that being said...It's hard to find a decent guild, I have heard horror stories about how some guilds treat their members and they do so because, the guilds understand that you can not sell competitively without them and they take advantage of that.

If their were Auction Houses the guilds would become less toxic overall.

I think that enough people are complaining about it that ZoS should at least look into it.

Except you don't have to stay and take the bad treatment. There are many guilds out there that don't abuse their members, and don't expect players to sell a billion gold every day. There are many social guilds that get traders. I'm not sure what you mean by "competitively"; unless you're doing Elder Traders Online [trading IS the game] as long as items sell and you get the gold, it works. If you actually *want* to make a billion gold a day, well, people are going to stress a lot.

No you don't have to stay, you also don't have to play the game or practice hygiene or pay your taxes...

All of these pro guild traders always say what you are saying funny thing is folks keep going from guild to guild to guild and they keep ending up with variations of the same thing.

Of Course some people will do anything to keep the current situation, it allows for them to live out fantasies of making billions while treating the masses like crap.


This issue isn't going to go away....more and more people want an alternative.

"Pro" trade guilds. Yes, if you want to do high volume high price then the guild is going to expect dues, and minimum sales and constantly keeping your slots filled because they want to keep their prime trading spot. As I said, the players who enjoy Elder Traders Online more than pvp, pve, battlegrounds, trials or anything else.

I have one trading guild, and 4 social guilds. My trading guild always has a trader, thanks to a great guildmaster. My social guilds have a trader 99% of the time; at the moment, 3 of the 4 do. None have dues or minimum sales. My trading guild has a voluntary raffle every week; you decide how many tickets, if any, you want. You don't get kicked for not selling. No one tells you what your prices should be. I've never joined a high pressure high sales guild because I sell once in a while, when I feel like bothering.

Since I'm not interested in running a guild, I have no fantasies of treating other players like crap by making a hardcore trading is life guild. I also have no interest in making billions. Long ago at early release I set a pie-in-the-sky amount for what I wanted in my bank. I made it, finally; if I'd have actually put some effort into it I'd have done it a long time ago, but eh, I made it. Nothing I need gold for over that, so I'm donating to my guilds, buying mats to craft low level stuff for my guildmates, and sometimes finding a random new player and giving them 50 or 100k for inventory/bank space.....

I gotta say, the more replies I read to this from the OP, the more I'm thinking they were indeed the issue.

You seem to take issue with people in perceived positions of authority, and it really shows in how you talk about guild leaders in general.

You seem to think we're all megalomaniac cult leaders, or want to be.

And the retellings of your conversations with guild leaders seems.. very biased. If your version of events is to be believed than every single guild you've been in was ran by egotistical adult sized children who couldn't handle any one stepping out of line.

Guilds just simply do not last when they're ran that way. They can't survive like that.

People would run from a guild like it's a burning house if the management acts like that.

I'm not saying it can't happen. I just have a hard time believing you managed to find guild, after guild, after guild that acted that way and somehow it's not because of your actions or attitude within the guilds.

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

My favorite reason for being banned was saying "WTB something to do" and the guild leader messages me and says that they don't sell runs there and immediately banned me lol

See now that, I believe that happened lol

I have been kicked from a guild just once in all the time I played this game. An in-game friend of mine had said something in chat that was not outrageous but still something where he should have bitten his tongue and kept his thoughts to himself. The other person kind of baited him. But still, he should have just stayed silent.

I was not online and heard about the whole thing later, and saw screenshots of everything. Anyway, this person, my friend, who had been a member of this guild for years, was kicked unceremoniously. It was very heavy-handed. This wasn't a rabble-rousing newcomer. This was a friend. And the person who was soooo offended was the rabble-rouser from my point of view. They were constantly claiming offense to something or another and starting spats in chat. IMHO, you stick by your friend, even if they are having a bad day and say something they maybe should not have said. You talk about it with them privately, if you feel a need to address it so that it doesn't happen again.

