VAMPIRES and Role-Play. Clarification please.

Thee_Cheshire_Cat · February 2022

Hey there. Thanks for stopping in.

Need some help. i cut my teeth on Vampire the Masquerade back when it was new. Talking first ed. From there, consumed all sorts of vampire lore and loved it all. Minus the sparkling in sunlight.

Now. Here i am, new to the RP in ESO.

It is vastly important to me, i get things right, as i have a heavy RP guild (just came over from WoW a month ago, getting my toes wet before i go balls to the wall advertising and all), and i want to ensure, the 'correct' things are supported, and that the unique vampires in ESO are promoted and as unsullied as possible by outside sources. (Other vampires from other 'worlds/universes/etc'.) i am also one of those people who feel, if your character is a vampire, PLAY a vampire then. Not another class, just because you don't want to be 'burdened' by ESO vampire mechanics or whatever.

Someone, please teach me, so that i may do this. i currently do NOT have a vampire character, for the record.

Role-play wise speaking, what are the pluses and minuses to BEING a vampire. Attributes and abilities are that supported (perhaps enforced?) by lore and the game mechanics. Things that are 'standard' in the RP community for vampires. Is it in ESO anywhere about vampires having a euphoric bite? Can they close wounds with their saliva? Are their tears blood? Is sunlight and or garlic a recipe for a bad day. All those things, and more, i wish to know.

In my experience, people playing vampires are all about the good things, and ignore the bad as much as possible. There has to be a balance.

How are vampires created. Really. i am aware that a person can become infected by a blood fiend. It doesn't happen often. To my knowledge, in order for a vampire to create another, it has to be done at a special altar, via the Ritual of Blood. In the RP community, is this enforced? Or has it become acceptable to create vampires anywhere, anytime, because you just want to. What is PROPER? Come on, hardcore RPers, Lore masters... i am hoping to hear from you, please.

Is 'the cure' widely accepted as a valid way to get rid of the curse? Is it accepted the cure can be taken as a potion?(Since you can buy them from the crown store) Or is it more widely accepted only a specially ordained priest can do it. Or is it frowned upon. Why, or why not.

Anything else? Please feel free to share. Educate me, i wish to learn.

Thank you for your time.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · February 2022

Well met!
I can not speak on a vampire in ESO as a playable race as I have just made my first one and new at it. From what I have read on forums, vamps are always getting nerfed, buffed or changed.. Lol!

BUT, as far as lore goes, vampires in Tamriel are not the gothic Stoker style.
Here are some of my favorite Lore Videos on Vampires in the Elder Scroll Universe. Hope this helps a litte.
Good hunting!
Huzzah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWnPkbR6DPU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umsgdHxyljI&t=734s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpfLDBtTZYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eS92sqWRzs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYnk7bbNshU

kaushad · February 2022

You're right to question what might otherwise be assumptions from V:tM. Vampire lore is a fairly popular topic among TES players. This means that you can find a lot of information and lot of misinformation. If you haven't already, start by reading about them on UESP and check out the references. Vampires of Iliac Bay says a lot about what being one is like.

ESO vampire lore is complicated for a few reasons.

It's more difficult to find any information in the game, because so far as I know, we can't just search for a key word in all of its books and dialogue anywhere.
Vampire mechanics are more lenient for player characters, because unlike in other games, we can't press a button to wait until night.
Some fan conjecture has made into the game, including Molag Bal's claim to vampire souls and the TESIV's strength through starvation feature becoming universal rather than a quirk of one or several clans.

Creation
It's not unusual for vampires to become that way through accidental infection. The Vestige needs a bit more than that to turn completely, as stated in that quest, but they're a special case. There's no Camarilla policing who gets embraced and how, but some vampires are stigmatised based on their background. For example, the vampires of Castle Volkihar in Skyrim took a lot of pride in having either received vampirism directly from Molag Bal or somebody else who did (although they don't say how many generation they have). And the more organised vampires in Morrowind call the player character an accident/abomination/monster because they got turned by a random infection.

Cures
There have been cures for vampirism in most TES games. ESO's is unusually easy to find, but maybe that says more about Prelate Sabinus. Generally, they are very obscure. Most vampires don't get that choice. Even when the player character of Morrowind asks Molag Bal himself for a cure, Bal gets it from Vaermina.

Banes
At worst, they burn in daylight and temples and more easily by fire and everyone can tell that they're vampires by looking at them or hearing their voices. At best, they're fine in daylight and temples and either they pass as mortal or nobody acknowlegdes it.

Some conjection about euphoric bites
I don't think they'd need their bite have that effect. Player vampires either bite to kill, bite people in their sleep or use spells to sedate or feed directly.

Thee_Cheshire_Cat · February 2022

wench and Kau, thank you both for your replies. i figure at this point the more information i can garner, i can start comparing similar points and using those to form a more clearer 'blueprint' if you will.

From the videos, it seems there is a crap tonne of varied information about clans and abilities that could account for any number of RP abilities and scenarios.

