Zone Chat During Pride Month

VaranisArano · June 2022

Didgerion wrote: »

essi2 wrote: »

/zone in the starter zones should just be removed, it has always been a cesspool.

ZOS needs to get more proactive with monitoring ingame chat

It would be too expensive to moderate every zone chat.
What they actually need is to start giving players the mod roles, there are a lot of loyal players out there that consistently participate in beta-testing, or players that run big and active guilds, I'm sure such players can be trusted the power of temporary silencing the players in the zone chat. The harm of miss-silencing someone is way lower than letting the hate spread.

That's a moderation nightmare waiting to happen. Even on a guild level, I've watched long-term, loyal players go power-mad once they got an officer position. Players-turned mods have the potential to cause a lot of problems for the company because they effectively represent the company without actually working for the company. I'm not thrilled at the idea of doing a Mod's job without getting a Mod's pay, either.

Far better to stick with the current system where players report bad behavior and block the offender. The Mods review it later.

However, I wonder if ZOS has considered having a Moderator sit in on zone chats in hot zones. For example, if there's been a rash of reports in PC/NA Stonefalls instances, maybe they have a Gamemaster sit in on those instances for a while long enough to nuke the offenders and make the point that when ZOS wants to take action, they can.

They could set a threshold where they don't need to have a moderator watching every zone all the time, but once the reports start rolling in, I think it might make sense to have someone who can do spot checks on the problem areas.

freespirit · June 2022

I have watched this thread over the past 24hrs with increasing amounts of dismay!!

Maybe I should have stood up for the OP before but there was way too much argument going on so I watched from a distance....

However now the thread has been moderated and is probably on their radar I would like to share a story!

I am a 59yr old straight female, many, many years ago due to family issues I ended up homeless, the person who stood up for me and took care of me was an openly gay man called Bruce.... he stepped in and helped me when nobody else did!!

At that time he was frequently abused for being "out" BUT he saved me and I will be forever grateful.

He was the first "gay" person I met and whilst "gay" may not be the most accepted term, I loved him so much and continue to love the LGBTQ too this day!!

Stand up and be proud!!

Didgerion · June 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

essi2 wrote: »

/zone in the starter zones should just be removed, it has always been a cesspool.

ZOS needs to get more proactive with monitoring ingame chat

It would be too expensive to moderate every zone chat.
What they actually need is to start giving players the mod roles, there are a lot of loyal players out there that consistently participate in beta-testing, or players that run big and active guilds, I'm sure such players can be trusted the power of temporary silencing the players in the zone chat. The harm of miss-silencing someone is way lower than letting the hate spread.

That's a moderation nightmare waiting to happen. Even on a guild level, I've watched long-term, loyal players go power-mad once they got an officer position. Players-turned mods have the potential to cause a lot of problems for the company because they effectively represent the company without actually working for the company. I'm not thrilled at the idea of doing a Mod's job without getting a Mod's pay, either.

Far better to stick with the current system where players report bad behavior and block the offender. The Mods review it later.

However, I wonder if ZOS has considered having a Moderator sit in on zone chats in hot zones. For example, if there's been a rash of reports in PC/NA Stonefalls instances, maybe they have a Gamemaster sit in on those instances for a while long enough to nuke the offenders and make the point that when ZOS wants to take action, they can.

They could set a threshold where they don't need to have a moderator watching every zone all the time, but once the reports start rolling in, I think it might make sense to have someone who can do spot checks on the problem areas.

Not saying to give players the whole mod toolkit, just the silencing role. If it is getting abused then just remove the role.

katanagirl1 · June 2022

SainguinKrist wrote: »

KalevaLaine wrote: »

I'm sorry that this is happening to you and your beloved, friends, guild mates or call it whatever.

I would totally agree to screenshot it and report this to the costumer service. Hope thy will react and ban this idiot from the game, and if not, they deserve a social ban.

Reminds me on a post that day where the USMC posted a pride month related picture on social media. The comments... Just hell.

That's why Pride matters. We have to be out and open until hate like that ends.

It's happening, it's just gonna take some more time.

I have a legitimate question, as someone who really doesn’t mind whether one is gay or not, but just how far can someone who is “open” about that go? I have been forced to partake in some really disgusting comments about intimate activities in zone text chat, which I cannot turn off on console without missing guild text chat.

I don’t share my bedroom activities so I am not keen to hear about others’ explicit acts.

No judgment here, no hate.