Anyway, after this happened, when I was still a member of this guild (because it was a trade guild, and I still had a lot of listings that had not expired), I said something sympathetic to the person who got kicked in his own private discord. Not in guild chat and not in the guild discord. Apparently, there was a mole, and I got kicked from the guild just for not fully 100% supporting the GM in a private discord space. And I didn't badmouth anyone,. I said something along the lines of, "Wow, this whole situation really sucks." And it turned out later the mole was not really a "mole." They had screen capped my comment and sent it to the GM in the officer chat in the guild discord just to say, look, this is what some of our members think. And the GM saw the need to just get rid of anyone who was not on her side.

When something like that happens in-game, it can be a blow initially, because guilds are designed to be a place to socialize. At their best, you do make "friends," at least as much as you can without meeting someone in person. And I had just donated >15m in gold to that guild via a bunch of high value items I had stored up.

There is nothing to do except let it go and understand that if such a thing could happen--if the situation was handled that badly--would you really want to stick around anyway? Nope, best to move on. This was a few years ago now, and in hindsight, it was all for the best.

I was in another guild for a while that I quit for various reasons. This was an end-game raid guild. The GM would kick anyone he just didn't like for whatever reason. He was a thorny personality.

I've noticed that in many of the best guilds, GMs take a fairly aloof approach and manage things behind the scenes. I think this helps prevent things from devolving into a personality conflict.

SilverBride wrote: »

There are a lot of assumptions that the guild leaders were all at fault, but I don't believe that to be true. I don't think anyone was at fault or did anything wrong. From the things the OP stated I just believe he came on too strong and too personal and it made others uncomfortable.

I would encourage the OP to not give up and just try to tone things down in the future and see if he is more well received.

Yea I may have been too harsh saying OP was for sure the issue, but I do stand by that I don't believe every single guild they joined was just led by mean people who wanted to dominate their guild.

Their retelling of events does come off as having an issue with authority though, and I will stand by that as well.

But I second the advice, keep trying. You'll find a guild that'll take you eventually.

averyfarmanb14_ESO wrote: »

I can't relate - eight years in game, never been kicked from a guild. Only ever joined two guilds - the first one passed away quietly (former players from our SWTOR guild), second guild's going strong & friendly as heck.

"Toxic community?" I don't see it, although that's pure anecdote and can be taken as such.

I'd say as far as MMOs go, outside of a certain group of people freaking out about a certain month for celebrating other people, ESO has an amazing community.

Obviously can't all be perfect, but it tends to skew a bit older than most online game in my experience, and I think that goes a long way to a better general attitude of maturity and respect.

The game has ALWAYS had trolls and a worse community than other MMOs. That being said there are a lot of good people also, it's not hard to use the block button on a user. So tired of people crying about people being "toxic" in gaming. Gaming has ALWAYS been "toxic" it's called competition and gaming brings that out in people or in anything competative.

FluffyBird wrote: »

SpiralStorm4 wrote: »

The fact which I even offer hugs to start with should be an indicator of the kind of husband and father I would be to a very lucky lady and our children.

That may be just me, but that's a bit creepy

You aren't the only one. It's not the hugs on their own that raises red flags, but the hugs as an expression of their desirability as a husband and father to a very lucky lady/eventual kids.

I dunno, maybe OP is cheerfully oblivious to how much that sounds like a pickup artist.

But I don't join guilds as a dating service. Moreover, lots of female gamers (or female-presenting gamers, due to their name or character design) have experiences with being subtly or not so subtly propositioned by male gamers such that they are pretty sensitive to the vibes when someone's doing a "nice thing" for them with strings attached. Again, it's kind of a pickup artist/nice guy(TM) thing.

Now, I have no way of knowing the OP's intentions. I get it; not everyone is good at "reading the room" and knowing what is and isn't appropriate behavior.

So I'll assume that the OP is well-intentioned and cheerfully oblivious to the wider context of what many female gamers deal with, and offer some advice from my perspective as a former Guild Officer: guild chat isn't an appropriate place for wife-hunting, flirting, or demonstrating what a desirable husband/father you'd be.

To be honest, its just a tad bit of elitism to think the toxicity is just toward you.

ESO is a Toxicity that encompasses All, regardless of any other factors. We are All treated Toxic-equally.

GM's can boot anyone they want for any reason. You gotta' find your people.