Seems a person interested in playing a vampire, or one who may simply 'end up' there through whatever RP means will have a lot of research to do, if they want to play the vampire character 'properly'. If the person is lucky, their 'Sire' will have some OOC and IC help to give them as well, ideally.

i'm deciding that whatever vampire a person may be, it is a good idea to have a (at least) simple character sheet outlining what abilities they do have, and what their flaws are. Even their clan bloodline. This would help ensure the player is not suddenly pulling an ability out of their butts that may sound like a cool thing to do given whatever random scenario they find themselves in.

i am very curious as well, how a Thrall may be played. How much of 'themselves' do they retain? What are key points for one to remember when playing one? (RPly speaking of course). What are their merits and flaws in general?

i do hope more people chime in, so further my research in this matter. Not that both of your replies were not helpful, they have been, very much so, since i had next to nothing to reach for at all. Thank you both.

Vevvev · February 2022

I'm always asked these questions all the time and find people borrowing from VtM a lot in RP. I enjoy VtM lore to but there are key differences between World of Darkness vampires and Elder Scrolls vampires.

Kaushad did a good job writing their post up and I see no fault in any of it.

As for the other nuisances people generally don't ask but assume or borrow from VtM are the following...

Vampires in The Elder Scrolls lore are more alive than dead. This bothers some people but unlike World of Darkness the term undead is very very very loose in it's interpretation and meaning in TES lore. Think of it more like a sliding scale between alive and dead than a definite "they're dead but reanimate".

This means that TES vampires have working bodies for the most part and can bleed, still breath, are not immune to poison except in cases like the Volkihar clan, have working hearts, and can take some benefits from eating food without the need for having a high humanity score like in v5 VtM. Of course there are the nuisances between bloodlines with some being more closer to actually being dead than others, but as a general rule of thumb they're better described as blood cursed individuals.
TES vampires don't have retractable fangs. I hope I don't need to explain this more, but in none of the games have vampires had the ability to hide their fangs outside illusion magic. Order vampires in Oblivion did look more vampiric and monstrous as they starved though with their fang length maybe increasing as well. Or that was just a Argonian and Khajiit thing... I'd have to look back at it.

ESO vampires don't have fangs more out of technical limitations or laziness than because they actually don't. Going off the vampire skill line pictures it's safe to assume they have the 4 fang thing going for them (2 top and 2 bottom) like the Volkihars do.

Vevvev · February 2022

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

i am very curious as well, how a Thrall may be played. How much of 'themselves' do they retain? What are key points for one to remember when playing one? (RPly speaking of course). What are their merits and flaws in general?

Thralls in TES lore are either vampires or not, there are no ghouls.

A vampire can seduce a mortal with vampiric seduction then bite them to assume control over their will. This seems to last an unknown amount of time, but it's assumed it'll need refreshing every so often to keep the person under control. Killing the vampire will break the illusion and free the thralls under the vampire's control. They seem to keep some of their personality, but their every waking desire is to serve their master even if it means dying. In fact, they might even be happy to die by their master's hand if they fail.

The second kind of thrall is the blood thrall, and since there are no ghouls.... well... yeah.... Turning mortals into vampires and using vampiric powers to control the childer is a way of enthrallment, but unlike illusionary enthrallment the thrall is no longer mortal and sometimes degrades to nothing more than a feral beast called a blood fiend. It's more used when a vampire needs shock troops than a means of concealment or a supply of blood.

Thee_Cheshire_Cat · February 2022

Vevvev wrote: »

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

i am very curious as well, how a Thrall may be played. How much of 'themselves' do they retain? What are key points for one to remember when playing one? (RPly speaking of course). What are their merits and flaws in general?

Thralls in TES lore are either vampires or not, there are no ghouls.

A vampire can seduce a mortal with vampiric seduction then bite them to assume control over their will. This seems to last an unknown amount of time, but it's assumed it'll need refreshing every so often to keep the person under control. Killing the vampire will break the illusion and free the thralls under the vampire's control. They seem to keep some of their personality, but their every waking desire is to serve their master even if it means dying. In fact, they might even be happy to die by their master's hand if they fail.

The second kind of thrall is the blood thrall, and since there are no ghouls.... well... yeah.... Turning mortals into vampires and using vampiric powers to control the childer is a way of enthrallment, but unlike illusionary enthrallment the thrall is no longer mortal and sometimes degrades to nothing more than a feral beast called a blood fiend. It's more used when a vampire needs shock troops than a means of concealment or a supply of blood.

Thank you for chiming in Vev!

i had assumed ESO vampires were more alive than dead after hearing the ability to impregnate others. Guess their swimmers are still very much alive. There is no word on if the offspring would be a vampire or not, so i guess that would be left up to those who want a snowflake or not.

Sounds like, from what you've written, Thralls are, at the very least, shadows of their former selves. To what degree (the first one) i suppose would be between the Sire and the Thrall.

i would assume, that the second form of Thrall you mentioned could be potentially 'cured' just as any vampire could be under the right treatment.

Vevvev · February 2022

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

i am very curious as well, how a Thrall may be played. How much of 'themselves' do they retain? What are key points for one to remember when playing one? (RPly speaking of course). What are their merits and flaws in general?

Thralls in TES lore are either vampires or not, there are no ghouls.

A vampire can seduce a mortal with vampiric seduction then bite them to assume control over their will. This seems to last an unknown amount of time, but it's assumed it'll need refreshing every so often to keep the person under control. Killing the vampire will break the illusion and free the thralls under the vampire's control. They seem to keep some of their personality, but their every waking desire is to serve their master even if it means dying. In fact, they might even be happy to die by their master's hand if they fail.