Please don’t moderate me, I am sure others would like to know. It can go the other way, too

Heartrage · June 2022

@katanagirl1
I think we can all agree that /z and /g should have some limit on how sexual/crude discussions get. Everyone doesn’t need to know about the hardcore fetish Erp going on in their zone. However, just stating whichever way you swing is not a problem.

That said, I don’t know what the lgbt discussions that triggered the bigots were. However, even if they were way out of order and went far beyond what is and should be socially acceptable, attacking the entire lgbt group for the discussion of a handful of people is wrong.

ArchMikem · June 2022

SainguinKrist wrote: »

xgoku1 wrote: »

That sounds awful. What platform is this?

The only thing you can do is report them. Try not to engage, take screenshots of the convo.

Hate speech violates ToS and they're gonna get a permaban.

@ZOS_Kevin please look into this?

PC NA.

I know it's common advice not to engage, but I feel like not engaging is leaving these people completely unchallenged and it just emboldens them.

Sometimes you have to stand up to such blatant hate speech.

Engaging them is what enables them. You're giving them what they want, a reaction.

WiseSky · June 2022

Well best way to deal with Zone Chat being crazy is:

1. Turn it off
2. Start giving out free items to the people that guess your Number from 1 to 10. The chat starts getting spammed by numbers and usually the fire dies down. It's a small price to pay for Zone peace

Northwold · June 2022

Totally outside where the thread went later in the day, but just a big thank you to the mods.

That was a long, sensitive thread to moderate and you managed to get it done in a way that still preserved the sense of what people had been saying on what is obviously an emotive subject, while removing the abusive bits. It would have been so much easier for you just to delete the thread or to delete messages and replies wholesale and that is not what you did.

Respect.

TaSheen · June 2022

Northwold wrote: »

Totally outside where the thread went later in the day, but just a big thank you to the mods.

That was a long, sensitive thread to moderate and you managed to get it done in a way that still preserved the sense of what people had been saying on what is obviously an emotive subject, while removing the abusive bits. It would have been so much easier for you just to delete the thread or to delete messages and replies wholesale and that is not what you did.

Respect.

Agree.

VaranisArano · June 2022

katanagirl1 wrote: »

SainguinKrist wrote: »

KalevaLaine wrote: »

I'm sorry that this is happening to you and your beloved, friends, guild mates or call it whatever.

I would totally agree to screenshot it and report this to the costumer service. Hope thy will react and ban this idiot from the game, and if not, they deserve a social ban.

Reminds me on a post that day where the USMC posted a pride month related picture on social media. The comments... Just hell.

That's why Pride matters. We have to be out and open until hate like that ends.

It's happening, it's just gonna take some more time.

I have a legitimate question, as someone who really doesn’t mind whether one is gay or not, but just how far can someone who is “open” about that go? I have been forced to partake in some really disgusting comments about intimate activities in zone text chat, which I cannot turn off on console without missing guild text chat.

I don’t share my bedroom activities so I am not keen to hear about others’ explicit acts.

No judgment here, no hate.

Please don’t moderate me, I am sure others would like to know. It can go the other way, too

Sexually explicit content, straight or otherwise, is prohibited by the Code of Conduct we all agreed to.

So if you see something you deem sexually explicit, by all means, report.

However, I've noticed a persistent conflation whereby LGBT+ people talking about being LGBT+ is treated as sexually explicit by people who don't want to hear it, whereas the equivalent conversation by straight folks would not be.

Maybe that's not what you meant at all, but since we've seen some examples of that thought process here on this thread, I figured it was worth clarifying.

TiaFrye · June 2022

Last thing I expected in this thread is High Isle spoilers... Something I would've liked to discover myself while bonding with a character.

Iselin wrote: »

(and Isobel in case yo don't know yet, likes girls so non-heteresexual NPCs are explicity supported by ZOS and have always been, now even one of the companions.)

Be mindful next time, please. At least two weeks from release and even better by using spoiler tag, thank you.

TaSheen · June 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

SainguinKrist wrote: »

KalevaLaine wrote: »

I'm sorry that this is happening to you and your beloved, friends, guild mates or call it whatever.

I would totally agree to screenshot it and report this to the costumer service. Hope thy will react and ban this idiot from the game, and if not, they deserve a social ban.

Reminds me on a post that day where the USMC posted a pride month related picture on social media. The comments... Just hell.

That's why Pride matters. We have to be out and open until hate like that ends.

