i would agree with @fred4 on bahsei, i even tried using it and i dont really like it, i could it working better for a stam character that has a smaller mag pool and you arent using the emptied pool for say attacking, it takes some serious micromanagement in terms of balancing resource recovery to still use skills vs being as close to 0 mag at all times

for a solo build, magma + markyn would work good, then you could fit in 1 5pc set, front and back bar arena weapons, and then use a 2 pc filler (i use builds similar to this of 2pc monster + 5pc set + mythic + front/back bar arena + 2pc filler such as trainee, willpower, or agility, although trainee is objectively better for mag toons, i still use agility for stam toons)

i would also agree that hexos ward provides a very good balance of offense and defense for general play

and i would also agree that if your doing trials, it wont matter how good your build is if mechanics are failed or you stand in the wrong spot at wrong time because there are so many 1 shots

fiender66 wrote: »

Nothing better than Iceheart for a "serious" magplar.

You can't really argue with Iceheart on a solo build, even though it's been nerfed, if you want to make that your only shield or stack it with Hexos Ward.

Just to say that my recommendation of Nerieneth was based on a Skinny Cheeks video, i.e. someone who does far more exhaustive testing than I do. It came in tops of all monster sets for magicka at +8% average damage added. Since procs can crit again, the set does a lot of damage. The caveat is that it needs AOE scenarios to shine, but I think Skinny's spreadsheet wasn't specifically geared for templars. Sweeps dealing 4x direct damage per second greatly increases the proc chance compared to most other builds. Not sure whether Burning Light also counts as direct damage. Basically it procs like mad on templar. If you want a damage monster set instead of a shielding one, Nerieneth is hard to beat.

Sure, no problem. The reason I'm down on Iceheart is the small shield size. It used to be a go to soloing set in the past. Then it got nerfed. Then we got Hexos Ward, which offers a much bigger shield. Even though you're sacrificing a 5-piece with Hexos Ward, the 2/3/4 bonuses are so good, you're really kind of not. I think I added an Infused Hardening enchant to Hexos Ward at one point, e.g. stacking another shield, but that didn't do much for me. I've never actually tried Iceheart, though.

It's hard to recommend something without knowing what the OPs expectations are and what content they do. In the grand scheme of things neither Hexos Ward nor Iceheart makes you all that tanky. If you stack them, maybe ... but not really ... see below. These setups are fine for the solo arenas, where the added tankiness will help a bit, but those arenas were designed with few actual one shots. You can survive at 20K health and no shields, because most things, not all but most, don't take away your whole health bar. This changes when you try to solo things that weren't expressly designed to be soloed. For example I went up to a Blackwood group boss for the first time with my magplar after writing in this thread. They just nuked me on the Hexos Ward setup, so I put on the resistance setup instead and promptly killed the boss (solo).

There are tools for every occasion. Hexos and Iceheart both have crit components to them, which means you retain damage, but they are not the most tanky. Building for resistance is not actually better, at least not when you prevent yourself from blocking with Gaze of Sithis, but suits different fights. That's why I carry both setups. However, if you want a step up from magplar, then you should probably run a Brawler build. Shielding sets are good and all, but none of them have the consistency and shield size of the Brawler shield, which refreshes every second and scales up to about 20K. That's a new 20K shield every second, when you hit 6 targets. Compare that to Hexos Ward's 14K shield every 7 seconds.

One further thing to experiment with is thinking of your character as a tank, e.g. shifting all your attribute points into health. This is eminently viable these days, because weapon / spell damage and crit are the important things. Nothing much scales with your max stat anymore, not even Power of the Light. The fact that we all have +1K weapon / spell damage in recent patches has also diluted the importance of max stat.

I run a stamsorc tank that is either an actual tank or a Brawler build via gear change. That character is in a different league entirely. I can do vMA in about 1 hour with her, despite low single target damage. That is slow, but fast for an ostensible tank. Her AOE is good, thanks to the Master's 2H weapon, and she gains time by flat out standing in red and ignoring mechanics. I can let the Argonian Behemoth enrage, bash it, ignore the adds and keep fighting it with that character. Few characters can survive that. I can also solo the first vBRP arena with her. No other character of mine can do that. Hard world bosses, such as the Unfinished Dolmen, are no problem.

Templar builds and Brawler builds are similar in one way. Your defense is staying on attack. This is very important as, otherwise, you don't progress the fight and may be overwhelmed. In both cases sustain is terribly important. If I have one piece of advice for the OP it's really to ditch Bahsei for False God. That may just be all he/she needs. Shields and resistances are nice, but it's the healing from attacking that pulls you through. If you die and you don't die jabbing, then you're doing something wrong. If you ran out of sustain or you insisted on doing a full rotation, then your first steps are to get a sustain set and ditch the full rotation. It may sound boring, but that's how the game works as a solo player.

