Browiseth wrote: »

so vampire sucks
yea i don't care if you like it or if you've made it work, it's just pretty bad

A less than charming opening but I read on. I play Stage 4 on multiple toons in PvP. All of my thoughts pertain only to PvP and I've only commented where I had something to add or disagreed, anything I didn't comment on I have no issue with your idea.

Browiseth wrote: »

Blood Scion

so the idea behind this ult is...ok i think, but i don't for the life of me understand why it costs almost 100 more ultimate than necromancer's Bone Tyrant ult, when the two are so similar. also, during the transformation and when returning back to normal form, as far as i've been able to see you're locked into the animation while Bone Tyrant has some freedom to still use skills and animation cancel.
As for the morphs, the only thing i know i would change is to add one extra line to the Swarming Scion morph that makes it so the bats either do Magic Damage or Bleed Damage, depending on the higher of your magicka and stamina. (higher max magicka = magic damage, higher max stamina = bleed damage) i'm not sure what to do with Perfect Scion and i'd hesitate to change it anyway, as i understand it currently has some niche uses.
So, to summarize:

- Reduce the Ultimate cost to 300 (before stage modifiers)
- Allow the damage type of the bats in Swarming Scion to change based on whether you're a mag/stam build
- it's super weird and goofy that khajiit and argonian vampires suddenly turn into very human-looking Blood Scions so i'd make a unique character model for those characters

When you're in Stage 4 Scion costs about 30 less Ult than Goliath (since Vampire also increases the cost of Goliath), Scion gives more offensive potential on account of the 10k Mag and Stam, and Scion heals you to full Health and Goliath only for 30k, so if you're at low health, you get more HP restored when transforming to Scion than Goliath (about 40k versus 30k, if you have non-transformed 30k Max and you're at 1k). Other than that, Goliath does make you a bit tankier than Scion with its higher HP pool (and thus stronger Harvests and Scythes) and the 2% Healing Taken from Health Avarice, but Scion is better offensively. Overall I think these 2 Ults are balanced well against each other. (speaking only of Ravenous Goliath in this comparison since it's the more similar Morph)

However, I think both Goliath and Scion should lose their Ult Gen Negation, I don't see why they need this when Werewolf can be sustained by feeding and I don't think any other Ults do this. I feel like their cost is high enough that it wouldn't be imbalanced, but I could be wrong. Pummeling was outrageous at launch but since that first nerf I've hardly seen it and Ravenous has been much more popular.

But yes that would be neat if the DoT scaled to Bleeds or Magic like you say. Makes sense thematically and mechanically to me.

Browiseth wrote: »

Eviscerate

what purpose does this skill even serve? it's very obviously meant to be a spammable, but...why would you use it over anything else in your class's kit? the idea of the skill doing more damage while you're low health sounds unique on paper, but just doesn't work in a game like this where you need to be at full health all the time or risk being one-shot by something, not to mention in any form of group content you ideally are running a healer who either 1) is going to prevent you from taking advantage of the bonus damage or 2) is going to get really frustrated with you if you're using the Blood for Blood morph.

I would suggest converting the skill to cost stamina, deal bleed damage and have a unique bonus critical damage modifier independent of your character's current critical damage bonus. i would change the Arterial Burst morph to also include a unique critical strike chance modifier, and change the Blood for Blood morph so that instead of being immune to healing from other players, you instead receive Major Defile and, if the skill is used while you are below 50% health, the health cost is reduced.

Why exactly should it cost Stam? Bleed makes sense thematically for sure, so I understand if that's your reason, but there are plenty of other non-class melee Stam spammables and no other Mag ones besides Impulse, unless I've forgotten something. You would use this skill over others in your class kit because melee spammables generally have a higher tooltip than ranged, as they should, and some of the ranged Mag class spammables are also much to easy to dodge in PvP, Birds and Skulls especially. Hardly anybody uses Birds and Skulls as spammables in PvP, rather they are only rarely used to proc a set or something. Eviscerate gives MagDen and MagCro a high tooltip, low cost melee instant cast spammable that they otherwise lack.

The Low Health feature works in PvP. In any scenario when at low health and facing a low health opponent, we must choose where to spend our GCDs, whether to heal/defend or take a gamble and attack, and since everybody in PvP has Undeath, the Crit feature on this is nice. Many times in a 1v1 both opponents choose to take the gamble and attack rather than heal, and so this gives you a little edge in such a case. As for changing the Healing Taken Penalty to Major Defile, maybe, in PvP hardly anybody uses Blood for Blood over Arterial Burst so it doesn't really matter.

Browiseth wrote: »

Mesmerize

I've got no idea on this one. i know stuns/cc are very important in pvp but i don't play pvp so...pvp mains, tell me if this skill is good.

Turn Evil is much more reliable, Mesmerize is essentially an RNG Stun. So no, it's not very good since we can all use Turn Evil. Definitely looks cool though, one of the best animations in the game. I don't think it's thematic for a Vampire to use Turn Evil, I'm not even sure Vampires should be allowed in the Fighter's Guild but we need Camo Hunter on most classes and Dawnbreaker on a few.

Browiseth wrote: »

PASSIVES

ok first of all get rid of this stupid regular ability costs increase and also allow the player to retain a tiny amount of health regen while at stage 4, just for convenience sake. Do that and I think the base downsides/upsides of vampirism are perfectly fine.