It's happening, it's just gonna take some more time.

I have a legitimate question, as someone who really doesn’t mind whether one is gay or not, but just how far can someone who is “open” about that go? I have been forced to partake in some really disgusting comments about intimate activities in zone text chat, which I cannot turn off on console without missing guild text chat.

I don’t share my bedroom activities so I am not keen to hear about others’ explicit acts.

No judgment here, no hate.

Please don’t moderate me, I am sure others would like to know. It can go the other way, too

Sexually explicit content, straight or otherwise, is prohibited by the Code of Conduct we all agreed to.

So if you see something you deem sexually explicit, by all means, report.

However, I've noticed a persistent conflation whereby LGBT+ people talking about being LGBT+ is treated as sexually explicit by people who don't want to hear it, whereas the equivalent conversation by straight folks would not be.

Maybe that's not what you meant at all, but since we've seen some examples of that thought process here on this thread, I figured it was worth clarifying.

Again, agreed.

ZOS_Hadeostry · June 2022

Greetings,

After removing some unnecessary off-topic as well as posts that can be seen violating Community Rules for Baiting and Harassment, we would like everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand, civil, and constructive.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here

xgoku1 · June 2022

[snip]

We don't know what triggered hate on the zone chat. I don't see where they said they were discussing their sexuality to strangers?

You know, it's probably not like OP went around saying "guys look at me, it's great being gay, you should try it".

I assume what happened is they advertised their guild in zone chat, which said its LGBT friendly and they received hate. It's not like it takes much to trigger bigots, this thread is living proof

[edited to remove quote]

xgoku1 · June 2022

LurgidBean wrote: »

Could someone please point me to where they celebrate the month of Midyear as Pride Month in Tamriel?

I hate this smug comment.

You know Pelinal Whitestrake was gay, right? The CEO of Midyear Mayhem started his PvP runs because his male lover was killed by Ayleids.

Please don't use lore to justify harassment to players

katanagirl1 · June 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

SainguinKrist wrote: »

KalevaLaine wrote: »

I'm sorry that this is happening to you and your beloved, friends, guild mates or call it whatever.

I would totally agree to screenshot it and report this to the costumer service. Hope thy will react and ban this idiot from the game, and if not, they deserve a social ban.

Reminds me on a post that day where the USMC posted a pride month related picture on social media. The comments... Just hell.

That's why Pride matters. We have to be out and open until hate like that ends.

It's happening, it's just gonna take some more time.

I have a legitimate question, as someone who really doesn’t mind whether one is gay or not, but just how far can someone who is “open” about that go? I have been forced to partake in some really disgusting comments about intimate activities in zone text chat, which I cannot turn off on console without missing guild text chat.

I don’t share my bedroom activities so I am not keen to hear about others’ explicit acts.

No judgment here, no hate.

Please don’t moderate me, I am sure others would like to know. It can go the other way, too

Sexually explicit content, straight or otherwise, is prohibited by the Code of Conduct we all agreed to.

So if you see something you deem sexually explicit, by all means, report.

However, I've noticed a persistent conflation whereby LGBT+ people talking about being LGBT+ is treated as sexually explicit by people who don't want to hear it, whereas the equivalent conversation by straight folks would not be.

Maybe that's not what you meant at all, but since we've seen some examples of that thought process here on this thread, I figured it was worth clarifying.

No that’s not it at all. While suggestive comments from NPCs are often funny, hearing real life people’s explicit, personal, detailed comments, regardless of their orientation, I feel are not appropriate. I don’t think anyone reports this stuff in zone chat, though. I mean, it’s either going nowhere or it could backfire on you.

Like many others, I am there to play the game. I really don’t understand why I get such detailed info about people whom I don’t even know their real life names. This is such a heated issue, both sides feel justified to say whatever they want and there is no adult supervision. It’s almost like talking religion or politics in zone chat.

JavaRen · June 2022

I think ZOS needs to brag more about the award that ESO got from GLAAD. Not to talk themselves up (though they do deserve the praise), but to remind certain portions of the player base where the powers that be stand on these issues.

Beilin_Balreis_Colcan · June 2022

TaSheen wrote: »

Deter1UK wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

This month specifically I expect and welcome members of the community to identify their preference in chat, with pride.

And I say this as an old hetero male.

This old hetro male seconds that sentiment!

All the Guilds I am in are LGB++ friendly - I would not be in one that was not (PC EU)

As an older hetero female, I also agree with the sentiment. Happy Pride all!

