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Plaguebreak & Support Purge
TexGod
✭✭✭
Plaguebreak since it came out has been a detriment to Cyrodiil. The set is widely used by ballgroups and pugs across Cyrodiil due to its devastating potential. It has also made one of the main PVP support abilities, Purge, completely useless. A once important ability to combat endless siege in keep breeches has become nothing more than a way to kill your own faction.
It was introduced as a tool to combat the endless purge spam from Cyrodiil ballgroups, but has become the opposite. While I do agree this can be a great tool to compete with ballgroups, it just isn't as impactul to them as some would think. The groups benefit from this set and other stacking dots due to the Pain's Refuge CP tree. This CP gives damage mitigation per negative affect active at the time. The set is also very easily applied thus making it a great tool for pug farming. The person with Plaguebreak doesn't even have to get killing blows like someone with Vicious Death would. They just have to participate, and if the person the set was applied to dies, everyone around them would feel the effect.
Cyrodiil lag has become increasingly worse since this set came out as well. While the set itself doesn't have a direct impact on the server's performance, it completely negates the support purge; A tool used to keep pugs alive when pushing through breeches in a keep that are covered with heavy siege. If you want to talk about lag you should discuss keep fights that rage on for 45 minutes due to people not wanting to push in keeps because they know they will be instantly vaporized by coldfire siege. Abilities like purge help with this.
Overall sets like Plaguebreak and Dark Convergence (a topic for another post) have completely changed Cyrodiil in a negative way. Plaguebreak has made support builds nearly useless. This sets effect on Cyrodiil has made keep fights last two to three times as long as they normally would and has enabled ballgroups to last significantly longer due to the Pain's Refuge CP tree that was introduced with Plague.
It would be interesting to see a meta shift in Cyrodiil as I am willing to bet a fair chunk of the game is currently running this set, with the other fair chunk running dark convergence
It was introduced as a tool to combat the endless purge spam from Cyrodiil ballgroups, but has become the opposite. While I do agree this can be a great tool to compete with ballgroups, it just isn't as impactul to them as some would think. The groups benefit from this set and other stacking dots due to the Pain's Refuge CP tree. This CP gives damage mitigation per negative affect active at the time. The set is also very easily applied thus making it a great tool for pug farming. The person with Plaguebreak doesn't even have to get killing blows like someone with Vicious Death would. They just have to participate, and if the person the set was applied to dies, everyone around them would feel the effect.
Cyrodiil lag has become increasingly worse since this set came out as well. While the set itself doesn't have a direct impact on the server's performance, it completely negates the support purge; A tool used to keep pugs alive when pushing through breeches in a keep that are covered with heavy siege. If you want to talk about lag you should discuss keep fights that rage on for 45 minutes due to people not wanting to push in keeps because they know they will be instantly vaporized by coldfire siege. Abilities like purge help with this.
Overall sets like Plaguebreak and Dark Convergence (a topic for another post) have completely changed Cyrodiil in a negative way. Plaguebreak has made support builds nearly useless. This sets effect on Cyrodiil has made keep fights last two to three times as long as they normally would and has enabled ballgroups to last significantly longer due to the Pain's Refuge CP tree that was introduced with Plague.
It would be interesting to see a meta shift in Cyrodiil as I am willing to bet a fair chunk of the game is currently running this set, with the other fair chunk running dark convergence
4
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divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭important ability to combat endless siege in keep breeches has become nothing more than a way to kill your own faction.
Siege dots should never be purgeable in the first place.
I can't stand noCP cyro exactly because this is a thing.
45m sieges when defence actually comes in a good numbers? What's wrong with that?
That's exactly the point of siege walls and defensive sieges - to win time and let everyone who wills to fight enter the fight, having defender advantage.3 -
deleted221205-002626✭✭✭✭✭I agree sorta with PB in that it has made purge a highly risky button to press but still useable as a self purge if you pull away from crowds 1st.
DCON tho is such a fun ability in both pvp and pve and is easily avoided even with just a quick block that its hardly a game breaker... The self activating synergy graverobber or whatever is the bigger issue combined with it. IMO there shouldn't be a self activating synergy or this is what happens.