The second kind of thrall is the blood thrall, and since there are no ghouls.... well... yeah.... Turning mortals into vampires and using vampiric powers to control the childer is a way of enthrallment, but unlike illusionary enthrallment the thrall is no longer mortal and sometimes degrades to nothing more than a feral beast called a blood fiend. It's more used when a vampire needs shock troops than a means of concealment or a supply of blood.

Thank you for chiming in Vev!

i had assumed ESO vampires were more alive than dead after hearing the ability to impregnate others. Guess their swimmers are still very much alive. There is no word on if the offspring would be a vampire or not, so i guess that would be left up to those who want a snowflake or not.

Sounds like, from what you've written, Thralls are, at the very least, shadows of their former selves. To what degree (the first one) i suppose would be between the Sire and the Thrall.

i would assume, that the second form of Thrall you mentioned could be potentially 'cured' just as any vampire could be under the right treatment.

We do know of the Gray Prince who is a half vampire. If you take his game files as established lore he has the full passive power of a max stage vampire with none of the weaknesses. Ultimate snowflake mode..... But yes it's possible, but the lore on it isn't very defined and the implications of the game code is just as hazardous as the implication of the Perfect Scion form having basically no weaknesses.

And yes, they're shadows of their former selves but there is a chance to give them more autonomy. It's just not seen often because TES vampires are like the Dark Ages VtM vampires. They're a bit open and brazen with not many actually trying to hide and blend in.

And I'd assume curing the blood thralls could free them. Good luck holding them down to do it though.

Blinx · March 2022

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Is 'the cure' widely accepted as a valid way to get rid of the curse? Is it accepted the cure can be taken as a potion?(Since you can buy them from the crown store) Or is it more widely accepted only a specially ordained priest can do it. Or is it frowned upon. Why, or why not.

vampire cure in game costs next to nothing, you'd be getting taken for a ride buying it off the crown store, same for infection, just asking nicely in zone and someone should oblige, if you don't want to find the blood fiends

Thee_Cheshire_Cat · March 2022

Blinx wrote: »

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Is 'the cure' widely accepted as a valid way to get rid of the curse? Is it accepted the cure can be taken as a potion?(Since you can buy them from the crown store) Or is it more widely accepted only a specially ordained priest can do it. Or is it frowned upon. Why, or why not.

vampire cure in game costs next to nothing, you'd be getting taken for a ride buying it off the crown store, same for infection, just asking nicely in zone and someone should oblige, if you don't want to find the blood fiends

Thank you for your input.

However, i am more focusing on the viability for things in game vs role-play, what is accepted, what is not, in the heavy RP community.

Like, where the cure so 'easily accessible ', is that frowned upon in the RP community to use so freely, or, is it accepted because perhaps so much has been learned about Vampirism in Tamriel over the decades for a cure to become less difficult to get. There are priests in game who you have to go to, the 'cure' you get in the crown store comes in a vial, so is that also accepted in game RPly as something that one could have gotten from one of the priests, say, if the person who was infected had been unable to travel.

If the availability is frowned upon in the heavier RP community, what is the more acceptable means of getting the cure generally.

Thee_Cheshire_Cat · March 2022

Vevvev wrote: »

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

i am very curious as well, how a Thrall may be played. How much of 'themselves' do they retain? What are key points for one to remember when playing one? (RPly speaking of course). What are their merits and flaws in general?

Thralls in TES lore are either vampires or not, there are no ghouls.

A vampire can seduce a mortal with vampiric seduction then bite them to assume control over their will. This seems to last an unknown amount of time, but it's assumed it'll need refreshing every so often to keep the person under control. Killing the vampire will break the illusion and free the thralls under the vampire's control. They seem to keep some of their personality, but their every waking desire is to serve their master even if it means dying. In fact, they might even be happy to die by their master's hand if they fail.

The second kind of thrall is the blood thrall, and since there are no ghouls.... well... yeah.... Turning mortals into vampires and using vampiric powers to control the childer is a way of enthrallment, but unlike illusionary enthrallment the thrall is no longer mortal and sometimes degrades to nothing more than a feral beast called a blood fiend. It's more used when a vampire needs shock troops than a means of concealment or a supply of blood.

Thank you for chiming in Vev!

i had assumed ESO vampires were more alive than dead after hearing the ability to impregnate others. Guess their swimmers are still very much alive. There is no word on if the offspring would be a vampire or not, so i guess that would be left up to those who want a snowflake or not.

Sounds like, from what you've written, Thralls are, at the very least, shadows of their former selves. To what degree (the first one) i suppose would be between the Sire and the Thrall.

i would assume, that the second form of Thrall you mentioned could be potentially 'cured' just as any vampire could be under the right treatment.

We do know of the Gray Prince who is a half vampire. If you take his game files as established lore he has the full passive power of a max stage vampire with none of the weaknesses. Ultimate snowflake mode..... But yes it's possible, but the lore on it isn't very defined and the implications of the game code is just as hazardous as the implication of the Perfect Scion form having basically no weaknesses.

And yes, they're shadows of their former selves but there is a chance to give them more autonomy. It's just not seen often because TES vampires are like the Dark Ages VtM vampires. They're a bit open and brazen with not many actually trying to hide and blend in.