Same here, I have no tolerance for intolerance (excuse the pun). People should be allowed to be themselves.

ApoAlaia · June 2022

VaranisArano wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

SainguinKrist wrote: »

KalevaLaine wrote: »

I'm sorry that this is happening to you and your beloved, friends, guild mates or call it whatever.

I would totally agree to screenshot it and report this to the costumer service. Hope thy will react and ban this idiot from the game, and if not, they deserve a social ban.

Reminds me on a post that day where the USMC posted a pride month related picture on social media. The comments... Just hell.

That's why Pride matters. We have to be out and open until hate like that ends.

It's happening, it's just gonna take some more time.

I have a legitimate question, as someone who really doesn’t mind whether one is gay or not, but just how far can someone who is “open” about that go? I have been forced to partake in some really disgusting comments about intimate activities in zone text chat, which I cannot turn off on console without missing guild text chat.

I don’t share my bedroom activities so I am not keen to hear about others’ explicit acts.

No judgment here, no hate.

Please don’t moderate me, I am sure others would like to know. It can go the other way, too

Sexually explicit content, straight or otherwise, is prohibited by the Code of Conduct we all agreed to.

So if you see something you deem sexually explicit, by all means, report.

However, I've noticed a persistent conflation whereby LGBT+ people talking about being LGBT+ is treated as sexually explicit by people who don't want to hear it, whereas the equivalent conversation by straight folks would not be.

Maybe that's not what you meant at all, but since we've seen some examples of that thought process here on this thread, I figured it was worth clarifying.

In one unfortunate instance I was directly exposed to all it took for the dreaded 'I don't mind people being gay but' incantation to be invoked (and the subsequent ugliness to ensue) was Paul [name changed] saying in VC 'hey guys need a minute husband is calling'...

That is how 'explicit' the 'trigger' needs to be.

BretonMage · June 2022

ArchMikem wrote: »

SainguinKrist wrote: »

xgoku1 wrote: »

That sounds awful. What platform is this?

The only thing you can do is report them. Try not to engage, take screenshots of the convo.

Hate speech violates ToS and they're gonna get a permaban.

@ZOS_Kevin please look into this?

PC NA.

I know it's common advice not to engage, but I feel like not engaging is leaving these people completely unchallenged and it just emboldens them.

Sometimes you have to stand up to such blatant hate speech.

Engaging them is what enables them. You're giving them what they want, a reaction.

I'm no psychologist, but perhaps the best reaction we can give them is a simple, "You've been reported. Have a nice day."

thorwyn · June 2022

I really don’t understand why I get such detailed info about people whom I don’t even know their real life names.

I will never understand why people care?
Like you said, you don't even know those people. You are not involved in the conversation. You don't see their real faces. You don't even see their ingame characters. All you see is a few lines of text in a chatbox and that's it.
It's like sitting in a train and listening to random people while reading the newspapers. They are not talking to me, so it's none of my business.
If people are breaking the TOS in chat, take a screenshot and report them. If not, ignore it.

Sidereum · June 2022

Happy Pride Month, I love you all, and I wish you all a safe and authentic life.

guarstompemoji · June 2022

ApoAlaia wrote: »

In one unfortunate instance I was directly exposed to all it took for the dreaded 'I don't mind people being gay but' incantation to be invoked (and the subsequent ugliness to ensue) was Paul [name changed] saying in VC 'hey guys need a minute husband is calling'...

That is how 'explicit' the 'trigger' needs to be.

This.

Gatekeeping and hatred is exactly that. It may be attempted to be cloaked in pretty words, but that is what it is.

Speaking up to support someone who is being harassed, bullied--one need not call out the bigot--supports them, shows love, and lets the bigot know that they're in a toxic and hateful minority.

Ways to speak up are: "Oh, cool! I hope the call goes well; say hi for us!" Or, "Yeah, I get that! Family's important!" ...etc. Be social, be positive. Drown the hate out with love and support...then report it.

The plugin, pChat, can help capture text--but don't forget to screencap, too.

Narvuntien · June 2022

Remember that the Gods of Tamerial have no quarrel with the LGBT+ community.

Mara is the goddess of love and doesn't care what form it takes.

As for the Trans community, there is a soul and body duality in Tamerialic metaphysics, and transformation of the body is common not exactly accepted unless you are an argonian (lizards into trees and vice versa) but common. The idea that the soul exists separate from the body and that perhaps a mismatch of body and soul could cause issues is not unknown to the sages of tamerial.