DCON is just fun and I'd likly use it even if it did 0dmgEdited by deleted221205-002626 on May 3, 2022 9:28AM0 -
Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭We need bombing set options that give AOE mag + stam negate to move on from plaguebreak. Prevent groups from abusing it by introducing a group-level cooldown (same should apply for dark convergence and other flavors of cheese tbh). Tired of all the snow treader earthgore chokethorn healblobs crutching on the lag they create just to kill 1 perma-cc'd pug every 3 ult dumps. Dead groups = lag solved.1
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Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PB should just be a ground effect which is removed upon stepping out of it.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)1 -
neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've probably posted this rant a dozen times now but PB is just such an awful set. It does basically nothing to hurt ball groups since our healing and Pain's Refuge can compensate for lack of purges. On the other hand it's a more cost effective VD for us to kill Pugs with. I'm also extremely annoyed that it makes certain class skills and sets obsolete. I'm sad whenever I play my templar healer and warden because I can no longer use ritual and netch.
The solution to the purge spam was to ramp up the cost of purge like streak, not this disaster.Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »PB should just be a ground effect which is removed upon stepping out of it.
This is a really good suggestion.
Edited by neferpitou73 on May 3, 2022 1:51PM5 -
Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭PB bombing is one of the few things that works reliably against the average ball group that's all in on heals and hp. With the entire group plagued, all you need to do is tab target the <40k hp weak link and bomb over them to wipe the group. The other huge thing that is often overlooked is just how much better stam aoe skills are against balls, due to the ability to completely ignore the sea of negates they throw out. It is the only reason we even run a stam bomber in our duo.
If more pugs ran plaguebreak and negates, I think most ball groups would straight up quit or change to a different playstyle. The tools to kill groups are already there, they just aren't used effectively enough or get counterplayed by lag.4 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »PB bombing is one of the few things that works reliably against the average ball group that's all in on heals and hp. With the entire group plagued, all you need to do is tab target the <40k hp weak link and bomb over them to wipe the group. The other huge thing that is often overlooked is just how much better stam aoe skills are against balls, due to the ability to completely ignore the sea of negates they throw out. It is the only reason we even run a stam bomber in our duo.
If more pugs ran plaguebreak and negates, I think most ball groups would straight up quit or change to a different playstyle. The tools to kill groups are already there, they just aren't used effectively enough or get counterplayed by lag.
I think they need to shrink its range. Reduce it by 2m and it would be a better set overall.0 -
TexGod✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »PB bombing is one of the few things that works reliably against the average ball group that's all in on heals and hp. With the entire group plagued, all you need to do is tab target the <40k hp weak link and bomb over them to wipe the group. The other huge thing that is often overlooked is just how much better stam aoe skills are against balls, due to the ability to completely ignore the sea of negates they throw out. It is the only reason we even run a stam bomber in our duo.
If more pugs ran plaguebreak and negates, I think most ball groups would straight up quit or change to a different playstyle. The tools to kill groups are already there, they just aren't used effectively enough or get counterplayed by lag.
I have found in our experience plaguebreak isn't an issue even when someone in our raid dies and procs it on others. It is easily outhealed and doesn't pose much of a threat. With the inherent 20% damage mitigation from the CP due to lack of purge, it isn't often this set hits for more than 6-8k. If you like plague you should try vicious death! It's a set that isn't directly harmful to other abilities in Cyrodiil, hits twice as hard and can crit 0 -
TexGod✭✭✭important ability to combat endless siege in keep breeches has become nothing more than a way to kill your own faction.
Siege dots should never be purgeable in the first place.
I can't stand noCP cyro exactly because this is a thing.
45m sieges when defence actually comes in a good numbers? What's wrong with that?
That's exactly the point of siege walls and defensive sieges - to win time and let everyone who wills to fight enter the fight, having defender advantage.
While I agree that a 45m sieges can be fun, that isn't the main issue I stated but a side effect of it. The issue for me is that the support purge has been made almost completely useless thus creating large, laggy fights that never seem to end on the map. Obviously, there are multiple factors that contribute to prolonging these fights, this is just one.1 -
TexGod✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »PB should just be a ground effect which is removed upon stepping out of it.
Or even just changing it so it doesn't proc off purge. If they didn't want to completely gut the set I could see them making it similar to something like Thurvkun visually. Making it so if you stand in it and purge it would go off but unfortunately I could still see half of Cyrodiil wearing this set and the AOE being everywhere.0 -
Wonderful analysis on the plaguebreak set and the impact it has in cyrodiil. I can’t but agree with everything you said. An excellent post this man should be balancing the game.1
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Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »PB bombing is one of the few things that works reliably against the average ball group that's all in on heals and hp. With the entire group plagued, all you need to do is tab target the <40k hp weak link and bomb over them to wipe the group. The other huge thing that is often overlooked is just how much better stam aoe skills are against balls, due to the ability to completely ignore the sea of negates they throw out. It is the only reason we even run a stam bomber in our duo.