@fiender66: The OP asked for a sturdy build. My question to them is: How sturdy do you want it? When I talk about my stamsorc being a tank, she still does decent damage, but she is extremely sturdy. I'll elaborate on that below. I'm guessing the OP's baseline is a squishy trial DD build. There is a whole spectrum of sturdiness beyond that. Do they want a slightly more comfortable DD that still does a lot of damage? Drop in something like Hexos Ward into your old build. Do they want a fun role-playing build? Go with something like you are running. Do they want the best tanky solo build? I can't help you with templar as of right now, but you could try my stamsorc.

fiender66 wrote: »

Staying for a full hour in vMA or the like has no appeal to me, or at least it has no more (once I was motivated differently, or attracted by novelty, who knows...).

A single hour is actually very good for me historically. That results in a 500K+ score too. Even my templar in full DD mode has managed no better than 48 minutes. I believe the top players do vMA in under half an hour. For that you really need to know your spawn points, your rotations and run a super glass cannon.

To give an example of my moderate kind of fun: this afternoon I went with my magplar against that big scorpion in Craglorn. Sure this is incommensurably easier than the Argonian Behemoth, but is a bad customer anyways. I sported a funny set: Maw+Mad Tinkerer+Withered Hand, and was assisted by a companion that I levelled as a hybrid tank/healer. No prob OFC for the task, and my fun was looking at my personal zoo coming to help, while I never went below 80% of mag or health (always doing damage, OFC). This took some 4', the same stretch of time that the same build uses to solo FG1 (skipping). Ah, I was forgetting, once or twice she killed the Mad Guar solo, and those pesky resurrected kings who auto heal in that Craglorn dungeon are no problem (always with the same funny zoo build, LOL).

That sounds like fun and I think it's relevant to hear what everyone of us, giving advice, is doing, so the OP gets an idea of the level of difficulty or role-playing we're targeting.

The impetus for my stamsorc first came from another forum thread that asked how far you could push a Brawler build with Gaze of Sithis. Whether you could be a dungeon tank with such a setup. Gaze of Sithis has long been dropped and, for dungeon tanking I have found that a Brawler setup, broadly speaking, only works up to the non-DLC vet level. For DLC vet dungeons it's usually better to switch to a conventional tank. This investigation led to me refining my stamsorc for PUG tanking and stickerbook farming, up to and including vet DLC dungeons. You can, however, use the build solo. In it's Brawler variation it is as much a solo / carry build as it is a tank. It deals damage and it sustains and it taunts. It's probably quite unlike any tank you're imagining:

Now, for the opportunity to let it go with Mag or Stam max. Sure you can do whatever challenging content with a tank-like build.

Nope. You actually can't. For example my stamsorc is very borderline for the DPS check in vVateshran, the ring of shades. The only way I can reliably handle that is by slotting Streak to escape the ring. This works on stamsorc, but not all classes have a similar solution.

Another counter-example is soloing vet Scalecaller Peak. Due to the mechanics in the Doylemish fight, you need a ranged build. As it turns out, if you want to solo the very hardest stuff that can be soloed, such as this, people tend to use lightning staff heavy attack builds for that, e.g. kiting builds, not tanky melee builds.

I know one who kills dragon in NE this way. However, you have to use every skill sparingly, with an insane amount of HA, else you drain your mag/stam in a whiff and are a sitting duck. No problem if you enjoy this kind of slow paced gaming, but it is not my cup of tea

My tank is not like that. This is the thing about the game as it stands today. It's very flexible. You can build for hitting the resistance cap in any armor type. You don't want to wear heavy. You want 60% to 90% of your armor to be light or medium for the sustain. In addition I wear Vicious Ophidian or False God, as applicable. On my tank. I'm not a meta player. Meta dudes wouldn't do such a thing, but in reality you can run a Brawler sustain build and solo everything up to vet non-DLC dungeons with that. As long as you taunt, most people won't even notice you're an unusual tank. Here are the 3 build variations I run:

1. Solo build: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=444134
2. Brawler dungeon tank: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=421256
3. Conventional dungeon tank: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=433679

So why does this work so well?