And I'd assume curing the blood thralls could free them. Good luck holding them down to do it though.

So, Thralls are more like the Sabbat in terms of caring if they blend in or not? And of course, there are some clans i am gathering, who are more feral than others, which would affect their wanting to blend in. But right now, focusing on the Thralls.

If i'm being honest, i thought Thralls were indeed like ghouls. But now i've been corrected that they are simply vampires as well. The difference being, i believe, is how under the thumb of their Sire they are. (Being controlled etc)

It's just as well the Gray Prince is an NPC by the sounds of it.

As for player half-bloods. Suppose their merits or flaws would be like that of a Doodle. (Talking dog now bear with me lol) Would depend on how much the child leans toward which parent. However, as a player character, one would still have to have flaws to balance out the merits properly.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · March 2022

Vampirism in Elder Scrolls is one of the more unique versions of it I've seen in fiction. For one it's more of a disease than a curse, and which has been mentioned previously, vampires in TES are usually more "alive" than in other fiction.

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Role-play wise speaking, what are the pluses and minuses to BEING a vampire. Attributes and abilities are that supported (perhaps enforced?) by lore and the game mechanics. Things that are 'standard' in the RP community for vampires. Is it in ESO anywhere about vampires having a euphoric bite? Can they close wounds with their saliva? Are their tears blood? Is sunlight and or garlic a recipe for a bad day. All those things, and more, i wish to know.

This is actually a good place where the whole disease thing shows itself. Vampirism in TES is a disease and like many diseases and virus it has gotten several strains, and all of those pluses and minuses will vary depending on which one you have been infected with. They even got medical names such as Porphyric Hemophilia, Sanguinare Vampiris, and Noxiphilic Sanguivoria, which are the three most known ones but there are more.

For example vampires of the Noxiphilic Sanguivoria strain (ESO's) which originates from the first vampire Lamae Beolfag, have the plus of not being harmed or weakened by day/sunlight, but their appearance show their nature. Meanwhile vampires of Porphyric Hemophilia can supposedly blend perfectly in to society without any illusions as long as they are kept fed, but are a lot more sensitive to sunlight and if not kept fed will burst into flames in it.

No strain of vampirism is sensitive to garlic. There has only been one vampire that got harmed by it and that was because he had an allergy of it.

Reading the wiki gives a lot of information regarding vampires, despite not being a very long page.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

How are vampires created. Really.

It all started with Molag Bal, the Daedric Prince of Domination and Brutality did a crime most vile to a priestess of Arkay named Lamae which caused her "death". From there on it spread, and from others Bal "gifted" with the disease.

Mortals then usually get infected with these through various means. A vampire can infect them willingly, or not willingly. They can fight or be attacked by a vampire and accidentally end up being infected etc. From there on two out of the three most known strains have an incubation time of three days. The infected is not truly a vampire yet during this time and can be cured from the disease like any other.

As RP goes, well there's no rule really. Your character can already be a vampire and have been for a long time. You can set them up to be infected in a storyline willingly or accidentally etc. My single vampire character became one before ESO is taking place. I even roleplay him as having Porphyric Hemophilia instead of the actual game one.

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Is 'the cure' widely accepted as a valid way to get rid of the curse?

It's a bit up to debate. In other TES games (and also a bit in ESO's quests and such...) curing vampirism that has passed the incubation time is more or less unheard of. It happens but it's more like myths and the person that has usually searched for a way to cure it for a long time and it's then a complicated thing to do.
So, many consider ESO's "just go and throw some coin at that npc" as more of a game mechanic that is needed in an mmo and how vampirism work there, than an accurate lore representation.
It's also more interesting from an RP view to be stuck with it, or go through a very complicated hunt for a chance of a cure than just visiting the Mage's Guild.

I think one of the most interesting reasons to RP a vampire in TES is the bad stuff. One of the biggest downsides for both vampires who became it willingly and unwillingly is the fear of dying, because it's believed by most they're doomed to end up in Molag Bal's Coldharbour when they die. Vampires do not have to end up there, but most likely will.

There's a lot more that could likely be said about vampirism and RP but I've no clue where to start the rest.
I suppose I can mention that Elsweyr gave a very intersting yet small lore morsel about vampirism in khajiit faith. Which is that in their pantheon it's Sanguine, or Sangiin the Blood Cat to them, who is the deity related to vampirism. There's even a khajiit vampire clan named the Hollowfang who worships him in ESO, who have a lot of blood themed powers.

Thee_Cheshire_Cat · March 2022

Since this, disease, has an incubation period, and if caught early, could be cured with a simple 'cure disease potion', would it stand to sound RP reason, if a person had a huge fear of being infected, they would/could drink a potion each night before bed to help ensure they are never turned? Like a nightly tea or something. Plausible and possible?

i was also informed by a friend who has a new vampire character, that the vampire you deal with in game is Lamae Bal. However i assume by the many vampire clans that from an RP standpoint not all vampires running around are from her bloodline, and that the fact you deal with her, (and she tells you what to expect and fear etc) is more just for mechanic than RP? Or perhaps both, i guess, if you wish your character to be part of that bloodline.

tsaescishoeshiner · March 2022

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Since this, disease, has an incubation period, and if caught early, could be cured with a simple 'cure disease potion', would it stand to sound RP reason, if a person had a huge fear of being infected, they would/could drink a potion each night before bed to help ensure they are never turned? Like a nightly tea or something. Plausible and possible?

i was also informed by a friend who has a new vampire character, that the vampire you deal with in game is Lamae Bal. However i assume by the many vampire clans that from an RP standpoint not all vampires running around are from her bloodline, and that the fact you deal with her, (and she tells you what to expect and fear etc) is more just for mechanic than RP? Or perhaps both, i guess, if you wish your character to be part of that bloodline.