If more pugs ran plaguebreak and negates, I think most ball groups would straight up quit or change to a different playstyle. The tools to kill groups are already there, they just aren't used effectively enough or get counterplayed by lag.
I have found in our experience plaguebreak isn't an issue even when someone in our raid dies and procs it on others. It is easily outhealed and doesn't pose much of a threat. With the inherent 20% damage mitigation from the CP due to lack of purge, it isn't often this set hits for more than 6-8k. If you like plague you should try vicious death! It's a set that isn't directly harmful to other abilities in Cyrodiil, hits twice as hard and can crit
Haha we use all the cheese we can possibly carry on 2 characters so that includes VD on top of PB. Also you run a legit ball with synergy blockers and individually skilled players so that's pretty much bombproof. Most groups don't.0 -
Peacatcher✭✭✭important ability to combat endless siege in keep breeches has become nothing more than a way to kill your own faction.
Siege dots should never be purgeable in the first place.
I can't stand noCP cyro exactly because this is a thing.
45m sieges when defence actually comes in a good numbers? What's wrong with that?
That's exactly the point of siege walls and defensive sieges - to win time and let everyone who wills to fight enter the fight, having defender advantage.
I'd also love siege dots not to be dodgeable or blockable. Not sure why that was ever made a thing.Ps4 EU0 -
TexGod✭✭✭Peacatcher wrote: »important ability to combat endless siege in keep breeches has become nothing more than a way to kill your own faction.
Siege dots should never be purgeable in the first place.
I can't stand noCP cyro exactly because this is a thing.
45m sieges when defence actually comes in a good numbers? What's wrong with that?
That's exactly the point of siege walls and defensive sieges - to win time and let everyone who wills to fight enter the fight, having defender advantage.
I'd also love siege dots not to be dodgeable or blockable. Not sure why that was ever made a thing.
I believe it was made a thing because sieging in itself is a relatively low APM, low skill action. It's as simple as aiming and firing. For this reason, it cannot be something that has no counterplay which is part of the reason I'm so confused as to why they made purge as useless as it is. If siege was unblockable and undodgeable I don't see any reason why everyone in Cyrodiil wouldn't be sieging as it would almost certainly be the strongest form of gameplay.1 -
TexGod✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »PB bombing is one of the few things that works reliably against the average ball group that's all in on heals and hp. With the entire group plagued, all you need to do is tab target the <40k hp weak link and bomb over them to wipe the group. The other huge thing that is often overlooked is just how much better stam aoe skills are against balls, due to the ability to completely ignore the sea of negates they throw out. It is the only reason we even run a stam bomber in our duo.
If more pugs ran plaguebreak and negates, I think most ball groups would straight up quit or change to a different playstyle. The tools to kill groups are already there, they just aren't used effectively enough or get counterplayed by lag.
I have found in our experience plaguebreak isn't an issue even when someone in our raid dies and procs it on others. It is easily outhealed and doesn't pose much of a threat. With the inherent 20% damage mitigation from the CP due to lack of purge, it isn't often this set hits for more than 6-8k. If you like plague you should try vicious death! It's a set that isn't directly harmful to other abilities in Cyrodiil, hits twice as hard and can crit
Haha we use all the cheese we can possibly carry on 2 characters so that includes VD on top of PB. Also you run a legit ball with synergy blockers and individually skilled players so that's pretty much bombproof. Most groups don't.
I do agree with you. There needs to be mechanics for people to deal with ballgroups, I just don't think plague is it. Purge is completely useless now due to plague. And on the opposite side, plague is an amazing tool to deal with pugs. It makes gameplay very boring and a lot easier than it was before.2 -
Cuddlypuff✭✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »PB bombing is one of the few things that works reliably against the average ball group that's all in on heals and hp. With the entire group plagued, all you need to do is tab target the <40k hp weak link and bomb over them to wipe the group. The other huge thing that is often overlooked is just how much better stam aoe skills are against balls, due to the ability to completely ignore the sea of negates they throw out. It is the only reason we even run a stam bomber in our duo.
If more pugs ran plaguebreak and negates, I think most ball groups would straight up quit or change to a different playstyle. The tools to kill groups are already there, they just aren't used effectively enough or get counterplayed by lag.
