If you are on PC screenshot and report. And keep reporting. Not sure how the logistics of doing that work on console.

That sounds awful. What platform is this?

The only thing you can do is report them. Try not to engage, take screenshots of the convo.

Hate speech violates ToS and they're gonna get a permaban.

@ZOS_Kevin please look into this?

The problem, in my opinion, with not engaging with that kind of horrid hate speech is that is goes unchecked and unchallenged.

Unlike the forums where moderation, for the most part, is pretty quick. There doesn't seem to be any ingame moderator presence.

So if nobody says anything these people just have free reign over zone for sometimes hours. Spewing hate speech completely unchallenged.

At some point somebody has to say something. I feel like letting it go on is enabling it, at least personally. I don't think anyone is obligated to say something.

xgoku1 wrote: »

That sounds awful. What platform is this?

The only thing you can do is report them. Try not to engage, take screenshots of the convo.

Hate speech violates ToS and they're gonna get a permaban.

@ZOS_Kevin please look into this?

PC NA.

I know it's common advice not to engage, but I feel like not engaging is leaving these people completely unchallenged and it just emboldens them.

Sometimes you have to stand up to such blatant hate speech.

essi2 wrote: »

/zone in the starter zones should just be removed, it has always been a cesspool.

ZOS needs to get more proactive with monitoring ingame chat

I won't go as far as to say Zone should be removed, but ingame chat needs to be monitored much more.

[snip]

I think you misunderstood what I meant to say. Not all discussion of LGBT+ topics is sexually explicit and therefore should ofc be allowed. But sexually explicit topics, no matter of what nature (straight, gay etc.), are not allowed in game. And that's probably a good call on Zeni's part, so zone stays somewhat clean.

[edited to remove quote]

[snip]

You think being deliberately derogatory, discriminatory and harmful towards a particular group of people because they share one characteristic (a protected characteristic btw, which makes this a human rights violation and against the law in many countries) should be treated with the same severity as people who are defending themselves from an unprovoked attack?

Now, I agree if we're talking about a civil political discussion, where everyone is being as respectful as possible then all views should be equally respected and permitted. But that's not what the OP is talking about.

I also agree that the LGBT+ people shouldn't be insulting or attacking anyone, even in response to a perceived attack. However, there are different levels of "bad" and personally, unprovoked + human rights violation + criminal offense >>>>>>>>>> defending yourself in terms of badness.

[edited to remove quote]

[snip]

This is a bit like saying "I'm against seeing heterosexual relationships in media". It's plain daft.

The problem that you are facing is that you approach sexuality as a question of choice.

I'm going to assume you are heterosexual. Now, why don't you tell us the moment when you decided you were going to be heterosexual?

I guarantee that you can't. Because it is not a choice. Some people are attracted to members of the opposite sex. Some to members of the same sex. Some to both. It just is.

And you can no more be pressured into being homosexual, have it "promoted" on you, than you can be pressured into being heterosexual. It is a question of what you innately like.

So what you are complaining about is people simply acknowledging who they are.

And the logical flipside of your argument is that other people can demand that all references to heterosexuality be removed because they are propaganda for some sort of conscious life choice that is all about what heterosexuals do in the bedroom.

It obviously isn't. Am I going to take offence when you announce that you love your girlfriend and scream that we must protect the children from your lewd and sexualised messaging?

Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

[edited to remove quote]

I just want to take a moment and say I deeply appreciate every single one of you that's commented with supportive comments and helped to explain why this is important.

You're all amazing reminders that ESO has an amazing community and it's only a small minority with these awful hateful ideals.

You've all done a lot to raise my spirits after last night.



Happy Pride

[snip]

Just remember that in some parts of the world we are getting close to a place that was unimaginable even 20 years ago -- where people don't give a [twit] if you turn up with a husband, wife, whatever. That is a good thing.

There are always going to be people with backward ideas, but as understanding has moved on more generally it strikes me as better to treat such people with pity than to take what they say to heart.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with who you are, and when people think it's right to hate people for feeling love (which, at the end of the day, is what this is actually about), well, what else is there but to pity them? There's certainly nothing to respect in people who live to hate.

[edited to remove quote]

I'm so sorry you had to face this kind of hate, Sainguin. I've reported him, and will also look out for toxic zone chat. I hope this will get cleared up soon.

Tenthirty2 wrote: »

I'll start this by saying I feel ya, 1000%

That said,

SainguinKrist wrote: »

So I'd hate to be that guy, but I need to be.

Zone chat is usually not the worst (Stonefalls, Glenumbra, and Auridon being big examples) but it has some pretty awful moments sprinkled in.

Which brings me to the point of this post, Pride Month and zone chat.

Stonefalls zone chat absolutely erupted tonight in some of the most wild hate speech I've seen in a long time. People were calling the LGBT+ community child groomers and quite a bit more. It's still going on as I post this. With no ingame presence of mods, we were left to defend ourselves and it has quickly become a shouting match with people calling the LGBT+ community horrible things and members of LGBT+ community/allies are shouting at them to shut up and quit spreading hateful bigoted ideas.

Is there anyway that ZOS can have an ingame presence during Pride? This is only day 5 and we're seeing some really awful things being said.

My guild specifically is LGBT+ led and friendly, and most of our members identify within the community. We feel like we have to be on high alert this month instead of celebrating our community and ourselves.