BretonMage · June 2022

guarstompemoji wrote: »

Speaking up to support someone who is being harassed, bullied--one need not call out the bigot--supports them, shows love, and lets the bigot know that they're in a toxic and hateful minority.

Ways to speak up are: "Oh, cool! I hope the call goes well; say hi for us!" Or, "Yeah, I get that! Family's important!" ...etc. Be social, be positive. Drown the hate out with love and support...then report it.

Yes, you're absolutely right, I had overlooked that important aspect.

guarstompemoji · June 2022

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I have a legitimate question, as someone who really doesn’t mind whether one is gay or not, but just how far can someone who is “open” about that go? I have been forced to partake in some really disgusting comments about intimate activities in zone text chat, which I cannot turn off on console without missing guild text chat.

I don’t share my bedroom activities so I am not keen to hear about others’ explicit acts.

No judgment here, no hate.

Please don’t moderate me, I am sure others would like to know. It can go the other way, too

It depends. To a toxic, hearing someone has a husband and is male is enough to "trigger" them.

But in general, I'm confused as to why this comment came up in a "stop being hateful towards a group who is already suffering" thread.

Because, well, I'm not seeing where you're getting the idea that "orientation" = "explicit and disgusting comments involving boinking."

Often, but not always, the worst offenders of "having to listen to disgusting and intimate details" that I run into are straight dudes of any age. Spend 5 minutes in a discord chat, and there'll be jokes about private parts, brags about "conquests" and it can get worse in PvP and end-game raiding. I don't know why this happens; it just does.

Yet, questions of their orientation don't seem to come up.

This "dudebro" mindset is so prevalent that some discords have mentions in their TOS, reminding dudes that the guild, discord, etc. is not a dating service. Some have womens-only chat where it's considered a safer area to be.

Do you know what these womens-only chats contain?

Supporting one another from dealing with harassment.

So your question, and any others' concerns about "explicit" activity, are probably misplaced in this thread which is about avoiding harassment.

guarstompemoji · June 2022

Hey, Incursion;

In this case, RL just happens to be who someone is and is in line with the TOS. Being hateful and toxic is against the TOS. Being who you are, so long as you are not being hateful, should not equate "inviting" or "deserving" trolling or hatred.

The people being toxic are ones triggered easily, by the mildest of things which are not hateful or toxic to them or anyone else.

A person should be able to say "I'm gay," without it being a big deal. Their doing so is not hateful, and has no impact on anyone else. This is no different to how a woman should be able to walk along a sidewalk and not be harassed because she's female. Her walking or being female doesn't "open herself up to trolling," and neither should someone's orientation.

Btw, there is a museum dedicated to assault victims in the USA. It displays what the victims were wearing at the time of the attack. ...for example, turtle necks, cardigans.

Toxics trigger easily. They're not good, or decent, people, despite how they may act in other circumstances.

Incursion · June 2022

I agree with you 100% that you should be able to say that if you so choose. A good portion of people online look to anger people saying and doing the most insensitive things they can to get you angry. Sitting behind a monitor makes a lot of people braver than they would be normally. Its one of the drawbacks to online gaming and I have seen it time and again. Point is to not let it get you upset because the moment you do they get what they want.

Iselin · June 2022

TiaFrye wrote: »

Last thing I expected in this thread is High Isle spoilers... Something I would've liked to discover myself while bonding with a character.

Iselin wrote: »

(and Isobel in case yo don't know yet, likes girls so non-heteresexual NPCs are explicity supported by ZOS and have always been, now even one of the companions.)

Be mindful next time, please. At least two weeks from release and even better by using spoiler tag, thank you.

Sorry about that. I should definitely have used the spoiler tag for that... and now I've edited it to do just that.

JustMeAgain · June 2022

TES lore is full of LGBTQ friendly themes. It's probably the most allied fantasy franchise out there without being overtly explicit or full of tokenism, or forced socio-political references. ESO does it organically, and it's a natural part of the universe that queerness is kind of baked into it; pretty much the example of how to do it right. It absolutely boggles the mind that people who are perfectly fine with the history of Vivec and the variety of in-game stories, depth of lore that touch upon these same themes, can be so publicly bigoted in game chat. I mean, what even is that? cognitive dissonance? It's just a strange and somewhat contradictory stance to assume.