I have found in our experience plaguebreak isn't an issue even when someone in our raid dies and procs it on others. It is easily outhealed and doesn't pose much of a threat. With the inherent 20% damage mitigation from the CP due to lack of purge, it isn't often this set hits for more than 6-8k. If you like plague you should try vicious death! It's a set that isn't directly harmful to other abilities in Cyrodiil, hits twice as hard and can crit
Haha we use all the cheese we can possibly carry on 2 characters so that includes VD on top of PB. Also you run a legit ball with synergy blockers and individually skilled players so that's pretty much bombproof. Most groups don't.
I do agree with you. There needs to be mechanics for people to deal with ballgroups, I just don't think plague is it. Purge is completely useless now due to plague. And on the opposite side, plague is an amazing tool to deal with pugs. It makes gameplay very boring and a lot easier than it was before.
I mentioned above the need for more accessible negates. Also need it to negate stam abilities with all the stamden and echoing vigor comps. Not everybody can or wants to run support sorcs but there's skilled and optimized groups out there that are impossible to kill without a coordinated negate bomb. Something like a universal negate in a generic skill tree, or a set that has some small aoe negate could change the meta overnight.0 -
TexGod✭✭✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »PB bombing is one of the few things that works reliably against the average ball group that's all in on heals and hp. With the entire group plagued, all you need to do is tab target the <40k hp weak link and bomb over them to wipe the group. The other huge thing that is often overlooked is just how much better stam aoe skills are against balls, due to the ability to completely ignore the sea of negates they throw out. It is the only reason we even run a stam bomber in our duo.
If more pugs ran plaguebreak and negates, I think most ball groups would straight up quit or change to a different playstyle. The tools to kill groups are already there, they just aren't used effectively enough or get counterplayed by lag.
I have found in our experience plaguebreak isn't an issue even when someone in our raid dies and procs it on others. It is easily outhealed and doesn't pose much of a threat. With the inherent 20% damage mitigation from the CP due to lack of purge, it isn't often this set hits for more than 6-8k. If you like plague you should try vicious death! It's a set that isn't directly harmful to other abilities in Cyrodiil, hits twice as hard and can crit
Haha we use all the cheese we can possibly carry on 2 characters so that includes VD on top of PB. Also you run a legit ball with synergy blockers and individually skilled players so that's pretty much bombproof. Most groups don't.
I do agree with you. There needs to be mechanics for people to deal with ballgroups, I just don't think plague is it. Purge is completely useless now due to plague. And on the opposite side, plague is an amazing tool to deal with pugs. It makes gameplay very boring and a lot easier than it was before.
I mentioned above the need for more accessible negates. Also need it to negate stam abilities with all the stamden and echoing vigor comps. Not everybody can or wants to run support sorcs but there's skilled and optimized groups out there that are impossible to kill without a coordinated negate bomb. Something like a universal negate in a generic skill tree, or a set that has some small aoe negate could change the meta overnight.
Well a huge thing I mentioned in another post is how negate is currently uncounterable. Even if a pug group wanted to bomb an organized raid they wouldn't be able to. All the raid would have to do is negate in a spot and every pug would be locked out of doing damage regardless of if they have a counter negate or not. Sad how long this bug has been in the game unfixed.1 -
neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »Cuddlypuff wrote: »PB bombing is one of the few things that works reliably against the average ball group that's all in on heals and hp. With the entire group plagued, all you need to do is tab target the <40k hp weak link and bomb over them to wipe the group. The other huge thing that is often overlooked is just how much better stam aoe skills are against balls, due to the ability to completely ignore the sea of negates they throw out. It is the only reason we even run a stam bomber in our duo.
If more pugs ran plaguebreak and negates, I think most ball groups would straight up quit or change to a different playstyle. The tools to kill groups are already there, they just aren't used effectively enough or get counterplayed by lag.
I have found in our experience plaguebreak isn't an issue even when someone in our raid dies and procs it on others. It is easily outhealed and doesn't pose much of a threat. With the inherent 20% damage mitigation from the CP due to lack of purge, it isn't often this set hits for more than 6-8k. If you like plague you should try vicious death! It's a set that isn't directly harmful to other abilities in Cyrodiil, hits twice as hard and can crit
Haha we use all the cheese we can possibly carry on 2 characters so that includes VD on top of PB. Also you run a legit ball with synergy blockers and individually skilled players so that's pretty much bombproof. Most groups don't.