In Skyrim, you can cleanse the simple infection just by praying at a shrine of the divines, but full-fledged vampirism is harder. I think it would be safe to treat it similarly in ESO—something that prevented/cured disease like a specialized tincture could work.

The meta- reasons that the vamp intro quest centers on Lamae Bal are that:
1. It shows you that not all vamps are allied with Molag Bal or serving his will, like many of the NPCs you see
2. Explains where your skill development comes from
3. It's cool

I recommend doing the intro quest!! It will answer a lot of your questions, it's pretty short, and it surprised me with how cool it was. I became a vamp for the skills, but the quest itself convinced me it was more than that. I was so excited to be a vamp after that.

The Rivenspire questline will answer more questions, and show you a very unique take on vampires and vampire clans, even within TES.

And of course, the Western Skyrim and The Reach questlines (including their prologues!!) bring up some vampire metaphysics plus more background into ancient, powerful vampire clans.

Thee_Cheshire_Cat · March 2022

Thanks for all the great answers people!

TX12001rwb17_ESO · March 2022

Vevvev wrote: »

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

i am very curious as well, how a Thrall may be played. How much of 'themselves' do they retain? What are key points for one to remember when playing one? (RPly speaking of course). What are their merits and flaws in general?

Thralls in TES lore are either vampires or not, there are no ghouls.

A vampire can seduce a mortal with vampiric seduction then bite them to assume control over their will. This seems to last an unknown amount of time, but it's assumed it'll need refreshing every so often to keep the person under control. Killing the vampire will break the illusion and free the thralls under the vampire's control. They seem to keep some of their personality, but their every waking desire is to serve their master even if it means dying. In fact, they might even be happy to die by their master's hand if they fail.

The second kind of thrall is the blood thrall, and since there are no ghouls.... well... yeah.... Turning mortals into vampires and using vampiric powers to control the childer is a way of enthrallment, but unlike illusionary enthrallment the thrall is no longer mortal and sometimes degrades to nothing more than a feral beast called a blood fiend. It's more used when a vampire needs shock troops than a means of concealment or a supply of blood.

Thank you for chiming in Vev!

i had assumed ESO vampires were more alive than dead after hearing the ability to impregnate others. Guess their swimmers are still very much alive. There is no word on if the offspring would be a vampire or not, so i guess that would be left up to those who want a snowflake or not.

Sounds like, from what you've written, Thralls are, at the very least, shadows of their former selves. To what degree (the first one) i suppose would be between the Sire and the Thrall.

i would assume, that the second form of Thrall you mentioned could be potentially 'cured' just as any vampire could be under the right treatment.

We do know of the Gray Prince who is a half vampire. If you take his game files as established lore he has the full passive power of a max stage vampire with none of the weaknesses. Ultimate snowflake mode..... But yes it's possible, but the lore on it isn't very defined and the implications of the game code is just as hazardous as the implication of the Perfect Scion form having basically no weaknesses.

And yes, they're shadows of their former selves but there is a chance to give them more autonomy. It's just not seen often because TES vampires are like the Dark Ages VtM vampires. They're a bit open and brazen with not many actually trying to hide and blend in.

And I'd assume curing the blood thralls could free them. Good luck holding them down to do it though.

He was not half-vampire, he was an Orc with inherited Vampire traits, you cannot be a Half-Vampire just like you cannot be Half-Zombie or Half-Lich, A Vampire is a type of Undead State, your either a full Vampire or your not a Vampire at all.

As for Lovidicus, his ability to sire offspring is directly stated by himself to be something he thought not possible so is likely down to supernatural means, you say Vampires have heartbeats well their are also conflicting statements suggesting that they do not, it is more likely possible Vampire stages provide different physical functions, a Stage 1 Vampire is almost alive where as a Stage 4 Vampire is a walking corpse with no Heartbeat.

Notice how at stage 3 and 4 you stop healing naturally and become far more resistant to damage?

Thee_Cheshire_Cat · March 2022

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

i am very curious as well, how a Thrall may be played. How much of 'themselves' do they retain? What are key points for one to remember when playing one? (RPly speaking of course). What are their merits and flaws in general?

Thralls in TES lore are either vampires or not, there are no ghouls.

A vampire can seduce a mortal with vampiric seduction then bite them to assume control over their will. This seems to last an unknown amount of time, but it's assumed it'll need refreshing every so often to keep the person under control. Killing the vampire will break the illusion and free the thralls under the vampire's control. They seem to keep some of their personality, but their every waking desire is to serve their master even if it means dying. In fact, they might even be happy to die by their master's hand if they fail.

The second kind of thrall is the blood thrall, and since there are no ghouls.... well... yeah.... Turning mortals into vampires and using vampiric powers to control the childer is a way of enthrallment, but unlike illusionary enthrallment the thrall is no longer mortal and sometimes degrades to nothing more than a feral beast called a blood fiend. It's more used when a vampire needs shock troops than a means of concealment or a supply of blood.