I think the Sustain Penalties are fine for PvP, it works to limit the overall power gained from Vampire passives, which are considerable. I think the Flame and Fighter's Guild Damage Taken penalty should be removed, at least with Undeath in its present state, because the combination of these two things results in some imbalances: Flame does more damage to a Vampire than any other element, but below 60% HP, it does even more damage to a Mortal. It doesn't seem right and it might make balancing MagDK a bit tricky.

As for whether we would should have a trickle of HP Regen at Stage 4 in PvP, maybe, mostly all it does in its present state is force us to dismount to heal from Fall Damage, on the other hand the passives are an objective power-up for any spec, so this gives us a bit of a tactical limitation, in that we might not be able to begin engagements at full health as frequently as non Stage 4s.

Browiseth wrote: »

Undeath

as I understand since the big vampire overhaul in Greymoor or whatever, this passive actually works as intended and is pretty good so...yea i've got nothing to suggest here.

Unnatural Movement

very fun meme skill in pve, probably overpowered in pvp i dunno. don't think i would change it anyway

Undeath is OP in PvP and Unnatural Movement is not. For some of us Unnatural Movement + Strike from the Shadows is the whole reason for going Stage 4 in PvP, but it's not a very popular choice because of the extra penalties.

Undeath on the other hand is the reason roughly 999 out of 1000 PvPers run Stage 3. It is simply too mathematically strong in PvP not to run and this is somewhat disruptive to balance - this balance was upended by the nerf to HP Regen, such that now only Werewolves would even think about HP Regen in PvP. Really the imbalance issue could be entirely resolved by removing the Damage Taken penalties as I mentioned above, but the passive would remain indispensable with a considerable influence on the pace of combat. The state of Undeath in PvP is entwined in the larger, complicated balancing act of Damage and Healing Reductions in Battlespirit, Max HP, etc.

Browiseth wrote: »

ok thanks bye!!!

Bye bye now

Isnt vampire overpowered as ppl keep saying my change make undeath also decrease healing by 80% to make it more in line with high risk reward. Aerterial burst is atm the strongest spammable and needs a nerf like put its dmg scaling from health to half and base dmg decreased with 10% each vamp skill should have a penalty for its power but unnatural movement it feels kinda underwhelming. But doubble the current penalties atleast

Faulgor wrote: »

Overload also stops ultimate generation. TBH I don't really understand the reasoning, ultis like Corrosive Armor could be considered transformations as well and are probably more powerful than Blood Scion or Goliath. Yet it doesn't stop ultimate generation.
There is an argument to stop ulti generation for werewolves, because extending the duration is part of their "minigame" - if you could immediately enter WW form again after losing that game, it would have no purpose. Either Blood Scion/Goliath need a similar mechanic, or should allow for ultimate generation during their uptime.

IMO it would be really cool to combine one Blood Scion morph with Blood Frenzy into a WW-like minigame, meaning you continuously lose HP while transformed, but if you can maintain your health above a certain threshold, you can remain in your Blood Scion form.

Yes I agree, that specific mini-game idea is an interesting one, something like that would be quite nice. Neither one of these Ults are especially popular in PvP.

They should either maintain Ult Gen like Corrosive or have a Feed function like WW exactly like you say. Many will say "well Corrosive is OP so that's a bad idea", but if that were true then StamDK would always have been regarded as OP and not so many streamers would be publishing StamDK builds using Spell Wall. It is Whip which is OP, not Corrosive.

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Overload also stops ultimate generation. TBH I don't really understand the reasoning, ultis like Corrosive Armor could be considered transformations as well and are probably more powerful than Blood Scion or Goliath. Yet it doesn't stop ultimate generation.
There is an argument to stop ulti generation for werewolves, because extending the duration is part of their "minigame" - if you could immediately enter WW form again after losing that game, it would have no purpose. Either Blood Scion/Goliath need a similar mechanic, or should allow for ultimate generation during their uptime.

IMO it would be really cool to combine one Blood Scion morph with Blood Frenzy into a WW-like minigame, meaning you continuously lose HP while transformed, but if you can maintain your health above a certain threshold, you can remain in your Blood Scion form.

Yes I agree, that specific mini-game idea is an interesting one, something like that would be quite nice. Neither one of these Ults are especially popular in PvP.

They should either maintain Ult Gen like Corrosive or have a Feed function like WW exactly like you say. Many will say "well Corrosive is OP so that's a bad idea", but if that were true then StamDK would always have been regarded as OP and not so many streamers would be publishing StamDK builds using Spell Wall. It is Whip which is OP, not Corrosive.

In pvp it seems alot complain about the petrify thing vampires issue is its benefits some classes but the cons is higher than the pros and in general like vamp is not designed around content outside of solo as its active skills block healing vamp drain for example idk why it exist in its current form its weak it dont really help and 2 the other 2 makes it so only self heals work and scion short duration its pretty much same as necros bone goliath form even morphs are similar except goliath is cheaper scions perfect morph idk why it exist for no downside thats basicly being non vamp and the benefits yeah its very usefull to spend 300+ ult for an effect lasting 10 seconds at most its basicly a full heal but like blood for blood is strongest spam but also depends how close to dying you are high risk and reward is great idea if it worked but ww seems to be more consistant and also less downsides but vampire is likely to just keep getting like i kinda wish they changed mist to gap closer like swarm to make it more mobile but its fine in its current state even if not working in pve its fine but fix is probly not gonna happend even tho there is kinda undeath idk why ppl complain so much about its not flat reduction so then its maxed you are nearly dead anyway. But lamea s vampirism feels alot weaker then the other vampire types in game not joking