I really hope to see some kind of ZOS response, hopefully ingame.

I'll start this by saying I feel ya, 1000%
Sadly I don't feel ZoS will schedule people to be in chat, heck to my knowledge its been a looong time since any GM showed up in-game at all. I don't think they have the staffing levels for it.

That said, the very best response you can do in these cases is:
DON'T respond.
They've given you the perfect evidence, screenshot, report them.
Block them if you feel you need to.
Try to resume enjoying the game.

But at the very least, don't respond, give them NOTHING.

If you feel those steps make me seem uncaring or not invested in LGBTQ+ acceptance and inclusion that perception could not be further from the truth.

With people like that, the thing they want most is an audience and a response to their foul views and words. They want to pull others into their garbage, to control them.
It frustrates them when they don't get it. That makes me smile.

You may think you realize this, I thought I did too but it took me a long time to actually DO IT.
And if you are like me it is perhaps the most difficult thing to do, ignoring them.
But in these situations they are just words. If no one in chat responded to them the hateful junk would stop quickly. They don't want an echo chamber, it's boring.

Once you learn to ignore the words, they will stop, or move on. Always looking for that one person they can light a fire under so they get gratification and feel better about themselves for controlling someone else.

Please don't give them that, that is the worst you can do as it only empowers them.
Ignore, let them feel the weight of silence.

I understand the best course of action is to usually not engage, and trust me, I see this type of hatred every day I recruit for my guild and just silently report and move on.

But there are times we have to stand up and say something and bring attention to the horrible things going on within our community.

If there's ever a time to talk about this, it's Pride month. Something Bethesda and Zenimax both openly support. So they should care about this.

I do appreciate your kind words though, even if in this instance I disagree, there's a lot of wisdom in what you've said.

Unfortunately this post went off the rails almost immediately. But it basically illustrates the entire issue that OP was trying to address. Hateful speech is not productive and turns any conversation into a place of chaos.

There's many people that see any conversations LBGTQ+ in any form as inappropriate, but that's a bit childish. Plugging your ears won't change reality, I think it's better to be more open about things and have a productive conversation over just trying to push it into a corner. Just because something is uncomfortable, doesn't mean it's bad, it could be an opportunity for emotional growth.

If you look at it from the outside, there are always going to be questions about why pride exists. And to the majority of the population, who've never had to put their mind to whether it's OK to feel what they feel for other human beings, that's probably understandable.

But if you have grown up gay / LGBT, those questions DO arise. And they carry on in adult life, even in the most gay friendly countries.

Am I allowed to say I have a boyfriend? If I say I'm gay will people immediately start thinking about what I do with my ***? Will I get beaten up because I am attracted to people of the same sex? Will people mock me just for being me?

The whole point of pride is to say that it is OK. That there are other people just like you. And that you are allowed to be who you are in the same way most "normal" people wouldn't bat an eyelid about referring to having a girlfriend / boyfriend / wife / husband and talking about their families. They certainly wouldn't expect to be beaten up in a back alley for the mere fact of being heterosexual and they don't expect people to imagine, the very moment they say they're straight, what positions they were in at midnight on the first day of their honeymoon.

Your sexuality is a fundamental part of your life. And people should not have to hide it in everyday speech.

It is not about what you do in bed. It is about being able to participate in conversations about who you spent your weekend with. It is about not being made to lie constantly and think through every pronoun before you speak. It is about who you go on holiday with, who you take care of when they ill, who you grieve upon death.

It is as much a fundamental part of gay people's lives as straight people's.

It is simply not acceptable to pretend that it is OK to shout down people simply for being themselves.

And it is utterly unacceptable to pretend that it is harmful to children to acknowledge that men who eat breakfast with men, women who eat breakfast with women, exist, and somehow equate that with hardcore pornography.

The opposite is true: any child growing up who even thinks they might be gay needs to know that that is OK and they will be loved all the same. If you try to make your child feel otherwise, you are going to fill them with self loathing over something they cannot control and cannot change. And if you think that is loving parenting, well, there's something seriously wrong with you and your idea of an appropriate environment for your children.

We don't know how many people actually are gay / LGBT because the question is mixed up with who decides to tell the person taking the data they are, but the Kinsey estimate was about 10%. UK statistical data has people self reporting as such at about 6.4%.

That is A LOT of people to expect to sweep themselves under the carpet and stop "ramming their agenda [read: existence] down other people's throats" just because people are so immature and ignorant they are unable to stop themselves thinking about pee pee parts.

There is no acceptable argument "against" LGBT any more than there is an acceptable argument "against" black people or women. Insults and abuse are not acceptable, intolerance of people not exactly the same as you is not acceptable.

Pride exists, quite frankly, because people need to grow up and become adults. You are most certainly not an adult if you are incapable of seeing a whole category of the population as anything other than what they do in the bedroom. And this thread, and comments in chat in the game itself, provide ample evidence of that.

There needs to be moderation and people who think their kinds of bigoted views are somehow justifiable need to be moderated and probably banned from the game. They are harmful to other players.

JavaRen wrote: »

If you are on PC screenshot and report. And keep reporting. Not sure how the logistics of doing that work on console.

This.

While I doubt Zenimax has GMs, they likely look into reports of abusive bad hateful speech. So it’s best to report the behavior and I expect all three platforms have easy ways to do this.

It’s also a good idea to avoid replying to thiese types of people as that just fuels them.