Thank you for chiming in Vev!

i had assumed ESO vampires were more alive than dead after hearing the ability to impregnate others. Guess their swimmers are still very much alive. There is no word on if the offspring would be a vampire or not, so i guess that would be left up to those who want a snowflake or not.

Sounds like, from what you've written, Thralls are, at the very least, shadows of their former selves. To what degree (the first one) i suppose would be between the Sire and the Thrall.

i would assume, that the second form of Thrall you mentioned could be potentially 'cured' just as any vampire could be under the right treatment.

We do know of the Gray Prince who is a half vampire. If you take his game files as established lore he has the full passive power of a max stage vampire with none of the weaknesses. Ultimate snowflake mode..... But yes it's possible, but the lore on it isn't very defined and the implications of the game code is just as hazardous as the implication of the Perfect Scion form having basically no weaknesses.

And yes, they're shadows of their former selves but there is a chance to give them more autonomy. It's just not seen often because TES vampires are like the Dark Ages VtM vampires. They're a bit open and brazen with not many actually trying to hide and blend in.

And I'd assume curing the blood thralls could free them. Good luck holding them down to do it though.

He was not half-vampire, he was an Orc with inherited Vampire traits, you cannot be a Half-Vampire just like you cannot be Half-Zombie or Half-Lich, A Vampire is a type of Undead State, your either a full Vampire or your not a Vampire at all.

As for Lovidicus, his ability to sire offspring is directly stated by himself to be something he thought not possible so is likely down to supernatural means, you say Vampires have heartbeats well their are also conflicting statements suggesting that they do not, it is more likely possible Vampire stages provide different physical functions, a Stage 1 Vampire is almost alive where as a Stage 4 Vampire is a walking corpse with no Heartbeat.

Notice how at stage 3 and 4 you stop healing naturally and become far more resistant to damage?

Very insightful! My friend who plays a vampire mentioned not being able to heal.

So a child born with a vampire father (or mother) to a human would either be born with the disease or not. No half way.

Following your logic, then, TX, a vampire of stage 3, siring offspring would be rare, and a 4, would likely not be able to sire offspring at all, correct?

Urzigurumash · March 2022

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

The meta- reasons that the vamp intro quest centers on Lamae Bal are that:
1. It shows you that not all vamps are allied with Molag Bal or serving his will, like many of the NPCs you see
2. Explains where your skill development comes from
3. It's cool
.

To expand on this, being a Scion of Lamae rather than a Scion of Molag Bal in this game also permits a player character to use Dawnbreaker or be a Templar and still be a Vampire, since Meridia and Stendarr are allied with Lamae in their opposition to Our Gracious Lord Mogal Bal. Right?

Vevvev · March 2022

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Since this, disease, has an incubation period, and if caught early, could be cured with a simple 'cure disease potion', would it stand to sound RP reason, if a person had a huge fear of being infected, they would/could drink a potion each night before bed to help ensure they are never turned? Like a nightly tea or something. Plausible and possible?

Yes, and it was something my characters did in all the games, especially in RP in ESO till the day she got it in the head she actually wanted to become one after being enthralled for a time. Was a long and painful story, but it had a happy ending and she's still alive... somehow. Not sure how all the dice I rolled didn't result in character death during some of the insane guild events.

SnazzleFraggle · March 2022

SnazzleFraggle wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Notice how at stage 3 and 4 you stop healing naturally and become far more resistant to damage?

That's one think that urks me a bit about vampires in ESO, there seems to be some sort of weird disagreement of sorts between vampires having regeneration or not. You see, in two instances in ESO, we have vampires regenerating, one in a dungeon(The one assisting you there), and another I can't remember at the moment. In fact, they both were at least stage 2 or 3, which sorta is why it makes me think vampires in general can heal from their wounds better than mere mortals. Yet..in game our health recovery is slower the higher our stage is. Is there something I'm missing in lore that says vampires heal worse than mortals? Because all I've got to go on is these two instances of vampires LITERALLY regenerating in-game.(Not on screen, but they THEMSELVES mention it.)

There's also the thing about abilities costing more as a vamp...but that's a discussion for another time.(IMHO that debuff needs to be reworked or removed. ><)

Vevvev · April 2022

SnazzleFraggle wrote: »

SnazzleFraggle wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Notice how at stage 3 and 4 you stop healing naturally and become far more resistant to damage?

That's one think that urks me a bit about vampires in ESO, there seems to be some sort of weird disagreement of sorts between vampires having regeneration or not. You see, in two instances in ESO, we have vampires regenerating, one in a dungeon(The one assisting you there), and another I can't remember at the moment. In fact, they both were at least stage 2 or 3, which sorta is why it makes me think vampires in general can heal from their wounds better than mere mortals. Yet..in game our health recovery is slower the higher our stage is. Is there something I'm missing in lore that says vampires heal worse than mortals? Because all I've got to go on is these two instances of vampires LITERALLY regenerating in-game.(Not on screen, but they THEMSELVES mention it.)

There's also the thing about abilities costing more as a vamp...but that's a discussion for another time.(IMHO that debuff needs to be reworked or removed. ><)

Lack of a sunlight weakness due to ESO being an MMO where you have no ability to go to bed during the day and wake up at night without serious amounts of wasted IRL time. So they opted for an HP regeneration weakness similar to how Skyrim had it where in sunlight you stopped regenerating, however unlike skyrim they made it 100% always active.