• I'm built for crit to do damage and to keep proccing Crit Surge for healing.
• I never use my ultimate. Instead I slot Temporal Guard for damage reduction and use Strategic Reserve CP for health regen. Note the overall health regen of the build, about 3.7K. Passive, consistent healing from health regen plus Crit Surge / Hurricane is very effective when it's protected by the Brawler shield, or even when it's not.
• If you run Brawler, you absolutely positively need to sustain with Vicious Ophidian, but there is also Dark Deal and 2.4K stam regen.

Maybe it's the health regen. Crit Surge. The Dark Deal sustain. The Master's 2H. The Maelstrom 2H. The 15% damage reduction from slotted skills. The 56% crit from Medusa. The sustain from VO. The combination of all of that allows for a build that breaks rules. I have soloed the final boss in vet Cauldron hard mode with the Brawler variation of this build when my group died. I've ignored the spiders in vet Maelstrom arena 6 with this, the ones you're supposed to lead to the light so they disappear. Those kill every other build. Instead I kept them around and used them to amp up my Brawler damage on the boss. And so on. This build has around 50% crit and 4.5K weapon damage. You actually melt stuff in vMA with this. Killing bosses is a little slow, but on the other hand you can ignore half their mechanics and keep hitting them.

@fred4
@fiender66
Wow was not expecting this much info but thanks a ton you two! Definitely alot to digest and maybe i should explain my current (crap) loadout to elaborate where im coming from and my concerns.

Long story short its a combo of song of Lamae + Morihaus with the willpower ring set, all heavy 2h frontbar staff on the backbar. I know, its utter garbage and i've been planning to overhaul it for a while but both armor sets have saved my hide from things that have oneshotted others countless times. Especially Morihaus, bowling balling through mobs has often given me the time to cast a panic heal.

So I guess I'm looking for to elaborate is something that enhances my DPS while not sacrificing too much for the notorious squishiness of light armor. Not exactly a panic button proc but something that's there when I need it to keep me from going under. Hexos' Ward is definitely appealing, but my major concern is if i could use those 5 slots for another set and use the monster set for something more defensive like Iceheart instead of nerineth or Thierric.

The main appeal of thierric for me was the AOE increase since spear jabs is technichally an area attack and Luminous spear would also benefit from it, both are bread and butter of my main bar along with radiant oppression and purifying light. So my mindset was focus on the main spam attacks in the weave.

In case you want to study the all-important details, here are my builds:

Deadly Strike (all damage): https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=450114
Hexos Ward (with shield): https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=418221
Ascension (high resistance and health regen): https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=450113

My skill layout harkens back to PvP. Let's go over that:

• Puncturing Sweeps - Your spammable
• Camou Hunter - Spell damage from Fighter's Guild passive, Major Prophecy and Minor Berserk, beats Inner Light
• Degeneration - Not a great skill, but this + Camou Hunter covers Sorcery and Prophecy, allowing you to use cheap potions or daily reward / tri-stat potions
• Radiant Glory - Execute from range and heal
• Solar Barrage - Another not great skill, but gives you and the group Minor Sorcery from templar passive - more overall damage
• Flawless Dawnbreaker - More passive damage increase from Fighter's guild. I rarely use this actively.

• Unstable Wall - The all important skill that keeps your Infused back bar enchant procced and activates the vMA destro, even after bar swap
• Honor the Dead - Emergency Heal. Alternatively try Harness Magicka or Dampen Magic. Some people prefer that.
• Channeled Focus - Sustain and resistances. Essential.
• Blazing Spear - I personally find the damage unconvincing, but it gives the synergy for group play and can be thrown from a distance, while you are approaching the target. For solo play I move Solar Barrage here and slot Toppling Charge on the front bar instead.
• Race Against Time - I cannot live without this skill in any content. PvP habit, I suppose. Removes roots and snares. Means you use less stamina for dodge rolling. The Minor Force is nice to have. I use this skill for movement. Also good to catch up with the group, if they ran ahead.
• Shooting Star - I usually use this ultimate.

@Mascen

Happy to help, always. And to do it a bit more, from what I can gather from your last post, what you are looking for is some build that is basically damaging, and not fragile as tinfoil at the same time. Correct?

One useful information would be what exactly do you want to do with it. Roam overland without shying from WB's? Solo dungeons (and which type of them)? Arenas? Participate in trials? Imperial City? All of those according to your whim? The (near)optimal build solution for each task is different, sometimes slightly, sometimes greatly.

Anyways, IMHO (and I mean my real experience, not dummies nor borrowing from others) is that a simple, rather cheap build that can do the basic work is Hexos+Withered hand+Iceheart. You have all light (Hexos on weap/gems, OFC), but really great sustain and 2 shields. With precise and divines and Thief as Mundus. Again, this is simple, not by any means meta or optimised for trials and arenas, but does the every day work in an astounding way, and it is really cheap and easy to get. If you can stomach farming Tempest Island for a week or so, Overwhelming surge is somehow better than WH, but not very much so.