I do agree with you. There needs to be mechanics for people to deal with ballgroups, I just don't think plague is it. Purge is completely useless now due to plague. And on the opposite side, plague is an amazing tool to deal with pugs. It makes gameplay very boring and a lot easier than it was before.
I mentioned above the need for more accessible negates. Also need it to negate stam abilities with all the stamden and echoing vigor comps. Not everybody can or wants to run support sorcs but there's skilled and optimized groups out there that are impossible to kill without a coordinated negate bomb. Something like a universal negate in a generic skill tree, or a set that has some small aoe negate could change the meta overnight.
Well a huge thing I mentioned in another post is how negate is currently uncounterable. Even if a pug group wanted to bomb an organized raid they wouldn't be able to. All the raid would have to do is negate in a spot and every pug would be locked out of doing damage regardless of if they have a counter negate or not. Sad how long this bug has been in the game unfixed.
Try using the damage morph of negate. For some reason the bug only affects the healing morph1 -
Ezorus✭✭✭I've stopped using it this patch and similarly I don't think I've die to its explosion once.. its just not as strong or healing is too stong0 -
ResidentContrarian✭✭✭✭✭I still maintain that ramping cost on purge was the actual fix for purge spam, not a set. The set now just makes some builds on DK or situations impossible to overcome, which moves it to OP territory considering there is zero counter in those situations.2
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divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Peacatcher wrote: »important ability to combat endless siege in keep breeches has become nothing more than a way to kill your own faction.
Siege dots should never be purgeable in the first place.
I can't stand noCP cyro exactly because this is a thing.
45m sieges when defence actually comes in a good numbers? What's wrong with that?
That's exactly the point of siege walls and defensive sieges - to win time and let everyone who wills to fight enter the fight, having defender advantage.
I'd also love siege dots not to be dodgeable or blockable. Not sure why that was ever made a thing.
I believe it was made a thing because sieging in itself is a relatively low APM, low skill action.
And spamming purge standing at the door is top tier PvP, very hard to do.0 -
neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭ResidentContrarian wrote: »I still maintain that ramping cost on purge was the actual fix for purge spam, not a set. The set now just makes some builds on DK or situations impossible to overcome, which moves it to OP territory considering there is zero counter in those situations.
That was the solution.1 -
rbfrgsp✭✭✭✭✭neferpitou73 wrote: »I've probably posted this rant a dozen times now but PB is just such an awful set. It does basically nothing to hurt ball groups since our healing and Pain's Refuge can compensate for lack of purges. On the other hand it's a more cost effective VD for us to kill Pugs with. I'm also extremely annoyed that it makes certain class skills and sets obsolete. I'm sad whenever I play my templar healer and warden because I can no longer use ritual and netch.
As a solo player running Plaguebreak and who likes to shoot a bow at ball groups, I'll say these things:
• the amount of times PB has appeared on my death recap while fighting balls I can count on one hand.
• I am usually targeted and tried to be run down by balls within a few seconds of liberally peppering PB into them.
Now, call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but ballgroup players posting "please remove pb from this game because it just makes us too powerful!" sounds a little disingenuous to me.5 -
Vetixio✭✭✭✭I think this set has a place but it needs to be toned down to not affect NPCs, not trigger on death or not be so easy to apply simply by light attacking as at the moment it is an easier to activate and more powerful Vicious Death. Also the idea that you can kill your own team by using Warden’s Netch or the Curse Eater or other sets that are out of someone’s control is a little bit dumb lolPìerre - Breton Vampire Templar, Grand Overlord. Erádàn - Bosmer Templar, Warlord. Vyríc - Imperial Vampire Necromancer, Centurion. Sybìl - Breton Sorcerer, Centurion. Erìch - Nord Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Njàll - Nord Templar, Lieutenant. Elánnà - Bosmer Warden, Veteran. Laquì - Redguard Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Noveni Dres - Dunmer Sorcerer, Lieutenant. Marìnus - Imperial Warden, Veteran. Arvyn Indoril - Dunmer Templar, Sergeant. Rósalyn - Breton Sorcerer, Corporal. Emelîn - Bosmer Dragonknight, Corporal. Astaroth Indoril - Dunmer Sorcerer.0 -
Ipsius✭✭✭✭neferpitou73 wrote: »
... The solution to the purge spam was to ramp up the cost of purge like streak, not this disaster.
Now this is the first solution I've seen I can completely agree with! Solos can wait out the cool down but a ball group will have to choose: spread out, risk plaguebreak, or let their purgers/healers run out of Magicka.0