This made sense though because it was originally dependent on starving. If you starved you healed less, but if you drank blood you healed more, and feeding actually healed you based on a % of your max health a second. The rework quite literally made ESO's vampire backwards in more way than one.

Molydeus · April 2022

Vevvev wrote: »

SnazzleFraggle wrote: »

SnazzleFraggle wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Notice how at stage 3 and 4 you stop healing naturally and become far more resistant to damage?

That's one think that urks me a bit about vampires in ESO, there seems to be some sort of weird disagreement of sorts between vampires having regeneration or not. You see, in two instances in ESO, we have vampires regenerating, one in a dungeon(The one assisting you there), and another I can't remember at the moment. In fact, they both were at least stage 2 or 3, which sorta is why it makes me think vampires in general can heal from their wounds better than mere mortals. Yet..in game our health recovery is slower the higher our stage is. Is there something I'm missing in lore that says vampires heal worse than mortals? Because all I've got to go on is these two instances of vampires LITERALLY regenerating in-game.(Not on screen, but they THEMSELVES mention it.)

There's also the thing about abilities costing more as a vamp...but that's a discussion for another time.(IMHO that debuff needs to be reworked or removed. ><)

Lack of a sunlight weakness due to ESO being an MMO where you have no ability to go to bed during the day and wake up at night without serious amounts of wasted IRL time. So they opted for an HP regeneration weakness similar to how Skyrim had it where in sunlight you stopped regenerating, however unlike skyrim they made it 100% always active.

This made sense though because it was originally dependent on starving. If you starved you healed less, but if you drank blood you healed more, and feeding actually healed you based on a % of your max health a second. The rework quite literally made ESO's vampire backwards in more way than one.

What was the stated reason behind the changes done to vampirism? Was there some issue with the original design?

tsaescishoeshiner · April 2022

Molydeus wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

SnazzleFraggle wrote: »

SnazzleFraggle wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Notice how at stage 3 and 4 you stop healing naturally and become far more resistant to damage?

That's one think that urks me a bit about vampires in ESO, there seems to be some sort of weird disagreement of sorts between vampires having regeneration or not. You see, in two instances in ESO, we have vampires regenerating, one in a dungeon(The one assisting you there), and another I can't remember at the moment. In fact, they both were at least stage 2 or 3, which sorta is why it makes me think vampires in general can heal from their wounds better than mere mortals. Yet..in game our health recovery is slower the higher our stage is. Is there something I'm missing in lore that says vampires heal worse than mortals? Because all I've got to go on is these two instances of vampires LITERALLY regenerating in-game.(Not on screen, but they THEMSELVES mention it.)

There's also the thing about abilities costing more as a vamp...but that's a discussion for another time.(IMHO that debuff needs to be reworked or removed. ><)

Lack of a sunlight weakness due to ESO being an MMO where you have no ability to go to bed during the day and wake up at night without serious amounts of wasted IRL time. So they opted for an HP regeneration weakness similar to how Skyrim had it where in sunlight you stopped regenerating, however unlike skyrim they made it 100% always active.

This made sense though because it was originally dependent on starving. If you starved you healed less, but if you drank blood you healed more, and feeding actually healed you based on a % of your max health a second. The rework quite literally made ESO's vampire backwards in more way than one.

What was the stated reason behind the changes done to vampirism? Was there some issue with the original design?

Here's the full article about the rework from 2020: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/58225

If I remember right, vamps were reworked for the Dark Heart of Skyrim year. The previous design was meta for PvE DPS only for the sustain passives (skill cost reduction). The rework focused on making it more of a playstyle that you have to commit to, like being a werewolf. I think the feeding/stage progression reversal was meant to make increasing your power an active choice, rather than a passive one. To me, it fits rather well with the vampires in ESO who feed for power, although player vampires have a slightly different background.

Here's a link to the part of the Greymoor patch notes about the vampire update, and the summary of the rework down below: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6779093/#Comment_6779093

Vampire Updates
Vampires have received significant changes this update, with a focus on improving the entire experience as a Vampire. Revisions to parts of the Vampire quest, Justice System ramifications, and even improved Feeding visuals are just a few examples of these changes. The Vampire Skill Line has also been updated, adding 3 brand new Active Abilities while also revising the previous Active, Passive, and Ultimate skills that existed before. But be wary – these newfound powers come with even greater drawbacks. It is up to you to decide if the gift of Vampirism is worth the price…

The changes were in response to longtime player feedback and complaints, but the new mechanics lead to OTHER feedback and complaints. I personally prefer the current version and find it very cool and thematic. But of course, it's not perfect.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 2022

Vevvev wrote: »

SnazzleFraggle wrote: »

SnazzleFraggle wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Notice how at stage 3 and 4 you stop healing naturally and become far more resistant to damage?

That's one think that urks me a bit about vampires in ESO, there seems to be some sort of weird disagreement of sorts between vampires having regeneration or not. You see, in two instances in ESO, we have vampires regenerating, one in a dungeon(The one assisting you there), and another I can't remember at the moment. In fact, they both were at least stage 2 or 3, which sorta is why it makes me think vampires in general can heal from their wounds better than mere mortals. Yet..in game our health recovery is slower the higher our stage is. Is there something I'm missing in lore that says vampires heal worse than mortals? Because all I've got to go on is these two instances of vampires LITERALLY regenerating in-game.(Not on screen, but they THEMSELVES mention it.)