As for skills, pls consider that they give VERY different results depending on how they are used. As an example, what works FOR ME is weaving each puncture with at least TWO light attacks. This is definitely not what any expert would recommend, but fits well with my fingers, my hardware, my ping and who knows how many other elements. I found it through experimenting. One had to do the same.

Last, do not underestimate the help that a companion can give. If you can afford it (i.e., if you own Blackwood), Bastian with 2 procs skills in the first slots (Funnel one of them for sure), and a toughening equip can be of real help.

Feel free to ask for more details, if you need them. And most of all, have fun.

@fred4
@fiender66

Yeah a lot of good info guys still alot for me to digest but I'll try to elaborate and articulate further of what i'm looking for. And yeah that medium armor info is great news. I left shortly before Southern Elsweyr dropped and only returned last March.

1. On my current loadout and what im looking for, I've known fire staffs were good for single target damage for a long time but generally preferred using lightning staffs because i had issues locking on when casting heavy attacks to regain magic on fire staffs whereas I found with lightning I could lock on far easier and be able to change the camera mid attack and focus on strafing more from AOEs, boss mob grunt heavy/stunning strikes, etc. But in hindsight maybe I just need to try again and get better with fire staffs, maybe switch up my back bar more since the only real destruction abilites I use are the Ultimate storm and destructive reach. Also need to learn how to do proper weaving loops since my current plan is basically blazing spear+ backlash, spam spears till they wear off, switch to radiant oppression once below 50% swap to backbar and heavy lightning staff if i need more magic than a potion can provide, and spam heal as necessary or if the healer dies/needs backup.

2. As for what has one shotted me previously? Mostly veteran bosses pre-hiatus and Vet trials bosses like Hel-Ra Citadel. But since I've come back I've also been occasionally oneshotted by newer dungeon bosses like that yaghra looking boss in Coral aerie with the whirlpools and the maomer final boss in shipwrights regret and those were on normal, granted they were on the daily random dungeon runs with no communication and I was going in blind on the dungeon/boss mechanics.

3. And to elaborate on Morihaus, it stemmed back pre hiatus when I was on ad (mob grunt) control in trials, dungeons and occasionally soloing world bosses for daily quests. Often they'd be coming at me from all sides like some of the anka-ra in VHRC while the healer was preoccupied or I was out of range and one would be charging up a heavy/knockdown attack that I knew would floor me and have me killed by the rest of the mob I hadn't killed yet. So Morihaus (at least back then because it appears it doesn't do damage anymore) would give me the few seconds I needed to cause a brief respite and heal.

Oddly enough my second toon is a stamsorc Orc but hes waaaay on the backburner becuase my magplar is my OG/crafter/main focus. I was thinking of giving him the Morihaus stuff since his build is another slapdash build of Defilers + twiceborn + stormfist. Also should build a tank and healer eventually but that's even further on the backburner.

4. As for what I'm looking to tackle now? Vateshran Hollows has been on my eye for a while now because I want that black dye and the maebroogha trophy. Problem is I got floored in Maelstrom Arena when Orsinium first dropped so I've been very apprehensive on tackling arenas since. Trials would be another area for similar reasons as far as dyes/trophies but i also like that Kynes Aegis banner and since I finally squirreled away enough gold to buy Proudspire yesterday (hate the creepy Western Skyrim music, but thats another issue and I have to either get a music box I like or brown-nose here on the forums and cross my fingers some ZOS higher up shows me mercy and implements my suggestion). Anyways also veteran dungeons so that I can farm/sell motifs.

5. As for what I'm looking for currently? Well like you've explained Hexos' Ward is very appealing and does have great refresh times and relatively easy seeming procs on spear jabs given it just needs 1 crit to trigger. I suppose the issue with that is whether I'm overthinking the losses in resistance/health/armor too much and maybe i should put more effort into DPS. But then again maybe I should invest in multiple sets; I could design the equipment loadouts so that I can have both solo and trials/dungeon PVE builds and hybridize between the two for general play just by swapping out specific sets as entire chunks like lego blocks. Bahsei appealed to me mainly because it affects all NPCs and as my magplar is a Breton and I got mag +spell crit/power potions up the wazoo in addition to tricrown restoration potions, sustain hasn't been much of an issue for me, or at least it feels like it hasn't.

And if I havent said it already thanks again for all your help guys.