There's also the thing about abilities costing more as a vamp...but that's a discussion for another time.(IMHO that debuff needs to be reworked or removed. ><)

Lack of a sunlight weakness due to ESO being an MMO where you have no ability to go to bed during the day and wake up at night without serious amounts of wasted IRL time. So they opted for an HP regeneration weakness similar to how Skyrim had it where in sunlight you stopped regenerating, however unlike skyrim they made it 100% always active.

This made sense though because it was originally dependent on starving. If you starved you healed less, but if you drank blood you healed more, and feeding actually healed you based on a % of your max health a second. The rework quite literally made ESO's vampire backwards in more way than one.

You know simply making the health regeneration nerf only apply in Sunlight would be an outright buff to Vampires.

Thee_Cheshire_Cat · April 2022

Never going to make everyone happy, no matter what is done, unfortunately.

Ratzkifal · April 2022

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Never going to make everyone happy, no matter what is done, unfortunately.

That sums it up pretty well. Even in Skyrim there were vampire mods that reversed how feeding works but those mods also usually gave an option to leave feeding as is. ESO is the first game to reverse how feeding works in the Elder Scrolls, making it increase your vampiric power and turn you more monsterous as opposed to it turning you more human.
To me this was always a key difference in the way vampirism was handled compared to other franchises so I think having feeding weaken your vampiric powers is the better system.
Thankfully ZOS eventually acknowledged that not everyone likes it their way and they basically gave an explanation on how and why ESO vampirism is different. Lamae apparently alchemically changed her bloodline, which makes some sense considering Vaermina (the one you get the cure in Morrowind from) is associated with alchemy. So there must be some connection there.

Also when I read the High Isle patch notes I saw a quality of life change for vampires. Now you automatically heal to full health when feeding. So no more being constantly low health on stage 4! Rejoice!

Browiseth · May 2022

eso's vampires are actually pretty different to vampires in the single player TES games. there's a few things that are implicit and implied about vampires in those games:

- resistant to non-enchanted, "normal" weapons (basically means low tier like iron or steel). the implication from this is that a vampire is so far above, or far removed from mortal objects that it takes more than a simple sword to actually harm them

- far more agile and physically strong compared to a mortal

- able to "seduce" mortals. this is pretty vague, but generally it means that 1) a vampire may be more charismatic and able to win other people over to their side more easily, and 2) they have the uncanny ability to hide their vampirism from mortals and appear themselves as a mortal if needed in order to blend in. this ability to manipulate mortals is further reinforced by how vampires tend to get bonuses to their illusion skill, a school of magic which revolves around messing with people's minds or, in skyrim also includes invisibility spells

- obviously, able to gain power from feeding on mortal life energies, generally in the form of blood. as a vampire becomes more and more "thirsty", a primal, violent urge seems to build up more and more in them. this is represented in-game as a vampire player character becoming more powerful as they grow thirstier, but their weaknesses (more on that later) also becoming more pronounced. the idea to me has always been that a stage 1 vampire has fed on enough mortal blood that they are able to pretend to be a mortal themselves, but after a few days their true self as a violent monster comes out

- obviously, the weakness to sunlight. generally, this weakness grows worse as the vampire gets thirstier (a stage 1 vampire in TES IV: oblivion takes no sunlight damage, while a stage 4 vampire loses health quite rapidly in the sun)

there's more but you get the idea. the interesting thing is that vampires in ESO have pretty much inherited all of the benefits of being a vampire but very few of the drawbacks (no sunlight weakness, for example). this can be because of and i believe has already been explained away by the fact that vampires in ESO are of the bloodline of lamae bal herself, the very first vampire, implying that later bloodlines of vampires are "diluted" in some way and thus weaker. another major difference is that vampires in ESO have reverse progression now: the more a vampire feeds, the more "corrupted" or more of a violent monster they turn into.

so, essentially, to condense the for's and against's of being a vampire:

for:
- in general, a vampire is physically stronger than a mortal
- vampires are naturally more adept at manipulating mortals, either through conversation and charisma or through sneaking around them
- going by the "Undeath" passive, vampires are able to take more damage before dying on account of the fact they're...already dead. it could be a pain resistance? dunno tbh

against:
- the major one i can think of is that vampires struggle to be able to hide their vampirism from mortals in this game at stage 4, so depending on how you're playing your character, you may want to characterise them accordingly

as for your question about a cure...

even though it's very easy to cure vampirism/lycanthropy in ESO, the implication to me has always been that it's a difficult process, and the easy way out is just there for convenience sake since ESO is a pretty different game to a single player TES. curing vampirism in morrowind, oblivion and skyrim is a permanent (never able to become a vampire again) and long process

TX12001rwb17_ESO · May 2022

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Thee_Cheshire_Cat wrote: »

Never going to make everyone happy, no matter what is done, unfortunately.

ESO is the first game to reverse how feeding works in the Elder Scrolls, making it increase your vampiric power and turn you more monsterous as opposed to it turning you more human.

I take you have never played Daggerfall then.